Should Teenagers Skip High School and Start Working Instead? - Briefcase & The Barn EP 104

July 15, 2026

[00:00:00] KYLE: Most of my podcasts only

[00:00:01] ROCKY: You watch them?

[00:00:02] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:00:02] ROCKY: Why?

[00:00:03] KYLE: Well, I don't ever really in a spot where I listen to stuff, like where I'm driving or... If [00:00:10] I'm sitting at my desk, I can-

[00:00:10] ROCKY: How would you watch... How is watching easier than listening?

[00:00:14] KYLE: Uh, 'cause I can concentrate.

[00:00:16] ROCKY: Oh. I

[00:00:17] KYLE: do that night with Nicole. We just listen to...[00:00:20]

[00:00:20] watch listen You really didn't know it was video? That's so funny.

[00:00:26] ROCKY: How do I look? You

[00:00:27] KYLE: look like Rocky. [00:00:30]

[00:00:30] ROCKY: That is true. How many pull-ups are you at?

[00:00:34] KYLE: Uh, like four or something.

[00:00:36] ROCKY: Four a day?

[00:00:37] KYLE: I can four in a pull-up bar.

[00:00:38] ROCKY: Four in a row? [00:00:40]

[00:00:40] KYLE: I just got started going to the gym about a month ago. Uh, almost two months ago, actually.

[00:00:46] It's made such a massive difference [00:00:50] For my back and just being able to play with the boys

[00:00:55] I'm the spotlight Did

[00:00:56] ROCKY: you talk, did you talk to Nick?

[00:00:58] KYLE: No. [00:01:00] Talk to her. No, I did not.

[00:01:07] So you basically have to be like, [00:01:10] like, um, a, a fist length away from the mics. Um, and that back chair leans back really quickly, so just[00:01:20] [00:01:30] [00:01:40] [00:01:50]

[00:01:59] ROCKY: Yeah, Ben came [00:02:00] with me yesterday too, so.

[00:02:02] KYLE: Okay.

[00:02:02] ROCKY: He was there today. It was nice. A good help.

[00:02:06] KYLE: What does he do?

[00:02:08] ROCKY: Oh, he does a lot of stuff to- he's been [00:02:10] doing some of his own stuff lately, like the scroll saw art- Okay ... and that kind of stuff. But he turns a lot there, like that's where he turns all his bowls.

[00:02:17] KYLE: Okay.

[00:02:18] ROCKY: And for me, he does a lot of [00:02:20] like stacking and stickering, babysitting wood.

[00:02:24] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:02:25] ROCKY: Yeah. Okay. He, he's learning how to grade, so he does some of our grading and [00:02:30] planing, runs a couple of the

[00:02:32] KYLE: planers-

[00:02:34] ROCKY: Yeah ... seen him

[00:02:34] KYLE: run a bandsaw. Okay. Any questions before we get started? You'll have to be a little bit closer [00:02:40] still.

[00:02:40] ROCKY: Closer than this?

[00:02:41] KYLE: Yeah. Like, like, like pretend you're, like, talking in, like your mouth's pointing into the mic. Um, okay. I'll, uh, me and Gary always pray first, so I'll pray and [00:02:50] then get into it. Lord Jesus, thank you for today. Thank you that, uh, Rocky and I are here, get to record. Um, ask that you'd be with us as we have a chat.

[00:02:59] Uh, help us just to be [00:03:00] ourselves, not to worry about anybody that listens down the road and just, um, just be real and, uh, somewhat en- entertaining. Uh, keep us from [00:03:10] sin and, uh, bless Gary, uh, wherever he is today. Um, and, uh, help him enjoy his time with his family. In Jesus' name. Amen. [00:03:20] Welcome back to episode 104 of The Briefcase in the Barn.

[00:03:24] Uh, Gary is not here today. We got Rocky Funk joining us. [00:03:30] Thanks to you for being willing. Yeah, no problem. You weren't expecting not Gary being here though, or what? Not really, no. And he wasn't, didn't know it was videoed.[00:03:40]

[00:03:42] Uh, so I know Rocky from, uh, I did Freedom Session with you, what, two years ago now?

[00:03:46] ROCKY: Yeah.

[00:03:47] KYLE: That was a fun experience.

[00:03:48] ROCKY: It was, yep. You're [00:03:50] a different person here than you were at Freedom Session.

[00:03:53] KYLE: Why? What was it like at Freedom Session?

[00:03:56] ROCKY: Uh, you were a lot more moody and irritable. [00:04:00] You're friendlier in person out here.

[00:04:05] KYLE: Uh, yeah, that was a, that was a tough year. Yeah. Okay, so, um, [00:04:10] before we get into, you sent me three topics to talk about-

[00:04:12] ROCKY: Yep ...

[00:04:12] KYLE: which were, uh, alcohol in Christian circles, um, is high school necessary or even important, and the third topic was the [00:04:20] practical role of a man in the home, including how soft or firm a man should be towards his children.

[00:04:26] So I wanna get into that, but first, what do you do? Talk maybe just, [00:04:30] um, yeah.

[00:04:31] ROCKY: Yeah, that's originally why I guess I had asked you if I could do an ad or something on your show and you said, "Oh, you should just come on," so. [00:04:40] Mm. Um, it was, I bought a business about a year ago, uh, called Bow River Tone and Craft, so it's in north end of Chilliwack there, and we sell, uh, [00:04:50] specialty hardwoods to the music industry and also, like, craft material for, mostly for woodturners, but also we have slabs [00:05:00] and charcuterie board blanks and all that kind of stuff.

[00:05:03] Any, any different type of craft, so.

[00:05:06] KYLE: Okay.

[00:05:07] ROCKY: Yeah.

[00:05:07] KYLE: So who, would you, how would you describe your ideal [00:05:10] customer?

[00:05:12] ROCKY: Uh, we have existing customers that are, like, big guitar builders. Uh, we export a lot of our wood. Most of it goes to the States, probably, like, [00:05:20] 80, 90%.

[00:05:20] KYLE: Right.

[00:05:21] ROCKY: But we do wanna expand kind of like the local presence, like get more of the retail side going so-

[00:05:28] KYLE: So basically anybody that needs [00:05:30] specialty woods- Yeah

[00:05:31] for whatever projects they're doing.

[00:05:32] ROCKY: People just learning how to get into it, experts that are looking for interesting wood. We sell a lot of [00:05:40] interesting wood, so we don't have a ton of, like, exotic wood, although we do have some of that, but lots

[00:05:44] KYLE: of- What's the difference in interesting wood and exotic wood?

[00:05:47] ROCKY: Uh, it can be the same thing, but exotic- Oh, okay ... is, like, [00:05:50] outside of Canada.

[00:05:50] KYLE: Okay.

[00:05:51] ROCKY: You know, imported from Africa or Papua New Guinea or whatever.

[00:05:54] KYLE: Okay. How often do you get wood from out of Canada and-

[00:05:57] ROCKY: Not very often. Okay. No, that's, that's [00:06:00] what I'm saying. It's more, like, local stuff. Oh, okay. Yeah, less exotics.

[00:06:03] We do have some exotic woods that, um, people would be after.

[00:06:07] KYLE: From South America, right?

[00:06:08] ROCKY: Some of them are.

[00:06:09] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:06:09] ROCKY: [00:06:10] Yep. Yeah, all over the world they've been imported. So when I bought the business, there was already an inventory there, and it included a bunch of that kind of stuff.

[00:06:17] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:06:19] ROCKY: [00:06:20] Um, but yeah, mostly what we focus on locally is, like, um, what would be called curly maple for instrument purposes.

[00:06:29] We [00:06:30] also do some softwood stuff like spruce and cedar for guitar tops, but-

[00:06:35] KYLE: Right ...

[00:06:35] ROCKY: yeah.

[00:06:35] KYLE: And people just buy online and you just ship it to their house, or they have to call [00:06:40] and talk to you?

[00:06:40] ROCKY: We're not totally set up for that really well. We do ship to people's houses, but yeah. Yeah. They came in... It's, it's a, it's, it's a business that's [00:06:50] been in Chilliwack for, like, 45 years, but people don't really know that it exists, so I'm curious to see what the response would be if people just came there and saw what- '

[00:06:59] KYLE: Cause it has a retail [00:07:00] front and everything, right?

[00:07:00] People can just drop

[00:07:01] ROCKY: in? Yeah, it does. Yeah.

[00:07:01] KYLE: Okay. Yeah. All right.

[00:07:04] ROCKY: Yep. Um, yeah, we'd have a lot of wood that would be... We would have a lot of, [00:07:10] uh, local woods that would be very difficult to find anywhere else.

[00:07:13] KYLE: Okay.

[00:07:14] ROCKY: Yeah.

[00:07:14] KYLE: I almost wouldn't believe it. Um . Uh, [00:07:20] how, how did you get into that? Like, the, it seems like pretty unique business to buy.

[00:07:25] ROCKY: Yeah, I was selling wood to these, to the previous owners, so I used to [00:07:30] do, um, a lot of tree service work, and then, um, I'm a faller by trade, tree faller, so I was logging, and I would find different types of logs that would [00:07:40] interest them, and then I would sell the wood to them So

[00:07:43] KYLE: like a big maple or whatever that, something that's worth money?

[00:07:45] ROCKY: Yeah, a specific type of maple, yep. Yep. So I would find those every [00:07:50] once in a while, and then, um, yeah, I, I would sell to them, and that developed into like a friendship that we-

[00:07:56] KYLE: Hmm ...

