Why Do Hyper Calvinists & Muslims Describe God the Same Way? - Briefcase & The Barn - Ep 70

November 19, 2025

GARY: [00:00:00] Sir. Chill Lock

MATT: Chillowak. You were a artist. Chill Lock. Yeah. There's a lot of people there.

GARY: Yeah. But I mean, same amount of people as there was when Chill Lock had 40,000 people in it and now [00:00:10] there's one 10.

MATT: Oh, really?

GARY: Oh yeah.

MATT: Well there was,

GARY: I went as a kid,

MATT: right? There was fewer one like last couple of years.

MATT: This year was more than the last [00:00:20] couple of years.

KYLE: I've never had this weird look straight on look before you like my rubber make it quieter.

GARY: Oh, [00:00:30] I'm sure people get annoyed by the bang. It'll still be annoying even if we hit this, but it'll be last. What was it like before? Oh yeah, yeah. I need to glue it down.

GARY: Maybe [00:00:40]

KYLE: I need to

GARY: glue it down. Okay. How do you think the sound is? Do you think where this is gonna work? Yep. Yeah. I can't

MATT: lean back. We've got [00:00:50] sound. You know what? You do need one of those plastic things on the floor so you can roll your Don't talk from way back there. Hey. Like, make sure you stay like that.

MATT: I get it. Yeah. Sit straight up [00:01:00] without

KYLE: like, you're a complete slouch. Yeah. Don't slouch a

MATT: millennial. Seriously.

KYLE: That's,

MATT: you're a bit of a s This is Okay. ISN it.

GARY: Okay, Gary, you wanna open? Sure. Heavenly [00:01:10] Father, thank you, uh, for this chance to hang out with Matt and Kyle. Uh, three whacked dudes. That's what I would call this podcast, Lord, if it was a new [00:01:20] series.

GARY: Anyways, we pray that we would, uh, glorify you in all that we say that we can be entertaining while not being offensive, which is a hard line to walk. So just guide us and, [00:01:30] uh, just pray that we can have a great time together. In Jesus' name, amen. Amen.

KYLE: Lord

GARY: Amen.

KYLE: Welcome back to another episode of the Briefcase of the Bar in a series of the Furious security show where we're talking about business, life, [00:01:40] Christianity, and more.

KYLE: Thanks for being here. We got Matt joining us. Welcome. Thank you to everyone who subscribed. We finally went over a thousand subscribers last week's, uh, [00:01:50] podcast with Dr. Hawkins. Nice. Has, uh, popped off. Okay. Over 5,000 downloads. People resonate, rave reviews. Haven't watched it yet. Okay. The comments is mostly all [00:02:00] women, which makes sense 'cause it's about how men don't show up.

KYLE: How men are pathetic. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was, it's, it's cool to see.

MATT: That's your newest one. Yeah. I haven't seen that one [00:02:10] yet.

KYLE: Sanita this morning. You guys both went. I didn't go. I'm bad. Should've been there. I'm a bad, uh, should there? Yeah.

MATT: You should be out. Well, paying homage to the [00:02:20] people that served in the wars.

MATT: I like that stuff.

GARY: Yeah. Yeah.

MATT: I do. Did

GARY: you go as a kid?

MATT: Yep. I've, uh, I've,

GARY: I've always gone to that. My parents did. My dad in [00:02:30] particular did a really good job, uh, educating us about that type of thing. Political and, and non-political. Just even the idea of remembering people that died in the war [00:02:40] and, um. I just, I mean, my kid's hard for them to pay attention and stuff.

GARY: It's a bit of a long jaunt there, but I think our kids' school does a good job too.

MATT: It was a good crowd there. [00:02:50] A

GARY: really good

MATT: crowd.

GARY: Yeah.

MATT: In Chile work.

GARY: Yeah. And actually on the note of war, I think that, uh, have, we talked about this before, but I feel like, uh, I was curious to what, see what you thought, Matt.

GARY: I thought that we should, [00:03:00] uh, like if I ever do get into political office, I'm gonna push for a conscription where everybody has to do a couple years in the military, in our country. It'd be good for society. Oh, I think it'd be awesome. Everyone has to

KYLE: make, learn how to make their [00:03:10] bed and show up. Yeah.

KYLE: Yeah. And get shot at. Yeah. Yeah. Well that's if you're in war. No, I

GARY: just think, I mean, just if I was in leading the country, people would be getting shot at. Right.

MATT: I think you should start [00:03:20] conscripting the women first.

GARY: Yeah. Yeah. Why is that? Eh, just, you know, start with the weaker vessels. Put them at the front just to

MATT: make it fair.

MATT: Not at the front. Just evil. Not at the front. [00:03:30] Equal.

GARY: Equal. It's funny 'cause so I got the idea. My, uh, wife's grandma who's 90 Yeah. Brought it up the other day with me. She's venting about how pathetic uh. The young, younger [00:03:40] generation is now,

MATT: well, compared to her generation, including me, they were, well, she was more than 1935.

MATT: Exactly.

GARY: Yeah. Everybody was a savage back then. Yeah. And you had to be. You had to be. Yeah. [00:03:50] Um, but I mean, that's the point. And I think that's my biggest beef with how people coddle. Their children and coddle people in society where it's like everybody wants everybody to have character and no one wants them to go through a [00:04:00] hard thing.

GARY: It's like, it's just, it's not gonna work. Right. And then I said to grandma, I'm like, well, I think the women should be, uh, you know, I think probably just to be fair, the women should have be conscripted as well. Well, she wasn't sure about that. She [00:04:10] thought maybe they should stay home. And I remember being milk the cows and, and feed people.

MATT: Well, there's a bit of a movement now. Uh, it's, I mean, on the, I think the right conservative side down in the States [00:04:20] where women don't wanna vote anymore. Have you heard about this? Yes, I have. I see that. Yeah. Women are just like, we're full circle. Yeah, circle. We're done with it. We're sick of it. That is wild.

MATT: I wanna stay home. [00:04:30] I don't wanna vote. That is wild. Yeah. There's a bit of a YouTube trend going around, like all these women.

