Why Don’t Christian Men Sing in Church? - Briefcase & The Barn EP 94

May 6, 2026

‍GARY: [00:00:00] Right. Got any feedback on the podcast, Lily?

KYLE: Zero. Desire to record right now. Zero. Makes two of us, buddy. Yeah. Thanks two of us. Want me to pray? Sure. Uh, Lord Jesus, I don't know what to pray actually. Um, but uh, here we are. We're about to record another episode and ask you, be with us. Help us just to be ourselves and to be real and, um, not say anything stupid.

And, uh, just to be. Uh, to glorify you, um, help us 'cause we don't, both of us don't really wanna record. Um, and, uh, I, uh, thankfully I know that you're here and you know us and you are control of all things and [00:01:00] that this isn't, uh, beyond you. So we can trust in that. In Jesus' name, amen.

GARY: Crying right after.

KYLE: So you started last week's podcast too.

What? Taking your shirt. Your shirt

GARY: on or taking off?

KYLE: Taking your sweater off. Porn kills love. Welcome back guys. Spent episode of episode. Where'd you get that shirt?

GARY: Bought it off the internet

KYLE: when?

GARY: Oh, a couple months ago. Cost me a lot of money.

KYLE: How much?

GARY: I don't know. But the shipping alone was just insane.

I got some weird bill afterwards from FedEx for shipping

KYLE: Tariffs. It

GARY: wasn't even a tariff, it was just didn't read the fine print when I ordered it. I guess it's

KYLE: a, Gary has a big skull on his shirt with a big knife through the skull. It's for all you audio listeners and uh, then it says Porn kills love.

GARY: It's from the website. Ah, fight the new drug or

KYLE: no.

GARY: Yeah. Anyways, it's a movement for sure. [00:02:00] People don't talk about it enough. Right.

KYLE: No. And apparently we talk about it too much on here.

GARY: Is that what people say?

KYLE: That's what you told me. People say and your wife says that.

GARY: Oh no, that was about marriage. We talked too much about marriage.

Oh no, she didn't say we talked too much about pornography. Oh, okay. No, um, it was interesting 'cause we had our first Freedom Session grad last week. Which you're at.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: And the fee only, I didn't, I got a bit of feedback. Most people really liked it. But it was interesting how, um, people right away somebody reached out to me and said, Hey, my brother was there, and he just could not believe how honest you were about your.

Struggle that you had with Graphy said,

KYLE: it's funny that, it's funny that people say that because, so I mean, I've heard that talk that you do up front many times, varying

GARY: degrees. 'cause it's never the same. 'cause I never tell the truth. Right.

KYLE: Well, I, I mean, I don't know what you're holding back, but I think it's, uh, pretty on point.

But I don't even feel like it's that open anymore just because I don't know, for the work I do or how open I am myself, but I'm just like me. Like it doesn't really throw me off. But I guess for a lot of people it can still be like. Oh my goodness. That's really open. 'cause all but all you shared [00:03:00] was

GARY: I was very vague.

I did not go into any detail. No, no. It was, I literally just said that my wife was said that I had to go to Freedom session. 'cause we had big problems.

KYLE: Because you were looking, got porn.

GARY: Yeah. So I would assume that that's the bulk of men and marriages would be my assumption.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: Or they're just not even, nobody knows more likely that they're Nobody knows.

Nobody knows. That'd be the more likely

KYLE: the amount of people I run into that. Have personally shared things with me that have told me is I've never told anybody this. There's

GARY: a lot.

KYLE: There's a lot.

GARY: Me too. Me too.

KYLE: And I'm like, I'm always, I mean I, that was just definitely my own story as well. Like for a long time no one knew everything about me, the majority of my life, probably at least until I was 30.

So I guess it's not, it's pretty common.

GARY: Yeah, it's pretty common. And the other thing about deceitfulness. And this is interesting 'cause I see this in my own life in varying ways with other people I'm close to. But the longer you keep something a secret, the harder it's tell the truth. And we all know that 'cause we've had that.

Everybody's had [00:04:00] that in their life. For most people, well,

KYLE: especially this, especially 'cause the thing keeps growing.

GARY: Well that's what I'm trying to say. Grow. And it grows in your mind that too. Reality that it just grows in your mind. So like the minute that you haven't dealt with something properly and you have to.

Yeah, well, so it's just a real, uh, it's really important to just get it off your chest as quick as you can, but of course that's easier said than done. So,

KYLE: yeah. You got anything? Uh, any hot topics?

GARY: I saw that you added stuff, but I didn't look into what it was. I mean, I've just been immersed in cattle deals and real estate deals.

Just feel like I'm drinking from a fire hose.

KYLE: Making deals,

GARY: making,

KYLE: getting those hits a dopamine.

GARY: Yeah. Not enough though, right?

KYLE: Not enough

GARY: Need. Bigger ones. Need

KYLE: more?

GARY: Yeah. More.

KYLE: bigger. More faster.

GARY: Yeah,

KYLE: let's go.

GARY: Yeah. It's never enough, that's for sure.

KYLE: Okay.

GARY: It's pretty interesting. Um, yeah. Cattle prices just keep climbing.

We talk about on here all the time. It's a big part of my life. It's pretty interesting. I got, uh, I bought, uh, [00:05:00] in March, I bought 90. Pregnant heifers out of Alberta, Holstein heifers, just

KYLE: for

GARY: multitude of reasons.

KYLE: They're all pregnant.

GARY: Yeah.

KYLE: 90 pregnant ones. Yeah. How do you, how do you do that? Like there's one from one farm.

Several farms.

GARY: Yeah. Yeah. I think they were all from one farm. Oh, wow. I bought 'em through another dealer.

KYLE: Okay. How much do you pay for pregnant Heifer?

GARY: I'm not gonna say.

KYLE: Okay. How come?

GARY: Ah, just don't wanna convict.

KYLE: What do you mean the victors?

GARY: I just don't need to say what I paid for them.

KYLE: Okay, why? 'cause you're just making banging profit or because

GARY: No, I don have no idea if I'll make any money.

I haven't sold them yet, but I'm for sure not gonna make much money if I start saying what I paid for 'em. So

KYLE: that's okay. There we go. There we go. There we go. That's what I was looking for. Just a reason.

Just,

GARY: just a reason.

KYLE: Make a lot of, lot of things I don't wanna share either.

GARY: Um, they were arguably a good deal.

They're all pregnant to sec semen, uh, Holsteins. So. Very different than what I would've wanted. Like if I would've had a choice, I would've taken 'em all pregnant to Angus, uh, animals. But, um, [00:06:00] anyways, they'll sell cows

KYLE: and so you, so you are gonna get 'em shipped all over here and put 'em

GARY: on your farm. I bought 'em all to another, an intermediary place where they're getting fed.

