Do Your Kids Actually Need the Money You’re Leaving Them? - Briefcase & The Barn EP 113

September 16, 2026

CALVIN: [00:00:00] Oh, you took your shoes off. I was told I could keep mine on

GARY: Yeah, keep them on. I'm, I'm on holy ground right now

CALVIN: Other chairs. And one of those coffees is yours.

GARY: Oh, thank

CALVIN: you. So the way it worked was I took a little bit from each cup, put it in

KYLE: my cup. Nice. You can, you can afford three of them.

GARY: I want the smallest one. I want the smallest one. Sorry? You can afford three of them. Oh, you need more. You need more,

CALVIN: Matt. No, no, no, that's good 'cause I'm... Buddy, look at this. I'm wound.

Wound. Okay,

GARY: where

CALVIN: are you gonna sit? Are you... Are the, are we the anchors? I'm a

GARY: bold anchor.

CALVIN: I'll

KYLE: go in the middle. Okay. You guys are gonna do most of the talking anyway, so.

GARY: Kyle's like a wiener in a hotdog, and he'll just be...

KYLE: Wow,

GARY: that was intense. Why are you gay? Why? I- My son, 12 years old- ... that was the greatest thing he'd ever seen in his life.

CALVIN: Okay, good. I was like, "Oh, did I?" What?

GARY: I

CALVIN: figured. Like, when I sent that to Gary. Sent

GARY: what?

CALVIN: I sent- Did you...

GARY: Were you wondering if it, do you how I'd receive it?

CALVIN: A little. Like, I thought I knew you, [00:01:00] but you're like, "Dude, I barely know you, and you're sending me this?" And, and- That's

KYLE: just the c- He's just trying to-

CALVIN: And do you know the r- I didn't even know if you knew the reference.

So-

KYLE: Do you know the reference? No, I don't know the reference, right. Oh, okay. That's- Yeah ... that, that, that's the reference. You don't...

CALVIN: Oh, well, you got the reference now.

KYLE: It's probably the one of the most, one of the most famous- clips.

CALVIN: Ever Yeah. Why are you gay? Who says I am gay? You are gay. Do

KYLE: you know some African guy in the ba- like, in the height of, like, not being able to say any of that stuff?

CALVIN: Yeah. He

KYLE: just said it? The African guy, and he was just like, "Why are you gay?"

CALVIN: Who says I am gay? Yeah. Um- Have you- Do you know Jason Kruse from Hunger for Life? Yeah. So he'll send me- Grew up with him ... out of the blue, yeah, he'll be like, "Why are you gay?" And then I always say, "Who says I'm gay? You are gay." And then he'll send me a clip.

So I figured you had that sense of humor as well, 'cause-

GARY: Yeah, it's interesting though, because, like, I do, but, like, my kid, like, it's, like, interesting how I had to, like, I nuanced it. I'm like, yeah, I, I added a lot of color for my son. [00:02:00]

KYLE: So did it, like, play out-

GARY: He went on a anti-tirade, like, a ho- anti-homosexuality tirade, eh.

Oh, wow.

CALVIN: Good job, boy. Daddy's proud of you. But-

GARY: It's complicated though, 'cause it's just, like, I guess I spend enough time with people that struggle in the Christian community with homosexuality- Yeah ... that I probably have a pretty soft, I don't know what the right word or term would be. It's not soft. We can talk about it on- It,

CALVIN: it's a proper point of

GARY: view.

I mean, normally we would talk about this on the

CALVIN: podcast, Steve. Fair enough. So what you're doing is you're probably differentiating the identity from the behavior, and I know of men as well. Like, I was in a sauna with a guy, I'm like, "You got any kids?" He's like, "No, Calvin, I'm homosexual." I'm like, "Oh." I said, "Well, is that your identity?"

He's like, "Yeah." I'm like, "I'm gonna tell you something. It's not your identity, it's a behavior, and it's just like an alcoholic. That's a behavior. That's not how you define them." And I said, and we kind of talked through it, and he's like, "I never heard it presented this way." 'Cause you're not, it's, um, it's not them as individuals you have an issue with, it's the, the lifestyle, [00:03:00] um, which is unhealthy.

GARY: Yeah, I guess the people that live in that, they would say, you know, if somebody was here that struggled with that, Christian or non, they would just say, "Hey, no, you don't understand, like, this is literally who I am. Like, I'm attracted to men. Like, you're attracted- Yeah ... to women, and I'm attracted to men."

CALVIN: Yeah, and what i- what if you're attracted to children? It's who you are? It's, it's a behavior, and there's usually, it's usually associated with a, uh- ... a situation. I know, I, Gary, I know- Where the fuck,

GARY: where's Kyle?

KYLE: Kyle, get your ass up

CALVIN: here. Get over here, buddy, we're doing stuff. But, um-

GARY: I should probably almost, I'll have to take a bathroom break right, right here 'cause remember-

CALVIN: Yeah, I just did a number one

GARY: Okay.

I always take a number two here. I just desecrate their toilet. I just literally just des-

CALVIN: Do you flush it or leave it? Pardon? Do, do you flush

GARY: it or leave it? I do flush it, but I, because of the way I do it- Yeah ... I need a shower afterwards- ... and the toilet's perpetually-

CALVIN: Paint, painted ...

GARY: painted.

CALVIN: And then the next, the guy comes along, and he'll work on pressure washing it off.

Uh, and that's when you [00:04:00] know you still have it. You're still alpha if you can remove the other guy's splatter. Um, yeah, fair enough. I've counseled individuals like this, too. I don't think I have nearly the counseling that you do, or experience you do, or, or, um, uh, Jeremy.

GARY: I mean, the facts are the facts- Okay

so I'm not gonna, I'm not, I'm not saying any of that's not the case, and I'm not saying it's not sin.

CALVIN: Yeah.

GARY: I think it's sin. It's, it's just the idea of, um-

KYLE: Um, give me one sec. Is it cold enough in here to turn this on? Yeah.

GARY: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

CALVIN: And then just a quick favor you don't have to do or not, we don't reference the time that we're filming 'cause, uh, some of my coworkers listen in Washington are like, "You're supposed to be doing a budget, and you were, you said you were at a meeting."

GARY: I love how we're starting off by being deceptive. I know. That's my kind of podcast. Yeah, yeah, I'm so sorry. I feel good about it. Let's go. This is,

CALVIN: uh- You just gave me a great way to open. Today is, [00:05:00] these are, uh, Evan was- Say

GARY: this evening, right?

CALVIN: You can, no, you, you don't have to lie. I won't make

GARY: you. No, I would lie.

I, I'm totally fine though. Okay.

KYLE: Okay, welcome back to another Briefcase in the Barn. It is 5:00 PM here on... Shoot, no.

GARY: I'm gonna, I'm gonna pray.

KYLE: Heavenly Father, God,

GARY: um, we do want to honor you. We want to be truthful.

KYLE: Accessibility shortcuts.

GARY: Uh, this is really weird, but, uh, my whole life is controlled- Use the Tab key to navigate-

by robots now ... and press Space to turn on off So Lord, we thank you that Calvin can join us. I pray that, I actually know this podcast will be more entertaining than normal 'cause, uh, he's a lot funnier of a guy than Kyle and I are. Lord, I pray that we would honor you in all that we do. We thank you for the many, many blessings we have.

We pray for the hearts that w- ears that will hear this. We pray that there would be convicting words, entertaining, and, uh, yeah, ultimately honoring to you. We thank you for everything we have. In Jesus' name, amen. Amen.

CALVIN: Are we live?

KYLE: We are live. Welcome back to the Briefcase in the Barn, episode 113. [00:06:00] We've got, uh, Gary's back, and we got KGH joining us.

CALVIN: Well, you got Calvin joining you.

KYLE: Calvin.

CALVIN: I'm a longtime caller, first-time listener.

KYLE: Okay. Longtime... Who y- Who'd you call? Awkward

CALVIN: question guy. No. Yeah, no, I'm, uh... So I, I've, uh, I got put onto your podcast from a coworker.

KYLE: Yeah.

CALVIN: Uh, Joel Wubs, if we can say names. And he said, "If you want to understand- Kyle

GARY: loves saying names. He loves calling out anybody- ... to embarrass them, humiliate their family. Gary likes making stuff up, too.

CALVIN: Okay. Well, I won't do that, but he, he just said, "If you want to understand me and, you know, a lot of your coworkers, listen to this podcast."

I listened to it, and then a day or two later, I actually met with Gary on a different matter and I s- it felt like meeting a celebrity. Yeah,

KYLE: he is pretty...

CALVIN: I mean- Yeah. He's a big deal around Chilliwack.

KYLE: Yeah. I agree. It's the silver hair, I think.

GARY: Yeah.

KYLE: Um-

GARY: Every day the kids are like, "Wow,

KYLE: hello" So, yeah. So then Gary put me on to you and...

or you texted me.

CALVIN: Yeah.

KYLE: If I asked if I was gay. Uh-

CALVIN: I, I said, "Why are you gay?" And that gave you the opportunity to answer how you chose [00:07:00] to. And I think you said, "Who says I am gay?"

KYLE: No, I took a screenshot and sent it to Gary. I said, "Who is this guy?"

GARY: But, uh, when, uh- He sent me the clip-

KYLE: Yeah ...

GARY: and I didn't even laugh.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: Okay. Like full disclosure.

KYLE: But-

GARY: Didn't laugh.

KYLE: Yeah

GARY: So you did misread me to some degree. Uh, only because, um- Like, people send me videos, and those are the kind of stuff that Kyle sends me, or Matt Keane or somebody else will send me these weird clips.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: And like, I just don't, I don't scroll through reels.

I don't- Your

KYLE: humor- Some- Your humor,

GARY: though, is- I have d- do I have humor, though? Yeah, yeah. Do I even have a sense of humor? It's weird.

KYLE: Usually it's at your own jokes. Those are really funny. And- Or really dark. Really dark. Really dark. Or other people suffering, you seem to really enjoy that. Yeah,

GARY: especially those that are closest to me.

KYLE: Okay.

CALVIN: I like this. You know, this is a... I do sit on a board, couple boards, and I wonder- Is

KYLE: that a big deal? This could be a problem.

CALVIN: No, I don't think

KYLE: so. Nobody listens to this podcast.

CALVIN: You know what? It's only Dutch

KYLE: Reformed people. But

CALVIN: you're the first

GARY: non-Dutch Reformed listener that we have.

