Will Canada Criminalize the Bible? (Bill C-9 Talk) - Briefcase & The Barn - Ep 74

December 17, 2025

Kyle: [00:00:00] Hey guys, uh, Kyle here Before we get started, uh, Matt and, uh, Gary are almost here. Um, I want to ask [00:00:10] for your guys' help with something. So I really want to do a live event and, uh. Of, uh, the briefcase in the barn, um, one of these episodes live. [00:00:20] And so I've been talking to Gary and uh, Matt about that, but, uh, they're not as skiing about it as I am, and so, um, uh, I want to get them, [00:00:30] uh, excited about doing this and, uh, committing, uh, to it.

Kyle: Um, and so if you guys could help me in, uh, encouraging them. Um, so if you know Matt or, [00:00:40] um. Uh, Gary personally is to, uh, shoot him a text. Um, right now if you could like, pause, even pause, uh, this recording right now and just send him a text and say, Hey, you should do the [00:00:50] live event. Um, or, uh, if you run into them, uh, this week, uh, if you know them, um, encourage 'em to do the live event, uh, that'd be super cool.

Kyle: So the date I have set is [00:01:00] February 21st. Kind of what I'm thinking is that, um, it would be a half hour of socializing first. Um, we'll have like a bunch of, whole bunch of good food and appies. Um, then it will [00:01:10] be, uh, uh, this episode basically briefcase our episode, um, for an hour, maybe a little bit longer.

Kyle: Um, I'll have, uh, the topics we'll talk about, we'll be set by you guys. So I'll have [00:01:20] a, a q and a, um, QR code on the screen and that. You know, out of the 10 topics that are, are the 10 questions that get asked the most. [00:01:30] Um, and you can upvote them. Everyone in the audience can upvote them. We'll talk about five of those and then we'll have another, uh, time of socializing.

Kyle: And then I wanna get, uh, um, Nicole [00:01:40] Marie, uh, Gary's wife and my wife to, uh, come up for a bit. And we'll do a little, little piece. Um, and then we will, um, that'll kind of be the, the evening. And so, [00:01:50] uh, yeah, I think I haven't talked to Nicole or Marie about it yet either. So, um, uh, but I, uh, I think it'd be a super fun night.

Kyle: Uh, it'd be a real, uh, uh, great time to [00:02:00] connect with other people, uh, socialize and uh, and just also create some, um, fun content that's, uh, encouraging and helpful. So. If you're excited about an idea like that or going to an, an event like [00:02:10] that, um, we need to get Matt and uh, and Gary on board. So, um, I'll put Matt's email address on the screen.

Kyle: I think it's Matthew dot [00:02:20] keen@salvationarmy.ca. Um, Gary, I'll put Gary Barr's, um, social media accounts on the screen as well. If you know Gary, reach out to 'em there on social media. And so, uh, yeah. Anyways, they're almost [00:02:30] here, so I'm not gonna tell 'em I'm putting this at the start of the podcast. If they listen to it, of course they're gonna hear it, but, um, yeah.

Kyle: Anyways, with that I will, uh, [00:02:40] let's get into the episodes.

Matt: You [00:02:50] know, one thing we gotta decrease mm-hmm. Hitting the table. It's loud and kind of like Yeah. Intrusive. That's why I put that rubber thing there. Yeah. But I think it's underneath too. Like every single thing [00:03:00] comes through.

Kyle: Yeah. I actually had a guy talk to me in church that they could, takes care of the audio at Central

Matt: and you can edit that out.

Kyle: Yeah, he takes, he takes care of the audio central and he listens to it. And on Sunday. Is that [00:03:10] Andy? Yeah, I know

Matt: Andy ran to me and he's like, Armenian,

Kyle: he ran into me and he is like, uh, I gotta help you with your audio. Yeah. It's so bad. Yeah.

Matt: Is he going to?

Kyle: [00:03:20] Yeah.

Matt: Nice.

Gary: You still got that, those stacks of third and [00:03:30] fourth there? Okay.[00:03:40]

Gary: Yeah. Do you think you can get 1 70, 1 75 for No problem there?

Gary: Okay.[00:03:50]

Gary: Yeah. Let, can I call you back later about it? Let you know here pretty quick. Yeah. [00:04:00] Okay. Okay. I'll let you know either way. That way you can, uh, move on and get her sold and get some cash flow[00:04:10]

Gary: that I took. Yeah, I'm,

Gary: I think I mailed the check at one 70 [00:04:20] if I'm not mistaken, but I can totally pay you more if I feel okay. I know I just mailed it. I apologize that that was be, that was not okay. I [00:04:30] apologize. No, I don't, I don't like, uh, leaving stuff that long, but, 'cause I definitely had to have a discussion about it.

Gary: Yeah. [00:04:40] Okay. Okay. I'll get back to you on that. If you have a number handy, if you know kind of how much is there, maybe text me that, that would be helpful.[00:04:50]

Gary: He can text it to me if he has a second.[00:05:00]

Gary: Okay. Well we can, we'll do that. Okay. Thank you. Okay, I'll, I'll get back to you. Alright [00:05:10] Gary. Thank you.

Matt: Bye now. So lemme get you up to scratch Gary. Yeah. Educate me. Have you talked to Gary?

Kyle: No. We'll just talk about it when we're recording.

Matt: No, [00:05:20] let me, let me get it through, out, out first. So I went back and listened to my original podcast, the one that, let's

Gary: talk about it on the

Matt: podcast.

Matt: No, no, no, no. I will, I'll [00:05:30] address some of it, but I don't want all this on the podcast. I really don't. I love this guy. Anyway, so I went back and listened to my original podcast, which he told me I shouldn't [00:05:40] do and I did.

Gary: The very first one was first one. Just you and him?

Matt: Yeah. Okay. Very first one. And I just went through the whole thing.

Matt: I was like, Hey, that was pretty good. Right? Never thought about it. [00:05:50] Went to sleep that night. 'cause I listened to it at night and woke up maybe four 30 in the morning and I was. Where did I sell cocaine? Because in the thing [00:06:00] he says, what kind of drugs did you sell? I said, just rhymed them off quickly.

Matt: Cocaine, weed, acid. And I went through every single spot in my life where I was on the blow or at [00:06:10] parties where I was giving out blow or whatever. And that one instance that can, I remember selling it. So I had this massive crisis. I was like, that's not [00:06:20] true. I didn't sell cocaine. And I called Gary, or I texted Kyle and I was like, I think you gotta take down that podcast.

