What Do You Tell Your Kids About a Gay Family Member? - Briefcase & The Barn EP 103

July 8, 2026

[00:00:00] GARY: [00:00:10] [00:00:20] [00:00:30] [00:00:40] [00:00:50] [00:01:00] [00:01:10] Okay, nice. Thanks

[00:01:19] First holder. [00:01:20] What size is this bad boy? Large[00:01:30] [00:01:40] [00:01:50] [00:02:00] [00:02:10] [00:02:20] [00:02:30] [00:02:40] [00:02:50] [00:03:00]

[00:03:03] Is there a phone charger down there? Looks like there's one right there on the ground where that looks... Oh, no, that's, uh, hooked up to something else. Guys, right on the desk there. Right on the desk. [00:03:10] USB. Is there a charger here somewhere? Right there. What do you need, a USBC

[00:03:10] KYLE: or USB? The old one. Old one? Okay, I'll grab one in a second.

[00:03:17] No, actually, is, is that a magnet on the back? Yeah.[00:03:20]

[00:03:25] JULIUS: Yeah. I'm in the middle?

[00:03:29] GARY: Yeah. [00:03:30] Oh man, you even got your T-shirt on. I like it. Yeah. That's, that's awesome. I fil

[00:03:33] JULIUS: went and put it on specifically for this.

[00:03:34] GARY: That's awesome.

[00:03:35] KYLE: That's why you're taking so long.

[00:03:38] JULIUS: Did you even know I was coming?

[00:03:39] KYLE: I did, [00:03:40] yeah.

[00:03:40] GARY: I'll pray. Heavenly Father, thank you that, uh, we can record again today, I guess.

[00:03:44] Um, God, we pray for the Quick child that is in [00:03:50] critical condition or maybe has passed away, Lord. Just pray for their whole family, for everybody involved there and, and, uh, for their hearts, Lord. And God, I just pray that we would honor you today on this podcast, that we would [00:04:00] be, uh, entertaining while being, uh, not offensive, which is always hard.

[00:04:05] Thank you for everything we have. In Jesus' name, amen.

[00:04:08] KYLE: Amen. [00:04:10] Who's this? Quick child?

[00:04:12] GARY: Little girl off that, from the Quick greenhouses. Okay. Carney's daughter got hurt on Saturday and is in critical condition.

[00:04:18] KYLE: Whose daughter?

[00:04:19] GARY: [00:04:20] Carney Quick, who won the Outstanding Young Farmer Award- Oh, Carney ... him and his wife.

[00:04:23] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:04:26] GARY: Do you have a lot of stuff on the agenda today?

[00:04:28] KYLE: No. Okay. [00:04:30] Welcome back everybody. Episode 103- ... The Briefcase in the Barn.

[00:04:36] JULIUS: I'm back.

[00:04:38] KYLE: Yeah. They can't hear you, though. You're too far from the [00:04:40] mic, so it's fine.

[00:04:40] GARY: Oh.

[00:04:41] KYLE: Um, what do you got going on today, Gary?

[00:04:44] GARY: Just had lunch with my, uh, number one client.

[00:04:47] KYLE: Your wife?

[00:04:48] No. Oh.

[00:04:49] GARY: No, [00:04:50] my wife does not do business with me. Okay. We do not do business well together.

[00:04:53] KYLE: Okay.

[00:04:53] GARY: We used to work in the barn together when we first started dairy farming, and she'd throw the rake at me and run out of the barn and yell at me. "

[00:04:59] JULIUS: Yeah, and [00:05:00] I'm not making you breakfast either." "You're too critical."

[00:05:06] GARY: Can you picture that happening? Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. No. We did work [00:05:10] together well sometimes, but there was definitely ti- like, overall, like even if we're trying to like build like an IKEA furniture the other day, she like got this bed on the weekend for... 'Cause we took, we have [00:05:20] six bedrooms in our house all upstairs, and we split one of them, so we have seven bedrooms now, so our kids can all be in their own rooms.

[00:05:25] Okay. There's one monster bedroom- Okay ... so we split it in half.

[00:05:27] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:05:28] GARY: And, uh, she ordered bed from [00:05:30] IKEA, and she puts it together all by herself. Well, she's also handier than I am anyways, like, like, yeah, she's, she's, she was brought up

[00:05:38] KYLE: well. Me, me and Nicole can do it now. We can work together now, [00:05:40] but in the first 10 years- And

[00:05:41] GARY: not, no conflict?

[00:05:42] KYLE: No. Well, depends on the day, if I'm tired or something, but otherwise, no, we can actually handle it now. Yeah, so. Yeah.

[00:05:49] GARY: Yeah. We do... [00:05:50] What were we talking about the other day? Oh, my son asked what an affair was.

[00:05:55] KYLE: Hmm. '

[00:05:55] GARY: Cause he was just like, you know, you hear the words. We're listening to podcasts while we're driving.

[00:05:59] He's like, [00:06:00] "What's an affair, Dad?" So I explained to him what it is. Ask Kyle. Oh, just whatever. We all have affairs in our own way in our life. Yeah. So. Bad joke. Yeah, bad joke. But, [00:06:10] um, a great example to say, like, hey, ob- obviously, you know, keep it, uh, PG, 'cause he's a young kid, but-

[00:06:17] KYLE: Yeah ...

[00:06:17] GARY: for all our kids, right?

[00:06:18] And they were like really concerned. [00:06:20] I don't know if we had some disagreement or something, but they were all concerned about us or- Oh ... I'm like, because we do not, like Maria and I do not fight. I mean, Julius is in our house all the time. Do we fight? [00:06:30]

[00:06:31] KYLE: N- not that often.

[00:06:32] GARY: I don't know. You've s- any fights you, we've had, you've seen.

[00:06:37] KYLE: Okay. We had, we had a similar conversation yesterday, Nicole did, with [00:06:40] Malachi 'cause, um, my, my nine-year-old, 'cause he was, he ... Nicole told him, you know, he's learning more about, like, sex and, um, how all that stuff works. And, and, [00:06:50] uh, he was a- and Nico- so Nicole told him that the seed is in the guy's balls. And, but then al- also told him at some point that, um, uh, people get, uh, [00:07:00] pregnant through kissing.

[00:07:01] So yesterday he was asking like- Oh, so bad ... "So how does the seed-

[00:07:03] GARY: No,

[00:07:04] KYLE: so bad ... go all the way up?" So bad. And Nicole's like, "Oh, great. Wait, guess what she told him." But like- Back

[00:07:07] GARY: the bus up. Explain it properly.

[00:07:09] KYLE: You have to explain it properly, [00:07:10] yeah.

[00:07:10] GARY: One of the things that you learn in The Briefcase in the Barn is to use, uh, proper, uh- In The Briefcase in the Barn?

[00:07:13] Uh,

[00:07:14] KYLE: no Or in The Birds and the Bees?

[00:07:16] GARY: Birds and the Bees. A lot of Bs going on. In The Birds [00:07:20] and the Bees- Podcast ... podcast or whatever, they would say that you use all the autonom- uh, what's the correct term I'm thinking of, the proper body, uh, names for body parts and-

[00:07:29] KYLE: Yeah. And the [00:07:30] truth of how it works.

[00:07:31] GARY: Yeah, just explain it.

[00:07:32] It's not a big deal. Yeah. And don't wait till your kid's too old, 'cause it does get more awkward, I think, as they get older.

[00:07:36] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:07:37] GARY: I did the whole fire hose thing after I watched that. [00:07:40]

[00:07:40] KYLE: Okay.

[00:07:40] GARY: And then you left it- Just let off all the kids- Le- left it there ... just dropped it and just ... Ah, no, 'cause it, it- Done

[00:07:44] KYLE: my duty?

[00:07:45] GARY: Yeah. No, it keeps coming out, right?

[00:07:48] KYLE: What keeps coming out? [00:07:50]

[00:07:51] GARY: talking about sex, right? Yeah. It's everywhere in our culture. Uh-huh. It's, it's in the Bible. It's everywhere, right?

[00:07:55] KYLE: Yeah. Are you ready to talk about, um, your, uh, thing you didn't wanna talk about last week, which was jails are not that [00:08:00] bad, and you can't c- you can't leave?

[00:08:03] GARY: Well, 'cause I was in court last week, right?

[00:08:06] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:08:07] GARY: Not related to anything I had done.

[00:08:08] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:08:09] GARY: But for a real estate [00:08:10] deal, and then it just made me think of, I was sharing with the sheriff the security, uh, they were in high alert security at New West, 'cause I guess there's some East Indian guy that got whacked, [00:08:20] and it was supposedly, like, an inside job by Indian government officials, like guys from India, that they hired people to come here and assassinate him.

[00:08:26] Forget his name now. Anyways, so

[00:08:28] KYLE: it's just- This happened a couple years ago, a bunch of years ago, right?

[00:08:29] GARY: [00:08:30] Yeah, but they were having a trial-

[00:08:31] KYLE: Okay,

[00:08:31] GARY: yeah ... right now at the same courthouse that we were at, so there was a sheriff standing- Why is that not

[00:08:34] KYLE: all over the news? Political, political reasons?

[00:08:37] GARY: Political reasons, yeah.

[00:08:38] KYLE: Okay. Keep going.

[00:08:39] GARY: Yeah. [00:08:40] There's FIFA World Cup, right? So a big distraction.

[00:08:42] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:08:42] GARY: Um, but the... I was explaining to the sheriff how I used to be on the other side of the, you know, how I used to be in the bowels underneath the courthouse, [00:08:50] like you're in, in the ground. There's prison cells down there, and, you know, you don't obviously see them unless you've been there.

[00:08:54] And I was just thinking of, like, my whole experience of going to jail and just how, like, it wasn't... Like, in a [00:09:00] lot of ways, it's actually not... Like, you're well looked after, right? You get your meals, and you, you, you exercise. You have time to exercise. Like, now it's hard to find time to exercise, right? When you're in jail, you got lots of time.[00:09:10]

[00:09:10] Lots of time to read in jail, so that's nice, right? Yeah. I read a lot of books while I did my short little bits. Um, but the... it's interesting how not having your freedom or just not ha- not being able to leave is [00:09:20] so... it is such a punishment. Like, it's bizarre how... And I guess that's how it is for children, too, when you're a little kid.

[00:09:25] Do you remember

[00:09:25] KYLE: that? How, like,

[00:09:26] GARY: how hard it was for you? Yes, I distinctly remember that feeling. Mostly because, and I think that's why I am the [00:09:30] way now, where I don't ever get stuck anywhere, where I always take my own vehicle. I don't get on tour buses. Like, when we go with OYF, my wi- wife and I take our own vehicle.

[00:09:38] Like, no, this is too much like prison. Like, I need to be a [00:09:40] free agent, and it's unhealthy. Like, so. Yeah. So this last year at OYF, we intentionally took the bus to fight through my,

[00:09:46] KYLE: uh- Okay ...

[00:09:46] GARY: the issues I

[00:09:47] KYLE: have. Okay. We just got a second vehicle- All stems from

[00:09:48] GARY: jail, so ... again. Okay.

[00:09:49] KYLE: [00:09:50] So I can finally not have to deal with that prison feeling.

[00:09:52] That's, that's your

[00:09:52] JULIUS: minivan sitting there?

[00:09:53] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:09:54] JULIUS: Okay. I was wondering. Okay.