KYLE: Well, I did find it was [00:08:00] interesting- Yeah

'cause you, I, I asked you, like, "Why do you listen?" And it was basically for educational purposes. Yeah. To understand your colleagues more. You don't even, like, find it that entertaining. You're just like, "I just understand the people I work with more now." How do

GARY: these people

CALVIN: think? No, I chuckle, um, when I can hear 'em.

When I can hear you guys, I chuckle. No, you guys are very funny. The banter's good. This is a good podcast, but it, it is to learn. And actually, I went on a hike with a Dutch Re- or a guy who's still into Dutch Reformed, and I just said, "Hey."

KYLE: Still into it? It's

CALVIN: like a thing? Yes. And I was like, uh- Some of the hikers- Yeah, sorry

are so

KYLE: fucking psychotic about Dutch Reformed.

CALVIN: And I said to him, um, you know, "Do you have, like, a connection to the motherland, Holland? Is that at all part of community, or is it just, like, Dutch Reformed?" And he's like, "Just Dutch Reformed." And I said, "So any Dutch Reformed in North America?" He goes, "Yeah, those are my people."

I said, "Very interesting. There's absolutely no connection to the other country?" It's not true, by the

GARY: way. That

KYLE: part- For, for him, maybe there was ... yeah, no, that's not true, though. But they're like, "I mean, I'm straight off the boat."

CALVIN: Yeah. "

KYLE: And there's partnerships with the p- the, the congregations out there. So my dad got called to be a pastor here- Ooh

because from some of the same denominations." Yeah.

GARY: Do you realize that many Dutch Reformed churches would consider other [00:09:00] ones heretical?

CALVIN: Yeah. Okay, you do get that. I'm aware of that, yeah. Okay. It, it, it's like the Catholic Church. There's no salvation outside the church. I don't... I imagine they t- the, the e- Evangelical church is a major offense to the Dutch Reformed.

GARY: Yeah. Uh, not everybody. Okay. You don't wanna paint... You couldn't paint with such a broad- Fair enough. Yeah ... extent, but-

CALVIN: Yeah, yeah ...

GARY: there'd be parts of it, swaths of it that-

KYLE: There is, yeah, there is, there is a lot of... Yeah. It's interesting you say that, 'cause I had, uh, um, someone, uh, come to a Dutch Reformed church with me, um, when I still attended there myself as well, and, uh, he, he actually pre- appreciated the preaching, but he said everything else, he goes, "Is very Catholic."

GARY: Yeah, but some people, like my wife would be a great example And I'm not allowed to speak for her normally, but I will t- make an exception here. Um, she would... She grew up Anglican.

CALVIN: Mm-hmm.

GARY: And she really appreciates things that are traditional and- Liturgical ... liturgical.

CALVIN: Yeah.

GARY: And so actually our church that we go to now in Chilliwack has shifted to be a lot more liturgical than when I first started coming.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: People that are there recently wouldn't know that, but like, you know, I've been there for... since 2011.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: And so just, it's a combination of the [00:10:00] people that are on staff and the people- But- ... that lead the services.

KYLE: I think it's more in the experience of like, I remember being, uh... driving to Alberta on a, on Christmas Day one time.

We stayed overnight in Jasper and put on the TV, and they had Catholic mass going. So there's a guy up front in all black talking in a funny voice. Uh, like his voice is going up and down, and like it's really quiet, and there's lots of like, um, forms that are being read, and I could see how that's v- that's very similar to a lot of Dutch Reformed churches.

Like, and so in ex- It's like it's quiet inside a Catholic mass. Like it's like it's very... I think it's a ton of similarities.

CALVIN: Yeah. Solemn. It's, it's amongst young men, the fastest growing is in the Catholic Church and Orthodox Church.

KYLE: Yeah.

CALVIN: They crave like the uniform. They crave the seriousness of it and, um, the liturgical aspect of it.

KYLE: Yeah.

CALVIN: Yeah.

KYLE: It's interesting you say that, 'cause I actually got some listener feedback recently, and he said, "I have a theory. The type of people who become Reformed rather than who are born in it seem to have a lot of the same [00:11:00] characteristics. Either radical conversion, life change, or broken or soft upbringing without a lot of structure and did not grow up Christian.

I'm interested in finding out if this is the case." And I actually know a bunch of guys that became Christians from homes where there was almost l- very little structure at all- Mm-hmm ... or no structure, and they are very much attracted towards the Catholic Church, uh, some of the Dutch Reformed churches because of the structure it gives them, and that gives them a security that they didn't necessarily grow up with.

And you also have the reverse like me, where I'm like, "Structure?"

CALVIN: Mm-hmm. "

KYLE: Piss on that." Like-

CALVIN: Yeah ...

KYLE: I don't want it. Um, which is... You can go extreme too, of course.

CALVIN: Yeah. Fair enough. W- do you guys wanna say where you go to church?

KYLE: Central?

GARY: Yeah, you should tell us where, where we, where you go.

CALVIN: I go first? Okay. Yeah.

Grace Community Church in Pitt Meadows. It's an evangelical free church, which is a big umbrella.

GARY: Big denomination.

CALVIN: Yeah. Uh, but it, I mean, you can have anything from, it's very similar to Anglicanism into it to, uh, close to Pentecostal. Like, it, it doesn't [00:12:00] define the-

GARY: Do you live in Pitt Meadows?

CALVIN: I live in Port Coquitlam.

GARY: Okay.

CALVIN: Yeah. And so I go there. I'm actually an elder there, so another reason not to make too many bad jokes. Um, but it- You're an

KYLE: elder?

CALVIN: I'm an elder, yeah.

KYLE: So you're a pretty, pretty important guy then.

CALVIN: A pretty... Yeah. No, I'm a pretty exciting guy. But, uh, did you say boring guy?

KYLE: Important.

CALVIN: Oh, important. No, I'm not a big deal.

I'm actually the reluctant leader. If we get into that, the, every time I took on a leadership role was through being reluctant, but, uh, either forced into it or talked into it. Mm. But now I embrace it.

GARY: What does forced into it mean?

CALVIN: Uh, well, to become an elder, I walked with the chairman of the board around Lafarge Lake in Coquitlam, and by the end of it, he said, "You're an elder.

I don't care if you want to or not, we need your help." I said, "Understood." So a sense of duty had me join the elder board. I said I wasn't ready. He said, "Nobody's ever ready, but we need you, Calvin." It was at a tough time around COVID, and churches were splitting left, right, and center- Mm-hmm ... over masks and vaxes and all that sort of stuff.

KYLE: Yeah. You a big mask guy or not?

CALVIN: No.

KYLE: No.

CALVIN: Um, it's [00:13:00] a- Big vax guy? ... I have a medical exemption. No, I have a medical exemption.

GARY: You have a beard exemption.

CALVIN: Yes, beard ex- No, I will not do those things. Even at, my wife and I made a decision, even, even if we were gonna lose it all, our assets, we were willing to do it, and we have a little school bus we'd turn into a motor home.

We said we'll live in that and we'll go off the land. And I've seen,

GARY: I've, he, I've seen him live in it per with my own two eyes-

CALVIN: Yeah ... in the

GARY: last two weeks. He's gone even more crunchy. For a while.

CALVIN: What do you mean? Like live in the motor home?

KYLE: Yeah.

CALVIN: Well, like let's say I- Like you went

KYLE: camping, or you, like-

CALVIN: Well, I use it for-

I mean the last couple weeks ... I use it for camping. Yeah. Oh. He saw me, uh, pull up to a parking lot and meet with him, but, um, no, I, uh, I camp in it. It's a camping machine.

GARY: Sweet.

CALVIN: Yeah.

GARY: Okay. Okay, interesting. Interesting. I mean, yeah, I don't know if we don't need to get into the, that, those weeds, but- Yeah ... the Christian liberties combined with, uh, being gracious and caring to others and how, what it means- Yeah

to be Christ-like in a, in an environment where everybody's radicalized, it's, I, I find it quite interesting. Yeah. 'Cause I was in leadership as well during that period at church. I

CALVIN: know.

GARY: And I also felt [00:14:00] completely unqualified, so.

CALVIN: Well, you know, it, all those vaccines, uh, uh, the one that wasn't on the market was called the Novax, but every other one of them had the traces of the dead fetal tissue matter in it.

So it could be a conscience thing. You're saying, "I don't wanna take it because it contains the tissue of a aborted fetus," right? If you wanted to do a religious exemption. Um, but others will say, "Well, it's not loving or caring to, to, uh, not take it for your elderly people in your church." But the efficacy was so low, it was like 2%, so the, the difference was literally like maybe a couple months of heightened immunity, and that actually goes into a deficit.

But this is, uh, uh, this is not the place for it, and I am not suicidal. Sorry.

GARY: I did not kill myself. Yeah.

CALVIN: And there,

KYLE: and

GARY: I- I'm definitely gonna have to say that a lot pretty soon here-

KYLE: Yeah ... with

GARY: Care

KYLE: Canada the way it's going.

GARY: Yeah. Like, uh-

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: Oh man, that reminds me. Last week I didn't record. I was gonna be here, but I was, uh, I took my son to the doctor.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: [00:15:00] And while we're at the doctor, he's like If they bring up MAID- ... if they bring up euthanasia, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm, we're running from here, Dad. They're not gonna do it to us. Yeah. I'm like, "No, you're not that sick. Like, you're fine." That's the first thing I texted

KYLE: Gary when he said he couldn't make it.

It was just pretty cute. I'm like, "I'm surprised they have enough people yet."

GARY: No, they literally, he brought it up, right? Yeah. He had a teacher at school, uh, last year, I think it was a Bible teacher, that took him to a pro-life event in our community. Mm-hmm. And they just did an amazing job of telling these kids that doctors are out to kill you.

Yeah. Well, no, it was just the idea of- Yeah ... like explained it so well about the idea of, "Hey, we're Christians. Uh, from a, you know, we, we care for people." Mm-hmm. And Christians do care for people better than anybody. They obviously sometimes fail at that. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But, um, I was just impressed with the level that a 12-year-old could communicate, uh, what MAID is about-

KYLE: Mm.

GARY: Um, how it's cre- Yeah ... how it's crept in and, and it's connected to everything else, right? It's-

KYLE: Yeah. Well-

GARY: It's interesting that it's the same camp that would be obviously extremely, uh, pro-abortion. They're also-

KYLE: Yeah ...

GARY: as a general-

KYLE: I told Noah he can come on, so.