KYLE: I remember being in Israel. I don't catch the, my wife would not sign up for that group. No,

MATT: [00:04:40] no.

KYLE: No. Remember being Israel, is she a bit of a bra burner or what? She's,

MATT: I'm not gonna get a word in here.

MATT: I, this is, this is exactly what I thought would happen.

GARY: You're gonna be the silence and the sandwich. I [00:04:50] said it to Matt earlier. No, go ahead. Sorry. It's Matt and Gary talking all the time. No, I'm

MATT: sorry buddy. Go on. I

GARY: did think of that too as I was coming here. I thought, who is gonna do the bulk of the talking?

GARY: I thought it would be you and Matt. I thought I'd be the what you thought. Wow. [00:05:00] Yeah, I did.

KYLE: No, no self-awareness from Gary. Um,

MATT: I'm just internally praying for you both. That's what I'm doing.

KYLE: What I was gonna say was [00:05:10] when I was in Israel, they're like, where they have the draft. Mm-hmm. I remember like walking around Jerusalem and you'd have these, like these baby faced kids, 18, 19 with like m sixteens.

KYLE: Yeah. Whatever it [00:05:20] was. M fours or, and, and uh, they have to carry it if they're in plain clothes as well. Mm-hmm. Unless they dismantle their full rifle, which is a lot of work. So boats carry it in plain clothes. Yeah. And yeah, they're just walking around with [00:05:30] guns. That's why. And you feel super safe's.

MATT: That's why you see 'em on the beach, right? Like they, they've just got their bathing suits and stuff on and they're carrying a rifle. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. We [00:05:40] got a bunch of, might not get votes for that idea. Gary. You don't

GARY: think so? Nah,

MATT: probably not.

GARY: I think you'd be surprised. Really? Yeah. Well, we have two issues.

GARY: We have, uh, weak society. Yeah. And we have people that, [00:05:50] do you think

MATT: conscription will solve that issue of a weak society?

GARY: Uh, I think we're heading for it anyways. I think we're heading for a revolution.

MATT: I think you'd just bring weak people. Into the military, [00:06:00] that's what you do?

GARY: No, because the military is a place, I don't know how it is now.

GARY: 'cause I mean, it's been a while. Like I used to play hockey with a guy. Well if you see the lady that

KYLE: just for like did a big apology in Canada, [00:06:10] the head of the military because there was something that wasn't PC and, and, and so she was crying and, oh, just make amends for

GARY: it. Yeah. And so, but I mean if you look at the budget this year, and we didn't talk [00:06:20] about, we talked about how big the deficit spending was, but a big chunk of it is increased.

GARY: Uh, defense spend. Most of us would agree it was necessary, but apparently it's still less than what it's gonna cost you. The buyback, [00:06:30] the gun buyback. Is that in the

KYLE: budget? The buyback?

MATT: Mm-hmm. Settle line item. It's almost a billion dollars, isn't it? Yeah. It's ridiculous. Yeah, it's ridiculous. And they're not buying back [00:06:40] Matt's guns.

MATT: I can. And the RCMP guy said, uh, that it will make absolutely no difference to gun crime.

GARY: No, it won't. And it's fascinating if, I mean, you guys are, are you on Twitter? [00:06:50] No. Go on. Okay. You're a better person than me. Uh, I'm not on social. There's videos of shooting, like in Surrey and stuff now. Like people, it's just wild.

GARY: It's a wild blast out there. Crazy. If anybody wants to [00:07:00] pay me like a hundred K

KYLE: for my handguns, I'll, I'll, uh, I'll listen. I'm just kidding. That was a joke. Uh, okay. We got a, a question. Uh, let's hear some talk on what's [00:07:10] going on in New York and Michigan, uh, with their Muslim mayors. How do you feel about that?

KYLE: If he's

MATT: a real Muslim.

KYLE: How do you feel about that? We are comforted that God has all things in his [00:07:20] control, but should this concern us? I was thinking about this and I think it's when you have, like it used to be in the world where everyone, everyone had their own group of people, right? [00:07:30] Like you didn't have a lot of immigration.

KYLE: Everyone just kind of like, you had your tribe and everyone kind of thought the same. And now because it's a global world and everyone's moving everywhere, you have all these different cultures mixing [00:07:40] together. So it makes sense you're gonna have this, um, happen and it's gonna cause a lot of problems

MATT: if he's a real Muslim.

MATT: I mean, he seems to be more of a communist than a Muslim.

KYLE: [00:07:50] That's

GARY: gonna cause problems too. Yeah,

MATT: absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. He does. Or more so. Yeah.

GARY: Do you know where he stands on issues? Have you followed that a bit? A little bit.

MATT: I don't know what he stands on every in [00:08:00] issue, but he, he, he's a professing Muslim, but, uh, some of his stuff on like, uh, universal basic income is just huge issue.

MATT: It's just [00:08:10] communism. Huge issue. It's just communism.

KYLE: And he wants to get all the grocery stores in New York under the Yeah,

MATT: public. Make it all public. Like the bottom's gonna [00:08:20] drop outta the barrel if you're gonna be going toward communism or, or Islam. Either way. But how

KYLE: do you think it's possible something like that gets elected in the first place?

KYLE: Like, what's [00:08:30] happening in culture? Because I, I think it's a, a kickback.

MATT: Uninformed mostly. I think most people. You think so? Yeah, mostly.

GARY: I, I think, I always wonder that too. I think even in our country, in Canada, [00:08:40] and there again, I could see that, you know, people would not be. In favor of, of some of the conservative policies or just be fearful or like the idea of socialism.

GARY: But a lot of people are [00:08:50] still fiscally pretty prudent. Well, I think you still vote for less. Everyone

KYLE: under 40 is uninformed. They haven't experienced communism at all or in a world, and they don't even where that's happening, they haven't really read about

MATT: it. They [00:09:00] don't even know really what the tenants of communism are.

MATT: Right, exactly. But then

KYLE: also the cost of living is higher than ever. And, and, and the government hasn't done a good job of making sure there's [00:09:10] jobs and, you know, a good economy and all those things like that. So I think it's a, a response to that. All animals are equal, some are more equal than others. Yeah, that's right.