Matt: And he was like, what for? And I said, I said [00:06:30] something that's untrue. Like my integrity's now like

Kyle: bad. Wait, wait, listen to the whole thing. Sorry.

Matt: [00:06:40] Keep

Kyle: going. Why? What's next? Carry on. Is that it? Is that all you wanted to share

Matt: with, with him? Well, that's, I wanted to get his opinion of it.

Kyle: Okay.

Matt: What would you care?

Matt: Would [00:06:50] you, would you think that's a big deal? Of course not. What are we asking him for? Like, that's why it would've been way better on the

Gary: podcast.

Matt: No, I'm [00:07:00] gonna, I'm gonna apologize. Like I'm gonna clarify it on the podcast, but I'm not gonna go off on it because like my, in my head. Okay.

Gary: Before we keep talking.

Gary: Yeah. Let's pray and let's start recording. [00:07:10] Okay. 'cause we have a limited amount of time. And this, for this, you only have so much verbal diarrhea in you. It's, it's a large amount. But isn't that

Matt: verbal diarrhea? This is a big thing. I a massive crisis in my life.

Gary: Go [00:07:20] ahead, Gary. Heavenly father. Um, I do not feel like recording today.

Gary: Um, but here we are. So pray that we would honor you in all that we do. Uh, that [00:07:30] we would, uh, be entertaining if we're supposed to be, and boring, if we're supposed to be. And be okay with whatever comes out of our mouth. Just help us to honor you. Praise your name. Uh, while still [00:07:40] being, uh, yeah. Truthful. Very truthful.

Gary: Yes, sir. We asked in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Amen. Welcome back. Were we recording the whole

Matt: time?

Kyle: Yeah. [00:07:50]

Matt: Why'd you do that? I asked you not to.

Kyle: Because I, I just have it recorded. It doesn't mean I'm gonna publish it. Oh, okay.

Matt: Okay. Alright.

Kyle: Geez. Welcome. Come back.

Matt: Well, sometimes [00:08:00] you do.

Kyle: Welcome back to the episode of The Briefcase of the Barn, A series of the Furious, the Curious Show where we're talking about business, life, Christianity, and more.

Kyle: [00:08:10] Uh, the Bible decided to come back again. Matt Keen is with us. I'm not sure how long he's sticking around. I hope for a long time. People love, people love having you on. So thanks buddy. Appreciate it. Other people hate it, [00:08:20] but whatever. That's why it's good.

Matt: Anyway,

Kyle: get Yeah. We'll start off with what a clarification Matt wants to make.

Kyle: [00:08:30] Yeah. Let him make it. Yeah. Yeah. 'cause it, as you wear, Matt,

Matt: it matters to me. Although you guys are belittling it, it matters to me. I'm not belittling it. Okay, well Gary belittled it. [00:08:40] So I went back, I didn't take your advice and I looked at the very first podcast that you and I recorded. It was just me and you.

Matt: And in that podcast, you know, [00:08:50] I'm talking about my old, my old life and my testimony and stuff like that. And you asked me a question, you said, what drugs did you sell? And I just rhymed off [00:09:00] three drugs, cocaine, weed, and acid. And I never thought about it. Then I went to sleep that night and I got up at around [00:09:10] four 30 in the morning with this question on my mind, where did you sell cocaine?

Matt: And I was like, I went through every place in my life that I could remember where [00:09:20] I was on the blow or, or I was at a party where it was there or a bar. And I can't remember one instance where I actually sold it. So [00:09:30] I need to clarify that because it's untrue. I didn't actually sell cocaine. Even though I've done my share of it, uh, I didn't sell it so it was wrong for me to say [00:09:40] that.

Matt: I thought it, it glamorized the old life too much. And there was a point where you asked me about the money that I was making. I think I should have hammered more, [00:09:50] that the money that I was spending wasn't mine. It was someone else's. Like I was always in debt to someone and the money that I spent, I [00:10:00] often got in trouble for, 'cause I didn't pay it back.

Matt: Like my life was a mess. Right. Or then I'd try and gamble it back and like, go gambling and make the money back, which [00:10:10] rarely helped anything. So I just wanna put it out there that Can you link this to that, to the old podcast or something? No. Like put it in the comments or something like that so that people can see this.

Matt: Look it

Kyle: up. [00:10:20] Yeah.

Matt: Anyway, I just wanted, I don't want that old life to be glamorized. I don't want any kind of embellishment to be attached to my testimony for Jesus. Right. So I [00:10:30] know it's not a big deal for you. I wanted to clarify that. So your

Kyle: conscience is good to clarify. Yeah. For my, for the

Matt: sake of my conscience, even though Gary totally made fun of it.

Matt: Right. [00:10:40] So, anyway,

Kyle: just wanna put it out there. What it reminds me of is embellishment, which is when I started my recovery journey, one of the biggest things that, uh, Dave Curry was teaching me is how much, [00:10:50] uh, addicts in general lie, lie to themselves and just lie about the reality. I didn't do it

Matt: intentionally, like I didn't want to.

Matt: See, I'm not accusing you now. I'm, I'm, yeah. But I was an

Kyle: [00:11:00] addict. Fair. You were not two years ago when you recorded it. No, I'm just talking about that. Like I, I was. As I started like analyzing and looking at my life more, I realized [00:11:10] I was actually embellishing a lot, really, in a lot of different places. I, yeah, I did.

Kyle: I did that a ton and it was something I really needed to take ownership of and repent from. Um, and, uh, I think sometimes it can [00:11:20] still get, get me, um, well, because, and, and yeah, when we, your integrity is brought to question, right? That's

Matt: right. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, I panicked. I was like, oh my goodness. Why?

Matt: What, what did I just say? [00:11:30] Anyway, I want, I wanna clarify that for anybody who has seen that podcast, those points were important to me to fix up. Yeah, it's true, Gary. It [00:11:40] mattered to me. Anyway, thank you for giving me the opportunity.

Kyle: The podcast, by the way, is still down right now. I haven't put it back up yet.

Matt: Okay. So you can put it back up now that I've said that.

Kyle: Alright, thank you. [00:11:50] How you doing, Gary? Really good. Thanks for the coffees.

Matt: Why don't you want to, why don't, why don't you wanna record today, Gary? You said, uh, just were you tired or, no, it's

Gary: raining an inch [00:12:00] every three hours. I'm having PTSD back to the 2021 flood.