'cause I do not have space for them.

KYLE: Oh wow.

GARY: And I'm getting them and I hadn't even seen them. I bought them sight unseen.

KYLE: Wow.

GARY: Um, so I took a bit of a risk and. Yeah. Anyways, it's pretty

KYLE: interesting. And so they're gonna, they're gonna have 'em there too,

GARY: or? Yeah, there's no, they're starting to cal now at my farm.

I brought the first head back to my farm

KYLE: to start calving.

GARY: Yeah. Are they

KYLE: all spread out or are they

GARY: Yeah, they are from May to September. And I do not like calving out first Cal heifers. Like, I don't know if you know anything about Cavan owned animals, but like if you,

KYLE: I've did a little bit when I worked in their farm.

GARY: Okay. So you would've dealt with them. So what's the first calf effort like when you, she has her first

KYLE: Cal? I didn't know. I didn't, I wasn't that involved enough, but I was there, I was helping out.

GARY: Did you have heifers kick you in the head when you were milking?

KYLE: Yes.

GARY: Okay. So those were the first cows?

KYLE: Yeah.

Okay. So yes. Yeah. Oh yeah. First time in the parlor. That was all

GARY: the pain in the ass. First time in the parlor. So picture that 90 times over.

KYLE: Okay.

GARY: Anyways.

KYLE: And you're the one dealing with it on the

GARY: farm? No, the Filipinos are the guys that work, run my farm, but I don't, I wouldn't wanna do that to them, so I'm hoping to sell 'em ahead of [00:07:00] time if it works out.

If not. I'll be able to sell them.

KYLE: Sell them, sell the calves?

GARY: No, like with the calf in them. Sell them before they even have their,

KYLE: oh, wow.

GARY: Yeah.

KYLE: Oh, okay. So you were, and that

GARY: was your plan all along? Right now I just didn't even have a plan really, other than it was my year end and I needed to buy some cattle and,

KYLE: oh, that was your reason,

GARY: that was the main mo motivating factor.

KYLE: You, and were you looking for a deal or you just knew of this deal or?

GARY: I was looking for anything and this one just literally dropped in my lap.

KYLE: Okay. Yeah.

GARY: While I was in, uh, I bought 'em while I was in, uh, on my family holiday.

KYLE: And is it hard to find a farm to, um, get someone to feed 'em and, and, and

GARY: No.

'cause there's some pretty, there's quite a few guys down here in the valley now in the Fraser Valley that own bigger dairies that have feedlots of varying degrees where they raise their young stock, not in the valley. Which totally makes sense 'cause. Just in the valley here, the feed that's grown here is predominantly phenomenal feed.

KYLE: Mm.

GARY: And heifers like young stock do not need phenomenal feed. It's not even good for them. It's, they guys here buy a lot of straw and other cheap product to [00:08:00] blend with the grass that they grow here.

KYLE: Okay.

GARY: So it totally makes sense to raise 'em somewhere else. And even just a dryer climate I think is better for them.

And then they're out on pack. So they're getting like, they're out just getting exercise and they're strong and they're mixed with like, my belief is that animal's mixed with other animals is healthy. Kinda like

KYLE: humans,

GARY: kinda like humans. So you mix with four other, five other herds, you have like a thousand or 15 head a hundred head or 2000 or however many they have altogether.

I think it's healthy. So, um, pretty convenient for me just to find somewhere to take them. And the guy where I brought them, they do a great job. They'd do a better job than if I was looking after them. So it's awesome.

KYLE: Yeah. Okay.

GARY: It's a science, right? Feeding animals is literally a science. Like you can feed them too well too, and they can get really fat and have serious problems when they cal, or you can have 'em light and then you have serious problems.

KYLE: Okay.

GARY: It's definitely like a balancing act.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: With, uh, cattle,

KYLE: but everything is measured in scientific and you get let the feed guys come out and they

GARY: Oh yeah. Test everything and test the feed, and

KYLE: it's hard. And you just haven't sold 'em all yet. That's why you're bringing some back to cab at your farm.

GARY: Yeah. Yeah. I haven't, it hasn't been a top priority of mine. Um,

KYLE: right.

GARY: But now [00:09:00] the milk, there's no demand for milk right now. And of course, I'm in the buy and selling business now. I can use 'em myself. It's not like I have to sell them, but,

KYLE: and because you don't know if they're males are females, right? Or they're all bred,

GARY: they're all bred to female Holsteins.

KYLE: Oh, okay. So you can use, they're

GARY: all having,

KYLE: you can just raise these yourself to be your own milk

GARY: house. I won't do that. I'm not gonna get into that program.

KYLE: Oh, okay. Somebody will Oh, that's right. You don't write your own cap.

GARY: No, but somebody will, and that's why somebody will be interested in them because we know that going forward in BC there's a huge demand for milk allegedly coming in the next few years.

And so. Okay. People will be,

KYLE: these are not for meat though. These are all for milk.

GARY: These are all for milk. Hopefully they're not for meat. Then I got a bigger problem.

KYLE: Okay. Why

GARY: wells? Just that would mean that they're pretty crappy quality, right? They're going for hamburgers.

KYLE: And do you know like, uh, the genetic makeup of these, like, you know, like, or do you follow that at

GARY: all?

Test? I didn't get that carried away.

KYLE: Okay.

GARY: But lots of guys do genomic tests or animals now and would know exactly the caliber of the animals. These are not in the upper echelons. It's not like you're buying the best of the best. I wouldn't,

KYLE: I, I remember working for Bob Matick and uh, in grade 12 I had bike, bike [00:10:00] to, uh, bike to his farm from my place.

GARY: Phenomenal cow.

KYLE: 3:00 AM. Yes. And uh, I had to tube feed a calf and I put it down to Tube down. Yeah. I put it as long and found out the next day it was like a 15,000 cap or something,

GARY: shit. Anyways. That's why you don't work there anymore.

KYLE: Yeah, and I don't have any patients to work on our farm.

GARY: With animals.

KYLE: Yeah, I remember. I remember when I quit, he is like, yeah, you just didn't seem like the type just to like, it's

GARY: not a good fit

KYLE: just to be calmly walking around seeing who's in heat, you know, like I'd be done full pole. Get outta here.

GARY: Okay.

KYLE: You gotta be calm around animals. Apparently

GARY: so. Yeah, you do. You can tell who are calm around animals.