[00:09:55] KYLE: Trevor gave me a good deal, so. Oh,

[00:09:57] JULIUS: I'm looking for a minivan as well. Couple minivans, [00:10:00] actually.

[00:10:00] KYLE: Okay.

[00:10:00] JULIUS: I just thought maybe it's like, hey, maybe they need more space now. Maybe, like-

[00:10:05] KYLE: Is there another kid coming, you mean?

[00:10:06] GARY: Yeah.

[00:10:06] KYLE: No. That's

[00:10:06] GARY: what I...

[00:10:07] That was my first thought.

[00:10:07] KYLE: No. No.

[00:10:09] GARY: Getting prepared. [00:10:10]

[00:10:10] KYLE: School's done.

[00:10:11] GARY: What'd you do today, Julius?

[00:10:14] KYLE: Nice shirt, by the way.

[00:10:15] GARY: Thanks. Saw your briefcase in the barn swag. Delivered a lot of [00:10:20] hay bales. Okay.

[00:10:21] JULIUS: Went all the way to Vancouver.

[00:10:22] GARY: Okay. How do you feel when you're unloading hay? What's going through your mind as you unload hay?

[00:10:28] JULIUS: A lot of everything, a lot of [00:10:30] nothing. Yeah, anything. Whatever the day brings. Why'd we invite him?

[00:10:38] GARY: A lot of everything, a lot... Oh, he's, [00:10:40] sometimes he's got some real gems, right? It's mostly funny 'cause he, Lewis and I were talking before the show, we were on the phone for half an hour and just verbal diarrhea, like all- Oh, yeah

[00:10:47] kinds of interesting things. Talking about family [00:10:50] dynamics, his father-in-law, how excited he is to hang out with him, like all these things, right? Get on podcast, a little bit of everything. A lot of nothing. Yeah,

[00:10:57] JULIUS: yeah, yeah.

[00:10:59] GARY: Anyways, when [00:11:00] I used to unload hay, Lewis, I was pretty, I was a hurting unit emotionally, and I was just fueled by rage and anger.

[00:11:05] Just

[00:11:05] KYLE: push.

[00:11:06] GARY: Yeah. Fantasized about just, just destroying people and [00:11:10] people that had wronged me, and I was, I was pretty messed up. But I also used to unload, you know, 90,000 pounds of hay in one day, so.

[00:11:19] KYLE: [00:11:20] 90,000 pounds? Yeah. On a small bale? Yeah, in one day. I,

[00:11:21] GARY: I probably

[00:11:22] KYLE: spent more

[00:11:22] GARY: time- Or more than that sometimes.

[00:11:23] How many

[00:11:24] KYLE: bales would that be?

[00:11:25] GARY: Like, in perspective? Well, it was basically what would've been on a super [00:11:30] B load, 6, 700 bales, so probably 2 or 3,000 bales.

[00:11:33] KYLE: Okay. Just with

[00:11:34] GARY: you or-

[00:11:35] KYLE: A hundred pounds each ... were you ever a team, two, two or

[00:11:36] GARY: three person? I believe one person on each end of the, one guy on each end of the elevator.

[00:11:39] [00:11:40] Yeah.

[00:11:40] KYLE: All right.

[00:11:41] GARY: Yeah, it's a very unique skill set, and a lot of it is technique, so people that-

[00:11:45] KYLE: Oh, yeah.

[00:11:45] GARY: Like, I could still hop on and do the hay. I wouldn't obviously be able to do 90,000 pounds in a straight [00:11:50] shot.

[00:11:50] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:11:50] GARY: But...

[00:11:53] KYLE: Uh, got a mailbag question. What, could you talk about holiness? Why [00:12:00] does God insist that people stop sinning when our natures are inherently sinful?

[00:12:08] JULIUS: That's the whole question?

[00:12:09] KYLE: [00:12:10] Yeah. Could you talk about holiness? Why does God insist that people stop sinning when our natures are inherently sinful? Well, I think first of all, God knows that sin isn't good for us, and He loves us. [00:12:20] So He just doesn't want us to hurt our... Like, He actually genuinely cares, uh, about us as, as people.

[00:12:25] Even if you're not a believer, He does not take any joy in, uh, [00:12:30] an unbeliever's death or in anybody's sin. So first of all, He knows that it, I think, negatively impacts us. Um-[00:12:40]

[00:12:43] What do you think,

[00:12:43] GARY: Gary? I think 'cause God's holy. He's can't, doesn't want anything to do with unholiness. He, like, created a perfect world that [00:12:50] everything was perfect.

[00:12:50] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:12:52] GARY: And then meant we screwed it up, so. I mean, it's complicated. I think when you... To me, this feels like a conversation that could quickly err into [00:13:00] the side of trying to understand God's sovereignty, and I think that's a...

[00:13:03] I always feel like that's a dangerous place to go I often come back to the idea that there's [00:13:10] many... And there again, people get like super... Educated people in particular, but people in general, and not that you can't ask questions, but like I think when you're dealing with a perfect God and, [00:13:20] and God's sovereignty, there's just gonna be a lot of things that are gonna be a mystery on this earth that are like horrible things, good things.

[00:13:26] Like, just things don't... We're not gonna understand every last thing- Yeah ... as [00:13:30] simple human beings. And I think if we did understand,

[00:13:34] KYLE: I think it's- Why do you expect your kids to be perfect when you know they can't be?

[00:13:37] GARY: We don't expect our kids to be perfect. Oh, okay. We, we would [00:13:40] take moderate obedience.

[00:13:45] Okay. There's no, there's no expectation of perfection. No expectation,

[00:13:48] KYLE: okay.

[00:13:48] GARY: No. I mean, that's not true. [00:13:50] I'm sure it a- looks to them like there is 'cause-

[00:13:52] KYLE: I think it's easy to do as parents, expect yourself to be perfect, or expect e- people around you to be perfect. Yeah.

[00:13:57] GARY: Or like I said to Julius earlier today, I said like, [00:14:00] "Some of us like expect others to be perfect, but not ourselves."

[00:14:03] KYLE: Yeah, that's pretty common.

[00:14:04] JULIUS: I think though, I'm, I'm still just thinking about like that question there, and I think that a big part of it [00:14:10] is too, is just... Well, it says in other spots too, right, that the law was made to show us really how sinful we are-

[00:14:16] KYLE: Yeah ...

[00:14:17] JULIUS: and what we need. And I think that when we [00:14:20] come face to face with this, oh, be holy thing, a- and it's just a way to see how far we've fallen, right?

[00:14:26] And, and I think that if, if God demanded us [00:14:30] or was like, "Oh, just, just do a little better," well, then it's like, well, then what does... You know- Yeah ... what is Jesus for kind of thing.

[00:14:37] KYLE: Yeah. Yeah. Romans 9:3 verse 19, [00:14:40] "Obviously the law applies to those to whom it was given. For its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God.

[00:14:47] For no one can ever be made right with God by doing [00:14:50] what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are." Yeah. That's true, yeah. Okay. Uh, [00:15:00] another question. Uh, mail bag. "Hi, Kyle. Just listening to this episode about being gay." This is a few episodes ago. So

[00:15:08] JULIUS: quite a while ago.

[00:15:09] KYLE: Yeah. "Could you and [00:15:10] Gary dis-"

[00:15:10] JULIUS: You have a gay guest on?

[00:15:11] Huh? You have a

[00:15:11] KYLE: gay guest on? No. Well, you should have. Maybe, but I don't know. They haven't told me yet. Uh, "Could you and Gary discuss how people can [00:15:20] tell their kids that they have a gay uncle or lesbian aunt? For example, how can I tell my kids in a friendly way without being too explicit that they have a lesbian aunt, that we still love the [00:15:30] aunt and include her in our family, but her girlfriend is not welcome and we don't agree with the aunt's lifestyle?"

[00:15:37] GARY: Ooh, that's tough. That's a loaded question. [00:15:40] That's interesting.

[00:15:40] KYLE: That is a loaded question.

[00:15:41] GARY: Do you agree that they shouldn't... That people should not allow their- people from their family to bring their same-sex partner over?

[00:15:48] KYLE: No, I disagree with that.

[00:15:49] GARY: Okay.

[00:15:49] KYLE: I would have them [00:15:50] over.

[00:15:50] GARY: Yeah, I would too, but that's just my, my perspective.

[00:15:53] KYLE: Jesus ate with sinners, like, pretty explicitly and didn't make any qualms about it. I probably wouldn't let him stay over at my [00:16:00] house overnight in the same bedroom or, or, uh, a- and just, like, make room for something that the Bible, uh, explicitly talks against. Um, but

[00:16:09] GARY: I mean, [00:16:10] for- But to banish the people, to banish the people- Yeah

[00:16:12] as if we're eradicating the sin is, yeah, it's an interesting concept. That's right. Yeah. And I thought- I think it stems mostly from the fact that, um, if we don't know how to [00:16:20] deal with something, which is why it's a great question, um, if we don't know how to deal with something, we will naturally, um- Sure

[00:16:27] act, act in a, I don't want [00:16:30] to say necessarily the wrong way, but we'll just shy away from it, or we'll just ignore it completely, which is why so many people wouldn't even have this conversation 'cause they just can't process it. They're- Yeah ... if something's unnatural or [00:16:40] not normal to them. I think the homosexuality question is, um

[00:16:46] KYLE: Well, I mean, yeah, I mean there's several questions here. Like how, how people can tell their kids that they [00:16:50] have a gay or uncle or lesbian aunt. First my question would be why do you feel like you need, need to tell them? Like is it an age thing? Like at what point would you feel like if they ask [00:17:00] about it or whatever?

[00:17:01] And then I would just tell them. I

[00:17:02] GARY: think 'cause they have a partner, right? If they have the same s- Yeah. Oh, yeah ... stance, then it just makes sense that you would wanna- Yeah ... add some color and context, right?

[00:17:08] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:17:09] GARY: I [00:17:10] think we have a pretty o- like open home in our house, but I still think I haven't done a great job communicating

[00:17:16] KYLE: If I would have, if m- Yeah

[00:17:17] if one of my kids would ask me, I would just lit- literally say [00:17:20] they, they want to be married to another guy, and they're also a guy or- Yeah ... and, and- Yeah, I,

[00:17:25] JULIUS: I- ...

[00:17:25] KYLE: and I don't personally agree with that, but that's what they're doing, and, and, [00:17:30] uh, and I would just teach my kids accordingly, and I would sh- I don't know.

[00:17:32] I'd just be open with them about it.

[00:17:34] JULIUS: For myself as a kid, I think I was explained to it kind of that, yeah, explained to that way as well, where it's like, "Well, some, some dudes [00:17:40] marry dudes, and, like, that's wrong and that's sin," and that, that's what I was told. And it was like, "Okay, well some people do that, and-"

[00:17:48] KYLE: Some people drink too much.[00:17:50]

[00:17:50] JULIUS: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:17:51] GARY: Yeah.

[00:17:53] KYLE: It's e- it's easy to categorize this stuff. I think because it's, uh, awkward for people to talk about, it somehow gets, like, a higher rank. [00:18:00]

[00:18:00] GARY: Yeah.

[00:18:01] KYLE: I,

[00:18:01] GARY: I, and- I think the idea of, uh, any sexual sin, and I wouldn't just put, you know, this, this, this type thing in there. I would put any sexual s- I do believe that [00:18:10] sexual sin is very damaging.