[00:07:56] ROCKY: had, and then when it came time for the owner [00:08:00] to decide he wanted to sell, he kinda out of the blue just asked us if we'd be interested, so.

[00:08:04] KYLE: Hmm.

[00:08:04] ROCKY: Is that cool? Kind of six months to think about that, pray about that, and-

[00:08:07] KYLE: No regrets?

[00:08:08] ROCKY: No regrets. Okay. [00:08:10] It's been good. It's awesome for my family and Yeah, it's been, it fits our values really well.

[00:08:16] KYLE: Right.

[00:08:16] ROCKY: Not just the business side of it, but-

[00:08:18] KYLE: Yeah. Values of just [00:08:20] having the family around and stuff?

[00:08:21] ROCKY: Yep.

[00:08:21] Yeah, controlling my own schedule is nice, if I can do that. And, and then also- You like

[00:08:26] KYLE: control?

[00:08:27] ROCKY: Yeah. Big control guy. Yeah.[00:08:30]

[00:08:32] And, uh, it's nice if my, my family can be involved. So yesterday everybody was there, my wife and kids were all there, and-

[00:08:38] KYLE: That's

[00:08:38] ROCKY: awesome ... just helping out and doing [00:08:40] whatever. It's kinda like, I would like it to, uh, appear, but not only appear, but be a business that's like a family [00:08:50] business. Right. Like, people would come there and they would know it's like-

[00:08:52] KYLE: It's the

[00:08:52] ROCKY: family

[00:08:53] kind of a bit of a throwback to the, to that era where those things were normal.

[00:08:57] KYLE: Yeah, yep. And you, [00:09:00] um, I remember you telling me one time, uh, this is a little bit of, of aside, but um, that in the tree industry, there's actually poaching that happens, where people are, like, basically thieves come in and know of a tree on someone's [00:09:10] property, and they just come at night and-

[00:09:12] ROCKY: Yep, that happens.

[00:09:13] KYLE: Okay.

[00:09:14] ROCKY: Still happens.

[00:09:15] KYLE: Huh.

[00:09:15] ROCKY: Yep.

[00:09:16] KYLE: Is that o- quite often, or?

[00:09:17] ROCKY: I don't know. It's hard to track it- Okay ... [00:09:20] totally.

[00:09:20] KYLE: Of course,

[00:09:20] ROCKY: yeah. But sometimes the way people are acting, you would make it f- it would make it seem like maybe they didn't come by it honestly, but I mean, you would never accuse anybody [00:09:30] and, and as long as they have- No, 'cause like

[00:09:30] KYLE: someone come, 'cause people come to you with a big

[00:09:32] ROCKY: piece of wood and- Yeah, they can, yeah.

[00:09:33] As long as they have the proper documentation. It's called, like, a timber mark, which shows where the wood [00:09:40] has come from. Okay. So if it's all above board, then, you know, there's no way for me personally to know, but-

[00:09:45] KYLE: So if they come with a big nice piece of wood and there's no timber mark, then you won't buy it?

[00:09:49] ROCKY: [00:09:50] Yeah, I would get... Yeah, because y- we get, the government would come, like, they come and scale logs at our property. Any wood that we bring in gets scaled, so then-

[00:09:58] KYLE: How often do they come? [00:10:00]

[00:10:00] ROCKY: Whenever we ask them to or some- Oh ... or they can do a, a visit if they want to. Okay. But yeah, we let them know when wood has come in, and then they come and scale

[00:10:08] KYLE: it.

[00:10:08] Scale, what does that mean, scale

[00:10:09] ROCKY: it? Scale [00:10:10] it means like-

[00:10:10] KYLE: Weigh

[00:10:11] ROCKY: it? Uh, no, determine its volume and species and quality, and then it gets applied to that timber mark so that they know that logging is happening [00:10:20] under that, under that specific timber mark.

[00:10:22] KYLE: Okay.

[00:10:22] ROCKY: A timber mark appli- uh, applies to, like, a specific property.

[00:10:25] KYLE: Okay. And so if you have a big tree on your yard- Yeah ... like let's say I would have in my [00:10:30] yard and I cut it down and bring it to you, you couldn't take it? I would have to find a local timber mark person to mark it?

[00:10:35] ROCKY: No, you can apply for it. It's free.

[00:10:37] KYLE: Oh, okay.

[00:10:37] ROCKY: It's free, yeah. But it- Oh,

[00:10:39] KYLE: okay, so it's really easy to [00:10:40] get around too, then.

[00:10:41] ROCKY: It's really easy to get around, and it's also really tricky if you followed it exactly by the letter of the law because, like, you're not supposed to move any wood or any [00:10:50] logs. So like, any firewood logs or anything should all fall under a timber mark, but- Okay ... of course, that makes it quite impractical, so.

[00:10:58] They- [00:11:00] Yeah. If you were gonna follow the exact letter of the law, you would be applying for a timber mark for every piece of wood- Right ... that came from any different property.

[00:11:08] KYLE: Yeah. So you grew up in, I think, northern [00:11:10] Alberta?

[00:11:10] ROCKY: Yeah.

[00:11:10] KYLE: On a, on a big ranch in the middle of nowhere. How did you end up falling?

[00:11:15] ROCKY: Uh, we moved down here to BC to be a part of a farm that, [00:11:20] uh, my sister married into a farm down here.

[00:11:22] Okay. We were gonna come work there and then, uh, just didn't end up working out, so I didn't really know what to do. [00:11:30] We had some kids and I decided to, um... There was just a guy that was a tree service guy, and he was looking for a guy just to, like, drag branches and do all [00:11:40] the kinda menial tasks. Yeah. I was probably well into my 20s, late 20s, working for 18 bucks an hour pulling branches.

[00:11:49] And, [00:11:50] um, then I saw him climbing, and my wife and I were, were, um, I still do sometimes, but rock climb. Yeah. So I was quite curious that this guy was climbing trees. I [00:12:00] had never even heard of that. Oh, okay. So I was enthralled by that, and I wanted to climb, and I was pretty shaky for quite a while, but eventually that led into me going out on my [00:12:10] own audaciously, like, did not have any business sense or not good enough climber to go out on my own, but I did it anyway, so I did that for a couple years.[00:12:20]

[00:12:20] And then that led into kind of pursuing a falling certification, and I did that.

[00:12:25] KYLE: Oh, that's actually something, like, the government gives you training, training

[00:12:28] ROCKY: on? It's heavily mandate- [00:12:30] yeah, regulated.

[00:12:31] KYLE: Okay. Like, what's the training? Like a course you have to do?

[00:12:33] ROCKY: Uh, it's sort of like an apprenticeship.

[00:12:35] KYLE: All

[00:12:35] ROCKY: right.

[00:12:35] But it's the most, it's statistically it's the most dangerous job in Canada. Yeah. So it's, [00:12:40] it's quite regulated.

[00:12:40] KYLE: Okay.

[00:12:41] ROCKY: Yeah. They, they have their hand on it kind of all the way to make sure that proper training's being done.

[00:12:45] KYLE: Right. And when you're climbing trees, is that, like, a big strap around the tree and you're whipping that up [00:12:50] with spikes on your feet?

[00:12:50] ROCKY: Yeah.

[00:12:51] KYLE: Yeah. Like, how, how, how high do you go? Like, would, would you be above, like, 150 feet ever or 200?

[00:12:57] ROCKY: We don't have a lot of trees over 200 feet, but I've [00:13:00] climbed for fun up to 190 feet on a fir tree. But, but-

[00:13:04] KYLE: What's that like

[00:13:05] ROCKY: up there? Not, not for work.

[00:13:07] KYLE: All right.

[00:13:07] ROCKY: But, yeah.

[00:13:08] KYLE: Is that swaying still pretty good at- Yeah.

[00:13:09] It's [00:13:10] gotta be.

[00:13:10] ROCKY: Yeah. Me and a buddy did it. Yeah, it was fun. I- you don't use- Right ... your spurs really for that, for recreational climbing. You shoot a line up into the tree- [00:13:20] Okay ... with, like, a big slingshot, and it shoots a t- a small line with a weight on it, and then you p- use that line to pull a bigger line into the tree, and then you-

[00:13:27] KYLE: Oh, okay

[00:13:28] ascend the line. So you're gonna rappel up. Oh, okay, yeah. [00:13:30] 'Cause then you don't have to bring that strap up around all the branches

[00:13:32] ROCKY: and whatever. Yeah, I did bring some gear like that, too, but yeah.

[00:13:34] KYLE: Okay.

[00:13:35] ROCKY: Yeah. Huh, interesting. So we climb trees, uh, for fun every once in a while, too.

[00:13:39] KYLE: Yeah. [00:13:40] So if people wanna get a hold of Bow River or interesting in wood, what's the best way to do that?

[00:13:44] Do you have a web- Oh, um ...

[00:13:46] ROCKY: phone number, a website? Yeah, a website, yeah. Which is? Bow River Tonnenkraft.ca.

[00:13:49] KYLE: All

[00:13:49] ROCKY: [00:13:50] right. Tonnenkraft.ca.

[00:13:50] KYLE: Yeah. Yeah. And then there's- I'll try to remember- You can find

[00:13:55] ROCKY: us. It's on Ballum Road in Chilliwack there. Okay. North end of town.