I go to a lot of different farms buying cattle and just selling hay and stuff. Yeah, you can walk through some barns with guys and cows don't even move. They're all laying down other barns you walk into and you just set foot in the barn. All the cows are like just jumping out, freaking out still.

Disaster.

Cool. Another th uh, thing that, uh, I thought was interesting that happened, uh, in the last day or two, and I haven't done any research on it, really [00:11:00] what it means, but there's a real estate brokerage called Real Bro, real Brokerage, which is like an online, uh, virtual brokerage where there's like no offices or anything really, or very few.

I should, I don't know too much about it. Um,

KYLE: lower commission then that way, or.

GARY: No, not lower commission, but they just bought re max. Oh wow. For, I don't want to, there again, I've done zero due diligence. Somewhere between 600 and a billion dollars, I think seven, 800 million or something.

KYLE: Oh wow. Is Remax just Canada?

GARY: Nope. Re max is all over. Um, and the reason they bought it, I mean there's probably lots of different. Reasons, but I think it basically shows that there's like a seismic shift happening in real estate. So like exp would be another great example of a brokerage. Um, that's, yeah, I know

KYLE: Randy, Randy,

GARY: Randy, Dick.

Yep.

KYLE: Yep.

GARY: Yeah. Was he on your podcast? Yeah, he was, yeah. Oh, okay. Um, and he, he even predicted stuff like this. He's, he's been saying this for a long time. People will move to that model. And a lot of agents from our office and other offices have been moving to exp. They, so those brokerages charges [00:12:00] low charge, lower fees to realtors.

Um, so a lot of people wouldn't realize that if you're at a brokerage, you know, your average realtor's paying between who knows what amount, but let's just say 500 to 1500 a month, literally just to be a, a realtor at their office. Like even if they sell nothing, that's what they're paying every month. And then every other year you're paying your relicensing fees, which are thousands of dollars and.

You're paying. For classes, which are hundreds of dollars. And so there's just a lot of costs. That's not including marketing or anything, any other, the stuff that you would need to kind of run your business. So, um, it's definitely a model now because commissions have went up so much. 'cause the,

KYLE: okay, so maybe just explain the two models.

'cause I don't think people understand

GARY: that. Yeah. So there's the model where you would have, like I, the one I'm in where, you know, you're part of an office. There's a brick and mortar building, you would have office meetings once a week, century 21 in Chillax. There's five or six, seven brokerages in Chillax that are pretty well known.

They would all kind of have similar model that some would do things way better than others, but with the idea of, hey, we'd all be in an office together, uh, periodically you could go to the office, you could have [00:13:00] an OA physical office at the place, you'd have some community there. Um, so that's your like, you know, legacy type brokerage.

Like re max has been built that way. And in re max. I don't think you're allowed to be a re max realtor if you have another full-time job or part-time job. Okay. Like you literally have to be a full-time. Now, you could have other businesses, there'd be a lot of work loopholes and workarounds, but you definitely couldn't have a job at Best Buy in the day and then do realtor by night at REM Max.

So they've tried to make themselves quote unquote, you know, more professional, proper, which I can see the benefit of that. Um. Other model.

KYLE: So new model is,

GARY: the new model is everything's virtual. Okay. It's literally just on the internet. It's a cloud, cloud based. Uh, there again, there's people that've listened to this that are at real brokerage maybe, and they've given, they could really explain it really clearly.

KYLE: And what, and any benefit to the buyer or the seller?

GARY: The people you like, the people that you're doing business for? Um, it's definitely the bulk of the benefits I think would, would be mostly for the realtors. The realtors. Yeah. Um. I mean, you would argue [00:14:00] as a realtor that if you're being looked after, well you'll look after your clients well on anything that benefits, I mean, you talked about lower commissions.

If you're paying less, you can charge less too. So,

KYLE: yeah.

GARY: Um, I think that realtor are ultimately in the market we're in now. This, now we're getting into a spot where. People are actually, ironically, you would think that in the market we're in, people would care more about how much commission they're paying 'cause their house might sell for less.

But now I think people will care more about if they hire a realtor that's actually a good realtor and does a good job and knows how to price the place sharply rather than just charge Gives them, yeah, go

KYLE: back to what it really should be in the first place.

GARY: Yeah, and I think because we got into a spot where a house might sufferer between in our chill act here, between easily between 750,000, a million dollars, the checks were so large that you didn't have to do a lot of deals and that was a problem.

But now the real estate market's got so bad that like in the office I'm in, I think there's a hundred agents and well over half have not done any deal. In the last year.

KYLE: But that, but that, like, I remember talking to realtors lot over the years and it, it didn't, seemed like there was always a [00:15:00] majority of the realtors that barely sold anything.

GARY: Well, it'd be no different than anything. You know, 20% do 80% of the volume, but there'd be a smattering of people, especially in 21 and 22. Everybody voted out a bunch of deals. Fair enough. Right? 'cause it was just so insane. But the volume's down now, and now people really congregate to realtors that get stuff sold and, and I think people that are just, people are quitting too.

Which is helpful. Right. What's

KYLE: it like for you being a real realtor, you being a realtor and knowing a lot of people, do you have in the back of your head like, oh, I could sell this guy's place one day, like that internal dialogue?

GARY: No. I think I sometimes wonder if I'd be a better realtor if I was that way or a worse one.

I don't know. I mean, I feel like it's a benefit. I mean, I think that I have always felt. Um, and it's to my detriment. So I've even, I actually had people the other day, um, that asked me to work with them and the reason they asked me to work with them is 'cause I had done a giveaway at the Be Egg Show last year at my booth and given away a nice yetty cooler and they were the winners and that's why they called me wonderful [00:16:00] people.

Anyways, it's pretty interesting, like just getting to know 'em a little bit.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: But I did say to them, I said straight up to 'em, I said. I've gotten in trouble for my wife before who hears all my phone calls at home. She said, sometimes you'll pretty much talk people outta buying something which you shouldn't be doing.

So that would be to my detriment. Now, most realtors don't do that. Most realtors probably would air towards the other side.

KYLE: Wouldn't you say anybody listening would want to use you more because of that?

GARY: No, because I think that can, you can go too far that way.

KYLE: Yeah, for sure. You can go too far. But it's trust building too, to a certain degree as well, right?

GARY: course it is. But I think

KYLE: like even learned that in sales courses is to like. Say no, and, and like push back to your customer and things like that.

GARY: Yeah. I'm never doing it intentionally. I guess I'm more just like, Hey, I, I'm a, I just think, hey, you're spending a lot of money. You wanna be pretty prudent and nobody should be getting forced into spending six or seven or $800,000.