GARY: He asked if he could come on this week. Yeah. I said, [00:16:00] "We have a, we have another guest."

Yeah. Both meatheads, but this one's older, so we'll take him first.

KYLE: Yeah. We've both had an emergency room experience this week though, 'cause I had it on, uh, this past weekend. I went golfing with my five-year-old.

CALVIN: Yeah.

KYLE: And he was doing really well. It went to a par three course. He was getting a five on every hole.

Mm. Um, and, uh, but we get to hole seven, and his ball, ball goes in the bushes, and so we go look for it, and he finds it, so he's still, still in there trying to grab it, and all of a sudden he starts freaking out. And so I go in there and there's, like, wasps, like, a ton of wasps around him. Yeah. He's getting stung like mad, so I get in there, I g- get start getting stung.

And he's just, like, sobbing and screaming and so we try to get in the car, but there's, um, wasps around there still, so I move the car out of the way without him and hop in, and all of a sudden he starts freaking out again. They're in his shorts.

CALVIN: Oh, no.

KYLE: And so anyways, we, uh, we went home, and then, uh, we were home for a bit, but then he started getting super puffy everywhere in his face and his l- uh, legs, and so we took him to emerge and he had to get monitored for a couple hours, but he was okay.

CALVIN: Yeah. Chilliwack Emergency is fast. I took a guy there after he- Oh, really? Yeah. He took 90... He dropped a 95-pound- It can get

KYLE: worse than that?

CALVIN: Yeah. I was, [00:17:00] uh, eight hours with my daughter at our Port Moody hospital, eight hours just to see the doctor. And then I, I, a week later I took a guy from the gym who dropped a 95-pound dumbbell on his toe, and I had to wait with him till the nurse took him.

I was there for 15 minutes.

KYLE: You work out?

CALVIN: I work out. Can't be helped.

KYLE: I was struggling.

CALVIN: So, yeah. No, every morning I go before work. That's impressive. That's the goal. Yeah.

GARY: That's impressive.

KYLE: I know. You should have heard about what Gary said about people that go to the gym a couple

CALVIN: weeks ago. I think I might have heard it, but he doesn't mean it.

KYLE: Um-

CALVIN: Unless it was good

KYLE: Yeah.

CALVIN: Okay.

KYLE: I was gonna say something but I forgot.

CALVIN: Oh, sorry, I cut you off.

GARY: More people should exercise, less people should talk about how much they exercise.

KYLE: Yes.

CALVIN: Yeah.

KYLE: 100%.

CALVIN: You drew it out of me. Sorry, I'm joking around. Uh, no, it's true. Like, how do you know somebody can, uh, bench press 225 pounds?

Don't worry, they'll tell you, right?

KYLE: All right.

CALVIN: The PR is supposed to be, like, personal, uh, be- or PB, personal best. I call it public best. Everyone needs to hear-

KYLE: Yeah ...

CALVIN: about what I can do. So

KYLE: what do you can- what, what about you? What's your number? [00:18:00]

CALVIN: Um, oh, really? Okay. For, like, bench press?

KYLE: Yeah.

CALVIN: Uh, 240- 255 one rep max, and then deadlift is 415, and then squat is 315.

That's insane. Yeah.

So, sorry for that.

KYLE: What do you wanna know about coaching? You asked about coaching earlier.

CALVIN: Oh, well, I mean, I've done... It's wild. I've done coaching and I've done, uh, counseling. So, uh, there's a guy named Josh Tegetertsz. He has Bowline Mental Health Solutions, and they do adventure therapy, so I did some stuff with him.

KYLE: Bowline?

CALVIN: Bowline,

KYLE: yeah. Oh, no.

CALVIN: And we

KYLE: were on- I thought you said bovine. I was like, "Wow, this is real interesting."

CALVIN: Yeah, no.

KYLE: Perfect with a briefcase in the barn. With

CALVIN: Bowline. No, Bowline. B-O-W-L- No wonder he doesn't wanna get

KYLE: the shot, right?

CALVIN: Yeah. And, uh, we're in a kayak and he's talking me through the, through these things, and I-

KYLE: You're...

Whoa.

CALVIN: Whoa.

KYLE: You're coaching with your-

CALVIN: Yeah.

KYLE: You're, you're getting, you're kayaking with your coach?

CALVIN: Correct. Yeah, yeah.

KYLE: That's, that's where you guys do it? With

CALVIN: a counselor, yeah. So you can do a hike or a kayak. It's adventure therapy- Oh ... covered by your benefits if you have it.

KYLE: Okay.

CALVIN: Um, I'm an employee, so I do.

KYLE: Anybody wanna [00:19:00] go golfing?

CALVIN: Yeah. And get coached? He, he will do golfing also.

KYLE: I'll do adventure therapy with you.

CALVIN: Yeah. Boom. Look at that. That's a new thing to do. Uh-

KYLE: It's gonna be an expensive round of golf, though.

CALVIN: But I, they, they tell me things, I'm like, "Man, I know all this," but unless I'm forced to sit down and remember these things, I'd never do 'em.

Like, there's just a hum always in my head, stress builds up, and then a coach can take you out of it, off to the sidelines, remind you of the tools you have, and then you use 'em. But people think, "Oh, I've already coached on this." It's like, just do it again because you're gonna get stuck in that rut, and right now it's, I'm in the season of rut, for sure.

KYLE: So l- uh, who was this, how did you get connected with this coach, and what was their format, and how long was the program and...?

CALVIN: So he's not, well, he's not a coach. He's a counselor, like a psychologist, and- Oh,

KYLE: okay ...

CALVIN: he, he came and did a presentation for, uh, myself and at the time I was, I was the general manager of KGH and the director of construction, about putting something together for our teams.

And then I said, "You know what? I'm gonna give it a try." And then, uh, I absolutely loved it. Uh, as for [00:20:00] coaching, I did it with a gal named Tara Landez, and I've been, she's been, we've been together where I worked previously. She's very sober. I'm like, "Well, if I-" That's good. Yeah. "If I do that it'll hurt their feelings."

She's like, "Who cares?" I'm like, "Really?" "Yeah, just it's business." I'm like, "Great." She can really focus you on just business is business.

KYLE: So would she be telling you her opinion on things and-

CALVIN: Yeah. I could ask for her to go through a scenario with me, or she'll remind me of some tools.

KYLE: Okay. Um-

CALVIN: It's just

KYLE: an hourly basis?

CALVIN: Yeah.

KYLE: All right.

CALVIN: Yeah, but I'm gonna try this new coach.

KYLE: Kyle.

CALVIN: Nice. I'm gonna give him a go.

KYLE: Apparently he's pretty good.

CALVIN: Yeah. He's really good.

KYLE: I mean, yeah, there's, there's so many different philosophies out there on it, but I, I always like to really clarify that. Coaches have all the answers. Yeah. Sorry.

Consultants have all the answers. Coaches have all the questions.

CALVIN: Yeah,

KYLE: to draw it out. And that, yeah, and the approach of, of not, you know, giving your opinions and, and giving direction actually makes the change last way after the coach is gone because it comes from withi- Yeah ... a belief that comes from within rather than, you know, [00:21:00] an external thing that you feel like you're supposed to be doing.

Yeah. 'Cause as soon as you do that you're gonna quit. For sure. So.

CALVIN: I mean, that's me. Yeah.

KYLE: Great podcast, guys

CALVIN: Yeah. This is the opening podcast I, I

KYLE: thought you said you were gonna be funny. You said this guy was funny.

CALVIN: Well, I am

GARY: funny. He's funny looking.

CALVIN: No. I mean, I can be funny. I'll say some funny stuff, but, uh-

GARY: No, don't be. Okay. Don't be. Anytime- No, but don't be inappropriate ... uh, whenever, whenever I think about you- What do you think of pizza?

Like- ... I always come to the same conclusion.

KYLE: Yeah ...

GARY: that most of the humor, unfortunately, and I'm gonna put you in the same camp- Yeah, yeah ... without knowing you really well-

CALVIN: Okay ...

GARY: is that most of our humor is- Is- ... is inappropriate.

CALVIN: Yeah, yeah. I, I- What? ... only do appropriate humor. You could listen to Ben Bankas on YouTube, uh, the stand-up comedian.

No. No. Okay. Is he inappropriate?

GARY: I don't think so.

CALVIN: Okay. Good to know. Uh, what was your question?

GARY: I don't even know Ben Bankas.

CALVIN: Oh, you don't know- No ... him? Okay. Well, don't Google him. Um, he's, he's a really... He'll make you chuckle. Yep.

GARY: Oh, he's the really crass guy.

CALVIN: Yes.

GARY: Okay.

CALVIN: Yeah, yeah.

GARY: Really harsh.

CALVIN: He's really harsh and, but he builds an audience.

People laugh. [00:22:00] But yeah,

GARY: I don't- I think people are longing. We live in such a, um, pretentious and, um, virtue signaling world-

CALVIN: Mm-hmm ...

GARY: that unfortunately The answer to that is being absurdly harsh and honest-

CALVIN: Yeah ...

GARY: and inappropriate. You know what I mean? Do you feel that or not?

CALVIN: Yeah, I mean, it's what wins, right?

Trump, uh, Doug Ford, he was the mayor of Toronto. Yeah. Um-

GARY: Rob.

CALVIN: Rob Ford. No, was it Rob Ford was- Rob was the mayor of

GARY: Toronto. Yeah. Doug's

CALVIN: the premier. Yeah. It, it, yeah, it, it wins because people are like, that's a voice that's willing to speak up, not fearing for any ties they have now, 'cause you can get- 'Cause you

GARY: blow everything.

CALVIN: You could, yeah. You blow everything up. Yeah, especially if you go back and apologize later. But people like it, and they're like, "Oh, I, I wish I could say stuff like that." I don't say I agree everything with Ben Bankus, but he does make me laugh for-

GARY: Yeah ...

CALVIN: toilet humor. What was your question?

KYLE: I don't have a

CALVIN: question.

You were asking me something. Did you, about something about pizza? Or... No, never mind.

KYLE: Pizza Gate?

CALVIN: Yeah. Is [00:23:00] that what you were asking me?

KYLE: No.

CALVIN: Okay, okay.

KYLE: What's your folder you have in front of you?

CALVIN: Oh, I brought my Spiro folder 'cause I didn't know if we would, uh-

KYLE: What's Spiro?