KYLE: Pigs, two legs. Two legs are good. Two legs, [00:09:20] four legs. Should it concern us?

MATT: Uh, yeah, I think it should. Yeah. Why? Because I think the ideologies that [00:09:30] are in conflict with Western values are becoming more and more prevalent. To the point where they're, you know, walking into places of power and influence. So [00:09:40] if right now we say, well, that's New York City, which is massive, you think about that.

MATT: Like that's the financial hub size of Canada. Yeah. Right. That's crazy. And what it represents [00:09:50] New York City is, is massive. And to have that governed by an ideology, I, I, I mean, I'm assuming the man's [00:10:00] ideology don't really line up with, you know, freedom and the pursuit of happiness. I, I think you're in for a lot of trouble.

MATT: And if that, if that's going [00:10:10] to influence. The west, it'll get to Canada real quick. Oh, it's, if it's not already here, it's already in Canada.

KYLE: Yeah. I mean, see how, how the

GARY: cities are run here. So I [00:10:20] guess I look at it like they're, they're just basically voting in everything that's been voted in federally already in the us The, the idea of especially fiscally, right?

GARY: The idea like, you know, people would [00:10:30] say, oh, we're not communist, but like the idea of spending way beyond your means ad nauseum. Yeah. Yeah. With no intent of ever getting your fist. It's scary in order it Well, it's already happening. Yeah. Which is why [00:10:40] gold is skyrocketing while, you know, a lot of other things are crashing.

GARY: It's like the idea of like, hey, people have no, the, the faith of the US currency is, is a large part, the bulk of [00:10:50] our economic system that all of us have is fi currencies. Yeah. And so I look at it when it's a big city like New York, which is probably a very left-leaning state, I would assume. In general.

GARY: Yeah. Generally, you know. Yeah. Buy [00:11:00] Bitcoin.

Speaker 5: Oh, shut up. You shut up. You shut up. I invited you here. You shut up. Bitcoin is tank tanking. Eh? Like it's down. It's just [00:11:10] another. It's,

MATT: it's a gimmick.

Speaker 5: It's a gimmick. I think it's another

MATT: gimmick. I mean, I own Bitcoin, but it's just a gimmick.

Speaker 5: Okay. You do like gi, you're

KYLE: a gimmick.

MATT: Yeah, right. I like trying [00:11:20] those things, but

KYLE: mailbag question. Yeah, I we're switching topics here.

MATT: Wow, that's, that's an abrupt face. That's

KYLE: how guy is. Next section. Next I got, I board half a

Speaker 5: [00:11:30] listener to board too right now. Item number three. Keep going. Anything else you guys

GARY: wanna add to that? No, we're good.

GARY: This is very fine. I'm glad I have somebody that's on my side. I [00:11:40] feel quite outnumbered when it's just me against Kyle.

MATT: You know what it feels like here? Communism, like you're running everything

KYLE: mailbag. I have had trouble believing that [00:11:50] we as reformed people oh boy, are taught, this is a quote from Kelvin.

KYLE: This is the quote from Calvin. God arranges all things, but this is what [00:12:00] Gary does when he like, he can't handle it. He avoids those on his phone. No, no, no. I have all, I have the whole prepared, uh, prepared, I prepared statement. Okay. Sorry. I'll read this again. Yeah. This is the mailbag. I have had trouble believing [00:12:10] what we as reform people are taught.

KYLE: This is a quote from John Calvin. God arranges all things by his sovereign counsel in such a way that individuals are born, [00:12:20] we are doomed from the womb to certain death and are to glorify him by their destruction.

MATT: You must have read that wrong. That doesn't sound right. That last sentence, try [00:12:30] again.

KYLE: And are to glorify him by their destruct.

KYLE: That's what, can I read it? Yeah, you can. I'll just read the rest of the thing first. How does God hold people responsible for [00:12:40] not believing in him who he created with no chance of believing in him since they are doomed from the womb? Quote, is Jesus not being genuine when he says he wants all to be saved?

KYLE: I might [00:12:50] be one of the ones who doesn't trust the church that you spoke about on our last podcast. Something is off with our beliefs. I dunno what church I talked about, but

MATT: I'm the odd duck out here. [00:13:00] Why? No, you're part of it. Well, you, you guys are Calvinists, which means I think you are both equally wrong.

KYLE: [00:13:10] So what I, some quotes that come to mind is that Pharaoh, um, uh, somewhere, is it Ro Romans nine as well. That the questions,

MATT: the question particularly [00:13:20] asks that, you know, how, how is it that God can be this way if Jesus says something different? Is that right? Did I miss, did I mishear that? You know, how can we be Problem

GARY: is [00:13:30] starting with a quote from an old, from a person.

GARY: Yeah. That's the, the first flaw.

KYLE: But the, the question is, how can we be responsible for not [00:13:40] believing in Jesus when God has preordained us to be doomed from the womb? That's the question. Go ahead, Matt. [00:13:50] Well, uh, I know you're just bitching first. No, not

MATT: at all. Not at all. I'm salivating. No. Do you believe that, uh, do you believe that last [00:14:00] point that God has, that you are doomed, that God's doomed people from the womb?

GARY: I would never word it that way.

MATT: Okay. [00:14:10] So word, however you want. Do you agree

GARY: with it? Well, here's the thing that you can. And I know where the question comes from and people take this theology, and this is the problem with [00:14:20] parsing out whatever pieces of the Bible you want. You can defend some things which are heretical.

GARY: Yeah. If you don't include all the scripture. Right. And so, [00:14:30] fair enough. My experience has been over and over in the last few years, especially where people hyper-focus on verses. And it's fascinating if you start to talk to people from different [00:14:40] churches and you know the, whether it be ours or other churches or you know, somebody, let's say from a reform church, they just emphasize certain things way more.

GARY: And if you emphasize [00:14:50] certain things like. God's sovereignty or the idea of, you know, or you know, where it says in the Bible, Hey, God does choose certain people. It says it very plainly. I mean, I could pull up those verses, but you [00:15:00] ignore all the verses of, you know, and I'm just gonna read them if that's all right.