Like obviously some people do need to push, but those people won't be susceptible to a push anyways. Like people that are fool, like people that can't make a decision, won't make a decision just 'cause a realtor starts pushing 'em. And then I guess [00:17:00] my. My thought process in that is if you push people, you know, you don't, you, you can't be a profit, I guess.

So when I, back to my comment about me being a bit too negative on the buying side maybe, um. I do, I do a fair amount of buying still with people. I always like, obviously selling is easier to some extent, where you list a place, but you don't want to be in a spot where you have to look back at somebody.

'cause you might get to list it again down the road. And of course, you can't dictate where the market's going. And we're in a really soft market right now. You're way worse. You're the

KYLE: best you can.

GARY: You do the best you can in the moment that you're in. So, you know. Caleb Westing, who's a realtor in Chill Lock.

He's a great realtor and he, he's gave me a good advice early on. He said, don't try to be a profit, like, just don't try to predict where the market's going. Like just. Someone's in the market to buy and they wanna buy now. You help 'em get the best deal you can in the moment, and that's all you can do is a realtor.

KYLE: Stick, stay. Stay in your lane.

GARY: Stay in your lane. And so for me it's been an area of,

KYLE: it's good with coaching like that actually as well is just like, you don't get, you don't decide whether the person believes, doesn't believe.

GARY: You're

KYLE: not advising.

GARY: You're not advising stuff.

KYLE: No. You're just stay in your lane.[00:18:00]

GARY: Okay. I think that we live in a culture where real estate has become, it's, it's used way too much as an investment almost rather than like you're buying a home. Um, but there's still a lot of people in that couple that I met the other day for the first time, like they just want to own their own home and they live in a beautiful spot now.

And theoretically they could live there for a while. But I think people really, and I think it's healthy, I think when you get into a spot as a society where nobody wants to own or people have given up on that hope, which we're actually having a bit now, it's just not good. It's not good for economy. I don't feel it's good for society.

So I think it's healthy for people to wanna buy. And it's not for everybody either, right? Some people are. Very content renting. And you're, you're, yeah,

KYLE: we were talking about our, uh, our buddy we went on a stag with last week and whose son just bought a place. Oh yes. And, and, uh, he is early twenties and bought a place, you know, just himself.

Uh, I think it's flipping awesome. It's

GARY: amazing.

KYLE: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but he's been, you know, he's not even a dink, he's just single guy dink double income. No.

GARY: Okay.

KYLE: Or you must've heard that phrase.

GARY: Yeah, I had heard that.

KYLE: Okay. But yeah, he's, for him to like save up and he's

just

GARY: [00:19:00] hard.

KYLE: Yeah. That's awesome.

GARY: His dad doesn't charge him enough rent.

It's part of the

KYLE: problem. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Should have kicked him out way earlier. Shoulda

GARY: kicked him out a long time ago. Should have had to buy a mobile home first. But I digress.

KYLE: I'm still so, um, uh, uh, bothered by you. Didn't, uh, fall for my, uh, uh, vodka. I

GARY: wasn't paying attention to it.

KYLE: Yeah.

I had fun with that though.

GARY: Oh, you pretended you were drinking vodka, but it was just water in the bottle.

KYLE: Yeah. Yeah. So for, uh, for the listeners, we, we had a stag last week for, uh, the, what do you call 'em? Farm to farm animal,

GARY: small farm animals. Yeah.

KYLE: And so I bought a big bottle of vodka with, but I just filled it with full of water.

And so half hour in, I cut myself a glass of ice and I just filled it to the top and started drinking and got some side eyes. And

GARY: these guys were getting really free.

KYLE: Yeah. I could not believe I, I was holding my alcohol checking to see if I was

GARY: gonna all of a sudden pass out.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: There wasn't a lot of drinking really.

KYLE: No, there wasn't.

GARY: There was obviously that, but wasn't, uh. I [00:20:00] haven't been on very many stags, so I don't know what the, but I hear that they can be quite, quite crazy.

KYLE: You remember your stag?

GARY: Yeah. Yeah. It was really crazy.

KYLE: Uh.

GARY: Do you got show notes or not?

KYLE: I do. Yeah. I'm just, I'm just, I'm, I'm, you're

GARY: just enjoying how the guy who didn't have anything to say has talked a lot. Yeah. Stop. I'm good.

KYLE: No, I mean, go ahead. Do you got anything

else?

GARY: I don't, I could talk about more stuff, but I'm good for

KYLE: that. Like what you wanna talk about women's makeup?

GARY: No, we're gonna get a lot of blow back. Well, I guess by the time this gets released, we'll know how much blow back we've gotten, but I'm bracing for impact tomorrow.

KYLE: I think that's awesome. Okay. I was listening to, uh, a podcast yesterday and, uh, Lee Strobel, who wrote the case for Christ, asked, uh, Jim Daly from Focus on the Family.

This question, if you're with God and God has to answer one question, what question would you ask him? I was like, wow, that's really [00:21:00] interesting. I wonder what Gary would say to that.

GARY: Oh, I'd have to think about it. First of all, before I could answer that. Can't do it on the spot. What question would you ask?

KYLE: What question I'd ask? Um, probably like, I mean, the first thing that came to my mind was like, something about my future. Like, am I, am I doing what I'm supposed to be doing?

GARY: Okay.

KYLE: I think about that quite a bit. Like, is this really where I'm supposed to be? Or I should be doing something else? Um, I think about that a lot.

Um. That's what the biggest thing I would ask is that, am I, am I, am I doing the right thing? What am I not seeing that I should be seeing?

GARY: Do you not have things that you see at the moment that you shouldn't, that you should see clearly? Like, can you not step out 30,000 feet and look down and be like, oh.

I can see where I'm, yeah, of

KYLE: course. But those are the things I already see.

GARY: Okay, but you're thinking there's the unknowns.

KYLE: Yeah, there's, there's gotta be things I don't see. Yeah. Okay.

GARY: Interesting.

KYLE: Or, or maybe something more about his, like his attributes, like how loving he is. Like, show me, like, uh, explain to me more of like, um, [00:22:00] how, how loving you are or how great, how great your grace is or goes like that.

Because I think once you understand that more, it's easier to act accordingly, increase your faith. So. Because I don't think we've grasped at at all.

GARY: No, I don't think we do. No. I think of all the pe, even yourself and others that have lost kids and stuff, and I think, well, even in that, like we might not understand it now, but we know that, I think theoretically anyways, people realize, people that are Christians realize that everything happens for a reason.

But yeah, people go through a lot of hard things. A

KYLE: lot of suffering.

GARY: A lot of suffering. I think of a lot. I've just found out a lot of things about people even in the last weeks and, well, we just had our Freedom Session grad, and just think of the amount of suffering and challenging things that people have had in their lives that theoretical like.