Gary: I was gonna post a bunch of videos. I have like a bunch of like raw, random videos right from the day of the flood and the day [00:12:10] our farm flooded. And was it bad haul cows out? Yeah, there was five feet of water on the farm. Did you

Matt: lose

Gary: cows? Uh, we didn't, but our neighbors did. Unfortunately. It's interesting, the lake [00:12:20] bottom.

Gary: So like our farm is part of the Summas lake where we farm in Abbotsford, and our farm is like, kind of right on the edge of the lake bottom. But of course, if you've never seen the lake come back, if you've never seen the [00:12:30] water there, you don't understand where the deep parts are. You just drive through Summas flats and you think it's all pretty level.

Gary: And it is pretty level. But there's a probably, there's about a eight foot height variation. [00:12:40] So like my cousin's farm, he had like 16,000 hogs flood drown. You know, they at the bottom, like all, all drowned, drown. Awful, awful. Eight feet deep. Right? The [00:12:50] water was eight, nine feet deep, like right to the top of the roof, pretty much in the barn.

Gary: Oh wow. But you went over like, you know, a mile. Down the road and you're at like another farm, which is a mile from our farm, [00:13:00] and they're four or five feet deep, right? So the cows are standing there in the water four feet deep until they were put down. It was just really, really awful.

Matt: Oh, wow. Um.

Gary: And, but [00:13:10] interestingly enough I was, you know, I'm fulfilled with fear and paranoia.

Gary: Um, so I took my cows out first. I was hauling my cows out. There's video of me moving my cows out at eight 30 in the morning. It's dry, it's [00:13:20] sunny, it's beautiful day. Um, one block over, the guy's got water pouring being this barn and they're not pulling the cows out. You were being precautionary. Well, and that's just not even my nature.

Gary: I'm always a day late and a dollar [00:13:30] short. Yeah. But I mean, it was just kind of interesting where I called my friend Jeremy Goon and I said, Hey Jeremy, like, what do you think I should do? And he's like, well, you look like an idiot anyway, so you might as well look like an idiot today and take your cows out [00:13:40] early and worst case scenario you gotta go pick 'em back up again and bring 'em home.

Gary: And I mean, that was a real blessing. So crazy. And then once we were roll, pulling all mine out. It kind of created this chain and there [00:13:50] was, you know how people are very helpful in times of crisis. You would've experienced it with Salvation Army. Yeah.

Matt: Actually we got involved in the floods. We didn't, not with you.

Matt: I was at the Salvation Army one night. Yeah. Yeah. [00:14:00] Stopped

Gary: people that brought stuff. Yeah.

Kyle: It's funny, I was just telling someone this morning, went out for coffee, uh, got breakfast with Mike Ra and uh, he, I had to pick him up. So he was driving in my Tesla, you know, people was, gimme crap for [00:14:10] my electric cars.

Kyle: But during those floods they should, 'cause they're crap during those floods. Government knows we're no, gas was getting the time. No gas was getting into Chillowak. 'cause the, the highway was shut on both sides. And so all the [00:14:20] gas stations were running dry. There were still power. So I was driving around in my car and I was like, back, get on back on 'em.

Matt: They're just so pretentious. Eh? [00:14:30]

Gary: They're pretty pretentious. I have electric vehicles. Electric

Matt: vehicles. I mean, I'm not dissing people who drive electric vehicles or the guy who you want to get

Gary: one One or the guy who made one. Yeah.

Matt: Or the guy [00:14:40] who made them. I just think, uh, you not an Elon fan. I don't, I mean, I'm not fan of, of business people.

Matt: I'm a fan of like macho [00:14:50] man, Randy Savage, rest in peace. Who's Randy? Who's Randy? Savage. Savage. What? What?

Kyle: Randy Savage. The

Matt: wrestler. WWE. F, not [00:15:00] WWE. The WWE F.

Kyle: Is that female WWE female or it?

Matt: No. World Wrestling Federation. 80, eighties. Nineties. Dude, I'm not Randy [00:15:10] Savage. Colgan. You're worried about, you know who LK Hogan is?

Matt: I,

Gary: no. Okay, so you're worried about doing people with what you think you're doing? Blow. Trust me. You lost a lot more respect. Just acknowledging [00:15:20] that you're a fan of W wf. No, no, no. Well, that's embarrassing. He's

Matt: okay. Look him up. The only thing, probably best wrestler of all time, it's all fake. It's [00:15:30] acting.

Matt: Whatever

Gary: those guys, please go back to glamorizing your drug life and [00:15:40] flee from talking about Randy Savage and the wwf.

Matt: It's wrestling.

Gary: Wrestling on the east coast. Can't believe you guys. The newies. Yeah, that's right. Not Did you

Matt: see [00:15:50] wrestling yesterday? You would watch

Gary: that growing up in your house?

Matt: Yeah, it was fun.

Gary: I do remember, um, I grew up with no tv, but there was a handful. Oh, I keep forgetting that stuff, right? You got that. I forget. So I would say [00:16:00] 70% of our, I don't even know who our listeners are, but we had like two channels. Okay, well, the bulk of our listener base grew up watching very little TV in the eighties and the nineties, and maybe before that, depending on the age [00:16:10] bracket.

Gary: Um, but anyways, we grew up with no TV and um, I remember gonna my friend's house from school who had a TV and seeing wrestling and I was traumatized. Like they [00:16:20] were smashed. I didn't realize it was fake. I was pretty naive, right? Grew up in Rosedale and they're smashing each other with chairs. And I'm like, man, this is intense.

Matt: Like, he's [00:16:30] next. When you get a chance after this, like look up some famous quotes by Randy Savage, it was like his hilarious, just hilarious. And the way he dressed. [00:16:40] Hilarious.

Kyle: Okay, I'm gonna get you some show notes. Gary, you put in a comment that says, anyone who wants to share anything negative should put their name behind it.

Kyle: Gossip is wrong. Anonymous [00:16:50] gossip is really not cool.

Matt: Why do you need to know who says it?

Gary: I just feel like if, I mean, I was just kind of convicted. We were watching, uh, our freedom [00:17:00] session. Uh, last week was session 12. Yeah. And it's your less obvious offenses.

Kyle: Yeah.

Gary: And just convicting for me 'cause I've gossiped a lot in my life.