GARY: 'cause I kind of like, where are you starting from when you ask this question? Are you like, the bigger thing is if you, if [00:15:10] you are questioning whether you can be saved or whether the idea of God has chosen you or not, the bigger question to ask is, do you wanna be saved? Yeah. Well, and the real [00:15:20] answer is 'cause I know, 'cause we're on that.

GARY: I would agree.

MATT: Yeah. I would 100% agree. That last point,

GARY: so I guess where I'm coming from is it's the idea of people [00:15:30] who live in a hyper Calvinist culture, right? They start from a spot of, look, most of them are looking for an excuse while yet finding comfort [00:15:40] in an unsaved state, right? Mm. Which is a horrible, horrible spot to be in.

GARY: It's really dangerous. I can't comment, right? This is frustrating. You don't understand that. I don't understand it. So I mean, no, because you don't, first of [00:15:50] all. You probably, you don't believe that different than us. I mean, it's fun to make to joke it. No, that's right. We don't, but we, we both believe that only Jesus saves, right?

GARY: Absolutely. The cross is necessary. [00:16:00] I guess the other question is absolutely necessary. This is the bigger question, and this what I would ask. Do you believe that anybody would call out to God to be saved and not be saved?

MATT: [00:16:10] No. No. No. So I believe that if any person calls out to the Lord to be saved according to the promises of scripture, that they can be, they would be

GARY: and they would be one of the elect.

GARY: Yeah. That's what you would agree. The [00:16:20] elect is correct. How do you know if it's genuine calling out or not?

MATT: Well, I, I don't, but whether I know or not is irrelevant. No.

GARY: And that's why the Bible, this is where all the texts matter, right? Yeah. Because there are [00:16:30] verses that I agree that say there will be people that cry out to Lord.

GARY: And he'll say, I never knew you. And it said, and scripture says, seek out your salvation with fear and trembling. Like all the verses matter. [00:16:40]

MATT: Hang on for a second. Sorry. It doesn't say that there will be people that cry out to the Lord. It says that they will come to him and say, did we not do, did we not do, did we not do?

MATT: And he'll say, get away from me. I never, and you workers of [00:16:50] iniquity. I never knew. Yeah.

GARY: So sorry, I'm butchering the text. I should actually, but I guess I looked at, you said, why do

MATT: you call me Lord and not do what I say? So that's true. Yeah. Yeah. I [00:17:00] think, oh, sorry.

KYLE: So my take would be that when if we get to heaven and we're not saved, we won't be able to say, you didn't choose me.

KYLE: God will say, you didn't want me.

MATT: If you like, we, you won't get to heaven if you're not [00:17:10] saved.

KYLE: Like when we're standing for the judgment seat. Oh, right. Okay. Yeah. Uh, and, and like it won't be because we're not elected. That comes back. There's no excuse. Like we, we actively resist the Holy [00:17:20] Spirit. Um, and don't, and don't want to be saved.

KYLE: And so we are responsible.

MATT: I don't wanna frustrate the person, leave the person frustrated that asked the question. So their question [00:17:30] was more around the nature of God, right? So no, it

GARY: was way more about something that Calvin taught. And that's what, that's what, that's where I, which was the nature

MATT: of God.

MATT: Let me, yeah, I do need to read it. That's good. [00:17:40]

KYLE: But, um, it's interesting. Before, uh, Gary was on time for this podcast. So me and Matt had a chance to talk for 45 minutes a, a little bit beforehand, but Gary was late. We were [00:17:50] talking about how, um, when Adam and Eve before they sinned, why did they choose to sin if they were perfect?

KYLE: It doesn't [00:18:00] say perfect, but they were, they're very good. They were good. But, but why did they, and it's because they had free will to choose good or bad. Um, [00:18:10] and that, and so that argument is what you shared with me. Maybe you can articulate what you were saying there. 'cause I'm gonna butcher it that. [00:18:20]

MATT: Uh, I, I can't remember.

MATT: I can't remember the point. I'm, I'm mesmerized by this question still. Okay, we'll go there. So, uh, uh, this is what I was [00:18:30] saying, Gary, this is what I was saying to Kyle before, um, this question. And you, I, I was at a podcast here before and you showed me a similar kind of question [00:18:40] and I said it like, kind of in passing, but I wanna say we're here in the lower mainland, right?

MATT: So our context is very, you [00:18:50] know, BC Canadian, Dutch, almost, especially on this conversation. But I think whoever wrote this question, if you're listening, I think it would [00:19:00] be very informative for you to look up what the tenets of Islam are. Tenants, tenant, the, like, the, the, the, [00:19:10] um, the doctrinal positions of Islam.

MATT: Okay. You'd be astonished at how your conception of God is [00:19:20] more like Allah than the God of scripture. And I only know that 'cause I've read them, read both scriptures. Like if you, if you [00:19:30] take God away from his. Loving nature, you're gonna end up with Allah. Like our God is completely [00:19:40] separate from the God of the Quran.

MATT: They're not even similar because of their nature. So you know, you can't, you can't have Allah as your God and just stick [00:19:50] across on the wall and call it Christian like this, this God that takes pleasure in destruction and the destruction of the wicked. That's not our God. It's the [00:20:00] Bible tells us I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked.

MATT: So, you know, I would advise you, be careful whoever wrote this [00:20:10] question with all due respect, be careful that the conception of God you have is not without his loving nature, because that's who God is according to our scriptures. God [00:20:20] is pure love. So if you remove him from that, you are going to end up with a conception of God.

MATT: That's an idol.

KYLE: So, so this person, I think would argue. Uh, he's [00:20:30] loving for the elect.

MATT: Yeah, but that's not scripture that nowhere in scripture does it say God only loves the elect. Find me one verse. It's not there. I'll [00:20:40] spoil it for you so you can, you can make the assumption if you choose to. I just don't understand why you choose to.