CALVIN: Spiro. Okay, thank you. Okay. Oh,

KYLE: this guy's ready.

CALVIN: Yeah.

KYLE: This is a plug, guys.

CALVIN: So Spiro is the f- uh, learning platform. So Spiro Learning is the charity in which the majority of our profits from the group of companies I work for goes into. So I work for the Westereng family, um, Nick and Dick, and they have 11 businesses, and of those businesses they have, it's like a, it's like dooca-dooc, it's all re- prerecorded.

But of those 11 businesses- ... they, they have a mandate that they give minimum 10%, maximum 90% of their profits into the, their f- primary foundation Westbow Gives Back, and from there they dole out for different projects. So they've previously built 15 physical schools, and there was a time when, uh, Nick and his wife and kids were [00:24:00] at, uh, their school that he had built in Guatemala, and it's the best performing school in the region.

And then Nick whispered to his wife, he said, "If we lived here, would we attend this school? Would our kids go here?" And she said, "No." He's like, "Then I don't know what we're doing." Our last school that we built, a massive high school, uh, in, in, uh, Siaya, Kenya. I've been to it. It's ready to go. We can't fill it.

We, we didn't fill it because the m- funding model changed that on day one it would be at a financial loss. So the Kenyan government, uh, was not gonna put in what they agreed to put in it, so it didn't cashflow. And so it just goes to show, like, it's not about the building, it's about the education. So Speero is where the primary focus goes.

KYLE: So it's an online education thing?

CALVIN: Uh, yeah, digital... Exactly. Online education. And Speero is a curriculum platform. Um, we have some of our own curriculum, but any curriculum can be put into it, and then the back end allows you to mix it for the different regions. So something in Ontario could be mixed for BC, uh, for [00:25:00] Kenya, for Guatemala, uh, and all that.

So our primary focus right now is English-speaking Africa and Latin America. My- And

KYLE: what you... And what's the education like? It's, like, K to 12 edu- education or above that or?

CALVIN: K to 12 is available. So this platform is unique because it's asynchronous, which means you go at your own pace. So Heritage Christian Online School, HCOS.

Great school. Amazing school, right? So we're partnered with them. So, so West Bow Gives Back is, is the funding, and then you have HCOS, which had a platform called StudyForge, and they donated it to Speero. And then, um- Uh, ACSI, Association of Christian Schools International, is our good paper. That's the one that gives us accreditation everywhere we are

GARY: That's who our school's with.

Your school's probably with ACSI.

CALVIN: We are, yeah.

GARY: Mm-hmm,

CALVIN: yeah.

GARY: There's two different governing bodies. The other one would be SBSBC, I think, which is where-

CALVIN: Yeah ...

GARY: Timothy is

KYLE: And so the idea is though that kids in Africa can now just go up on a laptop and g- get education?

CALVIN: Yeah. Or, or a tablet. Um, so it, it's- Oh,

KYLE: even a tablet?

CALVIN: [00:26:00] Yeah. It's, it's amazing. And, and the, uh-

GARY: How much does it cost to sign up through, through Speero for somebody in Uganda if a person wanted to do schooling through Speero?

CALVIN: So it depends on their situation. So if it's an international school, so l- like it's teaching to US or Canadian curriculum, that's a for-profit school.

Typically dip and lads kids will go there, business, uh, owners' kids will go there. Th- they'll have a... They'll, they'll pay, and they'll meet with our sales gal, um, Mar- Marcy. I hope it is, I said that right. So, or if it's a, like a, we have an AIDS orphanage that doesn't pay anything to participate in the program.

So if the, if they can pay, they pay, and if they can't pay, they don't pay.

GARY: Can people privately sign up in foreign countries for this? Like log into this website and register for school? Or do you have to be-

CALVIN: Not yet ...

GARY: an organization?

CALVIN: Y- it, ideally with an organization because we're a, a curriculum platform.

So the organization would then take control of putting the curriculum in, mixing it up, and having it ready for the kids. We're not ready yet where we [00:27:00] can just go straight to consumer. That'd be

GARY: really cool.

CALVIN: And it's on our goals. That's a great idea. Yeah. Um, what I like about Speero is, let's say a remote town in Guatemala, they, they have reliable power, but they don't have a school building, it doesn't matter.

We can get, uh, Starlink there, uh, community center, police station, uh, church building. You get a cabinet that the tablets go in and they charge overnight. It locks, keeps the stuff secure. And they come to

GARY: school there in the morning.

CALVIN: Open it up, and they do all their stuff and put it back. And because it's asynchronous, if they're struggling with a subject, they can, uh, ask somebody for help.

I believe it'll be online unless they have a resource.

KYLE: What does asynchronous mean?

CALVIN: Uh, you go at your own pace. Oh, okay. So synchronous is you follow the teacher.

KYLE: Okay.

CALVIN: And asynchronous, you go at your own pace. Oh, okay. And, and that's the model of hCOES, which I think they have 98% honor roll. Because if somebody struggles with math, they're not forced to do it in three weeks, they can take their six weeks to do it.

And if they're really good at something, they can just zoom through it. I, I am the byproduct of following along with [00:28:00] synchronous education, getting left behind and given up. This

GARY: is

CALVIN: an

GARY: astre. Yeah. This is

CALVIN: an astre. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I'm, uh, I'm actually the chairman of my school board. Private school, I won't say which school, but, uh, I, I didn't even graduate high school.

GARY: Hmm.

CALVIN: And, um-

GARY: Oh, I love it. That is awesome ... yeah, I barely graduated, too. Yeah. That is awesome. I barely graduated- Yeah ... by the grace of God and some patient, uh, teachers and my mother. Yeah. It's the only reason I graduated. Cool.

KYLE: If, uh, people wanna find out more information, what's the website?

CALVIN: Um, spirallearning.org, I believe.

GARY: I- Is it under the Westbow Gives Back banner?

CALVIN: Yeah.

GARY: Okay. Yeah. So they'd find it on there. This'll- this

CALVIN: is our primary target right now.

GARY: Oh, it is?

CALVIN: Um, and I'm very excited about it. I have a great spiel. Actually-

GARY: Why are you- Yeah ... so passionate about that? 'Cause obviously Westbow gives to a lot of things. Yeah.

Why are you-

CALVIN: Why this in particular?

GARY: Yeah. 'Cause you barely graduated?

CALVIN: Well, I barely graduated. Well, I've seen the, the impact of education. So I, I thank you for giving me this beautiful softball question. So- ... uh, I, I love history, and one of the things I learned in history is that when education thrives, societies thrive.

So King [00:29:00] Alfred is a fellow, he was a English king. He shouldn't have been the king. He was, I believe, fourth in the line. So instead of training to be a possible king, he just accompanied his father everywhere, and I think it was King Æthelwulf. And he got to- What

GARY: years is this in?

CALVIN: This would've been around, like, 936, 950.

Okay. Um, and he, he got to see his father's love for the people, his care for the people, and making sure taxes were collected fairly both ways, and he had a heart for his people. But at the time, England was getting ransacked by Vikings, and so he's famous in that he was able to ward them off. But one of the first things he did when he, he did was he established a military program, so they had full-time soldiers, and they put up these wooden walls at, uh, and, and units that could move quickly.

And once he brought stability, he brought in education. So he created curriculum. He translated books and even the Bible himself, portions of it. And he r- he rolled out a curriculum. And his son went on to become the King of England because they created such an orderly society. Uh, crime was [00:30:00] down. There was no more bandits robbing you between towns.

KYLE: Hmm.

CALVIN: St. Patrick-

KYLE: That's why I'm against, like, open borders, because you, as soon as you get a lawless society, you, everything else falls apart, too.

CALVIN: Correct. Yeah. A border is a, is inside this we use our money to make this better, and if you invite everybody inside there who hasn't paid, you just water it down.

KYLE: No, or it's just like a home. Yeah. Like, you invite, uh, one person to your home, you can maybe, you know, be able to serve them well. If you invite 50 people, you're not gonna have a home.

CALVIN: Correct, yeah. And then, and then you get, uh- Education drops, plummets, and all of a sudden now you go to violence because when you...

In our society, we plan for 50 years, 100 years, because we can. I mean, I don't need to worry about my carpet in 90 years. No, I think in our society

KYLE: we plan for the next election.

CALVIN: Well-

KYLE: The politicians do anyway.

CALVIN: No,

GARY: fair enough. Chi- China's- We still plan really far out compared to most countries. Most countries, uh, most people are literally just wondering how they're gonna eat their next meal.

CALVIN: Correct. It- so it's like three-hour window of thinking. Yeah. It's very violent and aggressive because you have to be. Uh, you don't care about your RSP. You don't even have one, so you're gonna take things by force [00:31:00] if you need to. And then, uh, St. Patrick, we'll tell you his story real quick. Yeah. I know you've all heard of St.

Patrick's Day.

KYLE: I, I like what you said about this king right here, though, that he, like, stayed with his dad most of the time and followed him around. Yeah. I think that's, like, some of the best education boys can get is like- Oh, yeah ... being with their dad and seeing them, like, con- like, over a long period of time.

That's when you learn so, so much versus- Yeah ... versus just an education system, and, uh, also more, way more life skills than just, you know, the, the, the small amount of things you learn in school.

CALVIN: Yeah.

GARY: King Patrick. Was Patrick a

CALVIN: king? St. Patrick. St. Patrick, sorry. No, no, St. Patrick, yeah. Um-

KYLE: The green guy?

CALVIN: Yeah.

No, well, that's the thing, he's not a green guy. But I'll press pause on that real quick because you had a guy on here who sells the wood, and he has a family business.

KYLE: Rocky.

CALVIN: Rocky.

KYLE: Beauty.

CALVIN: And, and his kids are gonna... When people meet them when they're like 11, they're like, "Man, this is gonna be a leader of leaders."

Like, he has all the qualities. Every silly mistake he would make at a recess or something goofy with his friends, he avoids. And so I find it, uh, quite impressive. And then, and, and there's this book called [00:32:00] Durable Trades, which talks about family businesses, and it just creates such unique people.

Chilliwack has a lot of it.

KYLE: Yeah.

CALVIN: Um, okay.

KYLE: Also really, can also create really unhealthy people if their family is unhealthy.

CALVIN: Correct.

GARY: To some degree. Yeah. But I guess even if I look at across, and I know many, many families where, hey, maybe, I mean, all of us fathers are struggling to some degree and obviously sh- shafting our kids in, in some different way.