[00:18:11] Yeah, true, yeah. I believe that our soul, it's atta- Yeah ... it's ex- I think sex is, sex is spiritual. I think that's why when people sleep around and do that ad nauseam, it [00:18:20] creates a lot of issues outside of physical issues- Yeah ... or practical issues. It's... I do feel like that's been my experience in life, so I think it is a really serious thing.

[00:18:28] Um, I just think the [00:18:30] idea of how we label people as worse sinner because of a certain type of sin, I think is, is really dangerous, and, um, I think that every [00:18:40] time we talk about other people's sin, which, like, we joked about earlier Juice and I did, but I think that in our house, as a general rule, and whether it be my children [00:18:50] sin or...

[00:18:50] I, I always, I think you can always bring it back to the gospel of how we are all equally horribly sinners.

[00:18:56] KYLE: Yeah. Well,

[00:18:56] GARY: literally- And so whether- Yeah ... I'm correcting my child, and I would bring it back to, "Hey, [00:19:00] Dad needs the Lord like you do. We all do." Like, I think you can always level the playing field.

[00:19:05] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:19:05] GARY: And so, yeah, we live in a culture. Our, our particular culture that we live in is, [00:19:10] is very, it's just completely toxic in this regard, where there's all kinds of stuff that has been excused and, you know, worse, I think, than some spaces. But in general, that's our society. [00:19:20] People pick the things that they deem important, and they create labels and levels of tiers of what- of righteousness and sin, right?

[00:19:26] So.

[00:19:27] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:19:27] GARY: Yeah.

[00:19:28] KYLE: Well, literally it was just the verse that we just read, which [00:19:30] was, a part of it was, um, "And to show the entire world was guilty before God." Like, it's not, we're not, there's no, uh, rankings. [00:19:40] Yeah. No ranking system.

[00:19:40] GARY: Yeah.

[00:19:41] KYLE: Right.

[00:19:41] GARY: Yeah. I don't know. I think it's, uh... I think our kids... The other thing is if we're all of a sudden, and there again, this is where I'm convicted.

[00:19:49] [00:19:50] If you're all of a sudden trying to paint something in a certain light, but in every other area of your life with your children, you're saying certain things, like, kids are really smart. So they'll see through the facade or the, you know, they're [00:20:00] they're not gonna all of a sudden, "Hey, we li- we talk this way about auntie so-and-so" or it's like, no, I think if you're genuine about, about where you're at in your own heart- And then you would say, "Hey, this...

[00:20:09] [00:20:10] They're not, you know, this does not line up with the Bible. This is not how we think- Yeah ... God wants you to live. It's not how we're living. You know, they're not convicted of this. Hey, they're not a Christian." I think it gets more [00:20:20] complex. Like, where I really struggle with it is where people call themselves Christians and they're living that lifestyle, right?

[00:20:24] And that happens, too. That's a whole nother level- Yeah, yeah ... of complexity. Yeah. To me, if someone's an unbeliever, hey, if they're an [00:20:30] unbeliever, they might, you know, get hammered on the weekend and screw around. They might sleep, sleep with somebody of the same se- like, whatever. If you're not a Christian, you're not a Christian.

[00:20:36] Yeah. And that's where-

[00:20:37] KYLE: Yes.

[00:20:37] JULIUS: I think, too, though, that there are also [00:20:40] people that aren't Christians that, like, do even some of the other sins you mentioned, but then all of a sudden when, like, someone's gay, like- Okay. That, that- ... they, they are under the [00:20:50] wrath of God. Like they are-

[00:20:51] KYLE: Oh, oh, yeah,

[00:20:53] JULIUS: yeah. Okay.

[00:20:53] Interesting. That's, that's, that's wrong, right?

[00:20:54] KYLE: Yeah, for sure, yeah.

[00:20:56] JULIUS: But then- Yeah ... for some, yeah, just excusing the other stuff, I guess.

[00:20:59] KYLE: [00:21:00] Yeah. It's funny, this morning I, uh, went to Regroup, which was, um, and it was, uh, Dave Currie's last talk. He's- Oh,

[00:21:06] GARY: wow ...

[00:21:06] KYLE: retiring from it. Um, so I mean- Who

[00:21:09] GARY: is taking on [00:21:10] that torch?

[00:21:10] KYLE: They're taking... So he's done, I think, like 270, uh, talks over the last bunch of years, and they're taking the top 100, and they'll repl- uh, re- re-, [00:21:20] uh, every two years I think they'll do them. Just re- replay them and still have discussions afterwards. Okay. Um, but, uh, it was interesting on some of the things he said.

[00:21:28] One of the things that stuck out to me specifically was [00:21:30] that he, um, kids will not do what you say. They will do what they see. Um, and you can tell them all the right things, but it- it's like, [00:21:40] it's ti- it's time with them and, and, uh, them. Yeah, and so that was... Anyway, it was interesting to hear his, his talk, and he basically just gave an overview of, of, [00:21:50] uh, put God first, life goes best.

[00:21:52] GARY: Is he, he's, I'm assuming he's gonna keep counseling. He's just, this is just one of the things he's- He's

[00:21:55] KYLE: gonna do a private pra- private practice out of his own home. So he's totally out of

[00:21:58] GARY: VFR. Stepping away. [00:22:00] Okay.

[00:22:00] KYLE: Has a new director and everything.

[00:22:01] GARY: Okay.

[00:22:02] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:22:02] GARY: Interesting. I wonder why he would do that.

[00:22:04] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:22:05] Well, he's probably close to 72.

[00:22:07] GARY: Yeah, but he's still gonna do private practice. Like-

[00:22:08] KYLE: Yeah, so- ...

[00:22:09] GARY: who are people gonna call? Well- [00:22:10] They're gonna call Dave Currie's private practice.

[00:22:12] KYLE: Yeah, I mean, I, I guess he'll probably defer a lot, and maybe the, the, the, the extreme cases he'll take on. Okay. I'm not sure.

[00:22:18] GARY: Okay.

[00:22:19] KYLE: Yeah. [00:22:20] Amazing, amazing what he's been able to

[00:22:22] GARY: do though. Guy's made a big difference in many, many families' lives. Yeah. He's changed generations- Yeah ... literally in this valley. Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing.

[00:22:28] KYLE: And it's interesting too, I always used to [00:22:30] think that the most effective counselors were the people that have had gone through the ringer themselves and come out to the other side, which I think there's a lot of truth to that.

[00:22:36] But Dave is actually an example of the opposite, where [00:22:40] he grew up in a very healthy home. If you descri- hear how he describes and how his parents raised him, and it shows.

[00:22:45] GARY: He didn't screw around. He didn't do the wrong things.

[00:22:47] KYLE: No, like he just- He's been a good influence ... stayed in his lane- That's amazing

[00:22:49] and he was just like, [00:22:50] and just a normal guy in, in so many ways, and still has a healthy family now to speak for it. And, um, yeah, it's, it's, uh, I think, I find that really encouraging. Yeah.

[00:22:59] JULIUS: I [00:23:00] wonder how he would then identify though with like, yeah, he probably deals with all kinds of crazy different cases, right?

[00:23:05] GARY: Where- He's still pretty good at it, I think, from what

[00:23:07] KYLE: I hear. Oh, very, very, very good. Well, he's very educated [00:23:10] and, and he's obviously gifted in being able to communicate and talk and, and things like that. But once you've dealt with enough, I even see this in coaching, you see patterns, right? Like very similar things show up.[00:23:20]

[00:23:20] So you know those things. Um, switching topics. Yeah, you,

[00:23:26] GARY: uh- Regroup is for anyone to go to. Sorry, can we just circle back to- Yeah ... Regroup? 'Cause if [00:23:30] you live in Chilliwack or maybe other towns, but for- Oh,

[00:23:31] KYLE: e-e- all over the world. There's people in Norway in there.

[00:23:34] GARY: Okay.

[00:23:34] KYLE: There's, like, a guy from Japan, I think, this

[00:23:37] GARY: morning.

[00:23:37] How would people get ahold of Regroup? This is b- b- Regroup would be [00:23:40] specifically for men.

[00:23:41] KYLE: No, they have a, a group, women's group now, too.

[00:23:42] GARY: Oh, they do?

[00:23:43] KYLE: Yeah. Okay. 'Cause women are almost as addicted to porn as m- as, uh, as men now. Okay. Or social sin, whatever.

[00:23:49] GARY: And they could literally [00:23:50] just get signed up, go to DFR website?

[00:23:51] KYLE: Go to, go, go to Dignity and Family Rights website and make an appointment with, um, one of the people there. Just reach out to them and say you're interested in Regroup, and they'll

[00:23:58] GARY: probably- And Regroup is [00:24:00] free. It's not- Free ... you're not paying

[00:24:00] KYLE: for

[00:24:01] GARY: counseling. No. You can go every week. You

[00:24:02] KYLE: can go every week, and there's- Awesome

[00:24:03] there, in-person groups, and there's online groups. Uh, I think there's three groups a week, three or four groups a week through DFR.

[00:24:09] GARY: Okay.

[00:24:09] KYLE: Yeah. [00:24:10] So.

[00:24:11] GARY: Okay. I know lots of guys that go there, and it's benefited them greatly, so.

[00:24:14] KYLE: Yeah. Just good to... Yeah, I mean, i- it, like, the-

[00:24:17] GARY: Everybody needs accountability ... I

[00:24:19] KYLE: r- I really would [00:24:20] love it everyone read that book, Unwanted, uh, by Jay Singer, um, how your sexual brokenness reveals your path to healing, whatever.

[00:24:27] Um, and e- 'cause it specifically talks about there [00:24:30] that something like Regroup on its own isn't going to fix the issues. Like, uh, it's, it's m- multifaceted, and there's lots of different things going on. But it is one of the [00:24:40] useful tools that are available to people. Um, and it's funny, actually. I remember when I started going back, this is about, uh, quite a few years ago, and I used to think that, [00:24:50] like, oh, like, all shitty guys go here.

[00:24:52] Um, like, I'm a piece of shit. Like, w- whatever, and I just did not... That's kind of my mindset going into it. But that's definitely shifted a [00:25:00] lot to be like, these are the guys that actually have the balls to admit that there's a problem, and they're doing something about it and consistently showing up. I mean, unless you got caught, and that's when you, uh, are forced to get s- [00:25:10] going there.

[00:25:10] But, um, but it, like, still, reg- regardless, I mean, you still have a choice then, too. Um, the people that admit their crap versus the ones that are like, "I'm fine." Uh-

[00:25:19] JULIUS: This is [00:25:20] just, like, a big accountability group, or?

[00:25:21] KYLE: There's a talk first for, like, 45 minutes. They, they have a great day to talk, and then there's, like, just breakout groups where you do talk about what he talked about.[00:25:30]

[00:25:30] Hmm. Did I, uh, cover that clearly enough?

[00:25:35] GARY: Yeah. Thank

[00:25:38] KYLE: you. Okay. You put a link in here, what we [00:25:40] talked about last week, which was, um, the condo bailout. And so you sent me an article, uh, from the Liberal National Post. "Carney admits he did poor, did [00:25:50] poor job rolling out f- 1.45 billion BC program planned as condo bailout."

[00:25:55] Um, and I seen that they were going back and forth a little bit too, that [00:26:00] Carney was saying that it was, uh, the BC government's idea, and that, uh, the BC government said it was the federal, federal's idea. Did you see that too?