[00:13:58] KYLE: Yeah, by the river.

[00:13:59] ROCKY: Yep.

[00:13:59] KYLE: It's right here. [00:14:00] Cool. Okay, you got some topics?

[00:14:03] Uh, any order? Nope. All right. Alcohol- It's all just food for thought. Alcohol in Christian [00:14:10] circles. Talk to me. What do you think? What do I think about what? Like-

[00:14:16] ROCKY: Oh, you want me to talk about it?

[00:14:17] KYLE: Well, yeah, these are your topics, so- I

[00:14:19] ROCKY: have no idea. I [00:14:20] got lots of thoughts about it.

[00:14:20] KYLE: You gonna ask me questions?

[00:14:21] ROCKY: Yeah, I have quite a few thoughts about it. But I'm curious about... I'm curious why alcohol's viewed like it is [00:14:30] versus, um, like maybe a, a good comparison would be smoking. Why it would be okay sort of for Christians to drink but not smoke. [00:14:40] Hmm. Especially like just I'm, I'm talking just from a perspective, like people just see it, your perception of what it's like, you know?

[00:14:48] Yeah,

[00:14:48] KYLE: yeah. If you see a guy having a beer or- [00:14:50] Yeah ... or, uh, sucking back on a fag.

[00:14:53] ROCKY: You know. I don't know. I don't know all the lingo, but-

[00:14:56] KYLE: That's a cigarette, right?

[00:14:56] ROCKY: Yeah. Yeah. I

[00:14:57] KYLE: don't know.

[00:14:58] ROCKY: Yeah. But it, it would be different, [00:15:00] you know. If we went to a barbecue and we had a casual beer and, and a hot dog or whatever, that's fine.

[00:15:04] Yeah. But if a bunch of guys were smoking, people would look at it differently.

[00:15:07] KYLE: So would you, uh, say that, uh, one drink of [00:15:10] beer and one cigarette is, they're equal?

[00:15:12] ROCKY: Oh, I don't know about that. But my point, I guess the, the interesting point to me and why I stopped drinking alcohol, [00:15:20] or at least any- with any consistency, is just that alcohol is involved in so much of the evils of our society.

[00:15:29] You know, like [00:15:30] 90% of the murders and- Yeah ... rapes and child abuse, domestic abuse, and of course driving and all that kind of stuff. It's a, it's like a [00:15:40] moral... In a sense, to me it's like a moral outrage. You know? Like if we just eliminated it, which we can't do, but if it was eliminated, it w- I'd be pretty interested to see just what our [00:15:50] society would look like-

[00:15:51] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:15:51] I mean

[00:15:51] ROCKY: it- ... without having that.

[00:15:52] KYLE: Yeah. But. And people are always gonna be searching for some sort of drug to, um, medicate with. Uh, but, um, yeah, I [00:16:00] mean, it's, there's no, there's no doubt it's extremely unhealthy, even just physically for your body. Like, uh, um, there's a lot of studies that would even say that it's a lot more damaging than weed would, weed would [00:16:10] be.

[00:16:10] Um, and, uh, just what it does to your... Like even one... And if I have one drink, my watch will tell me the next morning, "You didn't get re- re- REM sleep."

[00:16:18] ROCKY: Oh, oh really?

[00:16:18] KYLE: And

[00:16:19] ROCKY: so it, it, yeah. [00:16:20] I don't know much about that side of it. I would be more... I would be mostly interested in like why we see things a certain way as Christians.

[00:16:28] Like why- Hmm ... why [00:16:30] would we be okay with that? Whereas smoking really causes no harm at all, you know. There's this talk of like secondhand smoke, but really nobody has ever heard of a person dying of [00:16:40] secondhand smoke. And like smoking is more or less bad for you individually, but really ha- causes no societal problems.

[00:16:49] KYLE: [00:16:50] Oh, that- You know? But- ... that and that and that because it doesn't intoxicate you like alcohol does.

[00:16:53] ROCKY: Oh, it doesn't do anything.

[00:16:54] KYLE: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I see what you're saying. Um, interesting. And we don't

[00:16:57] ROCKY: really know the... Like when,

[00:16:59] KYLE: where I [00:17:00] was growing up, which might be different than your, which was different than the culture you grew up in, like our parents didn't drink.

[00:17:05] ROCKY: We grew up like in a conservative Christian circles, and drinking was kind [00:17:10] of like not really allowed. Hmm. And I think that that... So we all- But smoking was Uh, no. Oh. No, it wouldn't be either, but

[00:17:18] KYLE: mm. 'Cause I grew up where [00:17:20] smoking was very much normal, like where you walk out of church and there would be big circles of people, and they all had- were lighting up.

[00:17:27] Um, but apparently that's [00:17:30] more specific to the Dutch Reformed churches, and that's where in Holland, in Europe, it's very, still very much like that.

[00:17:36] ROCKY: Yeah.

[00:17:36] KYLE: But if you look at more evangelical mainstream [00:17:40] Christianity in, in North America, it would be the far majority would be, uh, exclusively against smoking, but there would be a broad spectrum of what people thought about drinking.[00:17:50]

[00:17:50] ROCKY: Well, I'm curious what the ramifications will be because I was, because my parents didn't drink any alcohol and, and, and really none of my friends, their parents did either. [00:18:00] We all grew up under a fairly healthy environment around alcohol, and now basically all of us do drink to some degree more or less, but there's no real abuse or basically none.

[00:18:09] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:18:09] ROCKY: [00:18:10] So like kind of the, the societal experiment that's happening is like our parents didn't drink. It'll, it, they really gifted us the freedom of being [00:18:20] able to handle alcohol appropriately, which I still don't have a problem with. Yeah. Like if people drink, that's, that's fine if it's handled appropriately.

[00:18:29] But [00:18:30] it'll be curious to see how our children growing up now in a different environment where their parents do drink and where alcohol- Mm ... is present in the home, whether [00:18:40] the jury's still out, whether that's gonna turn out well for our kids, you know, whether we're giving them the same gift that our parents-

[00:18:45] KYLE: Uh, that

[00:18:45] ROCKY: might-

[00:18:45] gave us- Yeah ... or whether that will lead to more problems.

[00:18:48] KYLE: I mean, I've definitely seen different [00:18:50] extremes. I've seen people that grew up with no alcohol, and because of that, they went hardcore into alcohol 'cause it was like completely banned for them, so they had no autonomy over it and wanted to go. [00:19:00] And I've seen people that grew up with a little bit of alcohol in their homes like I did, very little.

[00:19:04] You know, I think my parents probably had wine once a week or something. Mm-hmm. Um, [00:19:10] and occasional beer maybe at like once a summer or something, and I don't know. I just, I went pretty hard into it for a while and

[00:19:16] ROCKY: yeah. There's certainly extremes. There's always extremes. [00:19:20] But really you and I would agree that- Mm-hmm

[00:19:22] if there was no alcohol in our culture, you would have far less alcohol abuse like amongst the children too, you know? They-

[00:19:29] KYLE: Well, yeah, of course.

[00:19:29] ROCKY: [00:19:30] Yeah.

[00:19:30] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:19:30] ROCKY: So like there's always outliers- Yes, yes ... where kids who grew up like that would go off the rails later or whatever, but-

[00:19:35] KYLE: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, kid, um, uh, Trey would al- [00:19:40] often tell me exactly what y- you are, um, what you currently are is what your kids will become And he's like, "So whatever-" Oh,

[00:19:49] ROCKY: that's scary.[00:19:50]

[00:19:50] KYLE: Yeah, it is scary. It motivates you to work on yourself. Um, uh, but that-- Yeah, if you, if you're gonna most likely mimic what your parents are doing. [00:20:00] Mm. And then when it comes to, like, societal, like, acceptance of things, I think that's just everywhere. It's just certain things for different reasons get [00:20:10] s-socially accepted, and others don't.

[00:20:13] It's like when I, you know, like, uh, I think it was, like, almost two years ago when I just started this podcast. I think this is actually episode 104. [00:20:20] It is episode 104, which is exactly two years now.

[00:20:22] ROCKY: Oh, wow.

[00:20:22] KYLE: Um-

[00:20:22] ROCKY: Yes, congratulations.

[00:20:23] KYLE: Yeah. Um-

[00:20:25] ROCKY: I'm honored to be here on this, uh, anniversary. On the two-

[00:20:26] KYLE: on the-- Yeah, yeah.

[00:20:28] Uh, we're gonna celebrate with [00:20:30] a summer social about that. Uh, Gary, uh, had, uh, some interesting thoughts on that. Um, uh, now I forgot what I was saying. Something [00:20:40] about alcohol? I don't know. Um, right before that. I don't remember. Oh. I can't believe I just, like, did [00:20:50] through a total mind blank. Whatever, it must not have, must not have that been that important, so.

[00:20:55] What do you think about alcohol, Christian circles? [00:21:00] If it's in moderation, it's fine.

[00:21:01] ROCKY: Yeah, I think that too. But do you think we've thought it through, or do we just do what-- do we just do whatever, like, our buddies [00:21:10] are doing? Or do we have any reason why we drink? Because I've, I've thought of that too. Like, if someone asks me, "Why do you drink alcohol?"

[00:21:18] Mm-hmm. I would have a pretty tough [00:21:20] time answering that with any sort of, like, integrity behind it. It's like, well, why would I drink? I don't, I don't have a good answer for that other than I like it. But you can like lots of stuff .