We're not doing everything we can best. And I just think that ideal of, like, the stability and the teaching that happens while just walking alongside, or if I think of when I have my kid with me, how many questions he asks me.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: You know, which seem It obviously bothers them, to be really honest- Yeah

at some point when it's the 100th one in three hours.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: But yeah, they're learning. They're soaking it in, and they're, and it's f- it's formative, and it's not like Marie read a book a while ago, and I ca- I couldn't tell you what it was.

KYLE: That's tied to not necessarily, it- it's possible more b- if you own the family business, but-

GARY: No

KYLE: it's not specifically the

GARY: business. It's not about that. It'd just be more the idea- It's the time ... of, hey, you want, you don't want your kids to [00:33:00] be, um, peer influenced. You want them to be a- adult influenced.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: Um, because obviously if they're learning from the kid that's two or three years older, now granted, if that kid's an amazing Christian youth, that might be great, but a lot of times you really want 'em, you want 'em learning from somebody that's mature and wise- Yeah

and yours, right? So.

KYLE: Yeah. Uh, it's interesting. It reminds me of a Pastor Matt sermon a couple weeks ago where he said, you know, "If you're on Instagram for an hour a day or social media, and then you're reading a couple verses before you go to bed at, bed at night," like, and you're ex- What's gonna win

you're k- Yeah. What's gonna win? You expect to win, like, that war? Like, no. Like, it just math in, math out.

CALVIN: Yeah. Well, it's, uh, you follow the Holy Spirit or you follow the algorithm, right? And our kids right now are all being discipled by the algorithm.

KYLE: Yeah, that's right. We are. And

CALVIN: I'm not immune to it. I know that I've got uphill battles to- Yeah

to make it home too, but, um, yeah, the, the- Saint Patrick.

KYLE: Before I get- I wanna hear about Saint Patrick. Yeah. Before, let's talk about, uh, two things I wanna talk about. Yeah. First, a little, little plug. Yeah. Um, uh, a couple weeks ago we had, uh, um, Travis [00:34:00] on, and, uh, he owns Pristine with Levi Middlekoop. Um, uh, they're a company in Alberta, and they're looking for a sales guy- Yeah

to do sales for them. Yeah. So if there's anybody listening that would love to do some firearm sales, um, you can reach out to them, tell them you heard it here, or reach out to me and I can connect you.

CALVIN: Yeah.

KYLE: And the second thing is, I'm just, uh, looking for a guy to help me in my backyard do yard work. So if you're, you're a young guy, you got a truck, um, and you're, uh, willing to do some random yard work once in a while, hit me up.

And, uh, my nephew used to be able to do it, but he's in university now, so- All right ... looking for someone else. Anyways.

CALVIN: Okay.

KYLE: Saint Patrick.

CALVIN: Yeah, so Saint Patrick, he was a, uh, English nobleman. He was stolen by slave traders and then sold into Ireland, where he was a slave for 12 years. Brutal conditions, very uneducated, barbaric society.

GARY: What years was this?

CALVIN: This... Ooh, great question. Um-

GARY: I can check if you

CALVIN: don't want. Yeah, uh, see if it's- I'll check ... around, uh, it would've been around maybe the 1100s or 1200s.

GARY: Okay.

CALVIN: Um, and [00:35:00] he basically one day, God told him a route to walk to a port, and that there would be a ship waiting for him, so he followed that route.

He had to be secretive, because at any point he could've been snatched and sold back for a premium 'cause he was a runaway slave. And he got to the ship and they said, "No I'm paraphrasing it here, but then they said, "Actually, we did our math. We need one more guy. Get on board." So he went back to England, returned to his family who thought he was dead, and then he resumed his nobleman life.

And that's like lotions and spices, means he can sit back, just, uh, rub lotion and spice all over his chest. Just, it's like a way of saying, like, luxury. He doesn't have to lift a finger. And God said, "You gotta go back to Ireland." And so he went back to Ireland, I don't believe under the blessing of the Catholic Church.

He self-appointed himself as a bishop and focused on education. Education then flourished in Ireland and brought about a very, uh, or- organized society that was not prone to violent, and I [00:36:00] believe they did away with slavery. Um, he didn't see it all the way to the end. He, he set up his schools and then that was, he passed on, but then Europe fell into barbarianism, and you know who went out and educated them was the Irish.

So his, he, he basically was an ambassador for education, and it was like a flame that they kept safe in Ireland, this far island, and it returned back and brought, uh, Europe back to, I guess, uh, what's the opposite of- Yeah ... barbarianism? Organized? Yeah.

KYLE: So he actually lived the same time as Augustine. Um, he was born in 385, St.

Patrick.

CALVIN: Oh, that's embarrassing.

KYLE: Um- It

GARY: doesn't matter. It's a very interesting story.

KYLE: And at about 16 years old, the Irish raiders captured him and took him to Ireland as a slave where he worked for six years, and he escaped ca- accepti- captiv- captivity and returned to his family in Britain, later studying for the priesthood.

And then in 432, he returned to Ireland as a bishop to convert- Mm-hmm ... the Irish people and establish churches and schools.

CALVIN: Yeah.

KYLE: And Augustine was born in 354, died in 430, so it's- Okay ... quite interesting they're in the same time.

CALVIN: Not bad for off the top of the dome, though. That's awesome. Yeah. [00:37:00] And so it's, it's just education changes societies, and what I find very interesting about that is Well, uh, uh, g- for an example, have you guys ever seen the maps of the IQ maps around the world?

KYLE: No.

CALVIN: No. If you Google it, like IQ map, and it gives you the average IQ of each country, and it's not very friendly to Africa, uh, Latin America, or the Middle East.

KYLE: Yeah.

CALVIN: And it's often touted as, like, it has to do with race, but it's not, it, it's not, it doesn't have to do with race. It has to do with the education available in the area.

And so the lack of education will bring the IQ down because you don't care about how many circles fit inside a square when you don't know if you're gonna eat or if the well's gonna work the next day. And so when education all of a sudden can flourish, you'll start to see these numbers rise, and as a whole, the world will become better.

[00:38:00] People won't be fleeing Morocco to go to Spain because they'll have industry in their country, they'll have agriculture in their country, and they'll have less violence, right?

KYLE: Yeah.

CALVIN: And I, uh, I would- I

KYLE: mean, i- if you look at all the big schools like Harvard, Oxford, Cambridge- They're all Christian ... all have Christian origins because it, and, and missionaries throughout the ages have gone there first.

Also specifically because the Bible is a written text. Yeah. And, and it's so, it's, uh, so important for people to be able to, to, to read it. Um, and that was a big part of their motivation when they did the mission work is to- Yeah ... get them educated so people could read the Bible. Yeah. And now we c- now we have it, and most people don't read it.

CALVIN: Yeah.

GARY: Interestingly enough, one of the things that I just thought was interesting is that, I mean, I had n- knew nothing about St. Patrick, not a thing until today. Okay.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: Um, and why the shamrock? According to t- tradition, Patrick used the three-leaf shamrock to explain, explain the Christian doctrine of the Trinity.

KYLE: Yeah. Oh.

GARY: Um. Wow. There isn't solid historical evidence that he actually [00:39:00] used a shamrock.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: But, but the tradition carries on. But I guess where I'm going with this is very similar to those universities which have now swung to-

CALVIN: Yeah ...

GARY: you know, basically be pretty, uh, wacked out institutions in a lot of ways.

Yeah. Like, it's interesting how every Christian- holiday has basically been turned into some either commercialized gong show or a drunk fest of, uh, excuse to pound back booze. Correct. I don't know, I just thought it was-

CALVIN: It is, sorry ...

GARY: it's blasphemous.

CALVIN: Yeah, it is. Well, that's the thing is it's the only true religion, it's the only true faith is Christianity.

That's why it's the one that gets attacked the most. It's why we don't get on Google Calendars or your grocery store doesn't put a Jesus display. It'll be Santa or Easter Bunny, but they'll do,

GARY: uh- All kinds of other weird stuff- Yeah ... for every other holiday. Yeah.

CALVIN: A- and Christians are the OGs of education.

They've always... Well, actually, in particular, a book I read, um, was that Anglo-Saxon Protestantism is probably the biggest spreader [00:40:00] of Christian education and, uh, medical care around the world. So the, the, the Catholic Church did really well under Spain, but they were brutal, and often didn't allow their subjects to take communion, so there was a very clear divide of we are with the Lord and you are not, you are savages.

But Christian, uh, Protestants in particular would go in, and they'd go in with missionaries who would educate, who would bring healthcare, and they would bring in sanitation and change entire regions around And a lot of people claim, "Oh, no, those great scholars were Muslim." It was one of those cases was change your name to a Muslim name or be killed.

Uh, uh, and that was your choice. So then a lot of great scholars changed their names to Muslim name, and the Muslims claim them as their own. Mm. But if you go back to their birth names, they're Christian birth names. Not all of them, but the majority of them.

KYLE: Mm.

CALVIN: And so Chris- Christianity is the juggernaut that spreads, um, relig- or education.

Even ASL, the giving a voice to the, the deaf, is Christian.

KYLE: Mm.

CALVIN: Uh, [00:41:00] so it's- Crazy. Yeah. It, it's, it's, so Christianity and education go hand in hand.

KYLE: Well, it's, it's ser- it's actually service, right? You're like- Yeah ... you're sacrificing yourself for the good of the people around you, taking the time to educate, teach.

CALVIN: Yeah.

KYLE: It's interesting, though-

GARY: Sorry, go ahead.

KYLE: Like, and there's that, uh, famous book, I'm sure you've read it, George Orwell's book,

CALVIN: 1984.

KYLE: Yes. Which feared that, um, books would be banned.

CALVIN: Mm-hmm.

KYLE: But what's actually happening more is, um, Neil Postman's book, Brave New World-

CALVIN: Mm-hmm ...

KYLE: where he feared books wouldn't need banning because people would become too distracted and entertained to read them.

CALVIN: Yeah.

KYLE: And so I think especially in today, when we have the levels of e- education available to us- Mm ... and the books available to us- Yeah ... people just don't read them. That's actually, the lack of interest- Yeah ... is actually almost I f- I find, especially in Western culture-

GARY: Do you think

KYLE: that's true? Yeah.

CALVIN: Yeah, people don't read.

KYLE: People don't read. They're, like-

GARY: Do you listen or do you actually physically- Both ... pick up a book? Both. You do, do both? Yeah,

KYLE: yeah. I would challenge people, though. Buy a lockbox, put your phone in there for a couple days or in the evenings- And see how much you read, yeah ... every single evening and s- you'll start reading.