[00:26:07] GARY: Yeah.

[00:26:09] KYLE: So [00:26:10] where's it at now? Is it going forward?

[00:26:11] GARY: Uh, I think it definitely is going ahead, but they have taken an insane amount of heat on this.

[00:26:16] I mean, I can't-

[00:26:17] KYLE: Not that, not that it's gonna matter anymore a- a- at

[00:26:19] GARY: all. It's [00:26:20] maybe not. But I, I mean, it builds on each other. And it's interesting for how much bad press the government would get. Um, politicians do not want it. Like, you know, they would expect [00:26:30] blowback- Oh, yeah ... from, like, people that are obviously on the other side of the aisle.

[00:26:33] But, you know, the Liberal government would not want, you know, left-leaning people to be skewering. And- Mm-hmm ... and the left-leaning people would be [00:26:40] skewering this.

[00:26:40] JULIUS: Mm.

[00:26:40] GARY: It looks like a total inside job with, you know, developers. And yeah, nobody wants... Yeah, nobody wants people bailing out developers. Like, [00:26:50] even though, like, developers probably need some help now, or maybe, you know.

[00:26:53] Uh, but it c- what's happened though now is it creates complete moral hazard, right? So when you have... And this happened in '08 as [00:27:00] well, right? With the big banks. Um, the government, the, the federal-

[00:27:03] KYLE: So if, if they didn't do that, like in '08. Like, let's say the government didn't bail out GM and didn't bail out-

[00:27:08] GARY: Or I think it's more [00:27:10] like the g- banks.

[00:27:11] KYLE: Or

[00:27:11] GARY: the banks or

[00:27:11] KYLE: that.

[00:27:11] GARY: Like Morgan Stanley and all these huge, you know, investment banks.

[00:27:13] KYLE: So you would... If you would've been in charge back then, you wouldn't have bailed anybody out? You would've let the whole thing collapse?

[00:27:18] GARY: Yeah, I think so. [00:27:20] I think it would've been horrible. Like, I think it would've been 100 times worse than the great financial crisis was.

[00:27:24] But now what we have is we have a-

[00:27:27] KYLE: You kick the can down the road.

[00:27:28] GARY: We kick the can down the road. And [00:27:30] anytime you kick the can down the road in anything in life-

[00:27:32] KYLE: Anything ...

[00:27:33] GARY: anything-

[00:27:33] KYLE: Anything ...

[00:27:34] GARY: a hard conversation, a firing, a hiring, whatever, it's always worse later.

[00:27:38] KYLE: Yes.

[00:27:39] GARY: And so this would be [00:27:40] a great example of that, where now the stock market is at an enormous high.

[00:27:43] Now, when the stock market cracks 2% or 3% or 5%, people are freaking out. I'm like, it theoretically could fall, like, [00:27:50] 50%, and it wouldn't even be that low. Like, that's how bizarre it is, right? But-

[00:27:54] KYLE: It will.

[00:27:54] GARY: We have a president that literally starts talking about how high the market is, like he's some kind of salesman.

[00:27:59] Like, it's [00:28:00] embarrassing. It's embarrassing. He's a shill.

[00:28:02] KYLE: Okay. Yeah. All, all, all politicians are embarrassing. And seeing the videos of Mark Carney this week at the, the Pride Parade. [00:28:10]

[00:28:10] GARY: It's just,

[00:28:11] KYLE: uh- It's just...

[00:28:13] GARY: Yeah, I don't know. Like I say, I don't-- I think, you know, people would say, uh, bailouts happen everywhere, and everything is [00:28:20] subsidized, and the government gives money to a lot of causes and a lot of businesses and a lot of nonprofits, right?

[00:28:25] So it's, like I say, it's happening everywhere. Yep. But I'm a, I'm a firm believer [00:28:30] in let charitable organizations do charity work and let government be small, small, small. Yeah,

[00:28:37] KYLE: yeah.

[00:28:37] JULIUS: I think too, like he's trying to like frame this as [00:28:40] like, "Oh, we're like buying these condos as like for affordable housing," and all that.

[00:28:44] GARY: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:28:44] JULIUS: But it's just like if you would just let like the market do what it's gonna do, like there's definitely gonna be [00:28:50] a lot more affordable housing than if you just pump all this money right back into it- Well, it keeps the

[00:28:54] GARY: prices high ...

[00:28:54] JULIUS: and, and bail out the developers.

[00:28:56] GARY: Yeah. Or like if you look at what the pri- the places were, like they were like almost [00:29:00] million dollar condos, right?

[00:29:01] Like we're almost giving more- Oh, no, like the high, the high end, yeah ... high-end like butterfly. You know, there's some buildings where they're like, you know, 1,200 bucks a square foot or something, right? Like and we're gonna buy these things [00:29:10] from Randy Developments and- It's gonna

[00:29:11] KYLE: 140 condos

[00:29:12] GARY: and Yeah. And people are gonna like put, put, you know, less fortunate people in there.

[00:29:16] It's embarrassing. It's just not g- We talked about it last week. I thought [00:29:20] enough, like it's not gonna go well. Hopefully they completely renege and don't spend the money, but there's probably already a committee formed and all kinds of people being hired, consultants on how to [00:29:30] pick the right buildings, and just a disaster.

[00:29:33] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:29:37] GARY: We're always looking to you for more content, Kyle. You're the, you're the [00:29:40] host. Julius is just along for the ride, right? Yeah.

[00:29:43] JULIUS: I'm not sure why I'm here. I, I thought it'd be... I thought I had pretty interesting questions to answer.

[00:29:48] KYLE: Oh, yeah, I, uh- Well, they were pretty interesting ... [00:29:50] pe- people need to start to keep, keep sending them in.

[00:29:51] Oh, yeah. I, I realize they, uh... You gotta keep reminding the people, "Go to my website. Um, you can send in, uh, um-" Anonymous questions. Anonymous questions there. I thought I did- Scroll to the bottom ...

[00:29:59] JULIUS: [00:30:00] I thought I did put in an anonymous question once, and I never got answered.

[00:30:05] KYLE: Oh, that's possible. There is, there is a few that over the, over the, um- That we would intentionally-

[00:30:09] two years ...

[00:30:09] GARY: not [00:30:10] answer,

[00:30:10] KYLE: right? Yeah, that I've, that I've kiboshed. Okay. It was probably some stupid comment.

[00:30:14] GARY: No, no, it was, it was just, it was- I believe, I believe-

[00:30:17] KYLE: Atilius

[00:30:17] JULIUS: asked- Yeah. I, I

[00:30:18] KYLE: don't remember ... yeah. Or you can just email me, email [00:30:20] me, kyle@furiouslycurious.co.

[00:30:21] GARY: And if you say that you want it to be anonymous, we would never share your name.

[00:30:24] KYLE: Yes.

[00:30:24] GARY: Or I wouldn't.

[00:30:25] KYLE: I never have. I don't know if Kyle would. I never have. Gary accuses me of sharing people's names- Well- ... [00:30:30] unsolicitedly, but I've never- Can you still

[00:30:30] GARY: see

[00:30:30] JULIUS: it yourself

[00:30:31] GARY: if it's anonymous? No.

[00:30:32] KYLE: No.

[00:30:33] GARY: Nobody can see it. Yeah.

[00:30:34] KYLE: There's no email. Basically, just-

[00:30:36] GARY: We

[00:30:36] KYLE: can tell if

[00:30:38] GARY: it's your question though,

[00:30:38] KYLE: Julius

[00:30:38] that makes

[00:30:38] GARY: the field... We can tell.

[00:30:39] KYLE: You can usually [00:30:40] tell what, uh, denomination it's coming- It's three paragraphs ... what background- Yeah, we can tell ... it comes from, uh, just the, the type of questions that come in, but, um, high, highlight of the week, highlight of your week, Gary? [00:30:50]

[00:30:51] GARY: Uh, hasn't happened yet.

[00:30:52] KYLE: No.

[00:30:53] GARY: Hasn't happened.

[00:30:53] We're just getting warmed up. Uh, we're going on- How about the

[00:30:55] KYLE: last week? Oh,

[00:30:57] GARY: you're going- Holiday. Oh. Going on holiday, yeah. We go on a holiday. Um, we're [00:31:00] going, we're having a Canada Day. That'll already happen- Yeah ... so it's too late to share this for people. Yeah. But we're doing a Canada Day, um, event, fireworks [00:31:10] display and all that.

[00:31:11] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:31:11] GARY: So you'll be at that, I'm sure, so that'll be fun. And, uh, summer, like I have a weird relationship with summer holidays [00:31:20] now that we have, like, five kids that normally are at school, and now they're all at home. Like, part of me thinks it's amazing and, like, we should homeschool, and the other part just looks forward to September 8th.

[00:31:28] What [00:31:30]

[00:31:30] KYLE: does your wife think?

[00:31:31] GARY: She would have probably the same relationship. I mean, probably more

[00:31:35] KYLE: than- I think most parents do. They're like, "Kids get home, there's-"

[00:31:37] GARY: Ah, some people just love it, and they would be fine if their kids were there all the [00:31:40] time, but other people have other- I

[00:31:41] KYLE: guess we have that, but we...

[00:31:42] Yeah, I guess nothing has changed for us really. Except for less things, like there's not Cherish Camp happening. There's no, like, sports happening anymore. There's, like, so there's just, like, [00:31:50] less-

[00:31:50] GARY: Do you do schooling through the summer, or do you give them a full break?

[00:31:53] KYLE: Well, right now we are, 'cause Nicole took them, give them a big break at the end of Christmas, after Christmas.

[00:31:57] Too long of a break, so we're still-

[00:31:58] GARY: Okay, you're- ... not done with

[00:31:59] KYLE: it yet ...

[00:31:59] GARY: you know [00:32:00] that you need to do some catching up.

[00:32:01] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:32:01] GARY: Okay.

[00:32:02] KYLE: Yeah. So.

[00:32:03] GARY: Okay. I'm a big fan of homeschooling.

[00:32:05] KYLE: Yeah?

[00:32:06] GARY: Yeah. Yeah, I have a lot of respect for the people that do it.

[00:32:09] KYLE: Yeah. [00:32:10] Um, what's, uh, something the business world gets right that the church gets wrong?[00:32:20]

[00:32:21] GARY: Um, I thi- this would be very different at every church, and obviously this is a complete blanket statement- And every business ... and every business. [00:32:30] Um, but I think often what happens at churches is that because it's spiritual, right, and it's, quote-unquote, "God's money," [00:32:40] that all of a sudden everything could get excused.

[00:32:44] I think things could get excused pretty easily, and you wouldn't be allowed to question things 'cause it's like, "Hey, this is for the kingdom. Like, you don't need to [00:32:50] question this. This is for the-"

[00:32:51] KYLE: The expense

[00:32:51] GARY: you mean? "... circumcised kingdom." Yeah. Like I think, I think that you can still ask, and this is something I struggle with, so I'm, this is like a personal journey.

[00:32:59] Mm-hmm. Like even with [00:33:00] non-profits, I've never really had this angle, but it's one thing that Paul Wieman, who's, uh, been on your show, has kind of talked about, and I read his book and, and I've read ... I just finished the other book there, the, [00:33:10] um, Randy Alcorn book. I think there's probably some real value in, in just like you're allowed to ask hard questions.