MATT: So we're not, I don't think we'll solve the [00:20:50] 2000 year old debate here in this podcast, but I, I, I, right. I just think it's silly. We were, I think it's silly. I thought we were, if

GARY: we can't I quit. No, [00:21:00] I can I, I read verse I think, I think it's silly. I'm gonna read a few verses. Go ahead. Okay. Because I, I,

MATT: I wish I brought my Bible.

MATT: I never thought that you guys were gonna use the Bible. You are the last people I thought would use [00:21:10] the Bible. Oh, man. So true

GARY: and so savage.

MATT: I'm

GARY: joking. So this was like a big. This was a big issue for me when I, a young person. How [00:21:20] long are we allowed to talk about this, by the way? We, well, people can just shut it off, right?

GARY: Go listen to some other podcast about material things or something more important or people don't actually know what they're talking about. It's a free country, right? [00:21:30] Go. It's free so far. Exactly. Not free from all I know. You listen to that liberal guy, that hall, minister Hall and that person. That dude's scared.

GARY: I know.

MATT: I know.

GARY: Anyways, we don't need to worry. We don't [00:21:40] need to worry about him. Um, two Peter three verse nine. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promises as some count. Slowness, slowness, but is patient toward you. Not [00:21:50] wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Ezekiel and I just read this the other day 'cause I'm reading through the, this part of the reading plan that I'm reading in Ezekiel 18, [00:22:00] um, verse 23, also ECU echoed in verse 32 and 33 11, have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked declares the Lord God.

GARY: And not rather [00:22:10] that he should turn from his way and live, which is interesting because this is, you know, he's prophesying against these people. Mm-hmm. The paint over and over, right? Mm-hmm. And talks, bounces back [00:22:20] and forth between destroying them. And anyways, more than I can understand, to be really honest, I'm pretty confused.

GARY: And then one Timothy two, three, and four, which was a text from our sermon on Sunday and he did actually a pretty [00:22:30] good job. I actually thought we should play the clip from Sunday from Matt sermon in the morning. But, uh, that verse says, this is good and it is pleasing in the sight of God, our savior, who desires all [00:22:40] people to be saved and come to the knowledge of truth.

GARY: Um, and then the, the last couple here are John three 16 and 17, which are pretty famous verses. For God [00:22:50] so loved the world that he gave his only son that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that he would, that he might be saved through [00:23:00] him.

GARY: And then Titus two 11, for the grace of God has appeared, bring salvation for all people. And it's this idea of like, where is your starting spot? Mm-hmm. And when I was a kid, [00:23:10] teenager, unsaved, living a horrible life, even, you know, for a long time thinking like very, you know, deep thinker really. Mm-hmm. You know, listen to hundreds of [00:23:20] Bible classes and sermons and taught doctrine.

GARY: Always kind of befuddled by this, literally asking that question or wrestling with that question and then thinking. Like, and [00:23:30] this is awful, but candidly think, and that's why I'm so scared of this teaching, 'cause I think it does, you know what, what you're taught as a young person is, is very influential.

GARY: Mm-hmm. And taught sincerely by [00:23:40] people that were sincerely, you know, caring, not realizing if you skew too far one way, how that can become quickly. Like, I always believe a half gospel is a false [00:23:50] gospel. I dunno if that's accurate. No, I'm with

MATT: you on that one. But that's, and I

GARY: feel on either side, I feel like if you, you know, if you, if you, if there's cheap grace, there's no grace.

GARY: I agree and totally agree. You know, and, and on the flip side, [00:24:00] it's like, hey, if God, you know, wants, you know, people can't choose. Or if this idea of, hey, like, you know what, you just gotta sit there and wait. Like that's false teaching. Like all [00:24:10] over the Bible, God tells us what to do to repent, to come to him.

GARY: Right. And I think even in the way I grew up, and I don't know if it's 'cause of, you know, the idea of how our fathers are to us or what it is in [00:24:20] our culture. Maybe you didn't have this 'cause your dad had what? Met him? He's, well I I, I was vacant,

MATT: right. I wasn't at home.

GARY: Yeah, but you were as a kid. Oh, oh, you mean as a child?

GARY: As a child, you of God, [00:24:30] it's like a loving father. We don't, I have didn't have that. Right. I always thought it was just sledgehammer.

Speaker 5: Yeah.

GARY: And I knew I deserved to be smashed. I knew that. I knew enough to know about my own sin and my own life. [00:24:40] Even today, it's like on my own account, I'm done. Right, right. So it's fascinating how when you have that perspective, so when you have on the one hand of your brain is like, Hey, [00:24:50] God's out to crush me and I, and you know, the darkness of your heart and the sinful crap that you think of and all the awful things you do.

GARY: And then on the other hand, you know, you can't do anything and you need to wait and there's something's [00:25:00] magically gonna happen. You know, I. It's dangerous. And then I had another interesting thought yesterday morning said, so wait, lemme, lemme cut you off for a

MATT: second. Hold your thought. Hold your thought.

MATT: I won't

GARY: hold it '

MATT: [00:25:10] cause I'm so static. What do, so what do you do? What do you do with, like, you just said you were raised in a Christian home.

GARY: Yeah.

MATT: Okay. So you said, you know, and my

GARY: [00:25:20] parents weren't, weren't pushing that teaching. I should say that. Okay. Fair enough.

MATT: Good.

GARY: They, they would've been moving away from that to something a little more balanced, but it was very much the idea of like, [00:25:30] again, we're all on the spectrum.

GARY: Right. Like, and nobody's nailing it. Right. I think that's the other part of it. I'm not saying, so this is what

MATT: I, this is what I asked Kyle. I was like, so where, where's, because it's [00:25:40] true. Like you, you, you highlighted verses where God desires the salvation of all people. But you know, someone could, you know, pin me into the corner and say, how do you deal with these verses [00:25:50] on the extreme hyper sovereignty of, of God.

MATT: Right. You said there are verses that I've got gotta deal or even

GARY: un repentance sin. Sure. Like at some point.

MATT: Sure. There's [00:26:00] no, there's no hope.