CALVIN: Yeah.

KYLE: Like, it, it's, [00:42:00] I mean, we got this, like, cocaine in our pocket and everyone's snorting every night.

CALVIN: Mm-hmm.

KYLE: Um, a few more reels, few more emails- Yes ... few more deals.

CALVIN: Well, d- you're, uh, buy an alarm clock, and then have your charger in the living room, and your phone goes to bed at 9:00, and then you actually build the discipline of not having a lockbox do it for you, but that's what I do.

And obviously I goof up sometimes, but that's the rule. And so I was in bed reading by 9:20 last night.

GARY: And you'll read a good hour at night, or?

CALVIN: I try. That's awesome. I fall asleep at 10:00, yeah.

GARY: It's so healthy for your- You also sleep way better- ... for your sleep way better if you read first ... Oh, for sure ... like, man, that knocks you out.

CALVIN: You don't get that blue light.

GARY: Yeah.

CALVIN: Um, you know, a- and there was a movie I just finished up called Rollerball. Same thing, books were illegal and then put into the AI, and then the original copy is deleted. I'm like, it, there seems to be a theme with doing away with the books 'cause, you know, Spider-Man had a movie- Whoa

where they removed the Twin Towers. Okay. Um, on the digital versions because it was offensive 'cause of 9/11. They removed Trump from Home Alone on the digital versions, and it's- Really? Yeah Well, hearsay. I haven't verified. I know Gary's big on like, [00:43:00] "Have you seen it yourself?" But I don't know.

GARY: Like, you go

CALVIN: and-

GARY: I definitely have not.

Yeah. No, I love it.

CALVIN: So

GARY: you- This, this is how, this is-

CALVIN: Yes. But

GARY: it's weird ... this is how people lose all credibility. Yeah.

CALVIN: It, it's like, uh, the man- the, the Mandela effect. You're like, "No, I could've sworn it said this." So if you have the original article, the book, you can clearly say like, "No, I've got the different-" Yeah.

If you've got it in hard

GARY: copy, yeah. Yeah.

CALVIN: And apparently Anthropic is buying up classic books, like one of ones or, you know, 10 of 10s, and then they, they have a, uh, they cut the, they cut it right on the spine, and then they scan everything, and they de- destroy the book, and now it lives in AI. But who's to say when all of a sudden now the AI companies want you to think a certain way?

KYLE: Oh, that's for sure- Yeah ... coming.

CALVIN: So

KYLE: you- Like, every- a- and it's there already. Like, it, it's gonna get pushed super hard. Like, yeah. Yeah. Having, I think, physical books-

CALVIN: Is very important.

KYLE: Yeah ... very, very important, 'cause stuff, a lot of information gets, gets removed.

CALVIN: Yeah. Um, and I was gonna say, the thing about education as well, I came up with this analogy, [00:44:00] and I hope it makes sense to you, but the, like, church groups, missionaries, non-government organizations go to Africa or even South America where there's a big need for help, and every single one of them can perceive differently what it is.

And so, uh, a guy lines up his rifle. He's looking through the scope, and he's got a deer, but there's some branches in the way. I don't know, you, you've all looked through a scope and seen it- Mm-hmm ... and you're like, "Where, where, where are the branches coming from?"

GARY: I can't even get a clear vision in a scope.

It's such a disaster.

CALVIN: Yeah. And then you- ... if you take that shot and it bounces off a branch, it can deflect the, the bullet well away from the target. And so-

KYLE: I deal with softballs mainly, but-

CALVIN: Yeah. And so those branches I think represent, like, oh, it's, it's water. 100%, we gotta give them water. Other ones, it's food.

W- other, it's housing, uh, transportation, and these are the things that they wanna do, and they bring the relief now. But when you finally got that deer and it's broadside and there's not a single obstruction and you take the shot, that perfect shot that drops the thing [00:45:00] and solves it, it's education. So it won't be- Not the

KYLE: gospel?

CALVIN: Sorry?

KYLE: Not the gospel?

CALVIN: No, the, um, Christian education. Let me say that. Uh, the gospel helps, 100%. The gospel's the only thing that saves. But for transforming society en masse- I would say Christian education. You're looking at me very concerned, but, uh, maybe I, I should justify this. Is that-

GARY: Ah, no, don't

CALVIN: backpedal.

Okay.

GARY: Don't backpedal. They, yeah. You're fine. You're so sure of yourself. Yeah. No- You don't ever need to apologize on

CALVIN: this podcast. Yeah, it is, it is Christian-

GARY: You're only sorry you got caught, right? Yeah. That's what

CALVIN: Gary would advise

KYLE: people.

GARY: Hey, if you're w- don't wa- You're only sorry-

CALVIN: Just commit ... you got caught.

Just commit. Yeah. No, I'm committed. It, it's Christian education, because it, it, it will change... You'll start to produce entrepreneurs, leaders, and managers, and they'll go in, and they'll start to build infrastructure to allow business, and then they're, the next round that comes through, all of a sudden they're gonna say, "I'm sorry, China, we don't need your money to build our bridges anymore.

We do it ourselves." Or they'll say, "Sorry, French multinational, we mine it ourselves." And they'll start to build their economies. And then, [00:46:00] "Sorry, corrupt politicians. You'll do the, uh, gurgle swing kicky thing off the bridge." No, I mean, you can go hard on, uh- But I

KYLE: think- Yeah ... you can educate people with a Christian, Christian education.

Yeah. It doesn't mean they're gonna act like Christians.

CALVIN: No. Well, I mean, that's the-

GARY: No, but here's the thing- Yeah ... Kyle. Everybody that, and it comes back to even in our own personal experience, most people get in trouble 'cause they don't They might even question it, but they never vocalize it.

KYLE: Mm-hmm.

GARY: My experience, I don't know what your experience is even on a- No, wait, you said most

KYLE: people get in trouble

GARY: because they, they won't question things or they just stay status quo.

KYLE: Mm-hmm. Okay.

GARY: And if people are educated or being educated and being enlightened, so to speak-

KYLE: Yeah ...

GARY: to some degree, or at least allowing... Like, why has the most, why has the trajectory of the, um, Western world or just the world in general been on a, you know, straight up for the last 100 years?

Why? Because all the superstitions and the things that were never allowed to be questioned finally in the 1900s and into the 2000s has been like, "Hey, that's gone," right?

KYLE: [00:47:00] Mm-hmm.

GARY: And in our world that we live in, that I grew up in, and I don't know how it is even on, in your world, but, like, I'll be at a board meeting or some type of meeting and I'll say something and I'll think I overspoke or I'll think I maybe asked too strongly, and I don't think I, I don't, I don't swear, I don't name call or anything derogatory, just ask a hard question or-

KYLE: Hmm

GARY: speak what his concern is. Now, granted, you can be too much like that and divisive and always trying to be the, the, the spoke in the wheel. That's not great on a board. But often people come up to you after a board meeting and be like, "Oh wow, I'm glad you said that," or th- you know.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: Won't even necessarily have your back in a meeting- Hmm

but it's like, you know, in that moment. And I think that

KYLE: aligns- But if you had all the education you had, but you didn't love Jesus and care about other people-

GARY: Yeah ...

KYLE: like, I, you have to have both. Like, it, it doesn't work with the one. Well,

GARY: of course, but I guess the, the point-

KYLE: No, I don't think, for, for a lot of people it's not "of course."

For a lot of people, they're just like, "Give me the great education. Give me all the stuff that gets me ahead, that I can have more," and it's not used actually to serve others and to give.

GARY: Yeah. I guess I would say, you know, the proof would be in the pudding. The person that is highly [00:48:00] educated, and I've seen it actually where it's, you know, people are, have all the knowledge in the world and all the things in the world, they're still empty.

Like, you will always be- Yeah. Mm-hmm ... void without the Lord.

KYLE: Yeah.

CALVIN: But it's true. I mean-

GARY: So ... the,

CALVIN: the, the AMG, uh, America's Mission to the, uh, it was originally Americans Missionary to Greece, and then it became, like, Advancing the Mission of the Gospel. They had a chair, or like a president, and, uh, Guatemala had mission drift.

It stepped away from spreading the gospel and was doing- Mm-hmm ... a little bit more than that. And he said, "We're not in the business of sending fat Guatemalan kids to hell." What he was saying, "I'm glad they're getting fed, but that's not what we're here for." Yeah. "We're here to give them the gospel."

KYLE: Yeah.

CALVIN: And so, uh, I understand mission drift is, is a problem, but if- I invite somebody to a church service in Kenya, but they either have to walk three hours or, you know, and three hours home, it, you're not, y- they likely won't come.

Mm-hmm. [00:49:00] And are you, uh, there's a belief of like, uh, your theology of whether you believe in predestination or not, or the, the elect. And I'd say you can see a society just ramp up and things get better. Now there's bus routes and there's paved roads, and it makes life easier to get to things. I think the gospel advances a lot easier in that case, as long as your nation doesn't get hijacked.

What we're looking at in North America and Europe is hijacked nations, where it's actually, um, great times had come, right? Great times make weak men, and weak men make hard times. Hard times are here, right? Mm. And I, I think it's a cycle that you maybe can't undo unless you're very protective about what you allow in your country or not.

And so what you're describing is a big topic right now is, uh, Christian nationalism. Yeah. Is you cannot force people to have a love for the Lord in your society, but your society would be Christian-based. And, uh, uh, I can see what you're saying. Christian education doesn't bring the true gospel, [00:50:00] but I'd say the gospel does the trick.

It is the only thing that saves, transforms. But how do they reach their neighbors? One of the best things is like, "Let me educate your kids so they can read and write, and I can help them get out of this mud hut with no power." Yeah. And that's why I believe education is that perfect shot that, that will change, uh, nations.

Like Spiro, all in all, is a digital platform that hosts curriculum, but I see it as a nation changer. Um- Mm ... and it's gonna ... I wrote it on a piece of note- piece of paper and folded it up for later is Spiro is inevitable. There's nothing else like it, and it's gonna transform the developing nations.

KYLE: I mean, it's obviously, uh, great to get people educated.