[00:33:16] You don't need to ask them in a negative way with a negative spirit, with a critical [00:33:20] spirit. But as a person that tithes or for sure like the elders should really be saying, "Hey, what are we doing here with our resources?" I don't think that churches should stockpile money, which I think that's one angle that a lot of [00:33:30] churches would think, "Well, we gotta have a healthy buffer."

[00:33:32] JULIUS: Mm.

[00:33:32] GARY: I don't think that's proper. Uh, I think that there'd be a balance of kind of like, hey, this is prudent. Now, churches that we grew up in would've had like [00:33:40] literally one person on staff, one main past- paid person. Everybody else is either volunteers and other than the church event on Sunday, you know, you'd have a Bible study.

[00:33:48] But there's not, [00:33:50] it's not the same as the culture, church culture that we're in now, where there's just a lot of different types of ministries all the time that are happening during the week that people are paid for, and I don't think one is necessarily better than the [00:34:00] other. I just think, hey, it's however you do ministry.

[00:34:02] Um, I think it's easy to keep hiring people that should be volunteered. Mm. That's another thing that churches would- Mm ... some churches would do e- too quickly, would be like, [00:34:10] "Oh, we'll just hire someone." No, like just put it out there that if we're- It's like hiring ... gonna run this. Well, it's because it's easy if you all of a sudden have a lot of money coming in, you could quickly just be hiring people, right?

[00:34:18] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:34:18] GARY: Um, now on the [00:34:20] flip side, you know, somebody might say, "Hey, like this is not gonna run well if we don't have somebody that's paid in charge of this." So it's, there's no black and white answers, right? It's

[00:34:28] KYLE: gotta be way harder to, I would think, [00:34:30] to fire people when you're in a church setting than you are in a business setting.

[00:34:35] Yeah, because you're

[00:34:36] GARY: worshiping together and you're part of your church family. Yeah. And now it's... So [00:34:40] there's that piece. Um, but interestingly enough, even in churches that don't have those staffing issues, they still have all these same weird things. Like, even in a church where people aren't necessarily hired, where it's a calling-

[00:34:49] KYLE: Yeah

[00:34:49] GARY: you [00:34:50] know, you would still have pastors maybe that have, quote-unquote, "worn out their welcome" or people would feel like, "Hey, it's very obvious"-

[00:34:56] KYLE: Or people, volunteers in different roles even ...

[00:34:57] GARY: yeah, or people doing the wrong things, like, that, th- that's where [00:35:00] I'm coming from. The hard questions can still be asked in nonprofit.

[00:35:02] There can still be expectations in a church, right?

[00:35:05] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:35:06] GARY: Um, the thing is, is that you have to do everything like you should in a business. You should do [00:35:10] exactly the same, but you should always do it in love. So I'm reading Trevor Throness' book right now, Power of People or something. I don't know. Oh,

[00:35:17] KYLE: he wrote a book?

[00:35:18] GARY: He, Trevor Throness wrote a book. Yeah. He wrote more [00:35:20] than one book, but I'm reading the one now for the second time. Um, and I'll have people that are in management in my businesses read it, but, like, one counter-cultural thing is, like, sometimes the best thing you [00:35:30] can ever do for the person is let them go.

[00:35:32] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:35:32] GARY: And nobody thinks that way. Every- especially someone that gets fired, they will be the first person to feel like they're getting shell-shocked, and it's the worst thing that's ever happened [00:35:40] in their life. But if you read a list of all the successful people in the world, and I mean, I don't have the book in front of me, but he gives great examples of guys that used to work in mundane jobs and then [00:35:50] ended up building empires.

[00:35:51] JULIUS: Yeah.

[00:35:51] GARY: It's 'cause they were canned. Like, they weren't f- they weren't the right person in the right job, or they just had growing up to do.

[00:35:55] JULIUS: Yeah.

[00:35:56] GARY: And so I think even for my own life where it's like, "Hey, I've been fired before," and, [00:36:00] like, people just need wake-ups and, and I think that the issue and what I see in management, 'cause I had, um, a meeting with some guys today that are in the spot where when you grow [00:36:10] your business from very small to larger and you don't actually know how to manage, like, you've always just done stuff.

[00:36:14] Everything's- Oh,

[00:36:15] KYLE: yeah ... verbal.

[00:36:15] GARY: That's, that's very common. It's not written, and then you get frustrated with people. Well, you cannot be [00:36:20] frustrated with your employees or anybody anywhere if they do not have clear communication on what the expectation

[00:36:24] KYLE: is. Yeah. Yeah. And that goes the same with your kids.

[00:36:26] Like, we're doing this parenting course right now- Yeah ... where you have to k- take your kids through a, [00:36:30] a routine to do in the morning, and the first day you do it for them. Those next four days you do it with them, and then they do it by themselves, and if they do it every day for a month, then they get a, we have a [00:36:40] prize for them.

[00:36:40] So we're, we're, we're doing golfing as a family. So we did this for a month, and they brushed their teeth really well and everything, but they didn't clean the counter. Uh, so the f- counter is full of toothpaste . [00:36:50] And so we realized it was like, "Oh, okay, we gotta explain all the little details of this step, and then they're actually gonna follow through on it."

[00:36:56] And then I was like, "Oh, this is exactly like in a business." Like, you gotta actually [00:37:00] define and articulate exactly what you want, and for some reason I think it's easy for parents to not have, not get that granular and just assume their kids are gonna know the details on how to execute on something [00:37:10] when they often don't.

[00:37:11] And, um, and, uh, yeah, I think that happens less so in a business 'cause you're just like, you know you can't yell at the person. Um, so you g- gotta actually [00:37:20] explain the whole thing, but Yeah. Yeah, churches are weird.

[00:37:24] GARY: Or nonprofits are weird. I always look at it like, hey, we're called to... And I'm going [00:37:30] back to how, why I take the stand I take.

[00:37:32] We're called to be generous in however God calls us to be generous. Yeah, we have to give with our eyes wide open, but I've heard hundreds [00:37:40] of people in my life justify their non-generosity because of how charities or church or anything- Oh, yeah ... uses the money. It's like, you know what? No. Like, how those people, what they do with the [00:37:50] money's on them.

[00:37:50] God just wants us to have open hearts, and so, like, that just means be pretty loose, right? So I don't know.

[00:37:54] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:37:55] GARY: Everybody would land differently there, but.

[00:37:56] KYLE: Right.

[00:37:58] GARY: Do you believe, Julius, that [00:38:00] tithing, um, would be just 10% to the church and everything above that would be to other organizations? Or do you believe that you could give your 10% to other organizations other than the [00:38:10] church?

[00:38:12] I've never really thought about it. Um, I think that

[00:38:18] JULIUS: No, I, I don't think it [00:38:20] specifically has to be 10% has to go to your church. I don't think, I, I- Even, even how our church actually does it, how they, like, they had kinda like their, their partners that they talked about, [00:38:30] right? Which I think the church does give to, but it's also, like, recommendations of, hey, like, these are good ministries to give to.

[00:38:35] And I think that, yeah, just look at the greater idea of the church, right? Where it's like, oh, I could [00:38:40] give to Cyrus Center, or I mean, I guess that's kind of associated with our church. But even if I wasn't, like, it's still giving... I think it's more just the, the kingdom and, and the [00:38:50] greater church than actually like, oh, I have to give 10% to-

[00:38:53] KYLE: But 2 Timothy also doesn't talk specifically about a tithe or a 10%.

[00:38:57] JULIUS: Oh, it's more of an Old Testament thing.

[00:38:58] KYLE: Yeah. It, it's more [00:39:00] of a s- why wouldn't you want to? Uh- Yeah ... st- state of your heart. Like, if, if you believe in the kingdom and that this is all gonna be gone soon, and that God is fully in [00:39:10] control of all things, then the more you actually believe that, it's a lot easier it is to hold what you have loosely.

[00:39:16] JULIUS: I, I find myself falling into the like, oh, I've given [00:39:20] my 10%, like, now I'm- Boxed ... now I have my- Now it's my

[00:39:24] GARY: money. Now it's my money ... FIFA tickets. That's amazing.

[00:39:29] JULIUS: FIFA

[00:39:29] GARY: tickets. Oh. Yeah. [00:39:30]

[00:39:30] JULIUS: That's

[00:39:31] GARY: human nature. Which, yeah. That's human nature. Freaking makes sense. Dutch

[00:39:33] KYLE: guys yesterday.

[00:39:35] JULIUS: Did you watch the game?

[00:39:36] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:39:37] JULIUS: Yeah, it was pretty bad.

[00:39:39] KYLE: So bad. [00:39:40]

[00:39:40] GARY: Were they the better team, the Dutch team?

[00:39:41] KYLE: No.

[00:39:41] JULIUS: No.

[00:39:42] GARY: Were they supposed to be?

[00:39:43] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:39:43] JULIUS: Uh,

[00:39:45] KYLE: barely. What do you mean supposed to be? They're supposed to be, they're Dutch.

[00:39:48] JULIUS: Oh, [00:39:50]

[00:39:50] KYLE: yeah, you're Dutch too, evidently.

[00:39:51] GARY: Yeah, the best. Self-professed. C- can't get into the soccer, guys. It's like watching a baseball game.

[00:39:59] KYLE: [00:40:00] You wouldn't even watch the Blue Jays- So- ... in, like, the f- the World Series last year- I know ... when I came to your house. So- Like, put the hockey on.

[00:40:07] JULIUS: Well, at least in soccer, you don't have [00:40:10] the commercial break, like, every- Yes ... five minutes. That's

[00:40:12] GARY: true, yeah. So the game is nonstop?

[00:40:15] JULIUS: Well, so it actually, it's 45 minutes, and then another 45 minutes, but the funny [00:40:20] thing is now that it's in America for this World Cup, they've, like, conveniently a- added a hydration break in the middle of each half- For

[00:40:27] GARY: marketing

[00:40:28] JULIUS: which is, like, a three-minute... But [00:40:30] yeah, just basically advertisement.

[00:40:31] KYLE: But the total time- It's legit ... of a soccer game is shorter than the total time of a hockey game, even though the hockey game- No, it's not ... has less minutes played. Oh. Oh, yeah, for the whole, for the whole- Like, hockey is 60 minutes. Yeah.

[00:40:32] Soccer's n- 90. Okay. But the soccer game is sh- total time[00:40:40]

[00:40:43] is shorter to

[00:40:44] GARY: watch. Oh, makes sense.

[00:40:45] KYLE: You don't have stoppage play.

[00:40:46] GARY: Yeah. Every single stoppage of play, because I fast-forward through every hockey game I ever [00:40:50] watch-

[00:40:50] KYLE: Yeah ...

[00:40:50] GARY: every stoppage of play is 30 seconds.

[00:40:52] KYLE: Minimum?

[00:40:53] GARY: Yeah. Like, it's almost never less than 30 seconds. Yeah. On a long, if they have problems at the face-off, it'll be 40 or 50, but yeah.

[00:40:59] [00:41:00] Sports is an interesting thing, eh? 'Cause it's like, it's such a big industry, but yet it's completely useless. Like, it's the- Yeah ... epitome of useless. Like, it's literally a bunch of grown-ass adults, [00:41:10] like, running after a ball, getting paid millions of dollars, and other clowns are spending their hard-earned money to watch it.