Practically make no sense from our human perspective. Right? Just the amount of hurt that people have and

KYLE: yeah.

GARY: Crosses that people have to bear and

KYLE: it weigh, it weighs on me. There's like, sometimes people share with me, things with me and I, there's lot, I know more than ever there's nothing I can do and I shouldn't give advice [00:23:00] and I just need to listen, but it still really weighs me down or afterwards.

So when I'm just thinking about 'em, just the suffering that they're in. Yeah. And uh, I found myself like a couple a month ago, just. Left. Left this place driving home and I was just, just start bawling. I just liked the heaviness of what the suffering people are in knowing you can't do bad really anything about it.

And uh, I. It's, yeah, it's, uh, I mean, I think, I think the, the flip side is, is when you try, try to do something about it, um, and, and you really shouldn't,

GARY: that's very problematic.

KYLE: That can be really problematic. Yeah. I've definitely experienced that and, and, and done it myself as well, but yeah.

GARY: Yeah, that's something I probably have to really learn yet.

It's just not to be solution oriented and just to be realize that I can't solve all the problems and that there's a lot of things and I, I guess I already realize that. I know that only God can fix things, but I just think, man, there's so many issues and so many people, so many problems, and they're hurt.

There's people hurt so much and. It definitely bothers me. It [00:24:00] bothers my wife that I'm empathetic to all those people and not to her. It's really bad. Does that make sense?

KYLE: Yeah. Well, I've got that comment myself before too, so. Okay.

GARY: Where you're caring so much for others and not caring to so, so I'm trying to do a better job of that.

Listen to her heart and just even people like my kids and stuff, like when you ask the question, like I guess I feel like there's so many things already that I know and I'm not changing. It's like I don't need to know more. I just need to deal with stuff that I actually know. Right. Like I need to be way more intentional at home.

I need to cut things onto my calendar.

KYLE: Yeah. Because sometimes that could be at other people's stuff can be a deflection of dealing with your own crap.

GARY: Mm-hmm.

KYLE: I see that a lot.

GARY: The other day you posted something I think on your. Social media, and I thought, I took a screenshot of it and I couldn't find it for the, for this, I was gonna post it.

But it was basically that, uh, and I, I can't remember quote who said it. It was a quote and it said, who half of over half of our troubles today could be, um, avoided by saying yes less often and no [00:25:00] more quickly.

KYLE: Yes,

GARY: less yes quicker. By saying yes. By saying yes. Less often, and no quicker.

KYLE: Let's see if I can find it here.

GARY: Yeah. Anyways, it's. I just, for me, a big part of, like the other day I agreed to something to be on some committee and I, the minute I agreed, I knew I was made a mistake and then I, the minute I had my first meeting, I, I made a mistake and I'm just like, oh, what have I, why am I doing this right? It's just crazy.

KYLE: can't find

GARY: that one. It might not have been on yours, so,

KYLE: but I found this one here. That, a good

GARY: one.

KYLE: That you were, uh, what is the bravest thing you've ever said? Ask the boy help. Said the horse. Asking for help isn't giving up. Said the horse. It's refusing to give up.

That was a good one.

GARY: Hmm.

KYLE: Yeah. I like the quotes. It's fun.

GARY: Yeah, there's a lot of wisdom out there.

KYLE: Um, okay, I got in the middle of that question, so [00:26:00] I added a bunch of things yesterday, like you said, because I just texted like five, have six people last night and said, Hey, you got any topics? Or tomorrow I'm recording.

Why do you think most men. You with me?

GARY: No, I'm listening man.

KYLE: Okay. I'm not, never sure. Right? So better than it used to be. If you look like at their first 20 episodes, that'd be twitching when you were on your phone. So now I'm just like, whatever, Frick, be on your phone. Here's the. Nice. Why do you think most men just don't engage that much?

With Christian music played in church, I find most worship songs speak about all the things that you'd feel and all the things I proclaim I will do for God versus worship songs that proclaim God's attributes. Men like songs that proclaim God's power and kingship and not about and, and not about our feelings.

There's a lot of, uh, a lot of, not questions there, but opinions, um, but I've heard this before. And I've experienced it myself, [00:27:00] um, that I was often not just not engaged in music, but it was not

GARY: put that into Chad g Bt for me. And let's say that in layman's terms. And so I can, sorry, I'm just, can you ask the question once more time?

Basic. You don't need to copy, but just, what was the question?

KYLE: Uh, I'm gonna do it here. It takes two seconds. Okay. I'll say, say this. Say this for Gary. Bar level.

GARY: Dumb farmer. Dumb farmer.

KYLE: Gary fart.

GARY: Explain this to a dumb farmer. What's this person saying? Uh,

KYLE: do you like singing church?

GARY: Um, I'm a little bit self-conscious.

I mean, we sit right at the very front row, right? Yeah, I'm a little self-conscious. Um, but I'm still thankful in the front row 'cause I'm not distracted. So I really like that. Um, also, I feel like I do a lot of physical wrestling in church with my children.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: Because I'm like policing and, and stuff. Um, so do I.

Am I, it's definitely not the place where I would like, ironically where I would feel I can worship the most. Like I really [00:28:00] appreciate preaching and I feel like during, while the preaching's happening, I can really pay attention. For the most part, I'm sitting there with just two of my kids at that point.

The, the little ones go to Sunday school in our church during service and, uh.

KYLE: I think often I come in and I don't actually feel like singing at all, or, or I'm in a posture to listen to your sermon. But if I just do sing I and think about the words that I'm singing, that it actually, that, that just in itself moves me more into that direction.

GARY: Thing is we're all created differently and we'd like, like there again, this is never acknowledged or talked about, but like, we like different types of music, like we're there again. Maybe it's just a personal taste thing, but when you go to church, you need to just. I would agree that we would all just sing whatever's there.

So like while some people are pumped, 'cause it's really their style. I mean, if you went all around the world and listened to how things are sang and

KYLE: yeah,

GARY: the music, it would really change from church to church. Right. Well obviously not everybody sitting in that service is pumped about the particular type of [00:29:00] music that they're singing along with.

Right? Yeah. So.

KYLE: Okay, this is what Jji BZ says. If you wanted a bit more blunt, more your style, why don't most men connect with worship music? Is it because the songs focus too much on feelings and not enough on who God actually is? His power and authority?

GARY: I,

KYLE: I mean, a lot of guys don't even know their feelings outside of church either. So how are you supposed to expect your feelings inside a church?

GARY: Yeah.

KYLE: And a lot of people just aren't excited about God.