[00:21:29] KYLE: Isn't that great answer? [00:21:30] 'Cause yeah, I like the taste and it takes, like even one drink, I, for me generally-

[00:21:33] ROCKY: Just like if you eat a bag of chips every night, it's like 'cause you like it.

[00:21:37] Yeah. I mean, that's not a good enough reason, you know?

[00:21:39] KYLE: Well, maybe it's [00:21:40] not enough- Or a bag of candy ... a good enough reason, uh, uh, to justify it, but it's, it's a good enough reason to explain why you're doing it.

[00:21:46] ROCKY: Yeah. Maybe, yeah.

[00:21:48] KYLE: To justify- Yeah ... yeah, if you do. I think

[00:21:49] ROCKY: you're

[00:21:49] KYLE: [00:21:50] right, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Are you, uh, happy with, um, the, the much amount of detail we went into this topic?

[00:21:58] Or could, or do you [00:22:00] wanna s- I don't wanna say less. I

[00:22:01] ROCKY: don't know if it matters about anything, but it's just thoughts that rattle through my

[00:22:02] KYLE: head. No, I mean, I, I agree more than anything about the fact that it's just generally unhealthy and should be minimized to the extreme. [00:22:10] Physically, it's terrible for you, and the effects it generally has on you are, are- What

[00:22:14] ROCKY: are the good effects?

[00:22:16] KYLE: There are none.

[00:22:16] ROCKY: Oh, okay.

[00:22:17] KYLE: Besides- Well,

[00:22:18] ROCKY: then we're, then

[00:22:18] KYLE: we're in agreement ... besides maybe, [00:22:20] like, taking the edge off for a couple hours. Oh.

[00:22:22] ROCKY: Hmm.

[00:22:22] KYLE: Right, like if there, if, if you could describe a benefit, that's, that's why people do it, right?

[00:22:26] ROCKY: Yeah.

[00:22:26] KYLE: You know what'd be interesting? I thought about this before. If, like, there was some magic button [00:22:30] to press, and that the effects of all drugs instantly had no more effect.

[00:22:35] So, like, people trying cocaine or whatever, street drugs or alcohol, it just wouldn't work [00:22:40] anymore. And like, how would people... They, they wouldn't know, though. How

[00:22:43] ROCKY: would they cope?

[00:22:44] KYLE: Yeah. What do you mean? Well, like, how would people start acting? Like- Oh ... I think it would just be complete, absolute mayhem. Like, it'd be [00:22:50] chaos.

[00:22:50] ROCKY: Freedom session would be full.

[00:22:52] KYLE: Oh, yeah.

[00:22:54] ROCKY: There'd be lineups.

[00:22:55] KYLE: Yeah, there'd be lineups, yeah. Okay. Is, uh, is high school [00:23:00] necessary or even important?

[00:23:01] ROCKY: Oh, yeah, this is one of my favorite topics lately.

[00:23:03] KYLE: Okay. Yeah.

[00:23:05] ROCKY: I, I've thought about this quite a bit 'cause it, it almost in the same way that- [00:23:10] That I think about alcohol, it's just that we've, we've just kind of went along with whatever-

[00:23:16] KYLE: The norm.

[00:23:17] ROCKY: Yeah, whatever the norm is. Don't

[00:23:18] KYLE: challenge the

[00:23:18] ROCKY: norms. So, so even just saying [00:23:20] something like, my kids won't go to high school, people gnash their teeth at that. You know, like it just rattles everybody. Do you

[00:23:25] KYLE: do that just to trigger people?

[00:23:27] ROCKY: No, but I seriously am considering that.

[00:23:29] KYLE: Oh, okay.

[00:23:29] ROCKY: [00:23:30] I'm considering the validity of high school.

[00:23:32] So I guess my theory a- about-

[00:23:35] KYLE: Can you define what you mean by high school?

[00:23:38] ROCKY: Well, I don't know, grade 10, 11, 12. [00:23:40]

[00:23:40] KYLE: Okay.

[00:23:40] ROCKY: Going to school for three more years after grade nine.

[00:23:43] KYLE: Okay. So high school for me

[00:23:44] ROCKY: was- I don't mean go, like as into the physical place. I mean, like participate in h- in school after [00:23:50] grade nine.

[00:23:50] KYLE: Yeah. Well, first of all, for me, high school was grade eight, nine, 10, 11, 12. So it's good that I clarified that. Oh, I see. Oh, yeah. So you're saying the last three grades, and you're saying- Or

[00:23:57] ROCKY: I don't know, pick your grade, whenever you wanna end. [00:24:00]

[00:24:00] KYLE: Okay. And, and are you saying, uh, like not going to physical school anymore, but still like doing, um, the basics of like, uh, learning to write and, and [00:24:10] learning, um, you know, how- Well,

[00:24:11] ROCKY: that should hopefully be done before then, but

[00:24:13] KYLE: yeah.

[00:24:13] ROCKY: There's cultures that exist even in our societies where there, where kids only go to grade nine. That's, and then they're done. [00:24:20] Yeah. You know, so I guess there's a bunch of things that intersect there for me. It- the, the current state of like high school education, which I'm not an authority on, but just from what I- It's [00:24:30] not good

[00:24:30] read or hear or listen to or whatever, it's like there's not a lot there anyway. So the case maybe I feel like is becoming stronger to just not even bother. Yeah. [00:24:40] But also, one of the things that I see happening, particularly, um, with kids my kids' age and even a little older, [00:24:50] yeah, even kids that are up to maybe just coming into adulthood now, is like, there's very few of those kids that work with their hands, and I have a job where I work with my hands, always have.

[00:24:58] So maybe I'm biased, [00:25:00] but we need, we're gonna need a lot of those- Oh, yeah ... kind of kids, and there's not a lot of work ethic developing in those years, you know, by and large. There- Yeah ... there still is, of course, in, in [00:25:10] certain circles and whatever, but mostly kids would not be leading a lifestyle as they're growing up that would lend well to like physical labor for the rest of their life.[00:25:20]

[00:25:20] Not- More or less. Working with their hands maybe, blue collar workers.

[00:25:24] KYLE: Mm.

[00:25:26] ROCKY: So I think maybe for the, as a [00:25:30] dad who cares about his kids, I wanna do what's best for them, and I think maybe one of the things that would be best for them, it would be to invest in them in a [00:25:40] way that I thought would make the most sense as they got older, and that would include something like steering them maybe towards a blue collar job- Mm-hmm

[00:25:48] and away from- Yeah ... like a [00:25:50] job that would require- Yeah ... university

[00:25:51] KYLE: education. It's interesting, I know in Holland they actually have, um, three types of schools, and they actually start splitting you up quite early already, [00:26:00] like in grades fi- four and five, depending if you wanna go trades route, uh, the academic route, and I think there's a third route, maybe an arts route or whatever.

[00:26:07] Mm-hmm. But then if they go the trades route, [00:26:10] that they actually, by the time they are the age of grade nine and 10, they're, the majority of their time is actually working. But they're, they're learning a trade w- way earlier on already than- Mm ... to, um, [00:26:20] I real- I really like that idea. Um, but the current system of how education works in Canada at least, or North America- Mm

[00:26:27] um, with like traditional school, [00:26:30] I think it's m- maybe effective for like 50% of the kids there. You think it's that effective? 50%? 50%, yeah. Uh, I mean, [00:26:40] I'm just taking a stab- Yeah ... ballpark number, but, you know, like for what you actually gain out of those years, um, uh, um,

yeah. Like I didn't gain anything. I'd be much, I would've been much better off working.[00:26:50]

[00:26:50] ROCKY: Yeah, that's maybe, maybe part of it too. It's like if I just spent three years as their dad investing in them, in both the girls and [00:27:00] the boys, in a way that would- Produce the best long-term outcome 'cause I wanna be a grandpa one day, you know, 60, [00:27:10] 70, and have adult kids that are raising their families. And what I would most want for them is that they're like godly parents that love their [00:27:20] spouses, love God.

[00:27:21] They're- whatever they're doing, they're seeking to honor him. And so then when I compare that to like, do-- [00:27:30] will I have cared if they did grade 11 chemistry? You know, like I- Yeah ... it wouldn't matter to me at all. No. And right now it seems like it's an issue. You know, if I, if [00:27:40] I actually didn't send my kids to high school, there'd be a lot of people that would question that.

[00:27:44] But I, in going forward, I think, I wonder if it would only have been better for them. [00:27:50] Like if I just, either me or I, or they get hired by somebody else in, when they're 15, and they just go and work, would they, would those three years be [00:28:00] better spent under the learning how to work a- and serving at someone else's company- Yeah

[00:28:06] or figuring out what they wanna do long term rather than [00:28:10] going through the kind of motions of what high school would

[00:28:13] KYLE: produce? Yeah. Yeah, I'm guessing they're gonna be doing better under you. But I also think that this issue [00:28:20] on its own is probably not that great of a percentage of if your kids are gonna be h- healthy, happy individuals i, i- in their 20s and [00:28:30] 30s and have kids and grandkids for you because they didn't go to high school for three years.

[00:28:34] It'll be b- because you all throughout their childhood, you know, loved them and, [00:28:40] and shepherded them and instilled values into them and everything else like that. That, that's gonna be the thing that's gonna shape them more than anything. Like those, those three years in- Yeah, for sure ... in high school is gonna be a, I think a, a [00:28:50] small percentage.