[00:41:14] KYLE: Yeah. Like, it's bizarre. Well, it's the best, the b- the best, the most talented ones, too. Like there's something to be said about [00:41:20] watching talent. Like you look at art, art is totally useless as well. Like what's the point of going to an art museum and looking at art? Yeah. It is totally dumb.

[00:41:27] GARY: Yeah, it's just a beautiful thing that we'd hang on our wall [00:41:30] and enjoy.

[00:41:30] Exactly,

[00:41:30] KYLE: yeah.

[00:41:31] GARY: God gave us the senses to enjoy.

[00:41:32] KYLE: Exactly. Interesting. I think sports are similar to that.

[00:41:34] GARY: Okay. Put in the art camp. And

[00:41:35] KYLE: you watch the Sedins back in the day doing their artistry on the ice. [00:41:40] Yeah. Interesting. You can appreciate it. They got that talent from somewhere.

[00:41:42] GARY: Yeah. So. Interesting.

[00:41:46] KYLE: You guys, uh, read anything in your, in your Bibles this week that stuck out?

[00:41:49] That, uh, [00:41:50]

[00:41:50] GARY: was impactful? Oh, I'm right in Acts. Acts 16. Interesting. It's very interesting to me Um,

[00:41:56] KYLE: anything convicting or like you feel like-

[00:41:58] GARY: Uh, [00:42:00] I need... I don't know if we wanna get into this right now, and I'm not well-educated enough to actually have a normal con- like, have a proper conversation about this.

[00:42:07] But I would f- I find it interesting [00:42:10] that people would be cessationalists if they read the New Testament. Can

[00:42:15] KYLE: you explain that word? 'Cause I don't even know what it means.

[00:42:16] GARY: Um, I'm probably not even pronouncing it right. But it would basically be the idea [00:42:20] that the, um, gifts of the spirit like, you know, prophesying, evangel- um, prophesying, speaking in tongues, all these different gifts, that they stopped after the [00:42:30] New Testament church.

[00:42:30] So that, like, we were definitely raised in a culture where they were, like, more than stopped, like, they were done, done.

[00:42:35] KYLE: Yeah,

[00:42:36] GARY: yeah. Right? Yeah. Now, the church we go to would be much, you know, [00:42:40] it would hold that much more openly. There would obviously be people there that would probably fall a bit more in that camp.

[00:42:44] Um, but I guess I'm just reading through it and reading about Paul and, and [00:42:50] Barnabas, and all the things that are happening there in that, and I'm like, well, yeah, there's nowhere in the... Or at least I haven't read it yet, may- and somebody would have an argument for this that's listening to this probably, 'cause there are people that really would disagree [00:43:00] with this.

[00:43:00] But, like, there's nowhere that you read where all of a sudden- It was over? ... hey, this is over. Like, no, this stopped and God quit using these means, right? And I mean, I [00:43:10] think what, to me, and this again, this is my perspective, and I'm starting to see it. I feel like I'm seeing it clearer as I get older and have been to many different churches.

[00:43:17] What often happens is as soon as something is [00:43:20] abused spiritually, then people that are prudent will change it, but then often the pendulum swings far. And so- Hmm ... you know, I don't-- I would... Actually, I was [00:43:30] talking to someone else about this in the last day or two. Can't remember who it was now, but, um, they said, like, even John Calvin and his writings and other reformers were not [00:43:40] cessationalists to the degree that people are in our churches today.

[00:43:42] Oh, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. They were a lot more open-minded to these things. Now, they wouldn't have believed that it was the primary way that God would speak to people, which I would agree with that. It's through his word.

[00:43:49] KYLE: [00:43:50] Mm-hmm.

[00:43:50] GARY: Um, but it's interesting to me now how we've completely shut that off in our ch- in, in our churches, and I'm saying that very generally, obviously.

[00:43:57] You know, there's a lot of, um... And we would [00:44:00] judge, you know, Pentecostals and people that are on the far end. And there again, that's what we're afraid of, where it's like, hey, you know. For example, there'd be churches where if you didn't speak in tongues, you'd be a tier two Christian- Yeah ... [00:44:10] which would be completely not biblical, right?

[00:44:12] Um, and that may not be... I, I guess I just think it's interesting reading through that how... Like, we read the whole Bible when we were kids, I [00:44:20] think. Like, I don't think they avoided particular passages, or maybe they did, but, like, it's interesting how you could, you can still cherry-pick or you can, you can definitely avoid talking about things and saying, [00:44:30] "Hey."

[00:44:30] Like, nobody ever stood at the front when I was a kid at... I mean, they probably did, but maybe I just don't remember. But they never said, "Hey, this is why we don't do this. It says here in scripture" Like, it was... Like, they had a sta- Like, [00:44:40] there was these theological ideas, I feel like That were stemmed a lot from fear and, and the idea of, hey, what they're doing over here is, is wrong.

[00:44:48] Yeah. And, and there again, I would [00:44:50] agree with that. I would think, hey, if... Like, I've hung out with people that are-

[00:44:53] KYLE: Well, it's like, it- it's a good, a good example of it is the music, right? So when the Reformation started, they wanna simplify, they wanted to simplify the church. [00:45:00] Okay. Make it just about the preaching of God's word- Okay.

[00:45:01] Okay. Yep ... which I can understand. And so they wanted to simplify all the instruments as well, so they were like, "We're gonna just go with the organ." Not out of that that's the only right instrument, but just for simplicity [00:45:10] reasons.

[00:45:10] GARY: But now it is the only right instrument.

[00:45:12] KYLE: Now it's the only

[00:45:12] GARY: right instrument.

[00:45:12] Which

[00:45:12] KYLE: is bizarre. And we're like-

[00:45:13] GARY: That's another one ... it doesn't make any sense. I'm reading, I'm reading through the word, and you read about all the different instruments. I'm like, where did we get the idea that we can't have these other instruments? [00:45:20] This is, this... I don't wanna say- Yeah ... it's heretical, but it's not biblical.

[00:45:23] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:45:23] GARY: Like, it's like everything here would say that we should be doing things quite a bit different in our worship than a lot of us are doing, right? And we [00:45:30] justify it. First of all, you're not allowed to question it, 'cause if you do, then you're... You know, it's disrespectful- Mm ... or it's, you know, insulting to the forefathers.

[00:45:36] I don't know what it is. But it's just the idea of like, hey, you should be able to ask the question. Yeah. [00:45:40] And you don't need to change for the sake of change, but just the idea... Like I say, there's a lot of things in the Bible, and I'm sure a lot more things I should be convicted of, where if you read it, it's black and white or pretty [00:45:50] ob- It's mentioned more than one time.

[00:45:51] Yeah. The music is a great example.

[00:45:53] JULIUS: I think, I think the whole, like- Holy Spirit giftings and stuff is like that too, where it's like [00:46:00] literally in the New Testament, in Acts like would be a place specifically, like every other page you have some sort of like someone getting healed or someone like doing something, speaking in [00:46:10] tongues.

[00:46:10] Right? And, and we can just read right through that. But then for myself personally, when I hear like somebody says, "Oh, I was at a church last week and some [00:46:20] lady just started rolling around on the ground, and then somehow there was a demon cast out of her," I'm like, "Lies."

[00:46:27] KYLE: Yeah. High, high suspicion. Yeah. Uh, I, I [00:46:30] think that, I mean, on, on the, on the spirit side, I think it's also a result of being in Western culture where we are so...

[00:46:38] Even inside the church, I think people are [00:46:40] so slow to go to God and pray first than they are to go to counselors and people and all the other different solutions. Yeah. Um, when you see in, [00:46:50] um, countries where there's a lot more persecution or where we don't have the access to, you know, fix things ourselves as much, that there's a [00:47:00] lot more, um, you can see a lot more evidence of the spirit working i- in, in ways that aren't as evident here.

[00:47:06] And so when you are never really exposed to it, maybe you're not even [00:47:10] explicitly told that, um, that these things are no longer like happening, but you just never hear examples of it. It's like fasting. Like we wouldn't be against fasting. We'd be [00:47:20] pro-fasting. Every- Growing up, everyone would be pro-fasting.

[00:47:22] You never heard examples or, of people fasting, and it was never promoted or anything else like that. It's super explicit. Um, and so when you [00:47:30] don't see a lot of, see a lot of one thing, um, and don't have a lot of evidence for it, um, but all these people around you still call themselves Christians, you then [00:47:40] read it in the Bible and you just keep reading, I guess.

[00:47:41] I don't know. Like

[00:47:44] JULIUS: Yeah, I mean, I think about even too, like we touched on already about how it's abused, like a [00:47:50] lot of the Holy Spirit stuff. I think it's even similar to how we're talking about the gay person, where it's like it's much easier to just like not invite-

[00:47:58] GARY: Yeah ...

[00:47:58] JULIUS: that, that, that gay- '

[00:47:59] GARY: [00:48:00] Cause we don't understand.

[00:48:01] JULIUS: Yeah ... couple, friend, just because that way you don't gotta think about it, you don't gotta talk to them, you don't gotta deal with it. Yeah. It's easier to just be like all these [00:48:10] Holy Spirit gifts, like, you know, healing, speaking in tongues, it's over. Because if you... I mean, I definitely would understand where like if you look at a lot of the churches, it's definitely been really [00:48:20] abused.

[00:48:20] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:48:20] JULIUS: So it's just so much easier to just kind of just throw it out. People... Yeah. I,

[00:48:23] KYLE: I love what you said there because people hate... Naturally people hate being dumb or looking dumb or not having the answers [00:48:30] or giving the impression they don't know everything. And so when you bring up topics that they might not know a lot about, you have a choice of saying, "I don't know" or [00:48:40] looking dumb, or just saying, "Nope, this is what I believe."

[00:48:43] Put- putting your stake in the ground, not necessarily being able to articulate why, and it's just a, you know, a, a [00:48:50] reaction or r- uh, reaction to not being able to, um, have some, I guess, humility that you don't know everything. Um, which is, I think it's [00:49:00] especially in the culture we grew up in, where it was so emphasized to know your theology and to know all the right answers about stuff, that, um, it's hard to have the position of [00:49:10] Uh, I don't know, or I wonder how I could be wrong here Or

[00:49:13] GARY: I can't, or I just can't even explain it.

[00:49:15] Yeah, can I explain it? So, so my, my kids ask me stuff and I'm just like, "I, I'm sorry guys, I should know this and I'll [00:49:20] get back to you on this" but that's the wrong question. Do you feel like

[00:49:21] JULIUS: you were taught, like in terms of all these giftings, that this was over?

[00:49:27] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:49:28] JULIUS: Okay, 'cause I feel like I just wasn't taught [00:49:30] about it.

[00:49:30] KYLE: Yeah, okay, so I would probably lean more that way too, but because dad was the pastor, I could explicitly ask him- Mm-hmm ... what, what the official teaching was on different things, and I think, [00:49:40] I don't even... I could be wrong here. I, I think at least how I grew up it was, um, taught that it was over.

[00:49:45] JULIUS: Okay, so I've had conversations with him, and I don't know, maybe this has, is gonna have to get cut from the podcast, but he [00:49:50] told me he's not...

[00:49:51] I, I forget the word, but he- A sensationalist ... he, he's not a sensationalist.

[00:49:55] KYLE: Okay.

[00:49:55] JULIUS: Like, he's not, he's not... He wouldn't have the-

[00:49:58] KYLE: Hardcore view on it ...