Gary: And [00:17:10] gossip is not necessarily, even gossip is just sharing negative stuff. And it's fascinating how people prefer negative information. It's human nature. Like people, that's why the news is the way the news is. 'cause people just sit in front of the [00:17:20] box getting indoctrinated by negative information. Like it's not that there's the odd positive, feel good stories just so they can't get labeled as that.

Gary: But you know, the bulk of, uh, [00:17:30] sharing is, is pretty negative. And I feel like. I guess I feel like if you don't have, if you can't put your name behind something, don't say it. Fair enough. If you can't have a [00:17:40] dialogue, if you have, like, obviously we'll take the anonymous feedback and criticism. I don't care.

Gary: Like I, I'm not affected in any way. It's also fascinating, I, with the feedback [00:17:50] with this show is that, and I don't know, you know, if you were a, a leader in COVID, you was, you were saying you were nailing it if you were getting skewered from both sides, but Right. You know, in this show it's like, you know, some people [00:18:00] say, Hey, we're way too easy on this group.

Gary: The next person says you should be more critical. Like, I just find it fascinating.

Matt: It's just easier to dismiss somebody's comment if their name is not by it. That's how I look at it. [00:18:10] Like, if I see a negative comment and there's no signature there, and I'm like, well, who cares? They don't believe it enough to stand behind it, then I don't believe it enough to be bothered by it.

Gary: No, that's [00:18:20] fair. Yeah, and I guess on the other side of it, it's like when it comes to church stuff, I just feel like I, I can't see any benefit. I can't see how it's helpful in any way to be negative or [00:18:30] critical, like really critical. There again of, of other churches. Are you guys serious? I think it's really dangerous.

Gary: Well, no, it's mostly

Matt: Kyle. Kyle's mostly critical of church. Like you're No, no,

Gary: I'm [00:18:40] saying even the listener feedback. People are like, oh. Some people are like, oh, you should, you know, you're, you guys are so critical of that group. That's, well, lemme tell you next person's like, oh, you should be way harsher.

Gary: Yeah,

Matt: but you, you don't handle [00:18:50] compliments well anyway. Like you, you just don't handle it. Like I told you the other day, Gary, you're a great father and husband. Like, my goodness. Stop being so hard on yourself. [00:19:00] Crickets. Yeah. But you could say

Gary: anything to me, you could have asked me to save your life.

Gary: Would've been, he's terrible. You would've been, Gary hates

Matt: any positive reinforcement. Like you're too down on yourself. [00:19:10] And I'm pretty,

Gary: I have a pretty healthy view of myself, Matt.

Matt: Well, I think you're a swell guy buddy.

Gary: Thanks Matt. Look at. I wish I could say the same about you. Look, look [00:19:20] how awkward.

Gary: That's, I'm not that. Look

Kyle: at all this growth. Alright. Okay, next. Okay, we got a mailbag, uh, [00:19:30] feedback here. Are we

Matt: gonna talk about Bill C nine?

Kyle: Yeah. The, that's severe. Like, that's serious. It's an issue. What should we be doing about it? Matt? Let's go to the address. I don't know. I've thought

Matt: about it. Okay.

Kyle: Maybe to clarify what Bill [00:19:40] C nine is. I thought it was an amendment to Bill C six. I thought that that's what it was. Well, I'm

Matt: not sure about that. I don't know. Uh, it's, it's being talked about now in the press as Bill C nine. So if Bill C nine is [00:19:50] essentially a hate crime, search it a minute. He's gonna get,

Gary: Matt's gonna get dumped on again for talking a lot about something that he doesn't know much about.

Gary: I like the ostriches. I like the ostriches.

Matt: [00:20:00] Yeah. Which by the way, I think were victims of government overreach. Just saying I had no idea believe that the ostriches were the real victims.[00:20:10]

Kyle: The battle over BCCC nine, the federal government's proposed anti hate law has blown up. That's culture divide. Not only pits Quebec against the rest of Canada, but seriously. Questions, [00:20:20] Ottawa's willingness to toggle hate crimes. And recently, uh, the block Corp quo, which is the federal, federal party that's they've paired up only in Quebec, has agreed to vote [00:20:30] favor with the liberal party.

Kyle: With the liberal party in favor of this bill if they remove the religious exemption part of the bill,

Matt: which essentially is

Kyle: protection of religious groups and [00:20:40] sharing their beliefs. That's right.

Matt: Yeah. Yeah. So you basically, right now they want to enshrine in the law, uh. To make religious texts, IE the bible, the Quran, other [00:20:50] religious texts, whatever, hate literature, if it's read aloud publicly or preached publicly.

Matt: So this clause that was in [00:21:00] there allowed for someone who held deep convictions about the text itself to, you know, as long as they're not just attacking a single [00:21:10] group all the time, then you had a, a bit of a, a, um, a leeway. Right. You know, there was, there was some gray place there, but now they wanna remove that so that even if it's [00:21:20] stated that the, uh, verse a verse in scripture is anti-gay or anti, uh, minority group or whatever, or can be [00:21:30] perceived that way, that's where it's most dangerous.

Matt: If it can be perceived that way, yeah, then it can, you can be charged with a hate crime and, uh, even do, I [00:21:40] think, even do prison time.

Kyle: Yeah, for sure. Percent. If it gets passed within a year, I will be in jail. I guarantee it.

Matt: Like, I'm not [00:21:50] visiting you.

Kyle: Like I don't see how, not like it's crazy now. There has been a bunch of pushback now, so I'm curious if there has, yeah.

Kyle: If there's x gonna get passed. But you see it in the uk. I [00:22:00] mean, I, it's, it's crazy is they're

Matt: gone. They're they're lost, man.

Kyle: Yeah. I mean, it, it's gonna come here, uh, eventually, I think. But I mean, the Bible says don't be surprised.

Matt: Yeah, it's [00:22:10] true. Yeah. It's, we shouldn't be surprised. Don't be fearful,

Gary: but still have your eyes wide open.

Gary: And I would, I mean, ARPA and groups like that, there are people that probably have, or not probably, I'm sure they do, [00:22:20] they would have letters that you could write to your, your m. Yeah. Um, and other government, I mean, it's really the liberal party that needs to hear, right? Yeah. That people are upset

Kyle: about it.

Kyle: They

Matt: couldn't care less.