[00:28:51] I do think education though is always important. Like, like when, I don't know what grade, how old you would be, 15, 14, 15 in grade nine? [00:29:00] Something like that.

[00:29:00] ROCKY: Yeah.

[00:29:01] KYLE: Yeah. Like I, I s- I, like I think it's not a bad idea for a lot of those people to go work, but I do think education is something that should keep going.

[00:29:08] Like it's just not n- [00:29:10] necessarily in the high school setting, but like if it's a trade or if it's, you just like always be learning. I just think it's healthy to be challenging your brain and growing and pushing yourself. [00:29:20] Um, and, and so I think that's... But that's different than high school specifically.

[00:29:24] ROCKY: Well, education would pr- would give you a different connotation than learning. So if what you say is you want your kids to [00:29:30] continue in education, that would be a different Um, connotation than if you just said, "I would want my kids to keep learning, to always keep learning." Okay. Yeah, fair enough. [00:29:40] Curiosity, kind of like your podcast, is what I'm hoping to breed in my children.

[00:29:44] Like, they will, they will always be curious, you know- Yeah ... about whate- whatever you're [00:29:50] doing. So they're, they're people who are engaged with other people. When you t- when you're talking to them, they're curious about, like, what's going on or whether that's different types of work or whatever.

[00:29:58] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:29:59] ROCKY: Yeah.

[00:29:59] That's [00:30:00] how I would kind of maybe

[00:30:00] KYLE: view their education. Yeah. Yeah, so that's what I mean too with education is just learning, like, and having that attitude of, like, not assuming you know everything.

[00:30:06] ROCKY: Yeah.

[00:30:06] KYLE: Be curious. Um, like be willing to be challenged [00:30:10] on your ideas. Um, and, uh, yeah.

[00:30:14] ROCKY: Those are some of the intangibles, but I'd be curious to know what the tangible benefits of that would be [00:30:20] too.

[00:30:20] Like, for a boy to become a man at 15 instead of 18, which I like, I, I would prefer my kids to be like that.

[00:30:28] KYLE: But they could do that if they went to high school or not, right? [00:30:30]

[00:30:30] ROCKY: Could they?

[00:30:30] KYLE: Become a man.

[00:30:31] ROCKY: Do they? It's like-

[00:30:32] KYLE: Well, currently they're not because of other reasons. They're just being sent to school, and there's no, a lot of, um, almost no [00:30:40] discipleship or, or, or shepherding happening.

[00:30:42] But I think you can, uh, like I'm pretty confident and-

[00:30:46] ROCKY: I'm not saying you couldn't, but, but by and large they [00:30:50] don't. You know, kids don't come out of high school- Well, yeah ... as men and women.

[00:30:53] KYLE: No, generally not, because they're, they're, um... I think that's more happening because of what's happening at home though than what's happening at [00:31:00] school.

[00:31:00] But that being said, idle, idle time, there's something, there's a quote about, lots of different quotes out there about idle time, like not being good for you and- Yeah ... and bored and not being [00:31:10] challenged. Like, you have a crap ton, especially as a guy, you have a crap ton of energy and, you know, um, um, go to, at, at that age and so it's probably [00:31:20] better, yeah, to use that in a, in a setting to use that.

[00:31:23] But I don't think it's not necessarily true that you can't.

[00:31:26] ROCKY: No, I don't think that either, but they don't, you know.

[00:31:28] KYLE: Gen- generally speaking, yeah.

[00:31:29] ROCKY: You're [00:31:30] always, you're always playing kind of like the, the odds I guess if you do that.

[00:31:32] KYLE: Yeah. A lot of them are still acting like kids and I think partially because it's allowed.

[00:31:36] Yeah, totally. Like when you allow certain behavior, it'll keep [00:31:40] happening.

[00:31:40] ROCKY: Totally.

[00:31:41] KYLE: So.

[00:31:42] ROCKY: Nice, really nice segue into the next topic because-

[00:31:46] KYLE: Okay. Yeah, I was curious. The practical role. Okay, uh, [00:31:50] Rocky's third topic here. The practical role of the man in the home, including how soft or firm a man should be towards his children.[00:32:00]

[00:32:01] Okay.

[00:32:02] ROCKY: Am I starting again or are you starting again?

[00:32:04] KYLE: No, uh, these are your topics.

[00:32:07] ROCKY: Huh.

[00:32:07] KYLE: I'll start my topics.

[00:32:08] ROCKY: I'm curious, I'm curious [00:32:10] what people would say to that. Like, what is a man's role in the home? Like, what, what should he do? And y- I mean, I don't know if we're talking so much straight down to, like, is he making supper every other night or [00:32:20] whatever, but I'm, I mean, specifically in parenting, my wife and I have very defined roles in our home.

[00:32:27] Like, we would be considered very traditional. [00:32:30] Not because I'm trying to adhere to any specific philosophy, but I, I firmly believe, as probably most of people listening do, that God [00:32:40] created a m- a man and a woman different and complementary. Totally different, very complementary. So we have two roles in our home that are not better or worse, but they're distinct.

[00:32:49] [00:32:50] Like, we don't blend them very much at all And so I sometimes am trying to figure that out. Like, we talk about [00:33:00] it together quite a bit, but with the intent that continually kind of working on that and figuring out what my role is, because it matters to me a lot, and I want, I [00:33:10] want to do it well. So whether that's, like, providing for my family, like physically being the provider, I know this isn't gonna fit with everybody's family, but this is our [00:33:20] roles at our house.

[00:33:21] And then how, like, I'm the principal authoritarian in our, in our home. Like, the kids sort of, um, [00:33:30] if any real discipline has to happen, it basically always comes through me. So we have a little bit of the kinda like, "Wait till your dad gets home," kind of thing.

[00:33:38] KYLE: Yeah. [00:33:40] Yeah.

[00:33:40] ROCKY: And whether that's good for kids or not good for kids, you know, these are all questions that I'm, I'm constantly trying to figure out, but I, I think it is.

[00:33:48] And having, [00:33:50] like, uh, the dad provide the firm boundaries in a family, I think is probably the most beneficial, [00:34:00] not because I think so, but because I think that's God's design, and the closer we get to His design, probably the better it functions, you know? Yeah. So [00:34:10] I've, I've tried hard to do that. I, I stole some of that from lots of other people, Jordan Peterson and others that I listen to, but that the boundaries...

[00:34:19] There's a great book [00:34:20] by, by, uh, Richard Foster, Celebration of Discipline, and, uh, that's more about spiritual disciplines, but the same concept applies, that the boundaries [00:34:30] provide the freedom. Like, the s- the, the firmness that, uh, the father provides creates the freedom within, within that [00:34:40] circle. And so I've, I have been pretty firm with my kids.

[00:34:43] Like, they, there are things they're allowed to do, and then there's things they're definitely not allowed to do. There's only certain ways they're [00:34:50] allowed to talk to me or you or, or their mom or each other. Um, and I think that that, that, um, creates a [00:35:00] healthy environment for kids to grow up in.

[00:35:03] KYLE: So I, I, I think it's extremely healthy to grow up in an environment like that, and to have really clear boundaries and know that [00:35:10] certain things can't be crossed and stuff like that.

[00:35:12] Like, it teaches you respect and all those things like that. But I think it should be... It's m- most effective when it's also [00:35:20] partnered with a, a dad who's loving.

[00:35:23] ROCKY: Oh, yeah, of course.

[00:35:24] KYLE: Yeah. Um, but a lot of people don't, of course, that, where it's like a, a super heavy-handed [00:35:30] angry dad that is demanding that. Well, then you're actually getting people that are just behavior modifying so they don't get dad's anger or lack of acceptance, [00:35:40] but they don't actually care about these things at all for the reason why you're doing them, and then when they go out into the world, they're not- they're just gonna leave it behind 'cause they have no respect for their dad who [00:35:50] instilled these habits in them.

[00:35:50] But if you do it with a loving dad, then they understand why you talk to your mom a certain way or other people, or like why certain things are not [00:36:00] acceptable, and then they're gonna want to do them as well, right? That it's not like a, a rules thing. Just like when God changes our hearts, we don't follow Him because we have to, [00:36:10] because we want to.

[00:36:11] And I think that's when you raise your kids in a way that with love, but then also firm boundaries, then they- you will get, uh, a healthy [00:36:20] child.

[00:36:22] ROCKY: Yeah. I think it's the dad's role to provide, to provide the boundary and also to provide the freedom, to give the kids the [00:36:30] freedom to enjoy working within the boundaries.

[00:36:33] So like a good example at our house was a few years ago, our oldest son was learning how to use a jigsaw, you know, which is [00:36:40] sharp and has moving components and could cut you or, or whatever, and he was, he was kind of learning how to figure that out. And so I talked with that, with, through that with him a [00:36:50] lot.

[00:36:50] It's like there's... If you think about it, there's literally a million things that you cannot do with a jigsaw. Like, you're not allowed to cut metal with it. You're not allowed to cut your sister with it. [00:37:00] You're not- You have to cut certain types of wood that's clean. You can't leave it out in the rain, you know, on and on and on.

[00:37:07] So there's a million rules. There- Like, [00:37:10] people that don't have rules, I, I don't know that I grasp that concept. It's like, no, there's a million rules for everything. And,

[00:37:15] KYLE: and why would you call it a rule? Like when I, when I think of like, think of the bandsaw example, it [00:37:20] wouldn't be- Jigsaw. Jigsaw. It wouldn't be a rule for me that they couldn't, um, you know, cut metal with it.