[00:49:59] JULIUS: or he wouldn't have the... He [00:50:00] couldn't say based off of just the Bible like, "Hey, this for sure doesn't happen." Oh,

[00:50:03] KYLE: yeah.

[00:50:03] JULIUS: He, he just explained it to me in the way where, well, if you look at the churches that it is happening, like all this weird [00:50:10] stuff- Yeah

[00:50:10] I mean, I I say weird, but, um-

[00:50:14] KYLE: I mean, any church you haven't been to-

[00:50:15] GARY: Here, I'm gonna read something pretty interesting here. I, I mean, I would encourage people to read [00:50:20] Acts, like I've been reading through Acts 15, 16, 17. Oh, I wanna know what you're just gonna say here. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Sorry, interrupting.

[00:50:25] JULIUS: Um, so, oh, like to what, uh- Yeah

[00:50:27] he said? Well, he just said, yeah, i- in... [00:50:30] where it's mostly done is in churches that even, you know, just prosperity gospel or the, the Pentecostals where there's definitely just, yeah, it's abused kind of thing.

[00:50:39] GARY: [00:50:40] Overemphasis on it, just like we overemphasize other parts of the Bible, they over- overemphasize this stuff.

[00:50:44] JULIUS: But they do say, like, and I, I don't know if, if he specifically said something like that, but in, in the Third [00:50:50] World countries, you kind of alluded to it earlier, like it's way more of a thing there, right?

[00:50:54] KYLE: Yeah, yeah. John MacArthur, I, I, uh, I was, um, seeing if, uh, John MacArthur was or [00:51:00] not, but yeah, he, because he has a book called Strange Fire, um, and he definitely taught that, against it, that he was pretty, um- Certain miraculous gifts, uh, [00:51:10] especially tongues, prophecy as direct revelation, and miraculous healing gifts were given primarily to authenticate the apostles and ceased after the apost- a- apostolic era.

[00:51:19] He did [00:51:20] not teach that God no longer performs miracles or answers prayer for healing. This is the... The opposite position is continun- continuinism. I don't even know how to [00:51:30] say that. I feel like some, uh, Ben Melgers is gonna correct me right now. Which holds that, that those gifts continue today. For John Piper, Wayne Grudem, and D.A.

[00:51:39] [00:51:40] Carson are commonly identified with that position. Yeah. I think it's probably, like, worth, uh, splitting a church over.

[00:51:46] JULIUS: I do find it interesting how- I [00:51:50] do find it interesting how some people seem to have really, really firm, hard stances on things that, like, there's nothing really in [00:52:00] scripture that specifically says, but somehow they find

[00:52:03] KYLE: their way to like- And then, and then they don't have any-

[00:52:05] JULIUS: This is their hill that they die on

[00:52:06] KYLE: Yeah, and they don't die on the gospel hill. Like, if [00:52:10] that's like your first hill you're dying on

[00:52:13] GARY: That's 'cause, Kyle, depending on where you read and what verses, you can emphasize anything. Um, this- What? Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. No, no. You don't think the [00:52:20] gospel is- Of c- course. But I'm saying you, you can cherry-pick anything from the Bible to defend whatever you want.

[00:52:25] KYLE: Yes, of course.

[00:52:26] GARY: So...

[00:52:26] JULIUS: But yeah, you can have everything bang on. If you don't have an understanding of the [00:52:30] gospel or if that's not-

[00:52:30] GARY: You're missing your whole point ...

[00:52:31] JULIUS: the essence, there's no point.

[00:52:32] GARY: Yeah.

[00:52:33] KYLE: Yeah. You have a, you have a religion. "

[00:52:34] GARY: As soon as it was night" ... This is in Acts 17:10, and there's... I would recommend people read, like, [00:52:40] 15, 16, 17, 18, 19.

[00:52:40] I mean, that's just where I'm reading right now, and I found it fa- very interesting. "As soon as it was night, the believers sent Paul and Silas away to Berea. On arriving there, and [00:52:50] they went to the Jewish synagogue. Now, the" ... Oh, my word.

[00:52:53] KYLE: I thought you were gonna read, "And they went

[00:52:57] GARY: to..." To the synagogue. Um, sorry, here in the Bereans.[00:53:00]

[00:53:00] KYLE: I can't... I need to actually do it. I did it, I did it, uh, I did it a while back with Malachi's kids book. I gotta actually be able to read something to, uh, mimic it. But I was [00:53:10] going the, doing the up and down thing with my voice, and he's like, "S- s- stop, stop reading from Opa's Bible." "

[00:53:16] GARY: Now, the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those [00:53:20] in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true."

[00:53:26] And this is where the term "be like the Bereans" comes from, right? It's used a lot at our [00:53:30] church, at least from the front. I've heard it many times, right? "Be Bereans," right? "As a result, many of them believed, as did also a p- number of prominent Greek women and many Greek men. [00:53:40] And when the Jews in Thess- Thessalonica learned that Paul was preaching the word of God at Berea, some of them went there too, agitating the crowds and stirring them up.

[00:53:48] The believers immediately [00:53:50] sent Paul to the coast, but Silas and Timothy stayed at Berea. Those who escorted Paul brought him to Athens and then left with instructions for Silas and Timothy to join them as soon as possible." Um, [00:54:00] and it... All these chapters talk over and over about the Jews getting worked up.

[00:54:05] They actually planted people in the crowd to, like- Mm ... create a mob. They, you know, and then [00:54:10] numerous times, Paul's like, "Okay, okay. Forget it. Like, I'm gonna go preach to the, the heathens, to the Gentiles." And, like, it's interesting how the religious structure of the day, and that's when Jesus [00:54:20] was on earth too, right?

[00:54:20] But even after, in the, in, in the early J- Testament church, they were very skeptical. They were always questioning things, and I think, yeah, there's just a lesson to be learned from that. And I see that, 'cause I mean, well, [00:54:30] not my wife per se, 'cause she grew up in the Anglican Church. But similar, like, not in the same religious structure that I did or- I don't wanna say the...

[00:54:39] I don't know what the right [00:54:40] term is, but definitely not the indoctrination of- Yeah ... of certain ideas, right? Yeah. Like much more, "Hey, this is just..." You know, they're getting lots of doing things just 'cause they do them, but not the same, um, [00:54:50] level of weight behind it. People that just come off the street and have never heard the Bible and then are introduced to the word of God, like it's, and they get saved, it's pretty po- it's pretty amazing.

[00:54:59] Yeah. And they are, they are a [00:55:00] lot more free than I am. Yes. Like, it, it's a beautiful thing, right? Yes. And so I think often we forget that, hey, that's what's happening here. If you read through the New Testament and you see the, you know, the Philippian jailer, [00:55:10] whoever, maybe that's a bad example, but there'd be people like that where it's just like, hey, they're just going about their day and God grabbed them and saved them.

[00:55:15] Yeah. And they're not, they're not stuck with all the things that you think-

[00:55:18] KYLE: No ...

[00:55:18] GARY: whoever you are, think that it [00:55:20] takes to be a Christian. And we're all like that. We just, we have this framework of what it means in our culture, in our day and age, in our mind-

[00:55:26] KYLE: Yeah ...

[00:55:27] GARY: and we're all wrong, all of us, so.

[00:55:28] KYLE: That's why I think it's so important [00:55:30] to read the Bible- Yeah

[00:55:30] over and over.

[00:55:31] GARY: Yeah. Be a Berean.

[00:55:32] KYLE: Oh, it'll, it'll start shaping you to what it, what it actually says.

[00:55:36] GARY: Yeah. 'Cause a lot of

[00:55:37] KYLE: times we have ideas. Hey, do, do you guys think, uh, the [00:55:40] world's gonna end soon? Or, or do you- Very soon ... do you guys think mu- do you think much about the end, end of the world, and do you just come back?

[00:55:45] GARY: I do all the time. Really?

[00:55:47] KYLE: Yeah. Like, when's the last time?

[00:55:48] GARY: Too much. [00:55:50] Uh, like-

[00:55:50] KYLE: Just 'cause you're an extremist and you like thinking about those kind of things, or like

[00:55:53] GARY: what? No, I just think, like I buried a lot of young people. I have friends that have lost kids. I... Life's [00:56:00] hard. I don't know if all the children in my home are gonna stay in my home.

[00:56:02] Life's messy. I just spend-

[00:56:04] KYLE: What does that have to do with the world ending? '

[00:56:07] GARY: Cause life is hard, and I just feel like, man, eternity's, [00:56:10] like, heaven is a beautiful thing. Like, to think of, like, to think of... It's impossible to even imagine- Like, you

[00:56:14] KYLE: actually think Jesus gonna come back on the clouds soon, like that kind of thinking?

[00:56:17] Or more just like- I don't know ... the short- the shortness of life?

[00:56:19] GARY: I just [00:56:20] think, yeah, both and. Both and. I don't, I don't start... I'm not gonna word, like... I don't think, I don't necessarily think Jesus- I-

[00:56:25] KYLE: I was just curious.

[00:56:26] GARY: I mean- No, I don't think- ... define-

[00:56:26] KYLE: defining

[00:56:27] GARY: it ... I have no idea when the end of the world is, right?

[00:56:29] But I'm just saying- [00:56:30]

[00:56:30] KYLE: I know

[00:56:30] GARY: that, yeah ... the idea... Obviously. But the... No, but people do pick, if that's where you're going. Yeah, yeah, that's true, yeah. It's more just the idea of, hey, I think that it's really good. I always... We've talked about [00:56:40] this before, but I feel like it's a two-handed thing, and you should live in the tension of you should be ready for the world to be end at the end of the day today or right now.

[00:56:47] Yeah. And you should be prepared to live for another 50 or 100 [00:56:50] years. Hmm. And how do you live in that tension? And most people will err way too far to one side or the other.

[00:56:55] JULIUS: Yeah, you- Pr-

[00:56:56] KYLE: probably the side of

[00:56:57] GARY: living, right? Well, what side? What side? Not being, not being- Never-ending? Yeah. [00:57:00] Never-ending.

[00:57:00] Never-ending.

[00:57:00] JULIUS: Never-ending. You asked, you asked Gary what his Bible reading has been recently, and so I'll answer the question myself. It's been in Mark. And I find it really [00:57:10] interesting how in this little stretch, like, Jesus just says in multiple different ways, like, "Be ready."

[00:57:17] KYLE: Mm.

[00:57:17] JULIUS: And he even says also, it's not even just the unbelievers, [00:57:20] like, oh, like, "Be safe."

[00:57:22] No, it's also to the believers of, like, "Be ready," in terms of- Be

[00:57:25] KYLE: sober-minded, yeah, yeah ...

[00:57:27] JULIUS: well, or even just live, live as [00:57:30] if, like, I'm coming back soon.

[00:57:32] KYLE: Mm.

[00:57:32] JULIUS: Right? And, and it's been convicting to me where it's, yeah, you're just, you're- you're building your whole life down here, and it's just so easy to get [00:57:40] upset about things.

[00:57:41] But that's, yeah, he, he tells us that, you know, live, live, live today, and- Yeah ... and I'm

[00:57:48] GARY: coming back soon. Isn't it weird, though, [00:57:50] that there's still nothing wrong with building a life down here either? But what is that supposed to look like? Do you think about it?