GARY: I, I don't know what that is, but,

MATT: but like you said, that you'd have to ignore whole swaths of scripture where God, for example, the bulk of [00:26:10] the Old Testament, the Old Testament where Jesus, you know, is, is in the veil and you gotta kind of look for him, like in the Old Testament, you've got God the father.

MATT: [00:26:20] Constantly pleading, please turn away from your sin. Please come back to me. I look at all that I've done for you, like [00:26:30] page, after page, after page. So what, like how do you ignore all of that? Like you could almost open the Bible blindly and put your finger in anywhere and when [00:26:40] you'd look at it, you'd be, here's God saying, Israel, please come back.

MATT: The, to me, that's where

GARY: we're gonna do a series of that, Kyle. We're gonna each five times just what I don't understand that and see where

MATT: we're allowed. How do, how [00:26:50] do you ignore all that for a verse or two?

KYLE: No, I don't think to ignore it. They would say, well, yeah, that's right. But I have an an I have unable or I have an inability to turn because it's only God that can [00:27:00] change.

KYLE: Yeah.

MATT: But okay. This is gonna go on a lot. This is gonna go on too long. Where does that come from? Like, uh, it comes what, because that's not scripture. Like where you say, here's God saying [00:27:10] Please choose me, choose me. Choose. It's, it's an

GARY: overemphasis. Better than the opposite. You told me on top of the thing.

GARY: Yeah, eat it. Eat the mic. [00:27:20]

MATT: I hate the technology

GARY: where I was gonna say the, and then it trained my whole train of thought. 'cause it was interesting that the Sunday sermon, like you had posted that, and I don't necessarily normally look at the show notes, but [00:27:30] I had, and then I saw this question, you know, quoting Calvin, which there again a lot of, I didn't just

MATT: a second

GARY: ago.

GARY: Okay, well good for you. You're a better person for it. But just thinking there, sitting in church thinking of, you know how, well [00:27:40] Matt kind of, and he didn't get deep into it. He's preached sermon. Matt Sands preach. Yeah, he's done whole sermons on the of election and yeah, he's, he's very articulate. He basically.

GARY: I, I thought he, [00:27:50] he succinctly kind of summarized probably what we're trying to do here better than we are. But then I thought even of like our view, like when we, when I grew up, it was just this idea. And I know it's still this way 'cause I have people, you [00:28:00] know, wrestle with this, of this idea of like, is God gonna save me?

MATT: Right.

GARY: And it's like, you know, just this lack of any person, even though we were taught that you were personally responsible, right. Kyle wasn't [00:28:10] that we were taught. No. Yes, we were, we were. They would, I distinctly remember them covering, why did I ask you?

Speaker 5: Yeah. We were, no, I was,

GARY: I was, man, you were 10 years

KYLE: [00:28:20] behind me at school.

KYLE: Kyle let, no, I mean, I literally, I remember asking my mom, how come I've prayed every night for a new hire and, uh, gone to church my whole life and I'm not saved. And this other guy on the mercy [00:28:30] ships is, and she said. Because the Lord Jesus Christ wants you, but you don't want him. And I'd always gone to church thinking, I want it to be saved, but God didn't wanna save me yet because I haven't got [00:28:40] zapped yet.

KYLE: Like I haven't got, like, he hasn't chosen to save me, so nothing I can do about it. Yeah. So it's

GARY: interesting too. So where my thought went with this was we were taught, like we were really taught, or I was taught. You know, you needed [00:28:50] to be in the right church and that was whatever church the person said that was from.

GARY: Exactly. Which is really right. The right one is the one they were going, they always say we

MATT: have the truth. Yeah. Eh, which [00:29:00] is hilarious. Yeah. And

KYLE: needful. Yeah.

MATT: I'm not making fun of,

Speaker 5: you

MATT: know, anybody. I

KYLE: just An accent.

MATT: Dutch accent.

KYLE: I love the Dutch accent. [00:29:10] I wish I could do it. Um, what do you do with, I'm gonna stop here.

KYLE: What do you do with uh, um. John 3 36. Whoever believes in the son has eternal life. Whoever does, who does not

MATT: believe in [00:29:20] the son does not have life, but the wrath of God remains on them. So if you haven't believed yet, the wrath of God is also on you. Yeah. How can I disagree with that? Like Gary didn't say, [00:29:30] you know, you said for the son came into the world, not to condemn the world, but to save it.

MATT: The next verse is, for the world is condemned already. So our condition before God is unrighteous God and [00:29:40] condemned God condemned. The law condemns us. But Jesus came and told us clearly I didn't come to condemn you. I don't need to do that. The law's already done it. God doesn't need to repeat himself.

MATT: What he's done through [00:29:50] me is come to save you. So you know, yeah, I find it. The person is under the wrath of God because their will is [00:30:00] obstinate. So until they break and bend before the Lord, they're not gonna be saved.

GARY: Where I was gonna go with this and I'd just be curious on your perspective, Kyle. 'cause we were taught, you know, to be in the right church [00:30:10] all the time.

GARY: Mm-hmm. The right times. Just like the Muslims,

MATT: the right mosque. Well, it's where

GARY: you were most likely to be saved or that same thing. That was the same thing. But it's interesting. Don't, don't

KYLE: miss, because that might've been the sermon you got [00:30:20] saved. Well,

GARY: no, but on that note on, seriously, seriously, if you look at, read the New Testament, I was just pondering yesterday, and you guys know your New Testament better than I do, but like where in the [00:30:30] Bible are people sitting under the word being preached to being saved?

GARY: Paul was preached. Just literally God struck him on the road. Mm. Right. You know, I'm thinking of. Um, even the [00:30:40] Thief on the Cross is a really extreme example, you know, literally before his death, just seeing Acts two, acts two,

KYLE: the, the, the pH, the Pharisees, they were like, they memorized the first five books of the [00:30:50] Bible.

KYLE: I got preach all the time. They weren't saved.

GARY: Yeah. I'm thinking more just so like even where, how are people saved? And people are like, God just uses, God uses all kinds of crazy things who's going

MATT: through all kinds of places. Yeah.

GARY: Yeah. [00:31:00] So I just think it's, boy, soften your heart. And the bigger question, the the most important question is, do you want to be saved?