[00:37:27] I would just... It would be more of- Well, it would [00:37:30] wreck the blade. Yeah, but it's not like a, a, a r- In my mind, I wouldn't call it a rule. I would just call it a, "That's not what the tool is used for." Right? It's not like I'm not gonna tell a kid [00:37:40] you can't, you know, mow the fla- like, you know, give them a list of things they can't mow, um, with the lawnmower.

[00:37:47] It's more just like the lawnmower is designed to mow the grass. [00:37:50] I'd des- I would describe its purpose more than I would describe what it's not for. Right, but you can't take it on the driveway, right? Or, or over the rocks,

[00:37:57] ROCKY: or like there certainly would be things- Yeah,

[00:37:59] KYLE: not, not [00:38:00] on ...

[00:38:00] ROCKY: you would say it's not for- Yeah

[00:38:01] even just practically speaking.

[00:38:01] KYLE: Yeah, yeah. But I wouldn't call it a rule. I would just call it a description. But you specifically call it a rule. Yeah. You like, you like rules, so.

[00:38:07] ROCKY: Oh, yeah. I love rules.

[00:38:08] KYLE: Yeah. What do you like about [00:38:10] rules? They give you clear boundaries? They

[00:38:12] ROCKY: provide freedom.

[00:38:13] KYLE: Oh, yeah.

[00:38:13] ROCKY: Give clear boundaries and provide freedom.

[00:38:15] If you know the rules. I think, I think life is governed by rules. [00:38:20] Like if you're gonna play a game, for instance, the less rules there are, the less fun it is.

[00:38:24] KYLE: Mm.

[00:38:24] ROCKY: Right? I... Jordan Peterson uses this example- Yeah ... of, of a chessboard. No [00:38:30] rules. You can do whatever you want. Well, of course there's no fun or like enjoyment- Yeah

[00:38:33] and really there's no freedom in the game. Yeah. If you... Chess, again, has a million, I'm not [00:38:40] sure what to call them, but rules or boundaries. Like this guy moves here- Mm ... this guy moves in this direction, and you stay on your side and move your pieces only. Yeah. And if you do those things, there's a [00:38:50] lot of freedom and fun- Yeah

[00:38:51] enjoyment

[00:38:51] KYLE: in

[00:38:51] ROCKY: that. Yeah.

[00:38:52] KYLE: Okay, so you would define also then rules to be different than what's sinful? Yeah, I

[00:38:58] ROCKY: think so, yeah

[00:38:59] KYLE: Okay Or

[00:38:59] ROCKY: [00:39:00] why would you equate them?

[00:39:01] KYLE: Uh, I think, uh, at least growing up, I would've equated them the same. Like, if it's a rule, then it must be bad. Oh, I see. And that it's, and that it's, [00:39:10] uh, like, then it's sin, uh, versus it just being, uh, just like a, on a jigsaw, it just- Like

[00:39:16] ROCKY: parameters or-

[00:39:17] KYLE: Yeah, yeah, just like a-

[00:39:18] ROCKY: Yeah

[00:39:19] KYLE: use [00:39:20] case or,

[00:39:20] ROCKY: yeah. Just to finish that kind of analogy, so when- once he learned how to do that, you know, then you can use, he could use my jigsaw [00:39:30] for anything- Mm-hmm ... you know, within the parameters. Yeah. Like, once you know what you can and can't do with it, now it's just free reign. You can- Yeah ... like I'm telling him, "You can use it whenever you want, as long as [00:39:40] you keep the battery charged- Yeah

[00:39:41] grab some blades, use them, take the whatever wood you want." So, and then he just f- he flourished under that. Yeah. It's like, okay, well now I know he [00:39:50] knows where, where the- Yeah ... gutters are, and as long as I stay in between those guardrails, it's like I can do anything.

[00:39:55] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:39:56] ROCKY: And I love seeing kids do that.

[00:39:58] KYLE: I think that's what the Bible s- [00:40:00] does for us, right?

[00:40:01] Like, it's kinda like the handbook for life. When we believe in Jesus, we're free from the law, and we can do what we want, but we want to do it the way that the handbook [00:40:10] describes- Mm-hmm ... and that's where the freedom is. When you follow God and do what He says, regardless of if you like it or not-

[00:40:16] ROCKY: Yeah

[00:40:16] KYLE: that's, that's when I've experienced the most freedom. Like I've- I'm the most free I've [00:40:20] ever been, and it's just like I actually believe that if I wanna be happy, I'm gonna do it His way, not mine.

[00:40:25] ROCKY: Yeah.

[00:40:26] KYLE: So-

[00:40:26] ROCKY: Totally.

[00:40:27] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:40:27] ROCKY: We need boundaries. Yeah. We [00:40:30] need, we need something-

[00:40:30] KYLE: Or know, or know, yeah, know the, know the purpose of things.

[00:40:34] Know why we're here. I think that's one of the biggest pro- problems in society is, like, people think they're here for themselves, for [00:40:40] their own joy and pleasure and happiness. It's like, no, you're not. Like, if you think that, if you're the center of your own world, you're not gonna serve other people. When you know you're part of something much bigger, and it's not about [00:40:50] you and your glory, well then it's much easier also to serve other people.

[00:40:53] You know that's not about you. Mm-hmm. And I think that if y- because people aren't taught, you know, the map, like, [00:41:00] like, o- of, of life, of why we're here, why we're in this world.

[00:41:03] ROCKY: And you and I both know that those things lead to chains. You think it leads to freedom, but it leads- Yeah ... to chains, going your own way.

[00:41:09] [00:41:10] You know, you- we've done freedom session together, figuring out our own stuff there, and w- we thought Or at least we must have believed it 'cause we were [00:41:20] doing it, that it would lead to better than-

[00:41:22] KYLE: Yeah ...

[00:41:22] ROCKY: God's way, but-

[00:41:24] KYLE: Well, I think our actions show- Didn't turn out ... our actions show what we believe, and so it's just, there's a lot...

[00:41:29] You can see the [00:41:30] actions of a lot of people that don't believe God when he says, "If you do it my way, you'll be happy." Right? I mean, that's what ultimately the, the whole sin problem is, right? Is that we take-- we don't [00:41:40] believe God at his word, right? We don't trust him, and we trust ourselves. Yeah. That's the, that's what we need to repent from.

[00:41:47] ROCKY: Mm-hmm.

[00:41:48] KYLE: Like as Christ king or, yeah. [00:41:50] What do you build-- what do you think about, uh, um, like being angry at your kids? Uh, do you think that's right?

[00:41:58] ROCKY: You're not gonna like this.

[00:41:59] KYLE: [00:42:00] Okay.

[00:42:02] ROCKY: F- I would get frustrated a lot, but not angry, remember? We've had this- Oh, yeah ... conversation.

[00:42:06] KYLE: I should pull up, uh, Ken Dick's, um, definition of frustration.

[00:42:09] ROCKY: [00:42:10] I don't know if he-- I don't know if he's the authority on frustration, but you're not allowed to use it in freedom session, of course. You can't use the word frustrated, but now that I'm done, I use [00:42:20] it all the time.

[00:42:24] I think anger is obviously-- Well, it doesn't matter what I think. Anger is [00:42:30] appropriate, is an appropriate response to

[00:42:36] Which maybe everyone would agree with. It would be, uh, the difficulty would come down in [00:42:40] figuring out what to what would you respond in anger?

[00:42:43] KYLE: Mm.

[00:42:44] ROCKY: How, how would that become beneficial for your kids and-

[00:42:49] KYLE: So my [00:42:50] kid ma- uh, keyed my car really badly a couple years ago. Um, would that have been a situation where I should have got angry 'cause I didn't?[00:43:00]

[00:43:00] Uh, actually I was inside a little bit. Um, but I didn't, there was no- nothing visible at all. Uh, you think there should be something visible in a case like that? [00:43:10]

[00:43:11] ROCKY: I don't know case by case,

[00:43:14] KYLE: but- Or, or do you have any examples of when it's good for them to see?

[00:43:18] ROCKY: If my, if my children [00:43:20] were treated unjustly by a friend or by a neighbor, I would be angry.

[00:43:24] Like-

[00:43:25] KYLE: Okay, yeah ...

[00:43:25] ROCKY: so I'm not sure.

[00:43:28] KYLE: I'd have to think about- So, so, so I, I guess, yeah, the d- [00:43:30] differentiate, differentiate feeling angry and yelling at your kids or yelling- Well, I don't- ... or hitting at, hitting, hitting them. Yeah, yeah. You know, like-

[00:43:37] ROCKY: Well, if that's what we're talking about, no, I don't. I try not to yell and hit my [00:43:40] kids.

[00:43:42] KYLE: Okay,

[00:43:42] ROCKY: here. All that doesn't sound like a healthy

[00:43:44] KYLE: family. This is Ken Dick's point. I'll read this. Ken Dick's point is that frustrated is usually too vague to accurately [00:43:50] describe what you're feeling. It's often a surface level catch-all word that keeps you from identifying the deeper emotion underneath.

[00:43:56] When someone says, "I'm frustrated," the better question is, "What am I actually [00:44:00] feeling beneath the frustration?" It might be angry because you feel ignored, hurt because you feel rejected, afraid that something will not work out, disappointed because your expectations were not met, [00:44:10] powerless because you cannot control the outcome, disrespected, unimportant, overwhelmed, or misunderstood.