GARY: No.

KYLE: And

GARY: the gospel, I would say, or the biggest piece I would say is that a lot of people that are sitting in church are either A, not Christians.

So then of course they, there wouldn't have any feelings towards the Lord. And then the other thing would be that they're. A lot of guys in church, even if they are Christians, are really struggling with private sin, in my opinion. And so that just completely neuter you from being effective in any way, whether it be worshiping or

KYLE: Yeah, praying.

GARY: Leading or praying like,

KYLE: yeah.

GARY: I often think like guys in our culture, in all churches, not just in ours, I think in a lot of churches are are [00:30:00] scared of leading. They're scared of praying publicly and it's 'cause they're. I think the devil just keeps 'em feeling fearful and, and fraudulent because they are, they're just not being honest.

Right. Yeah. So it's fascinating. I mean, you've gotten a lot of heat in your life and I mean, I feel a little bit of it sometimes for saying too much or oversharing or saying personal awkward stuff and sharing my sin, but definitely we need more of that from Christian men. Than being fake and phony.

KYLE: Yes.

GARY: I mean,

KYLE: and

GARY: pretend pretending you have it all

KYLE: together

GARY: and pretending you have it all together.

'cause nobody does. And that's something that I, and it's, I'm still just realizing it and it's like, well, on how many people are struggling under the surface of actually looking like they have it together pretty well. It's. Very interesting.

KYLE: Yeah. Yeah. The more, I mean, you, I remember you saying it, uh, a couple months ago I was at your place and, and, uh, we were talking about how the fact when you, any anybody you get to know, as soon as you get to know 'em somewhat well, you realize they're not that great.

You know, everyone's human.

GARY: Everyone's human.

KYLE: So

GARY: human means that you are. [00:31:00] Sinful.

KYLE: Yes, that's right.

GARY: Sinful causes a lot of

KYLE: problems.

GARY: Yeah.

KYLE: But I do think there's something to be said for, um, like a lot of, I think there's a big swath of modern worship music that isn't, that is too focused on. Person and not enough on, not on God.

But on the flip side, the, the Psalms are filled with, um, commands to our feelings. And so I pulled a little piece from a, a sermon from John Piper. It's one of my favorite sermons ever. He's ever preached. Um, uh, talking about, uh, God, um, cares about your emotions. I think it is. Uh, and that's not the exact title.

I'll put it on the screen. Uh, but this is what he says. The Psalm book of the Bible is punctuated with so many commands directed at our emotions. Reread, love the Lord all use his saints. Psalm 31, 23. Let all the habitants of the world stand in awe of him. Psalm 33, verse eight. Let all the upright in the heart exalt.

Psalm 64, verse 10. Delight yourself in the Lord. Psalm 37, verse four. Rejoice in the Lord. Oh, you righteous. Psalm 97, verse [00:32:00] 12. Be glad in the Lord. Psalm 32 11. Hope in God. Psalm 42, 5. Give thanks to the Lord. Psalm 32, verse two, love. Stand in awe, exalt delight, rejoice. Be glad. Hope, give thanks. None of this is a testimony.

There are plenty of testimonies about the emotions in the Psalms. I love the Lord. Psalm one 16. There's nothing on earth I desire beside you. Psalm 73 has sweeter your words to my taste. Psalm one 19. None of those are a promise, but there are plenty of promises about our emotions in the Psalms as well.

He satisfies the longing soul. The humble will be glad. The righteous will rejoice when they see vengeance. None of those is a prayer. But there are plenty of prayers for the emotions in the Psalms, um, that you're, let you, let me hear joy and gladness, the bones that you have broken. Rejoice gladen, the soul of your servant, satis us in the morning with your steadfast love that we may be rejoice in.

Glad in all our days. So demands to delight. Love. Stand in awe, exalt delight, rejoice. Be glad. [00:33:00] Hope. Give thanks. These are not testimonies or promises or prayers. These are commands, commands directed toward the emotions, specifically the positive emotions of delight. And not just delight in general, but delight in God.

All of them love God. Stand in awe of God. Exalt, exalting God lighten God, rejoicing God. Be glad in God. Hope in God. Give thanks to God for God and I. Think it can be really convicting to read, hear this or read this because often we're just not excited about God and don't wanna delight in him or even have vocabulary that

GARY: to describe

KYLE: it, to describe that.

Um, and I think that's what we, that's the place we need to get to often and confess that and say, God. Like, give me a heart that does, you know, or today, if you're a Christian, already shift my heart that it is excited about those things because that's only the, the only thing that will satisfy, uh, us is when we do that, that we can, that's when we can [00:34:00] rejoice in suffering when we know that he's better and that he's eternal.

And

GARY: yeah.

KYLE: So I think feelings are very much attached to our faith.

GARY: Yeah. Can I read Psalm 86?

KYLE: Yes.

GARY: Okay. So I read this psalm the other night at the Freedom Session, the first Freedom Session grad we had, and it just. Yeah, I saw him 85. I was gonna read and then I ended up reading this one. I just think it's pretty, uh, pretty awesome. Hear me Lord. And answer me for I'm poor and needy.

This is a Psalm of David Garden. My life for I'm faithful to you. Save your servant who trust in you. You are my God. Have mercy on me, Lord, for I call to you all day long, bring joy to your servant Lord, for I put my trust in you. You Lord are forgiving and good abounding in love to all who call on you.

Hear my prayer, Lord, listen to my cry for mercy. When I'm in distress, I call to you because you answer me among the gods. There is an unlike you Lord. No deeds can compare with yours. All the nations you have made will come and worship before you. Lord, they'll bring glory to your [00:35:00] name. For you are great and do marvelous deeds.

You alone our God. Teach me your ways, Lord, that I may rely on your faithfulness. Give me an undivided heart that I may fear your name. I will praise you, Lord, for my God. With all my heart, I will glorify your name forever. For great is your love toward me. You have delivered me from the depths, from the realm of the dead.

Arrogant foes are attacking me. Oh God. Ruthless people are trying to kill me. They have no regard for you, but you Lord are compassionate and gracious. God. Slow to anger, abounding, and love and faithfulness turn to me and have mercy on me. Anyways, I'll end there. But.

KYLE: Yep.

GARY: Just a lot of

KYLE: being real.

GARY: Yeah. And just the idea like, hey, those who God will save, those who call on them.

Right. And I think that's verses like that in there that we've just. I feel like a lot of times they're glossed over. Right? It's like, no, if you, if you trust in the Lord and you cry out to him, he'll save you. Like, yeah. And we're all in the realm of the dead, left to our own devices. Right. So,

KYLE: yeah.