GARY: And what is holding you back? And what [00:31:10] is the point of where, how come you don't feel you can just turn to God and cry out to God to be saved? And are you actually, and it's probably 'cause of your teaching, it's probably 'cause of how you were brought up. It probably has nothing to

KYLE: do with the Bible or, well, I [00:31:20] remember saying those things, but then also almost never reading my Bible or almost like never praying.

MATT: Did you believe God? Why did you say those things? Did you guys believe God loved you?

KYLE: No, I was told there's your problem. I was [00:31:30] told specifically that's I was told the problem. I was told specifically that when someone says that, like I remember someone just saying it to their young kid and my [00:31:40] parents said like that was so wrong that they taught their kid that Jesus loved him.

KYLE: Why is that? Because he, you don't know that. I mean there might not be elect

MATT: you see you like [00:31:50] that is such a dirty satanic lie. You think of what he just said. So I didn't know that Jesus loved me because I wasn't one of, may not be [00:32:00] one of the elect. So where does doesn't

GARY: really line up with what we were reading in the book the other day where it says, while we were still yet sinners.

MATT: Correct. Correct. Exactly. [00:32:10] That.

GARY: For those of you that are listening, Matt's doing a lot of crazy ads. I'm telling you, it looks like the mad science professor. He's gonna start talking about Che trails. We next we're about this.

MATT: I [00:32:20] almost blew serious. We're joking about this stuff, but do you realize serious, it's a matter of, of life or death?

MATT: Destructive. It's a matter of life or death. No. It really is like not real. The nature of God [00:32:30] not getting that right. It's, it's, but

KYLE: I guess what I'm saying earlier to like, to the person that asked this question, anybody that might resonate with the, the question is like, start reading your Bibles. Like you saying to me this summer, Hey, grab [00:32:40] the gospel, John.

KYLE: Read one chapter a day and read it five times and actually try to like. Understand it, what it says. Yeah. Even

GARY: where I am, guys in the Old Testament, it's fascinating, man. The [00:32:50] amount of grace over and over constantly with the ridiculousness constantly. And that's all of us. Like all of us need that. We should all resonate with stupidity day by day and mercy after that.

GARY: Right. So it's,

KYLE: well it's [00:33:00] even a sermon I heard. Um, it was you or Fiona, but it, it, it, um, the first time God describes himself in the Bible.

MATT: Yeah. He is

KYLE: like merciful, compassionate. Yeah. Which I always like, [00:33:10] I'll testament. God was like, love it.

MATT: Slow to anger,

KYLE: super angry. God. Yeah. Um, okay. I think we beat this one.

KYLE: Yeah. The horse is officially dead [00:33:20] in its sins. We got, we got o we got ostrich call, AI bubble, uh, Donald Trump's 50 year. [00:33:30] If we start talking

MATT: about the ostriches. Yeah, let's talk about the ostriches next. We just, we're just going.

KYLE: Matt, how do you feel about the ostriches getting killed? Okay, so from what I understand this happened 'cause I know very little about it.

KYLE: There's a farm [00:33:40] in BC somewhere that a whole bunch of ostriches,

MATT: our government, can you listen, are a bunch of tyrants. That's what I say. Go ahead. That's percent,

KYLE: a hundred percent true. Who do you work for again?[00:33:50]

GARY: Don't throw, don't get them all sensitive. You'll start clowning. This is the most loose go's ever been on your podcast. Sorry. Cutting off

KYLE: buddy. That's there's a farm with OSS n [00:34:00] bbc and they thought they found the avian flu and then they, uh, wanted to get it retested a year ago. Yeah. A they wanted to get retested.

KYLE: They refused to retest. Yeah. And just forced [00:34:10] killing them because from what I understand, the government agency didn't have the humility to realize it might be wrong.

MATT: Well, you're leaving out a lot.

KYLE: Okay. So that's all I know about it. Yeah. Let's into context, Matt.

MATT: Last December there [00:34:20] was, uh, uh, sorry, John, last December there was about 400 close to 400, uh, uh, ostriches.

MATT: [00:34:30] And the ostriches there was bird flu that made its way into the herd or flock and I think 30 died or were had to be killed [00:34:40] off a year ago. And the rest of the herd developed immunity and they were fine. Like no health issues, everything. Oh, I love this. Nothing at all. Okay, so [00:34:50] CFIA, CFIA. Yeah. CFIA basic, I deal with them every week.

MATT: Yeah. Basically came in and said, no, there was a, a, a, you know, a [00:35:00] report of bird flu, so we have to treat it as though there was a report of bird flu. But the owners were arguing, no, there was bird flu. There isn't bird flu here [00:35:10] anymore. Like, these birds are fine. And they came in and said, Nope, it wa there was a report of bird flu.

MATT: So now we have to do all the same protocols that we would if any farm, uh, you know, had [00:35:20] any kind. And what is that

Speaker 5: protocol? Komal.

MATT: Komal. Yeah. Basically you gotta, or at least you know. A herd that size, it would be all of them. Well, it's here. Two in the valley. Yeah. Right. So, [00:35:30] so they, they basically went in and I guess shot them all like,

GARY: yeah, it said in the o they had marksman come in.

GARY: How, how are you shooting an ostrich?

KYLE: Could you imagine? I wanna know what the marksmen were.

Speaker 4: [00:35:40] Yeah,

MATT: I think it was Rrc. MP

KYLE: what I, what I found was interesting. This is similar. I had a, on Thanksgiving's day, I had a huge burn pile in my backyard that I burned, and it was just like all cedar. And it was, it was ripping [00:35:50] and uh, the fire department came out to put it out and, but it, like, it was gone really fast.

KYLE: So it was just like smoldering boulders and they sold up and uh, and they still went and sprayed it out [00:36:00] because it broke the rules. And it was because that's what the book. Told 'em to do. Right. There is no more common sense. It was just like, we have to do this. 'cause that's what the next thing in the book says to do.

KYLE: And I think that's the problem in [00:36:10] government a lot of times is people aren't thinking anymore. There's no room for that. It's just like,

MATT: well that's, you're being gracious. You're giving them a lot of leeway there, like Right.