Kyle: They couldn't care less, I [00:22:30] don't think. But I, I think it pushes more like the Bible says, be ready to explain the hope that is in you. A lot of people can't explain that to their neighbors or their family members. I think what they, or, or do people in their own church [00:22:40] about what they actually believe, and as soon as the pressure comes, they're gonna fold.

Kyle: Yeah. But like, like crappy chairs.

Matt: I think in this case though, [00:22:50] like the argument is you're not sharing the hope. Like there what, but this, I'm saying this bill is arguing that it's not necessary to share the kinds [00:23:00] of texts that are in the Old Testament, or even some parts in the New Testament that specifically call out stuff like homosexuality as being sinful.

Matt: So this bill is arguing [00:23:10] you can share hope without, you know, focusing on these small texts.

Kyle: Yeah. And I'm saying most Christians are living in a way where they're not even doing that and are Right, right, [00:23:20] right. Okay. Yeah. And to have no backbone and are just like, will fold as soon as the pressure ramps up or keep their mouth shut.

Kyle: And if this is coming in, oh, right. Yeah. If [00:23:30] this is coming into our country and, and it's coming fast, then I think it's more of an encouragement of Gary's question, Hey, what should we do about this? And it's to get ready, like know your [00:23:40] word, like know what you believe. I've all know, know why you believe it and like push your faith into a spot that when it gets to push comes to shove, you will be able to [00:23:50] stand.

Kyle: Stand. Right. Like, and I think a lot of people will not be able to stand and that, I think that's the most terrifying thing. I've

Matt: already had a Christian, an older guy, tell me, well, what do you need to talk about those [00:24:00] verses for? Right. So my excuse. Split. It's

Kyle: gonna split the church.

Matt: Yeah. My concern will is that the, [00:24:10] the beginning of the bill, the law will say, you can't say it soon.

Matt: It'll be that scripture can't be read. That's right. They'll make the bible the, the bulk. [00:24:20] Like, so right now they're just attacking a couple of verses. Eventually it'll be the whole text, the whole book.

Gary: Are they going after other religious books as well, though?

Matt: They claim to be, [00:24:30] but watch and see.

Matt: Australia's already seen, uh, an Islamophobia law that is blatantly, uh, constructed to favor, [00:24:40] uh, Islam over any other faith. And it was specifically asked in their parliament or their Senate, I can't remember where, uh, where that law [00:24:50] of religious hatred against this group. Yeah, does it apply to Christians?

Matt: And it was just totally dismissed. So the, like the following week there was an [00:25:00] article in a paper that was making fun of Christians, and then just a couple of days later it basically came out saying that you cannot [00:25:10] criticize or belittle Islam. So it's two tier system Christians are able to are, you know.

Matt: Okay. But the law that I understood,

Gary: especially that [00:25:20] Quebec was trying to pass just in Quebec Yep. Was very much against, was it not against wearing the religious symbols like the, and I can't even pronounce what it, the burka, you can't wear

Matt: [00:25:30] the burka or the hijab. Yeah. But you also can't wear a cross. So on paper it's true what you said is true.

Matt: That's not

Kyle: that, that's not the federal law we're talking about. No, [00:25:40] I

Matt: realize that. But that's, that for Quebec, that's kind of where it started. Well, and

Gary: I guess Quebec in general, and I was in Montreal last or year before last at a conference and like it's very secular. Right? Secular. [00:25:50]

Matt: They wanna be France.

Gary: Yeah. It's what, it's interesting. And there again, there's people that would know this, that live there. I think there's people that listen to the show that are out there, but it's like the, like do they, a lot of them are [00:26:00] not, they'd be considered call themselves Catholic, would they not or not anymore?

Gary: There's a lot, there's a

Matt: lot of, yeah, there's a lot of like, uh, Catholics on the books. Yeah. But [00:26:10] I mean, whether they follow it or not, we don't know.

Gary: I have another question for you. This is way more Totally, 'cause it's just making me think of it, talking about Catholics this way. Um, [00:26:20] do you think Mormons, are there Mormons that are saved, that are Christians?

Matt: How do we get from Bill C nine to that? Sorry, I'm just, that's on my brain. Are there Mormons? So [00:26:30] Mormonism is a cult. So the church of Latter Day Saints is a cult. And the reason it's a cult by definition is because it diminishes the necessity of the cross. [00:26:40] And the triune nature of God is not held intact.

Matt: So by definition, that will bring you into Jehovah's Witness. Same thing. So where the cross and, and its [00:26:50] necessity, uh, for salvation is compromised or where the triune nature of God is compromised. You enter into cult hood 'cause you're still calling the [00:27:00] characters of Christianity important to you and, and even venerating them.

Matt: But you're, you've, you've demeaned what the [00:27:10] Bible has revealed God to be. So can a Mormon be saved inside Mormonism? Yes. The Holy Spirit can do anything. Can he [00:27:20] remain a faithful Mormon while being born again? Impossible. Can't. Interesting. Yeah. Because he has to renounce what he wants, believed about [00:27:30] Jesus and what he wants believed about the Father, what he wants, believed about the Holy Spirit.

Gary: Jesus. They believe Jesus is a savior. They believe Jesus is a, a savior, not believe not God.

Matt: Yeah. So they don't believe in the [00:27:40] Godhead. Okay, so the, the Godhead is three separate gods. So ge So more, here's here, this is, I did some study on it years ago. [00:27:50] Mormonism believes that the father, Elohim is God. And he has a celestial [00:28:00] wife, by which he made tons of celestial children.

Matt: Jesus is the first born of the celestial [00:28:10] relationship between Elohim, the father, and uh, um, whoever the wife is. Lucifer was the second. So Lucifer and Jesus are biological, for lack of [00:28:20] a better term, brothers in Mormonism.

Gary: Would all Mormons believe this? Well, in the book, Mor Well, it's their doc.

Matt: It's their catechism.

Matt: No. So they have, I think it's in the pearl of great price. I think. So [00:28:30] they have different books. So you have the, I think the Doctrines and Covenants is, so they have the Book of Mormon, which is like a, a part two to the Scriptures that's written

Gary: by Joseph Smith. [00:28:40] Joseph Smith,

Matt: who was complete lunatic, by the way.

Matt: And I say that without any problems like sticking his head, but

Gary: that's how people would talk about me. And maybe even you

Matt: No sticking their head [00:28:50] like he would stick his, he was into like all kinds of occultic stuff and weird, really weird stuff. Yeah, yeah. Sticking his, he, he, he stuck his head in a hat and that's where he would get revelations of [00:29:00] scripture in this dark hat.