[00:44:14] The problem with frustration is that it describes the experience of being, the experience of being [00:44:20] blocked, but it does not clearly identify the emotional wound. You cannot properly work through, communicate, or take responsibility for an emotion you have not accurately named [00:44:30] This fits the freedom session broader teaching.

[00:44:32] Healing requires honesty and specifically identifying the pain, beliefs, wounds, and emotions beneath their reactions instead of masking them with broad language [00:44:40] and unhealthy coping strategies. That's Ken's, that's Ken's point. That's quite a bit.

[00:44:46] ROCKY: He

[00:44:46] KYLE: must have thought about it more than I have. So he, okay, he gives one example [00:44:50] here.

[00:44:50] Um, so instead of I'm frustrated with my wife, you might say I am hurt and unimportant, and unimportant because I don't feel heard. The [00:45:00] second sentence is far more vulnerable and far more useful. Frustrated often sounds like the other person is the problem. Accurately naming the feeling reveals what is actually happening inside you[00:45:10]

[00:45:12] ROCKY: I d- I guess I don't just, I just don't have as much of a problem with it as he does. I kinda like that it's a catch-all phrase. It's like people-

[00:45:18] KYLE: I don't like identifying what I'm [00:45:20] actually feeling. This is way better ...

[00:45:21] ROCKY: I'm, I'm okay if people are frustrated with me, too. Like, I know that when I do a certain thing in my home, my wife would be frustrated.

[00:45:28] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:45:28] ROCKY: It's like, that's fine for [00:45:30] me. I don't, I don't know. I don't lose any sleep over

[00:45:32] KYLE: that. Yeah. But yeah, I think- Well, that's, that's, that's pretty clear.

[00:45:38] ROCKY: Yeah, I think it's a great, [00:45:40] it's a great catch-all. Allows me to put all of the things that I feel into one, into one, uh-

[00:45:45] KYLE: Yeah ...

[00:45:45] ROCKY: tidy package. Yeah.

[00:45:47] KYLE: I, uh, I did grab a couple, [00:45:50] um, um, verses, uh, knowing that we were gonna talk about this, um, because I think it's, uh, really, yeah, really, like you said, really important to have [00:46:00] guidelines, parameters, rules, whatever they are, for kids.

[00:46:02] I think that's when they thrive. Like right now, that, I heard Lori Throness came on recently, he was on the school board, and he said when a kid freaks out in [00:46:10] school now, all the other kids in the classroom have to leave the classroom and walk the hallways till the kid calms down.

[00:46:14] ROCKY: Oh, yeah.

[00:46:15] KYLE: Like, that's an extreme case, of course, but, like, that's so terrible.

[00:46:19] ROCKY: When you say [00:46:20] extreme, it, that, it's not really extreme anymore. That's the norm. You know, that's becoming the, that's- Yeah ... this is how we're gonna handle these situations.

[00:46:26] KYLE: Yeah. Well, who, yeah, yeah. Who's gonna be more, more calm? I mean, who's the boss there, right? The people, the person freaking [00:46:30] out.

[00:46:30] ROCKY: Yeah, yeah.

[00:46:30] KYLE: Right? And it's just, yeah, terrible. So I, I'm against that. But I'm also against, um, the, uh, um, it, it being done or parenting being done in a way where [00:46:40] it's just a rules-based-

[00:46:42] ROCKY: Yeah,

[00:46:42] KYLE: of course ... system with no love.

[00:46:43] ROCKY: Yeah. Of course.

[00:46:44] KYLE: And that, but that was something that was hard for me to comprehend when it came to [00:46:50] God, that he was actually loving and gentle and kind and caring and, but there were a few things that, verses that stuck out to me over the years, and first is Romans 2:4.

[00:46:58] Um, [00:47:00] "Don't you see how wonderfully kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Does this mean nothing to you? Can't you see that His kindness is intended to turn you from your sin?" [00:47:10] I think it's translated in another version, it's the kindness of God that leads us to repentance. And I think as a dad, when you're discipling your kids, disciplining them, discipling them, [00:47:20] raising them, it sh- should be done with that same mindset, that it's just like my...

[00:47:25] I think it's gonna be our, uh, the, the love our kids see in us [00:47:30] for them that will make them want to follow and obey what we're, um, teaching them Then, uh, another one is, um, the [00:47:40] first time God ever describes himself in the Old Testament. So I always um, kind of view the Old Testament God as a big angry God, and then the New Testament God as loving.

[00:47:48] But the first time God [00:47:50] explicitly lists his attributes and describes his character is in Exodus thirty-four six, seven, after Moses asks to see his glory, and God passes by and declares himself, "The [00:48:00] Lord, the Lord, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness." And I was like, wow, this is like after Mount Sinai and like all this [00:48:10] craziness, and that's still how, how he describes himself.

[00:48:13] Um, and the last one was, uh, actually kind of like more, I think, reflecting of the human heart, [00:48:20] um, and how different it is than God's. And that's from, uh, Jonah four, which has the title of Jo- Jonah's anger at the Lord's compassion. Um, [00:48:30] and I think I'm reading from verse one. "This change of plans greatly upset Jonah, and he became very angry.

[00:48:34] So he complained to, to the Lord about it. 'Didn't I say before I left home that you would do this? Lord, [00:48:40] this is why I ran away to Tarshish. I knew that you are a merciful and compassionate God, slow to get angry and filled with unfailing love. You are eager to turn back from [00:48:50] destroying people.' And, uh, I just think in this world that is also just not something that you see a lot in, [00:49:00] um, leadership or in churches or in, in, uh, with, uh, in homes and stuff like that.

[00:49:05] There's just, there's the human side of like justice and, and anger and [00:49:10] like my way, but there's not that softness that, um, that is, you know, so unique to who God is. Um, and I think makes the, [00:49:20] makes him him. Yeah, like that's, yeah.

[00:49:24] ROCKY: Yeah. He's also much more severe than we give him credit for. Like you and I have had this [00:49:30] conversation, and I agree that God's first and primary response always is kindness and mercy, and the, and scripture shows us that [00:49:40] over and over again.

[00:49:41] But I was reading even just this morning, and it just caught me off guard again, although I've-

[00:49:45] KYLE: You're a little far away from the microphone ...

[00:49:46] ROCKY: I've noticed that quite a few times that Jesus, [00:49:50] he- it said he was invited in, I think it was in Luke. He was invited into the home of a Pharisee, and the Pharisee was astonished that he didn't wash his hands before- Hmm

[00:49:58] he was eating. It doesn't even say [00:50:00] that the Pharisee said anything. And Jesus' response to all that, Jesus noticed he was astonished, and he start, he started into kind of the famous Pharisee sermon. You know, "You whitewash tombs. You-

[00:50:09] KYLE: [00:50:10] Hmm ...

[00:50:10] ROCKY: you clean the outside, but the inside is full of dead man's bones, and you tithe mint and rue, but you neglect- Yeah

[00:50:18] the weightier matters," or [00:50:20] whatever. I forget exactly how it goes. But I was just shocked again by how Jesus responds. Like, you might not call that frustrated, or I don't know what you would call it, but [00:50:30] his response probably was anger to kind of the misappropriation of his laws- Hmm ... and of his word. And I'm not [00:50:40] sure how that would practically happen in a home, like as, as the leader of the home, the dad in the home, but I think there is a place for when this is wrong at, at a deep sense, [00:50:50] not like in a way that irritates me, but at a deep level that this is wrong what's going on, then anger is a proper response to that.

[00:50:57] KYLE: Yeah. As long as it's your anger that's ma- [00:51:00] you're managing, like in not, in lash, like doing something that you don't wanna do. But yes, the, the, the, the, it's not sinful. S- feeling angry is not sin. [00:51:10] Um, there is moments we feel angry, and love and anger go to, go together a- as one. Um, definitely agree with that.

[00:51:17] I think, yeah, and, and the severity o- of, [00:51:20] of God is most shown on the cross, right? Like the most severe thing God could have ever done is kill and let his own son [00:51:30] be killed-

[00:51:30] ROCKY: Mm-hmm ...

[00:51:31] KYLE: by a people that didn't even want him. Right? Like that is the most severe... It's, it's insane. Like it's, it's beyond, beyond anything.

[00:51:38] And, and so that [00:51:40] shows how serious sin must be, that the cost was that high.

[00:51:43] ROCKY: Right.

[00:51:44] KYLE: Right? Like it's, it's, it's staggering. Mm-hmm. Um, and it's also [00:51:50] terrifying for the people that don't believe. Yeah. 'Cause then that severity that is, that they're now being shielded from because, you know, He's offering grace, um, [00:52:00] that offer will be gone.

[00:52:00] ROCKY: Mm-hmm. Yeah, sobering.

[00:52:05] KYLE: Don't wanna end with such just such a dark thought. I guess it's not dark in the sense that you're still [00:52:10] alive if you're listening to this. So if you're not a Christian, repent, and go read your Bible and, and keep reading un- until you, you know, can believe [00:52:20] and, and, and, uh, see f- that He is the Christ.

[00:52:23] He is, um, God.

[00:52:26] ROCKY: Mm-hmm. Yep.