It, it is- Yeah ... very, very important. I mean, you c- you, you notice it, I think, even in, uh, in ch- in church settings where for years, um, you couldn't get information, um, or listen to sermons from other churches. And, uh, when the information age came out and people could read books and listen to podcasts, everything else like that, now people that have been in this, like, one little [00:51:00] bubble- Yeah

generations now are be able to be like, "Hey, there's... I can ask questions and learn, hear other sermons." Then you, the education actually gives them opportunity to ask more questions, to- Yeah ... like, fight back or whatever and say like, "Hey, this doesn't make sense." So yeah, I mean, it is, it is for sure, um, very important.

GARY: Yeah. 100%.

KYLE: Cool. Gary, what do you got? You got a few really important topics on your phone there apparently,

GARY: so. I haven't looked. I, uh, was qui- curious, Calvin, what would you say your giftings are?

CALVIN: Okay, great question.

GARY: Freedom sessions, one of the things we do, you have to come up with your strengths inventory.

Oh,

CALVIN: yeah. I heard that on the last one. You guys did pretty good. Although you w- really, uh, y- you didn't write- This

GARY: isn't about me right now. Okay. For- We're asking you what your strengths

CALVIN: are ... okay, my strengths.

KYLE: No, say that. Say, what was that?

CALVIN: Yeah, yeah. You, you didn't address it head-on, and everyone was, like, very this, this, this, and you're like, "Well, I've been told this.

I d-" I, I can't really remember, but I was like, "Oh, Gary, well done." You kind of skirted around that a bit, but you did get to what your giftings were. [00:52:00] You're not looking happy at me, so forgive me for saying that, but, um, uh- ... so my giftings. Okay, so I did a working genius. I'm good at wonder and discernment, and, and it's, it's true.

I can see risk a mile away, a- uh, whether there is risk or isn't risk present, and it's, even like when I had my daughter and we're at the hospital, I put her next to a column, but then I saw a phone with a cord on it. I said, "That thing could fall, hit her head," so I moved her over here. Hot coffee. And it's just, I always see risk, and it's, uh, it, it shows up in, uh, the businesses and organizations I've been a part of where they're like, "Well, what about this?"

I'm like, "Mm, don't. Don't do that, or do do it, but be aware that there's a very big risk at year two because of this." And they're like, "Oh, wow, good to know." Uh, I've been told, I did what Gary did, but, uh- ... I'm good at connecting with people. Um- I, uh, I have the ability to break down even some people in the most heated moments or in the saddest moments, I, I can connect really well with [00:53:00] people.

Um, I like to encourage people.

GARY: Why'd you ask, Gary? Um, because it's interesting. When I first, I didn't met you yet, hadn't did any sleuthing on what you look like- Yeah ... and then I met you, and I was like, okay, this guy is a combination of, like, is it Chuck Liddell from the UFC or- ... uh, that and a construction worker.

And so now, you know- Mm ... you're obviously not in the trenches now.

CALVIN: Yeah.

GARY: Do you feel like your giftings are in building or constructing or not specifically that, way more-

CALVIN: Yeah ...

GARY: the management of people?

CALVIN: Uh, I'm in, uh, in my current role, I struggle. Um, I fill out spreadsheets, and I'm updating how I predict work will fall over the next year.

I am no longer the director, so I have to make a lot of adjustments as directed and, and it's really tough for me. Um, and I'd say I don't know if it's in construction Um, I- 'Cause

GARY: that's what you were doing, right? Even before this- Yeah ... where you work now, right? You were in- In

CALVIN: construction since I [00:54:00] was 18.

Yeah. Okay. I've done high-rise construction. I painted for a bit.

GARY: Okay.

CALVIN: I did construction landscaping with a company in North Van. Um, and then I joined Westbow. So I- Yeah. Yeah. I... Maybe it's, maybe it's not my gifting. To be honest with you, I had, I went for a long walk Saturday, no phone, and just I did a little, a lot of talking to God, and then taking inventory, um, about all the things I've said yes to that I'm currently doing, and just trying to figure out where the stress was coming from.

And I realized, okay, it's maybe I need to reinvent myself. I have thought about that. And there's fear, obviously.

KYLE: You should definitely get a coach.

CALVIN: Yeah. I, I know a good coach. Kyle. You wanna hear... Okay. So, uh, Dick Westereng used to call me Kyle, and- I, uh, I had been off caffeine for, like, three years, and we were at this event, and I was drinking coffee.

And so the kind of the joke was Kyle was Caffeinated Calvin. It was, like, a character that came out, [00:55:00] and I got really excited, really in there. Now I'm fully caffeinated, so Kyle's always present. But- ... uh, he called me Kyle forever, and so, like-

KYLE: Where did Kyle from? He just had a name.

CALVIN: He just, I- Oh, he just

GARY: made a

CALVIN: mistake.

I mean- He just made a mistake ... he's not

GARY: that worried about names.

CALVIN: And I, and I never corrected him. Just whatever

GARY: you

CALVIN: do-

GARY: Yeah ... do it quickly.

CALVIN: Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, the-

GARY: Love the man. Yeah. Great, great influence in my life.

CALVIN: Oh, amazing man. Like, um- Yeah ... I love my dad. Uh, and he has, you know, areas where he could've improved.

But, like, when, when I look to Dick, I'm like, man, I just admire this guy because with that donation of their profits, if I put $100,000 in your hands, do whatever you want with it, most people, I'm, I don't, I think even myself-

GARY: Self, self, self ...

CALVIN: oh, I'm keeping it all. That, like it's-

GARY: Still?

CALVIN: Well, I, I wanna say no. I wanna say no, but, uh, you know, you don't really know until you get in that moment, right?

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then you're faced with the literally be f- uh, you'll be trusted with a lot. And so they, they basically, they're like, "I'm gonna take five and give the rest [00:56:00] away." And that's legitimately Nick and Nick. Um, and most of Chilliwack is wild. You don't see any Ferraris or Lamborghinis here, but there are a lot of people that are- They sell

KYLE: really nice houses.

CALVIN: Yeah. Houses.

GARY: Yeah. But I would, I'd push back on that, Kyle. I mean, I think people-

KYLE: You don't

GARY: think so?

CALVIN: Yeah ...

GARY: I think people are, I think there's a lot of really amazingly generous people in our culture. And I think if you- Yeah ... you know, similar to what you say about what you focus on grows, I think if you look for the cheapskates or the people that are nickel-and-diming, great.

But I mean, you're on boards. I'm on boards. When we ask people, it's many, many people giving lots to the same c- like Most people wanna be giving and generous, and obviously people hit hard times or can't, but- Wait,

KYLE: wait, wait. Most people wanna be giving and generous?

GARY: My experience has been the people that, in the space that I'm in, people are very generous- Yeah

and giving.

KYLE: Ch- Christian entrepreneur- Well, when you say the space you're in, what do you mean?

GARY: If the businesses that we go to are very supportive of our school, Christian school- Yeah ... nonprofits. You know, I go to, I've been to hundreds of fundraisers and, like-

KYLE: Okay, so

GARY: there's the view- I think [00:57:00] if you are, if you have experienced the gospel, right, you, if you have experienced God's love in your life, to some degree over time you should be becoming more and more generous.

And I, and there again, it's not a linear journey. It's not

KYLE: easy. Well, even you said, like, watching, listening, um, listening or reading My Money, Possessions, and Eternity from Randy Alcorn-

GARY: Yeah ...

KYLE: had really sh- has really shifted your thinking about it the last year or half year or whatever. And so I'm curious-

GARY: Yeah, but I don't even know if I'm more generous than I was.

I guess it's more the conviction of, like, um People There's all... People land in all different spots. Some people don't have enough. Like, there's lots of people that just don't have enough. They would say they don't have enough.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: Right? They're short, they have credit card debt. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, then there's the person that say they barely get by.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: You know? Then there's people that would still say they're barely getting by but, you know, have all their kids in rep hockey and- Yeah ... have two vehicle. Like, so even that is so challenging. That's why it's such a personal journey. That's why even this conversation, me [00:58:00] talking like this now is dangerous, 'cause everybody wants to put themselves in a different camp than what they're in.

The really wealthy person wants to say, "Hey, I'm just being a good steward. I'm," you know. And, and even for me, that would be the spot. I would wanna put myself in the camp of, hey, I- I, oh, I gotta be prudent, I gotta keep a, a buffer there in my businesses or personally or, hey, if I get hit by a bus, you know, I'm leaving my wife with 6 million in debt, like, how's she gonna make the payment?

You know, kind of where my head goes, right? Yeah. When I'm by myself. All that to say, you know, Randy says the idea of like, do you trust God?

KYLE: Mm-hmm.

GARY: And most of us practically do not trust the Lord with our finances. We think that we, we think just- So

KYLE: isn't that contrary to what you just said? There's lots of people-

GARY: It is

that are really

KYLE: generous?

GARY: But people are still really generous, Kyle. I, I, I think people don't need a sermon from you or me about how generous they are, an opinion. I, I guess for me it's what I'm saying is Randy Alcorn's book has helped me. Rather than look around, it's been like, "Hey Gary, you just worry about your own pocketbook and where you live, live loosely, hold, cling loosely to your stuff," right?

KYLE: Yeah, and I, I agree with all that. I'm not giving anyone a sermon. Yeah. I'm just [00:59:00] ser- I'm just wondering how you, you say- How that shapes up ... y- most people don't view that way about money, but you also say lots of people are really generous. They seem to really contradict each other.

GARY: I think that there's people that are in both camps, but I feel like, I guess I'm saying as a general rule, I'm encouraged by how generous a lot of the people I-

CALVIN: Yeah

GARY: that I associate with are. Now, I mean, I'm not...

CALVIN: C- can I add to that?

GARY: Yeah.

CALVIN: So I was given the fortunate chance to speak on behalf of Westbow Foundation at a Hunger for Life: A Slice of Impact event. Pretty recently. Yeah. And what I highlighted in the room was that God doesn't call everyone to be a, a missionary or a pastor, but sometimes he calls you to be a businessman.

And in that room there was some individuals, some large companies, and I know other companies, and so they are doing God's will. They're calling for their life in amassing equity, building businesses, employing people. And for them, they build that and give back to the kingdom.

KYLE: Mm-hmm.

CALVIN: And some it's like, "Nope, take your wife and you're [01:00:00] gonna go be a missionary, and you'll...

you know, 15 years in Guatemala or wherever it is," right? And so everybody wants to be generous, but at the end of the day, you look at your bank account and you go, "Man, it's tough." Like, I would love to give $100,000 towards this, but I don't know how I can afford to do it and still meet my retirement goals.