GARY: Anyways,

KYLE: uh, moving [00:36:00] on.

Do, um,

GARY: did we answer the question of the

KYLE: I think so.

GARY: Yeah. Okay.

KYLE: If not, send another one. Ask for clarification. Uh, what do you think about, uh, um, I'm gonna read a quote from Spurgeon on, on the title of Reverend, like, reverend a pastor, whatever, something like, what do you think of the ti that title,

GARY: I guess the idea of, so I'm assuming it comes from the term revere.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: Is that correct?

KYLE: Yeah. A revered, yeah.

GARY: To revere someone, um. I think that pastors should be in a put in a position of re of respect and honor so I can understand why the term exists. Unfortunately, I think a lot of reveres probably don't share their own struggles enough and therefore quickly become the Pope in our churches.

And that's a dangerous spot to be Yeah. As a person in leadership.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: [00:37:00] Um, people don't do well being put on a pedestal ever.

KYLE: No

GARY: ever like, no. I mean, even the little bit that I sometimes get put on one, it makes me really uncomfortable. I get really scared because when you're up top there's nowhere to go but down.

KYLE: Yeah,

GARY: that too. Yes. And I'm going there like, you know, I'm I, I know my own depravity, so I just think. I guess I hold it in both hands. You can read the quote.

KYLE: Okay. I just, so I, I got the quote is actually from, uh, that is in old English. So I asked, uh, AI to, uh, translate it into modern English. Um, but I'll put both on the screen if someone wants to read the old English one.

Um, I really don't like being called reverent because I don't deserve that kind of honor. Honestly, Reverend and Sinner don't go together, and I know I'm a sinner, so I reject the title. It surprises me that such a flattering label was even created, and it's even more surprising that some good men get upset if they're not called by it.

My dad actually, uh, who's a reverend or pastor for [00:38:00] Preach, just last sermon last week, which is cool to be at.

GARY: Thanks.

KYLE: Um, but he, about, I think 20 years ago, 15, 20 years ago, he switched. Um, he used to write all, like signature, all of his stuff with Reverend Berg.

GARY: Yeah.

KYLE: And he switched it to pastor after. Um, I remember talking to him about this, and this is gonna, I think one of the things that, I don't know exactly what sh made him sh shift it, but he changed everything too.

But he's like revered, revered. Gary Barr revered. If you're sounding it yourself, it's like you're rev reviewing yourself and he's like, I can't, can't do this. Like, so switch it to the pastor.

GARY: Yeah. I mean, a lot of people say that's being overthought because it's just the title that ministers are given in certain denominations, but when

KYLE: you do end up thinking about it and you're like, you're writing

GARY: it, you're processing it.

Yeah. I think that pastors, my experience has been that when pastors struggle. Which they often do and they mostly struggle in silence. 'cause like who do they turn to to be like, Hey, I'm struggling, other than I guess they're elders.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: Um, if when they do or whatever leaders in their church, not just [00:39:00] pastors in the churches where there's elders, pastors everywhere and all kinds of churches really struggle, um, it has like a real ripple effect and it caused a lot of hurt.

And so I'm just a firm believer in people that are leaders being, and when I say fit to be a leader, I mean just. Honest. Yeah, honest and authentic. And obviously not living in public sin or sin that's mm-hmm. You know, would detract from their ministry where it would, you know, be obvious that they shouldn't be in ministry.

Um, but I do think a lot of guys, at least my experience has been that they get themselves into the spot where they're the commander in chief and they're kind of controlling things and. And it's just, yeah, puts 'em in a tough spot. Right? And I think by default, people that are pastors are strong people and, and they are leaders as a general rule, not always.

Some are probably horrible leaders, but a lot of them are very strong people. And so their proclivity would be to be domineering, controlling, and maybe isolating and not accountable, right? So I think healthy church leadership would look like, [00:40:00] you know, strong elders. Really holding a pastor to account at the same time really encouraging him.

And is that done Well, it's probably done varying degrees of different churches. Right. But

KYLE: on the dom, on the domineering thing, it reminds me of, I don't know where it's from, but it's something about other church leadership or just Christians, that healthy ones at least walk with a limp. Like they've been ground down.

Right? Yeah. And, and made humble. And so that that domineering thing gets ripped away from you and, and, and you know, you actually humbled. Now again, with time, if you get a lot of, in a position for a long time and you're on a pedestal, it can, and we're all susceptible to.

GARY: You still have to be, like, if you're a leader in any church or any, anywhere, really, you still gotta be pretty tough.

And you definitely have, there's definitely a time. This, I think especially when you're in ministry, like there's a lot of wolves. Among the flock. Well, there a lot of people that are, are, need a hard word too. So it's that balancing act of being able to speak truth confidently while still being humble enough, acknowledging your own sin.

Right. [00:41:00] And who does that? Well, I mean, that's just not an easy line to walk, right? So,

KYLE: yeah. Or would you say tough or would you say more just like really believes in the gospel? 'cause if

GARY: you Sometimes really tough.

KYLE: Yeah. But that I think, I think there, there's. Two types of tough, right? There's a tough of just like being hard and callous and, and just like domineering and there's the tough of, I believe the gospel so much that I can be honest with someone and not worry too much about how they perceive it, and I can take criticism and not take it too.

Harshly myself because I know that I'm forgiven and redeemed. Right? I think that's a different kind of tough that might be perceived as, you know, harsh at times, stuff like that. But it comes from a very different place. One comes from insecurity and it's a big high wall, and the other one actually comes from, you know, love for Christ.

So, fair enough. Uh, what else you got?

GARY: I. I mean, you probably don't wanna talk about foreclosures in real estate. [00:42:00]

KYLE: Not really, no.

GARY: Okay. Let's,

KYLE: if people wanna, uh, just want to plug the recruiting though, if there's any employers out there looking for good, good employees, um, I think this

GARY: is a great place to find them.

KYLE: That's right. Yeah. Just like last year, year when, when, uh, someone reached out for the first time and today can advertise in your podcast for some, for some roles I'm looking to fill. You know, you're getting access to 750 people every week that are somewhat like us, you know, so we're, we're probably gonna show up working

GARY: better people than us, but

KYLE: yeah, probably gonna show up to work on that.

Work hard, you know, like I have, you know,

GARY: so like me, they won't show up for work on time. So you do not want 'em to be employees. No.

KYLE: I remember one time I didn't, I was like, work Jake's instruction and I showed up like seven ten one day and the next day. Uh, my boss was at my desk and, uh, he said, very calmly, that's not happening again, is it?

And I'm like, no, sir.

GARY: Okay. The expectation would to be there on time.