Matt: Oh, that's, that's what I do. Yeah. Anyway, so, uh, it, it is part of their doctrine. So, which is why Mormons believe that [00:29:10] when we, uh, die, and if we go to heaven, we are given a planet of our own and we become Gods, and we can do what God did here. [00:29:20] Right.

Gary: They definitely don't talk about that stuff that much.

Matt: They will never do that. And if you bring it up, they, they don't, they look for the trap door. They [00:29:30] wanna get outta there real fast.

Gary: Yeah. Yeah. Because I, my experience

Matt: mm-hmm.

Gary: Um, is they're lovely people.

Matt: I wanna say they're lovely people, but they're, they're beliefs are wacko.

Kyle: Yeah. Yeah. [00:29:40] There's a lot of people that I really love Lou, whose beliefs are wacko

Matt: in, in comparison to scripture.

Matt: I mean, I guess my

Gary: other thought is if you grabbed, if an a total unbeliever grabbed a [00:29:50] swath of Christians from every church in Chowa and sat down with them, or even watched their life or listened or asked 'em to explain what they believed,

Matt: yeah.

Gary: A lot of it would not [00:30:00] line up with what the Bible teaches.

Gary: Right. And so I wonder, well that's,

Matt: are you sure of it? 'cause that's a really bad thing. Like if you lined up all the churches across scripture, uh, across Chillowak. Yeah. [00:30:10] And you included the Jehovah's Witness and the Mormons in that giant line of churches. Yeah. They would stand out real quick, apart from all the risks.

Matt: Oh, I [00:30:20] would really disagree with you. No, no, no. I'm talking doctrinally.

Gary: Okay.

Matt: Guaranteed the guarantee they would, but now I can't speak of practically, I can't speak of the [00:30:30] people in those churches. I'm just saying what the church teaches and believes.

Kyle: And I think the people in the churches also really don't know what they believe.

Kyle: I remember I challenged my dad to go to his, it's a big deal, his oldest catechism [00:30:40] class and say, get 'em all to write down the definition of the gospel on a piece of paper and see what they would write down, you know, of 30 or 40 kids that are there. And I, I'm like, I kid kids or [00:30:50] adults, uh, like, uh, between ages 18 and 20 or, oh,

Matt: those are adults.

Matt: Okay.

Kyle: And, and I would say, uh, I don't think he ever did that, but I don't think anybody would have the right answer. Or maybe like one or two of [00:31:00] actually the definition of the gospel, the most fundamental, basic thing. Um, and most people to go to church and do not know what to believe. Let's try it here. My

Gary: experience.

Gary: I was gonna say, just to go [00:31:10] back to the Mormon thing, my experience was sitting in a truck with them. How did

Matt: this come up, by the way?

Gary: Well, 'cause we were talking about Catholics and the other, other night. No, I mean, for you, for me personally, because we had a discussion the other night. We had a group of people, [00:31:20] young guys at my house with Mormons.

Gary: Well, no, it was all. Dutch young Bucks mostly. Okay. Okay. And we were having a card game and we were talking about this, about the idea of like, like I [00:31:30] grew up in a culture personally where Catholicism, for example, was really crapped on.

Gary: Right.

Gary: Which I find semi ironic based on some of the teaching, how similar [00:31:40] to Catholicism it looks, right?

Gary: Right. The idea of works and just this little, the messiness of how Try harder, try harder, how that can play out in, in our culture. But [00:31:50] um, we were just talking about like, hey, king Catholics are Catholics, Christians, and then veered into our Mormons Christians. And one of the guys was like, ah. I think some of them [00:32:00] are like, and then I have a, a distinct memory of 15 years ago being on a hay buying trip, being in Southern Alberta where there's a lot of Mormons.

Gary: Yep. Salt of the earth people. Yep. Lovely people. Self described [00:32:10] salt, you know, great people. And I got in this pickup with this guy and we just got, and there again I had, I mean, I don't even have a lot of biblical knowledge now, but I had very little back then, despite all my [00:32:20] years of indoctrination. Like I really didn't understand and I didn't read the Bible mm-hmm.

Gary: In any great detail. But he definitely did. You know, and he was just kind of explaining to me The Mormon did. Yeah. He did the [00:32:30] Bible or his own scriptures. No, his Bible. The Bible. That's, that's rare. Well, that's what I'm asking you. Is it that rare or is it, or is it similar to some of our denominations where the spectrum is [00:32:40] so broad they would read the

Matt: Book of Mormon

Gary: frequently more than the Bible.

Gary: Absolutely.

Matt: For the most part, the majority. We might

Gary: have a couple Mormon listeners and they might be pounding on the i'd. I would on the dashboard, hear [00:32:50] feedback Right now, I'd love to

Kyle: interview a Mormon too. Come on the show.

Matt: Yeah, that'd be awesome. Like, uh, I'd like to watch that, but, um, I would, that'd be, that'd be really interesting.

Matt: But I think a, like the [00:33:00] vast majority of Mormons that I've had relationships with and met and whatever, don't really read the Bible as they claim it is, but they don't [00:33:10] read it as like the primary source of truth. The Book of Mormon is that.

Gary: Well, and I guess if you read scripture itself Yeah. If you take her out away from scripture, you're damned

Matt: every [00:33:20] if say that again.

Gary: I think in, somewhere in, is it Revelation where it says, if you take away or add, or add to this word. That's correct. Right. Yeah. And so I Judgment is harsh. Yeah. Um, which is, [00:33:30] there again, I'm not sure if they're reading that part or, um, or if they put it in a different cap and they're saying, Hey, this is not the word of God.

Gary: This is revolution, revelations from another man,

Matt: and [00:33:40] here's what's even like, I discovered this. If in ministry dealing with Muslims, the similarities between how the [00:33:50] Koran was revealed and the way that the Book of Mormon was revealed, they're uncanny. Like it's so similar. Are you Sure? Positive. Okay. I'm always questioning if this [00:34:00] is

Gary: in an ostrich situation where you're just listening.

Gary: You guys

Matt: can look all this up. Look like you should look it all

Gary: up anyway. Right. Execute yourself. Yeah. Totally. Or not.

Kyle: Or just stay outta

Gary: the weeds.