But I did hear a good- So

KYLE: then you're not being generous. Well, yeah. Saying you wanna be generous without giving money- Yeah ... you're not generous. Correct. You don't wanna be generous.

CALVIN: Well, you could give 200. No, I'm just joking. There's a clip from a guy, I can't rem- I, I... He just said, "You will die" And your house will be gone, given to others.

Your businesses will be gone." And he just listed it all. He's like, "So then why do you act in so much fear trying to hang on to it?" Yeah. Trust God. No. No. No. Yeah. Trust God, and it's, that's, that's where I'm moving towards. So, um-

KYLE: I love that.

CALVIN: Yeah. And it, it, it's like, "Okay, God, I, I, I'm gonna do this, and if you tell me, 'Calvin, I need you to drain that account and give it away,' you got it, God.

I'll do it. I have no [01:01:00] idea what it means, but I'll do it." And I just trust. And if He just says, "Well, that, well, that was the plan. I was going to divert that to someone else. I'm not replacing that," so be it. But it's interesting in scripture- 'Cause

GARY: that's, 'cause, 'cause that's real generation- generosity. Yeah.

Yeah. It is. But in scripture, it's really interesting, 'cause I've been, you know, just in daily reading, seeing, you know, in one verse it's like, "Hey, it's good to give an inheritance to your children or even your grandchildren." Yeah. My mom often quotes that. My mom's skipping the children and giving it to the grandkids, right?

Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm joking. And, and do you think that verse is about just wealth,

KYLE: or do you think it, inheritance-

GARY: Well, there again, and it's so hard when you come from 4 or 5,000 years ago and, you know- Yeah ... different languages and translations to, to say exactly what the context was. It was probably both.

Mm-hmm. Let's just assume it's both or everything. Yeah.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: I guess where I'm going with that is, um, my experience personally, again, 'cause I can only share to that, is, you know, you can be really broke month to month as a business owner, and lots of people that listen to this are. They have no extra cash.

Yeah. But their net worth may be 3 or 4

CALVIN: million. Yeah.

GARY: And I guess that is the [01:02:00] wrestle of, like, even let's just picture, you know, my life stayed exactly the same-

CALVIN: Mm-hmm ...

GARY: financially, like, with values, for the rest of my life, and I passed away at old.

CALVIN: Yeah.

GARY: Which for my family, 70 or

CALVIN: 65,

GARY: 70. Yeah, 67. 67.

CALVIN: Yeah.

GARY: And then it's like you have, you know, my children that are in their 30s, let's say, right?

CALVIN: Yeah.

GARY: And they get this money. Like, like, how much do people need given to them? How much needs to be left over?

CALVIN: Not much.

GARY: Um, anything, is it even healthy for that? And then the other question I guess I have for myself is, like, man, if I, like I did an estate. I was working. I'm not done, and I need to do it. But, like, I was working on a bit of an estate plan- Mm-hmm

you know, and other people are, that are listening are in this spot where, you know, you're kinda just figuring out what do you do with even these companies, and what do you do with the shares, and what do you do with these properties or all these things. And they're, and these are all first-world problems, so obviously some people are in the first two camps I talked about- Mm-hmm

barely getting by. But it's just this idea of- You know, does it make sense? And that's what Randy Alcorn really pushed on. It's like, does it make sense to save and save and build and build? And that's the wrestle. [01:03:00] Like, that's the wrestle, 'cause you're right. Yeah. Met business owners, many people are gifted to build all kinds of things, right?

But I guess for me, my, my experience has been, you know, whether I'm told that I'm generous or not, very quickly there's identity in these things, there's comfort, there's safety. Mm-hmm. And yeah, I've seen it personally with people very close to me where nothing- Yeah ... for a long time, and then have it, and it's amazing just that level of like, yeah.

And I just think kids don't need checks. Like- No ... it's just kids don't need checks when parents die.

CALVIN: It corrupts.

GARY: Not healthy.

CALVIN: Yeah.

GARY: In my opinion.

CALVIN: It's, it's

GARY: not-

KYLE: And be taught how to create value so they can have their own checks.

CALVIN: Yeah. Or, or take over the family business. But, uh- Do you

GARY: agree with taking over the family business?

CALVIN: Yeah. Family bus- Like, so train up in a, train up your child in a way that they can now be a part of the family business. And like Hobby Lobby's a great example. That can never be hijacked by one family member, and in perpetuity it uses its profits to benefit others. But, uh, John Paul Getty helped, um, [01:04:00] the House of Saud basically take Arabia, and made an oil deal with them He ba- basically bet everything that they would become the ruling family in there.

And they hit oil, and he became one of the wealthiest guys in the world during his time, and so did the Sauds. And they said to him, "The biggest regret we have was spoiling our kids and giving them everything, because they are rotten."

KYLE: Well, it doesn't work anywhere. You think of, like, indi- indigenous people here in, in, uh, in Canada.

Like, the amount of handouts they get, it doesn't help them at all. Just like a really rich dad giving his son lots of stuff, it teaches entitlement. Yeah. It doesn't actually teach value creation at all. No. It doesn't, it doesn't help, yeah. Yeah. But back to the generosity thing, I think people also forget that you can be generous with lots of other things than just money.

You know, like, I, I recently, um, we're gonna have an event soon with Pat Chabel, and he's gonna talk about his organization, Gospel Commonwealth, and I invited a bunch of people out to it, and someone said, "Well, I don't, I don't have any money to give, so I'm not gonna come." I'm like, "Well, you can be generous with your prayer, prayer life."

Oh, yeah. You can be generous [01:05:00] with your time. You can be generous with all kinds of other things. Yeah. I think it's not just, uh, money. It's a pos- it's a, it's a d- disposition of your heart of like, "Hey, none of this is mine."

CALVIN: Yeah.

KYLE: I hold it with open hands and, and including the other ways and, and, you know. Um, yeah, it's not, not just cash.

CALVIN: I agree. And, and whene- so I'm on, I'm doing a capital campaign for Sparrow right now. Uh, I'm trying to get everything pledged up to the end of the year for dispersals throughout 2027. But I don't, I, and I, I thankfully I listened to your podcast the morning of, and you talked about, like, religious guilt or, uh, and I just said, "No, I'm not doing that.

This is not religious guilt." And the idea is y- I'm inviting you if, if this is something that resonates with you, I'm inviting you to be a part of it. Um, but nowhere am I gonna implement, like, manipulation or try to close the deal, 'cause I am recently, uh, sober from, uh, outcome addiction. I was addicted to outcomes, [01:06:00] and I'm now done.

GARY: So if the, if the results weren't there, then it was a failure? Is that basically- Correct, yeah ... your mindset? Total disaster.

CALVIN: And I would try to do everything I could to get it to the

GARY: outcome. Manipulate, manipulate.

CALVIN: Oh, yeah.

GARY: Control.

CALVIN: But we call persuade. But that's the thing is it's, it's... And so now I'm, uh-

GARY: Very common in Christian communities.

CALVIN: Yeah, or can- In all Christian

GARY: communities.

CALVIN: Yeah. Oh, for sure. All

GARY: of them.

CALVIN: Yeah, we call it persuasion. We call, uh, gossip prayer requests. Yeah. So- I

KYLE: love it. I remember the- Yeah ... the church bulletin, it was like a-

CALVIN: Yeah ...

KYLE: yeah.

CALVIN: So, I mean- Cool ... it's exciting times, man. We should be happy to be alive at this time.

Look at all the excitement. We have no idea what it's gonna be like in three months, six months, and it's just fun. I do

KYLE: know God's still gonna be in control.

CALVIN: Amen. That's the fun- I look

GARY: at life as a rollercoaster, man. It's just as much fun on the way down as on the way up.

CALVIN: I-

GARY: Is that a bad analogy?

CALVIN: Yeah, I don't know if it is fun on the way up.

Is it? Depends

KYLE: if you're like up,

GARY: like- No, it's about the anticipation of what's coming Of what's

CALVIN: coming. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, that's true. Yeah. It's a good analogy.

GARY: That's how I look at life.

CALVIN: Yeah.

GARY: I don't know if it's right or wrong.

CALVIN: You guys move fast. That's just my view. I will say, [01:07:00] you guys were like, "Can we record today?"

I, and here we are at 5:00 recording. Boom.

KYLE: And we're, and we're at an hour already. You gotta go to the dentist.

CALVIN: Yeah, I gotta go to the dentist. So this- Or something ... will probably give me just enough time to get to the dentist. So- Get home

KYLE: anyways.

CALVIN: Yeah. Well, dental clinic first.

KYLE: Any other questions or comments before we wrap this up?

CALVIN: Um, thank you for having me on. If, uh, I could ever come back, I'd be honored. I will not force my way on. I know that some people try to force themselves on Joe Rogan, and he just shuts them down, so I'm not gonna force my- You look

GARY: like Joe Rogan, if anyone could get on

CALVIN: there. Yeah, yeah. But I'm, I'm not like anything like him.

KYLE: I'm, I'm not, yeah.

CALVIN: I'm a, I'm a-

KYLE: I'm no Joe Rogan either, so.

CALVIN: Yeah, yeah. I'm no- I'm not into- I

KYLE: think he has a easier time getting guests than I do.

CALVIN: He, he does, and if you try to force your way in, he'd make sure you never go on there. Yeah.

KYLE: Yeah.

CALVIN: It's

GARY: not gonna be Bulldog by no

KYLE: way. It's like, it's like Li- Li- Liver King.

You hear that story?

CALVIN: Yeah. No, but I know. That's hilarious. That's, he's the prime example. That guy went crazy, so.

KYLE: Yeah. Thanks for listening, guys. Catch you guys next week. Peace. Okay. Peace.

CALVIN: Thank

KYLE: you. Oh, hot roll in here.

CALVIN: Eh?

KYLE: It's for our thumbnail.

CALVIN: Oh.[01:08:00]

Flexing?

GARY: Yeah.

KYLE: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, go like this. Go like... Yeah. Holy moly. How long have you been going to the gym for?

CALVIN: Uh, 200 days a year. One hour a day. I would do it too, but

KYLE: I just- I just started four months ago, first time.

CALVIN: Where do you go?

KYLE: Murph's.

CALVIN: Oh, yeah. I go to Chilliwack Landing in New Jersey

KYLE: This is usually how our podcast ends. Do you

CALVIN: hear me running down

KYLE: to the bathroom?

CALVIN: Yeah.

‍

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