[00:52:28] KYLE: Anything else? [00:52:30] Nope. Okay. I thought we could watch one reel that I pulled up. A reel? Yeah, we could react to it. Okay. It's a little clip from, um, [00:52:40] John Piper. It's about a minute long.

[00:52:41] ROCKY: Okay.

[00:52:41] KYLE: And it's with the title, um... What is it here? Pull it up. Uh, c- uh, My Christian Friends Are Boring[00:52:50]

[00:52:57] And I have more fun with all my unbelieving friends [00:53:00] I don't like the Christians I know, and I have more fun with all my unbelieving friends If that's [00:53:10] you, I think you should ask two questions. One, do you know any Christians? I mean, Christians. I mean [00:53:20] churchgoers. I mean radical people who lay their lives down because Jesus means everything to them.

[00:53:29] They're [00:53:30] servants of the world because Jesus has moved into their lives, turned everything upside down, broken them free from their love affair with the world [00:53:40] and their ego and power and money and sex, and they're radical people. Do you know anybody? Maybe you don't know anybody like that to dislike. The [00:53:50] second question you should ask is, why would it be that you, a professing Christian, would find more joy [00:54:00] in people who find no joy in what is your primary joy?

[00:54:06] What would, what, what would that mean?[00:54:10]

[00:54:13] ROCKY: A bit

[00:54:14] KYLE: of a satirical question there.

[00:54:16] ROCKY: Yeah.

[00:54:18] KYLE: I, uh, it stuck out to me [00:54:20] because I grew up saying that. I remember my mom actually saying, um, this to me. Um, shout out my, to my buddy Arn. He's like, she, um, when I was like 18, she said, "Why don't you go hang out with Arn?" I'm [00:54:30] like, "That's boring." Like, "I don't wanna hang out with my, like, um, um, Christian friends."

[00:54:36] Mm. Um, and, uh, it's because my heart wasn't changed, and [00:54:40] so I couldn't find joy in what they found their ultimate joy in, which was Christ, 'cause my, that's not where my, my joy was. Um, but then I also think, [00:54:50] I like his other point as well, that there is just, like, there's a lot of people that go to church that are religious, that call themselves Christians, that do Christianity a really bad service [00:55:00] because they- Yeah

[00:55:01] are not, uh, they don't actually follow what, who Jesus is and what he says.

[00:55:07] ROCKY: No fun to be around.

[00:55:08] KYLE: No. Like some, [00:55:10] the happiest people I know are Christians. Like genuinely, like, joyful people, and they treat everybody the same, and doesn't mean they're not f- [00:55:20] their lives don't have tons of hardship in it. I think actually almost all of them have had extreme hardship, and they've got through it, and that's probably why they've, you know, become the people [00:55:30] they are.

[00:55:30] Yeah. Um,

[00:55:32] ROCKY: yeah. My, my growing up was a little different maybe because I don't know that I found my Christian friends fun because they laid their lives down [00:55:40] before Jesus, but they were fun. Like- Mm ... we grew up pretty rural and wild, and there was a lot of freedom, lots of space, and lots of freedom. Yeah. So [00:55:50]

[00:55:50] KYLE: we did have a ton of fun.

[00:55:51] That's the space and freedom that sounds fun. It doesn't sound like the people. Yeah,

[00:55:53] ROCKY: it probably was. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:55:54] KYLE: Well,

[00:55:54] ROCKY: the

[00:55:54] KYLE: people were

[00:55:54] ROCKY: fun too, but we didn't get- Well,

[00:55:56] KYLE: people are fun when you're far away from them. What do you mean? [00:56:00] Distance makes the heart grow fonder, right? Oh. So just like being more isolated.

[00:56:03] ROCKY: I'm still friends with those guys.

[00:56:04] KYLE: Like generally, there's more, way less crime in more rural areas because- Oh, [00:56:10]

[00:56:10] ROCKY: I see ... you're

[00:56:10] KYLE: not living on-

[00:56:11] ROCKY: There's more space

[00:56:11] KYLE: between people ... yeah, not living on top of each other. Oh,

[00:56:12] ROCKY: I didn't catch your point there.

[00:56:15] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:56:16] ROCKY: Yeah. No, but I think his, his point is valid.[00:56:20]

[00:56:22] But I don't know if that was a little convicting. It's like, I don't know, am I any fun to be around? I don't think, uh, joy and [00:56:30] happiness might not be the first words you would use to describe me, but-

[00:56:32] KYLE: I th- I would say you're, um, pretty welcoming and kind, though. Like I- Try to

[00:56:36] ROCKY: be kind, yeah.

[00:56:37] KYLE: Yeah, like at church you're generally one of the first people [00:56:40] that's talking to someone new, and you take an interest in people and care about them

[00:56:43] ROCKY: and- One of the scariest thing-

[00:56:44] KYLE: Maybe once y- maybe once you get to know them you're kind of

[00:56:46] ROCKY: boring.

[00:56:47] One of the scariest things I can think of is [00:56:50] that, for real, this actually is extremely sobering, but that my kids are shaping their view of God based on me as their dad, you know? Because- They for

[00:56:57] KYLE: sure are.

[00:56:58] ROCKY: Well, that's what I mean, yeah. It's [00:57:00] very scary. That's how most people do. Maybe, maybe that's how all people do.

[00:57:03] I don't know.

[00:57:04] KYLE: So they're gonna think God's a stoic?

[00:57:05] ROCKY: I don't know what they're gonna think. They'll be so confused. [00:57:10]

[00:57:10] KYLE: That's why, that's why we all, 'cause none of our dads, anybody's dad ever have lived, uh, is not doing it justice at all, and if we can, um, to [00:57:20] read the word and find out who their real father is.

[00:57:23] Yeah. So anyways, hope you guys enjoyed that. Uh, you wanna add anything? [00:57:30]

[00:57:30] ROCKY: No, I don't. Thanks for having me on your podcast.

[00:57:32] KYLE: Yeah. Bull River-

[00:57:33] ROCKY: Tone & Craft ...

[00:57:34] KYLE: toneandcraft.ca. You don't wanna give your phone number?

[00:57:37] ROCKY: Tonecraft.ca. [00:57:40] Tonecraft. There's no & symbol in it, but- Oh ... yeah, yeah. You can look us up on Instagram too.

[00:57:42] There's some cool reels. The ladies- You know

[00:57:45] KYLE: the Instagram handle?

[00:57:46] ROCKY: Bull River

[00:57:48] KYLE: Tonecraft. Okay. And you're on there too? They're gonna see your [00:57:50] pretty face or no? No. Okay.

[00:57:51] ROCKY: Only here.

[00:57:52] KYLE: Okay. Only here. Uh-

[00:57:54] ROCKY: Or if they darken the door.

[00:57:56] KYLE: Okay. Guys, if you have any guest suggestions for the Furious Secure Show, [00:58:00] please reach out to me.

[00:58:00] I had someone do that recently and introduced me to someone that I'll have on soon, and it's just, uh, super helpful. I'd love, I'd love to do more of those interviews. Um, also Gary will be back next week. [00:58:10] If you have questions or topic ideas, send those in on my website, furioussecurest.co. Um, and if you need a job or if you're looking for good employees, reach [00:58:20] out.

[00:58:21] Yeah. Thanks for listening, and I'll catch you next week. Peace. Thanks Kyle. You bet. That's it. That's all. [00:58:30] That's pretty easy or what? It's a good chat. It's just like when there's no, no cameras going. I hope so.

[00:58:36] ROCKY: I don't know.

[00:58:38] KYLE: You didn't give me any vibes that you felt it [00:58:40] would be different than when we're talking downstairs.

[00:58:42] ROCKY: Oh, okay. That's good. I bet business will be booming now, eh? You might get a- I better get back to the mill ...

[00:58:49] KYLE: you might

[00:58:49] ROCKY: get a couple [00:58:50] calls. It's not gonna be out till Wednesday, [00:59:00] so-

‍

keep reading

What Do You Tell Your Kids About a Gay Family Member? - Briefcase & The Barn EP 103

July 8, 2026

Canada Is Building a Surveillance State | John Carpay - EP 56

July 4, 2026

Court-Ordered Sales, Your Secrets Exposed, & Should You Tithe? - Briefcase & The Barn EP 102

July 1, 2026

Stop Work From Controlling Your Life

Together, we’ll forge your path through the hard stuff to get to the good stuff.

book a call

A scenic view of a golf course with tall trees and mountains in the background.

Should Teenagers Skip High School and Start Working Instead? - Briefcase & The Barn EP 104

July 15, 2026

keep reading

What Do You Tell Your Kids About a Gay Family Member? - Briefcase & The Barn EP 103

Canada Is Building a Surveillance State | John Carpay - EP 56

Court-Ordered Sales, Your Secrets Exposed, & Should You Tithe? - Briefcase & The Barn EP 102

Stop Work From Controlling Your Life

Company

Resources

Opening Hours

Office

Contact us

Podcast Question

Should Teenagers Skip High School and Start Working Instead? - Briefcase & The Barn EP 104

July 15, 2026

Stay Updated With Our Latest Releases

keep reading

What Do You Tell Your Kids About a Gay Family Member? - Briefcase & The Barn EP 103

Canada Is Building a Surveillance State | John Carpay - EP 56

Court-Ordered Sales, Your Secrets Exposed, & Should You Tithe? - Briefcase & The Barn EP 102

Stop Work From Controlling Your Life

Company

Resources

Opening Hours

Office

Contact us

Podcast Question