Kyle: Right. Some things are better left. Just, well, I [00:34:10] think it's good your time. Well, you need to know, like, I think to know the fundamental of how to communicate with these people.

Kyle: They, when you run, run into them and know why you believe, what you believe and what they believe. I [00:34:20] helpful. It's good to ask questions, right?

Matt: Like, what? What do you mean by this? Well, that's, where does that come from? Where does that come from? Like,

Gary: how do you believe that?

Matt: Why do you believe

Gary: that? Well, it's fascinating.

Gary: We didn't talk about

Matt: what the gospel was, by the way. I wanna

Gary: get to that. [00:34:30] Well, it's actually, so that's, I guess full circle. It's like, that's what's interesting. It's like, okay, how are you saved? And if you ask them a Mormon, how they're saved, you could Google it.

Matt: Mm. [00:34:40]

Gary: I'd be surprised if it's not the gospel.

Matt: No, it won't be. It won't be the gospel. It, it will be, it will be a bastardized version of the gospel. Okay. It it'll be like, um, [00:34:50] we believe that, uh, that Jesus Christ is our Savior, and that through his atoning sacrifice we can be, uh, brought [00:35:00] into a relation with Heavenly Father. They'll say relationship with heavenly Father.

Matt: They'll say something like that. The problem is that Jesus that they trust is not the Son of God or is not, is [00:35:10] not God. Is not God is not God. Right. So, so you've, you've, you've stripped the gospel of its power and the power of the gospel is the divine nature of Christ being [00:35:20] sacrificed for us, and they remove it and then you're in trouble, right.

Matt: As soon as you do that with Jesus,

Gary: it is interesting how all religions have these sex of, um, [00:35:30] or this idea of good works and how they have done so well in that sense.

Matt: Well, it's Judaism right. It's creeped into every part of Christianity.

Gary: Yeah. And it's fascinating how [00:35:40] as much as we as Christians would, would disagree with that theology, how much we still practice it.

Gary: And like our Sunday sermon, Matt talked about it, just this idea of like, hey, [00:35:50] we are all, if we don't understand the depth of our sin, we're in deep trouble, right? Mm-hmm. And I mean, for some, for myself, it's pretty obvious every day I have enough struggles that I feel like [00:36:00] I'm pretty in tune with my shortcomings.

Gary: But it is interesting how it's still, the, the, the, um, idea of trying harder or presenting well on the outside in our culture is so, [00:36:10]

Kyle: is so prevalent. I mean, it's opposite. It's opposite. Unconditional love is what most people don't understand from. I I, in my conversations I have with people and, and it's because the whole world is set up.[00:36:20]

Kyle: If you do good, you get a reward and you do bad. You get a punishment. Get punishment. Yeah. Like it, it's that, and which is the opposite of the gospel. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and, and the

Matt: immediate administration of it. Yes. [00:36:30]

Kyle: But eventually, that's right. Yeah. Our sins get dealt with in two places. Either the cross or hell.

Kyle: That's right.

Matt: Vengeance is mindset.

Kyle: Sayeth the Lord. Yeah. So anyway, my definition of the gospel would be, [00:36:40] I'm gonna share it. It's a fact. I'm gonna share it now. And I'm curious what your take is on it. I'm putting myself on to live here. You know what if, if I'm gonna get

Matt: you tell the gospel, I'm gonna get uc.

Matt: You're a Mormon. Kyle. [00:36:50]

Kyle: Gary's on his phone. Gary's on his phone. I need a lockbox back in here. Yeah, we do. I'm good guys. It's a long podcast. It's his wife. What? Now that Matt's come on. What's, what's going on? [00:37:00] Interrupt. Okay. So I believe that God created the heaven and the earth.

Matt: Well, you're going through every po I thought you were just gonna say what the gospel is.

Matt: Yeah. I won't get there. I'm

Kyle: gimme like three minutes. Okay. He's Dutch. [00:37:10] Right? Okay. Uh, and that he created Adam and Eve. Are you reading this? No. And Adam and Eve. Sinned.

Matt: Yeah.

Kyle: And separated themselves from God. Sure. And [00:37:20] then God said he was gonna give away to make things right. And he keeps promising that through the whole all Old Testament, that a savior is coming.

Kyle: Mm-hmm. And then in the New Testament, this guy comes [00:37:30] around, his name is Jesus. Jesus. And he claims to be God. He's still everyone that he claims to be God. And everyone's like, what? How is that possible? Mm-hmm. Uh, and then he and uh, 'cause lots of people, other people [00:37:40] claim to be God too. And then he's, uh, not many.

Kyle: Uh, I think throughout history a lot of people have claimed to be God. Oh, I mean, in Jewish history. Oh,

Matt: okay. Not many. 'cause that was such a big, [00:37:50] big deal. Vile offense. Yeah.

Kyle: Yeah. Fair enough. Yeah. Um, and then he did miracles, uh, which more, which more proved that he was God, uh, but people were still, not a lot of people were still not sure.[00:38:00]

Kyle: 'cause a lot of people had been able to do miracles as well. Um, but then he rose from the dead. Mm-hmm. And no one that it has ever claimed to be God has risen from the dead. Did

Matt: you talk about the crucifixion? Because that was a [00:38:10] big chunk of it. Yeah. Kind of missed that.

Kyle: No, you're interrupting me. Sorry.

Matt: Go ahead.

Matt: I, we went to the resurrection.

Kyle: Yeah. Fair. Fair enough. So, so he, [00:38:20] uh, claimed to be God and said, and, and they killed him for it. Mm. Uh, and they put him on a cross. Um, and, uh, God put all of. Um, [00:38:30] his wrath, uh, that was meant for, um, sinners on his son. Instead, he was, uh, we became his righteousness and he took our sin.

Kyle: Mm-hmm. And, uh, he died [00:38:40] and then he rose from the dead and No, and there was proof of that outside the Bible. Mm-hmm. Uh, like there's over 500 eyewitnesses. There's, there's tons of references to this, that this was a real man that really claimed to be [00:38:50] God. Mm-hmm. That actually rose from the dead.

Gary: Mm-hmm.

Kyle: And no one else has done that before.

Kyle: So if that's actually true, then everything he said is true as well.

Gary: Mm-hmm.

Kyle: And what he taught was that we are [00:39:00] sinful. Mm-hmm. We are fallen away from God. Mm-hmm. And that he can make us right with him if we confess our sins to him.

Gary: Mm-hmm.

Kyle: Repent from them, turn from them and follow him.