KYLE: It's

MATT: worse than that. It's more than fair. They kicked them off their [00:36:20] own private property.

MATT: What? Yeah, like they basically booted them off the private prop. I

GARY: didn't know you were gonna be on this podcast, Matt, but I Oh yeah. I wouldn't have put this on if I knew, like, I don't,

MATT: to be quite frank, I [00:36:30] don't care about the ostriches. Right? Like, if I can eat them, I, I value them. Is

GARY: that what we do for the, do we eat ostrich normally?

MATT: I don't know. I don't know. All I'm saying is if I can eat them, I value ostriches. But [00:36:40] what bugs me? Most is that the government has the power in this nation to come and root these people off their own [00:36:50] property, like exclude them from it. They weren't allowed to return to it, the birds that they'd cared for for years.

MATT: Oh, and to add to the, you know, fuel to the fire. The United [00:37:00] States were asking to be able to test those birds because they wanted to know how, if they

GARY: were immune. That Correct. Yeah. '

MATT: cause, 'cause bird flu has been [00:37:10] ravaging the everywhere the poultry industry down there. They were like, we wanna put a stop to it.

MATT: But Canada was like, nah, sorry, because you know, in Carney's government Trump basket. That's, so this

GARY: is a really [00:37:20] interesting that probably true as well. This is interesting 'cause I have a lot of clients and friends that are chicken farmers and it would be, and I, I'd be curious, I haven't really asked their perspective, but I will now, now that we're [00:37:30] having this conversation on here, it'd be fascinating to know.

GARY: If immunity could be built. And I guess what I've heard, you know, is that when it does come into a flock [00:37:40] here, and granted, I mean chickens are probably pretty weak compared to a bunch of big ostriches. Hmm. But, you know, it, it basically does wipe 'em out or they really, like if, if CFI doesn't get there for three days, obviously it's carnage.

GARY: Right. [00:37:50] Sometimes half the Yeah. But it would be interesting to know if that, if I Immunity could be built up. Right.

Speaker 4: Well, and our

GARY: government is definitely against immunity. If there's one thing I know about the government [00:38:00] we have now, they're not about immunity. They are about,

MATT: I don't need to get into that.

MATT: Right. Yeah. Control that. Control control. It's, it's communism. Uh, I don't care what [00:38:10] anybody says. Like our government is quickly, quickly running towards communism. And what

GARY: made me think of this today is when I drove to socialism first and communism,

KYLE: is this budget gonna get [00:38:20] passed? 'cause they're like, there's gonna, it'll get passed.

KYLE: NDP will jump on board. Yeah. There's need two more votes. Two votes. Right. Although there's now some rumors, there's

MATT: now rumors from what I'm, what I'm [00:38:30] picking up from like, uh, uh, the guys that are talking on YouTube, 'cause I'm not on social media, but there are rumors that pretty good guy, very person.[00:38:40]

MATT: That's very impressive. There are rumors that there are members of the liberal par party, like Backbenchers and stuff that aren't pleased with the budget as well. The deficit

GARY: spending Makes sense. Makes sense. [00:38:50] If you were at all fiscally conservative, liberal, it's exorbitant. The spending is exor.

GARY: Exorbitant is exorbitant. It's ridiculous. But what I was gonna say was, if you drive to Abbotsford, and I've thought of making a video, if I ever don't care about my reputation [00:39:00] anyway, I'll, I'll do a public video. I'll get to that spot yet, Kyle.

KYLE: Okay.

GARY: At the coal road, rest stop is and at Wacom Road. It is complete carnage.

GARY: There [00:39:10] there is people camped out in their trailers. Oh, setting up businesses, working on the public land. It's a complete. Gong show complete dump. Who, what? Just [00:39:20] people that, just like, basically homeless people that have taken over all these public spaces. Oh, right, right. Yeah. Yep. And it's as a business owner who runs multiple businesses that pays exorbitant taxes and [00:39:30] exorbitant fees mm-hmm.

GARY: And license for everything. Yeah. And you get shut down if you do one thing on the wrong day at the wrong time, or you have a bit of a backyard fire and they send out, you know, like spend a couple grand to send [00:39:40] some firefighters out to spray out your backyard fire, yet they don't have the kahunas to go to those places at Coal Road, rest stop.

GARY: Mm-hmm. And clean up all this crap. I know. And let people that actually [00:39:50] pay taxes enjoy these spaces. Like, I don't, that is literally what's, that's what really pissed me. S if you're gonna be consistent and be tyrants, that's one thing. But if you don't have the guts to deal with the mess in the carnage of [00:40:00] these types of situations, like, anyways, I hypocrisy democracy of hypocrisy to quote,

MATT: I just two, just, I just just went and picked up, um, [00:40:10] oh, I read it years and years and years ago and I picked up another copy, Plato's Republic.

MATT: And he says that democracy is the worst of [00:40:20] the systems that you can rely on because it inevitably ends up being mob rule and they all end up, uh, just, you know,

GARY: what's the best form

MATT: [00:40:30] republic?

GARY: And how would you describe a republic?

MATT: A republic is where the people

GARY: No, he's totally fine.

MATT: That's what I think too.

MATT: Like I think you're being a bit Yeah, I think you're overthinking it. [00:40:40] Yeah. Could could be. I I do overthink. Yeah, you're too overthink. Makes sense. A a d sense, a democracy is the largest crowd rules, right? Yeah. They, it tips the scales, whatever, but a republic [00:40:50] is a representative government where, uh,

KYLE: yeah.

KYLE: Like the America is not a democracy. No, it's a republic. It's a constitutional republic. It's a

MATT: constitutional republic. Yeah. I mean, there are flaws in it. No [00:41:00] system's. Perfect. But, um,

GARY: wouldn't dictatorship be the most effective?

MATT: Yeah. Yeah. So he have a good dictator. He, he, he calls it the philosopher king, [00:41:10] or like in our.

MATT: In the book, the Republic, the philosopher king is the best model. But the scripture say the same thing. A, a holy monarch

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