[00:57:55] KYLE: Well, just in, just in, just in order. In order of n- of, [00:58:00] of importance.

[00:58:00] GARY: Yeah.

[00:58:01] KYLE: Right? Like, like, it's- Yeah ... it's good to, to... God told us to conquer the... What does he tell Adam and Eve to do? To, to subdue the world and, and, uh, whatever.

[00:58:09] GARY: [00:58:10] Divide and conquering, that's what I'm doing,

[00:58:11] JULIUS: so. Kyle, so do you, do you hope, do you hope he comes back soon?

[00:58:14] KYLE: Yes.

[00:58:16] JULIUS: Why? '

[00:58:17] KYLE: Cause there's so much pain and suffering and hurt [00:58:20] and, and it needs to be redeemed and saved.

[00:58:21] Like, that's... Yeah. It reminds me of... You guys know who Francis Chan is?

[00:58:27] JULIUS: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

[00:58:27] KYLE: Uh, maybe we can end, end with this, this little [00:58:30] video today, but he did a, a, an illustration and a sermon, uh, a while back. Oh, yeah. And it is just awesome, and I've been wanting to play it on the podcast for a long time, so I think, figured we could watch it.

[00:58:39] Into that? [00:58:40] Sure.[00:58:50]

[00:58:51] JULIUS: Way to, to explain it. Um, I,

[00:58:58] I You see this red part? This would [00:59:00] represent your time on Earth[00:59:10] [00:59:20] [00:59:30] [00:59:40] [00:59:50] [01:00:00] [01:00:10]

[01:00:12] You've got a few short years here on Earth, and then you've got all of eternity somewhere [01:00:20] else. This is, this is your existence. And what blows me away is some of you, all you think about is this red part. It's all you think [01:00:30] about. You're consumed with this. You go, "Oh man, I can't wait till here. You know, I'm gonna work hard.

[01:00:35] I'm gonna save, save, save so I can really enjoy this part right here." [01:00:40] You're consumed with that, and you're thinking, "Oh, man, am I gonna get to travel? Am I gonna eat well? Am I gonna do this during this part?" And I'm like, are you kidding me? [01:00:50] What about this? What about this? What about th- what about all this stuff?

[01:00:55] It's just, it's crazy to me 'cause, 'cause the Bible teaches that what I do during this little [01:01:00] red part determines how I'm gonna exist for millions and millions and millions of years forever. And, and so why would I spend this [01:01:10] little red part trying to make myself as comfortable as possible, enjoying myself as much as I can?

[01:01:18] Paul says, "Look, I wanna live my life [01:01:20] for this mission. I'm gonna spend my life, invest my life for this moment when I cross that finish line." See, I'm gonna forget about all this stuff I could enjoy, and I'm not [01:01:30] gonna look around. I'm gonna be like a runner just looking at that moment when I face God.

[01:01:34] Because when I face Him, then I don't get this chance over again. We get one chance at this life on [01:01:40] Earth, and it can end at any second for any of us. We got one chance at this, and then comes eternity. And I, and I'm not gonna be fooled. I'm not gonna spend my life down here. See, people [01:01:50] look at some of my decisions and go, "Oh, you're so stupid because that's gonna really affect this."

[01:01:54] I go, "No, you're stupid 'cause that's gonna affect all of this." Man, I, I, I'm [01:02:00] serious. I, I love

[01:02:05] I look at the way people live and I go, "Wow, that is so crazy. You are so [01:02:10] crazy." You're gonna s- you're gonna do that right now just to enjoy right now, not even knowing if you have tomorrow, and you think that's [01:02:20] smart and that I'm dumb? It doesn't make any sense. Paul goes, "I'm not gonna look around at all this stuff."

[01:02:26] And it's tempting. It's tempting to all of us. That's what I'm saying. Down here, it's [01:02:30] crazy 'cause everyone lives that way. Everyone lives for the red part. No one's thinking about the millions of years afterwards. It's, it's just a crazy deception [01:02:40] that we can't get out of our minds. And Paul goes, "I'm not doing that."

[01:02:43] He goes, "I keep my eyes on that. I keep my eyes on that finish line, and I'm gonna forget what's behind me. I'm not looking around. I'm just [01:02:50] gonna... I'm straining because I'm straining forward. I'm, like, stretching forward for that mark. I'm gonna pass this thing. I'm gonna live this out, and I'm gonna face him.

[01:02:59] I'm gonna [01:03:00] come before the judges, and he's gonna hand me that trophy." He goes, "I'm gonna get it, and I haven't gotten there yet." He goes, "But I-- you, you better believe I'm using every muscle, exerting every bit about me [01:03:10] because I'm gonna pass that line well." So then what am I-

[01:03:15] GARY: Interesting. Yeah, I've watched that before.

[01:03:19] So the answer [01:03:20] to that is? To what? Well, to the eternity question. From Romans Can I read this part a [01:03:30] minute?

[01:03:30] KYLE: Yeah. Romans what?

[01:03:31] GARY: Romans 10

[01:03:39] Oh, what verse am [01:03:40] I at here? Nine. If you declare with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your [01:03:50] faith and are saved. And as Scripture says, "Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame."[01:04:00]

[01:04:00] There's no difference between Jew and Gentile. The same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him. For everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved. It's one of my [01:04:10] favorite verses, Romans

[01:04:12] KYLE: 10:13. And how, and what, how did you relate the two together? '

[01:04:16] GARY: Cause it's just eternity that matters, and a lot of people, I [01:04:20] think, don't even realize that they should be saved or can be saved or-

[01:04:23] KYLE: Mm.

[01:04:23] GARY: Yeah, I think there's just a lot of-

[01:04:25] KYLE: I think also for, just for Christians, like, just an encouragement to, like, go [01:04:30] all in on what matters. It's, it, it is so easy in, in a rich culture just to... You know? And there's so much need out there. There's so much need. There's so much suffering. There's [01:04:40] so many people that need the love of Jesus and need, like, help and stuff like that.

[01:04:43] And if we just spent a little bit more time not focused on our own problems, but, you know, our own gains or whatever and, [01:04:50] and, and just laying down our life for what really matters, it's not dumb.

[01:04:56] JULIUS: I must have been, uh, eight or nine, [01:05:00] and, uh, you were at my house for some reason. Um, and you're like... I think it was me and my brother were there.

[01:05:06] Like, "Hey, go get me, like, a really... Do you have a really long rope? [01:05:10] Like, go get me a really long..." I thought we were gonna play some sort of, like, game or, like, do something. Hangman snooze. You thought you were getting tied up and beat. I, I didn't know what, but I thought it was gonna be something fun. [01:05:20] So I bring you this rope, and you sit down, and we're sitting down, right?

[01:05:24] So you just did, did this whole big long spiel on us, right?

[01:05:27] KYLE: Okay.

[01:05:27] JULIUS: And, uh, you're like, "Yeah, this is your life. This is eternity," [01:05:30] right? And you gave us this whole big spiel.

[01:05:31] KYLE: Do not remember this.

[01:05:32] JULIUS: And I, um, I remember just after that just being so, like- Like, I just thought, [01:05:40] like I was just thinking about how I'm just gonna burn in hell for so many years, right?

[01:05:42] KYLE: Oh, I did a bad job.

[01:05:44] JULIUS: And I just- No,

[01:05:46] KYLE: you didn't. No, you didn't.

[01:05:47] JULIUS: I mean, it was- No, you didn't ... it was definitely a warning, but I remember going to bed [01:05:50] and just being like, like, "I need to be saved, I know that." And, and at the time I d- I didn't realize I could be saved or, or how to be saved, but

[01:05:59] GARY: That's why I [01:06:00] read the verse I just read.

[01:06:00] JULIUS: But yeah. And, and that's- That's- ... yeah, that's why that was good. Um, but yeah, it's just really interesting that I remember that from-

[01:06:08] KYLE: Yeah ...

[01:06:09] JULIUS: 15 years ago. [01:06:10]

[01:06:10] KYLE: So now it makes sense why, uh, Gary shared that. And I guess just, uh, to, to, uh, a- add to that, um, and, and I've shared it here before, but I think it's important.

[01:06:19] [01:06:20] I used to think going to church I wanted to be saved, but God didn't wanna save me yet. But it was the opposite. God wants me, but I didn't want him. I didn't wanna be [01:06:30] saved. I was resisting it. I wanted my own way. And so for anybody thinking that, "Hey, I, like I'm scared. I don't wanna..." You know, like, no, like he wants you.

[01:06:38] Like- And I think- And maybe you're not willing- [01:06:40] No ... but ask, confess that. Confess that. Confess that you're willing.

[01:06:42] JULIUS: Well, and also there's a, there is a difference between, like I've thought about this recently, between not wanting to go to hell [01:06:50] and wanting to be saved. Oh, yeah, huge difference. A- and so I think that, yeah, or that like you can just get caught in between that where it's like, "Well, I don't wanna go to hell."

[01:06:57] Like, and you'd also think that means you wanna [01:07:00] be saved. Right. But yeah, I don't know, I guess being saved is just-

[01:07:03] GARY: I don't think so. When I get honest with people, and I often do, it always comes back to the same thing, right? I mean, some [01:07:10] people are literally so deeply indoctrinated with bad theology that they don't even understand exactly what you said, that, you know, God would...

[01:07:18] It says in the Bible that God does not [01:07:20] want anyone to perish. So most of us don't, haven't spent enough time thinking about that, but mo- most people, if they get honest, if they're not in that camp of the confused camp, they're in the other side where I was for many [01:07:30] years, where I just didn't wanna give up the, the fun life that I thought I was living the fun life.

[01:07:33] I thought everything in the red that I was doing was a good time, and I didn't realize, I didn't care about eternity. I just thought, "Hey, I'm gonna live how I want [01:07:40] now, and I'll be, I'll be the God of my life," right? Yeah. And I think that's a lot of... It's really hard. And even Christians, and I think that's who he's really preaching to there, right?

[01:07:47] 'Cause he'd be preaching to a church in that setting. [01:07:50] I mean, like a lot of people there are probably believers, but we still do that. We're still, that's what you're, that's what you're going. You know, you're coming after those of us like myself that very easily would just build empires and [01:08:00] do all the things here that seem like the fun right thing to do that are still very self-focused and very much focused on the Earth, right?

[01:08:06] Yeah,

[01:08:07] KYLE: yeah.

[01:08:07] GARY: And it's, it's a, it's a wrestle for sure. [01:08:10] I think we need to end on that, guys. Or I gotta go. You guys can carry on like last time and, uh

[01:08:15] KYLE: Thank you guys for listening, I appreciate it. Um, send in your questions, [01:08:20] uh, please do. Uh, on the, on the website or, uh, just directly to me or Gary. We'll answer them on the podcast.

[01:08:25] Um, and, uh, also guest suggestions for the Furious and Curious Show. If you have guest suggestions, send those over, [01:08:30] or if you're looking for a job or a coach or a realtor- ... or a mechanic. Thank you guys. Peace. Get in here.[01:08:40]

[01:08:44] JULIUS: Oh, picture. Oh. I didn't know what these, [01:08:50] these two men were crowding on either side for. Oh, man.

[01:08:52] GARY: We thought we were getting the rope back out.

[01:08:59] JULIUS: That's funny. I [01:09:00] did that to you when you were like nine. It makes sense that Kyle

[01:09:02] GARY: would've done that when he was 20.

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