Gary: Mm-hmm. [00:39:10]

Kyle: There's nothing we need to do at one of my favorite verses that he, that he, that doesn't work but believes in him is counted as righteous.

Kyle: And so I think that's the gospel, that Jesus is [00:39:20] actually God, that he actually, um. Is who he says he was. Mm-hmm. Uh, that he took our sin. And if we repent from our sins, confess it and follow him. [00:39:30] Mm-hmm. That we will have eternal life.

Matt: Yeah. That's a good gospel. Uh, I teach it in Sunday school like this. Uh, [00:39:40] the gospel is the life, the death, and the resurrection and reason for Christ's coming.

Matt: And I could do that over four weeks. So the life, the death, the resurrection [00:39:50] and reason for Christ coming is the gospel.

Gary: Does your church have Sunday school before church? Like with everybody or just the kids? No. So,

Matt: so, so if you're under 12, under No. If you're grade [00:40:00] six or over, you stay in to listen to the sermon.

Matt: Sunday school is during the sermon for smaller kids, so they don't have to sit through a boring sermon. Right. [00:40:10] Especially if I'm preaching. One thing I wanna add

Kyle: to though, but the resurrection, the fact that he actually, everything he said is a hundred percent true. Gives me so much hope in the sense of not having to fear.

Kyle: Anything. 'cause [00:40:20] if he says all things work together for good, for those that love him mm-hmm. And are called according to his purpose, then everything that's happening in this world, the way it's falling apart and everything's going crazy, is we don't need to be scared. Mm-hmm. We don't need to be [00:40:30] fearful.

Kyle: He says, don't be anxious for tomorrow. For tomorrow is his own worries. Like we don't have to worry about next week and how it's all gonna play out, gonna work. We can trust him. Like we can trust him at his word. Yeah. We can put our finger [00:40:40] on the text even when we feel like we're upside down and backwards.

Kyle: Even if the text

Matt: is illegal. Yeah,

Kyle: it is fact. Right? Like it's fact. You can't change it. And that gives me so much hope.

Matt: I [00:40:50] was just talking to a guy, excuse me yesterday. And we were talking about how, um, like there's so much peace in [00:41:00] knowing that God holds your life. And he said, I don't even know what I did before I came to the Lord.

Matt: Like, what? You know what I mean? Like I was [00:41:10] dealing with life and I didn't have any kind of certainty that tomorrow was going to be in my control. And I would, you know, it would lead to [00:41:20] panic or whatever, but in Christ Jesus, I just believe and know, and there's this peace because of it that anything that happens, the [00:41:30] Lord is holding me.

Matt: That's right. Right. And and it was a good question. What do you do without him? Right.

Kyle: I guess you do drugs and you work really hard and you escape. I guess on the flip side though, I would [00:41:40] say

Gary: like, so that's the comforting side, but there still is consequence for sin. There is. I think so times people are like, oh, it'll all work out, or God's got this.

Gary: No, you're, you're a buffoon. [00:41:50] And you're making horrible life choices. I think I just kicked the camera. That's okay. I'm sorry about that. Yeah. Um, yeah, you're right. I just think like you have to hold both, that you're always in that tension, [00:42:00] right? Yeah. Somebody described that the other day to me.

Kyle: But even when you're dealing with your consequences of your own sins, especially if they're self-inflicted sins, if you go to him, he'll help you in that spot too.

Kyle: Mm-hmm. [00:42:10] He cares about that. He cares about the fact that like, if you got kicked outta your house or you're on the street or whatever else like that, it's not like he leaves you stand there by like, oh, you're such an idiot. You, this is self-inflicted for, and I notice

Matt: you go to the extreme [00:42:20] like kicked outta the house or you're living on the street or you're doing drugs or, but like

Kyle: anything, yeah,

Matt: anything at all.

Matt: You know, if you, every little thing, if you're miserable at work or the [00:42:30] kids that you have, don't respect you like with the Lord, not me. My kids. Respect your

Gary: kids really respect you. I've heard they're your offspring. It should be. It's true. I [00:42:40] love the embellish on a podcast. No, I don't. No, no. Whatever it is.

Matt: I think, I think that what, um, what we have in Jesus Christ is more. Like, [00:42:50] uh, not just peace, but he's in control and there's, you can rest in his control of things. People don't realize that.

Gary: Have we recorded [00:43:00] since I've been to Ontario? I don't think so.

Matt: Why? What happened?

Gary: It was just interesting, right? Was it on?

Gary: It was in a hotel room with five kids. I think we did record. Right? Did we record last week?

Kyle: No, we didn't record

Gary: last week. No we didn't. [00:43:10]

Kyle: Okay. You went to Ontario. You wanna talk about it with five kids? Well, I just thought it very sanctifying to go in a hotel with five kids. Good on you. Got five nights in Toronto.

Kyle: Good for

Matt: you. Mr. Gary couldn't do it.

Kyle: It was pretty

Gary: interesting. [00:43:20] Came back without

Matt: your wife or with your wife? Just with the kids. Well,

Gary: for both of us. It felt like we were by ourself apparently once we got back and started talking about it. Okay. Alright. How did that go? [00:43:30] How did that talk go? Ah, it's been an ongoing discussion.

Gary: Okay. It's fascinating how difficult it was. It's interesting how, I mean, Matt has a perfect marriage, but for the rest of us that have some [00:43:40] struggles periodically, it's

Matt: a perfect marriage. Yeah. Because I got a perfect wife.

Gary: Yeah. Um. It's just interesting how you can both come out of a situation or me and my wife come out of a situation [00:43:50] where we both felt like we were trying to look after the other person.

Gary: Right. And then come out of that feeling like both of our needs were not met. Can you picture how this conversation was

Matt: just, I think of Marie, like, [00:44:00] I saintly. Is she saintly in your mind? I think she, like, she is, like, in my mind she is like, like the Proverbs 31 woman. Okay. Why is that? I don't [00:44:10] know. Like, uh, well first of all, she can drive a boat.

Matt: That's super impressive to me. Right. Maybe just being a newie, she can drive a boat and, and like know how to [00:44:20] tie it up. Right. Put it on the trailer. Yeah. Like yeah.

Gary: That is hard on our marriage.

Matt: Yeah. You know, my dad asked me when I started dating Fiona, like, can she log a load of wood? Right. Basically. Is she [00:44:30] useful or is it just like

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