KYLE: Yeah. And I never was again, but I was late one

GARY: time. You, you're cheating your boss if you're late.

KYLE: Well, I would've wrote it down my time card, but

GARY: Okay. It

KYLE: wasn't like

GARY: you're still time.

KYLE: No, no, no. It was just that like, hey, like I expected to be, [00:43:00] I had in a position that I needed to be there as well, but

GARY: I, I, I think it's interesting too where people.

'cause I interact with And you do too with people that are, are working for people, people that are starting out in their career.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: And people that struggle per perpetually just over and over through life. And feel like they're being hard done by or people are succeeding and they're not. Luckily a lot of people compare it's human nature.

Right. And I spend a lot, especially when you do freedom session with people, you, they share very vulnerable with you. And, and people don't wanna admit that they're a compare 'cause it's, it's just embarrassing. Like, you'd like to think that you can be joyful when other people are doing well.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: But a lot of us can't.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: And. One thing I've noticed over and over is that those people are, they spend a lot of time looking elsewhere and comparing, and there's basic little things in your life where it's just like you said, like if you're just a little bit early and if you're a keener, like even the people that I see in this around me that are just grinding a little bit harder and just, just eager to please and just working hard, right?

Yeah. It's like

KYLE: it makes a big difference.

GARY: It makes a big difference. People are watching, you [00:44:00] know, and if you're a go-getter, like very few people are grinding it out, working hard and pleasant. And struggling like mm-hmm.

KYLE: Yes.

GARY: Right? Like that combination is, it does happen, and obviously things happen outside of people's control, but you can have a lot of impact over your own trajectory in your career or where you're working or even in your own business if you're just.

Pushing hard and people, people wanna support people that are pleasant and nice to be around and, and giving.

KYLE: Right? And the other way around as well, like working for a boss that's just like a hard ass and doesn't give a shit about you versus a boss that actually is caring and like, has good values, makes a big difference as well.

So yeah, I mean, if you're in either one of those spots that an employee or an employee and you're looking for a good fit or, um, on either, uh, uh, for a place to work or uh, for someone for a position you're trying to fill, reach out to me and I'll see what I can do. Um, yeah,

GARY: I think that's a wrap. Ka.

KYLE: Okay.

GARY: It's a moderately long podcast for two people who

KYLE: not really

GARY: Did not.

KYLE: Yeah. We used to cap it at half hour. We should go into [00:45:00] overtime though. I wanna bring overtime back.

GARY: Okay. For your Patreon people.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: How long are we at now?

KYLE: 40 minutes.

GARY: Yeah.

KYLE: It's good enough.

GARY: That's good enough.

KYLE: I was gonna say one thing, uh, whatever.

It doesn't matter. Send in your questions. Oh, live event. That's what I was gonna say. Someone messaged me yesterday about the live event. They're like, when's the live event coming happen? You could talk with happen.

GARY: When's it happening?

KYLE: I'm like, I don't know. Do you really want to hear just me and Gary bullshit?

Like, how, like no one's gonna be entertained by that.

GARY: They're like, we could bring good guests in. We could bring interesting people.

KYLE: Yeah. They, they, they were happy with that. They just liked the last event and, and 'cause I was putting That's

GARY: a social time too, right?

KYLE: That's why

GARY: people love

KYLE: social events.

Yeah. So maybe I still will put it on. Maybe episode a hundred. 'cause we're at episode 94 today, so that's in six weeks. That's pretty close. We'll, we'll see. We'll figure it out. Anyways, thanks for listening. Have a great week. Peace.

I, we forgot this.

GARY: This is, uh,

I've

KYLE: been drinking a beer.

GARY: I knew it was not about [00:46:00] Arnold. MCC didn't make you any more interesting.

KYLE: Day 41. Frick. I would love some big fatty today. Oh, goodness me.

GARY: It just will not help you, man.

KYLE: That's why I'm not doing it, but I still desire it. Do you desire sin?

GARY: Do I desire sin?

Yeah, I do. Uh, my, my drugs of choice is a general rule. Well, not gambling, I guess, but my drug, my, my drugs is a general rule.

KYLE: He's called the list in his head. Not that one.

GARY: No. But it's just like, I think of all the things that I go to, my most frequent thing. Like

KYLE: what would you, what, what would be your most frequent right now?

GARY: Uh, my phone.

KYLE: Okay.

GARY: Escaping a,

KYLE: yeah. I actually noticed that since I stopped smoking, uh, my phone, I, I'm way more tempted to go to my phone and food.

GARY: Food, I love

KYLE: food and my, uh, and, uh,

GARY: emotional eating. I'll even do fast now and I'll eat, or I won't eat for 15, 16 hours and just be [00:47:00] hungry and then eat healthy, but then gorge later, like, it's like, it's just totally emotional thing.

Right?

KYLE: Yeah. Yeah. I'm definitely, uh,

GARY: how long have you went a we quite a long time period. At different time.

KYLE: Last summer was 91 days. Okay. But then I was on. Some nice, genuinely good painkillers When I was off now your

GARY: back was,

KYLE: yeah, my back was totally done. So it's uh, I don't, getting

GARY: sober is hard.

KYLE: Yeah,

GARY: it's hard.

Just don't need to weep.

KYLE: Oh, I've been doing a lot of it.

GARY: Lots of crying.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: Yeah. I need to have a good cry. It's coming yet.

KYLE: Still hasn't come.

GARY: Come. Julius had a good cry. He sat on Sunday.

KYLE: Yeah, he did. I was right out there. Yeah,

GARY: you were there?

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: Okay.

KYLE: What's holding you back?

GARY: What's holding me back? It'll come. It'll come at some weird moment. I'll be watching a movie or listening to a song, so I'll cry at some point. Like the weight, like after freedom session, it was just like my head Fullers pound.

KYLE: Mm-hmm.

GARY: And sore and like this, like knot in my [00:48:00] chest and my stomach from just the weight of listening to

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: You didn't last the whole time. Did you say you left early

KYLE: Ubered?

GARY: What's that?

KYLE: Ubered. Ubered Home took order. An Uber.

GARY: Yeah. Can't.

KYLE: Too. Yeah, too, too. Uh,

GARY: it's so good. I haven't figured out what I'm gonna say on Thursday night, but we'll see.

KYLE: Say the same thing. Nicole's gonna do it. I like the fact that you didn't try to be funny this time.

GARY: I know.

KYLE: I was like, finally some realness.

GARY: I love being entertained. I not entertained

going golfing tonight for the first time. Oh, fun. Is it safe?

KYLE: Uh, it's gonna a three quarter swing.

‍

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