December 17, 2021

Playing Pro Sports as a Christian - A conversation with NHL player David Booth - Season 2 Episode 7

Kyle: [00:00:00] Hey guys, uh, season two. Uh, I just had a conversation with David Booth, uh, former NHL Player. Um, super interesting conversation. I really enjoyed it. Hope you guys do as well. Uh, so he, I think he played in the NHL for around 10 years. Um, but as a Christian and, uh, so growing up that really, um. That wasn't, that would be an oxymoron, um, for me.

So, uh, asked a bunch of questions and, and, uh, it was really interesting. So I, I hope you enjoy it and, uh, calm it down below or, or, uh, shoot me a, a direct message to, uh, uh, let me know if you liked it or not.

Okay, David, thank you for doing this. Uh, I know I'll be bugging you for a while. Um, I think I finally cracked through your dms there. So, um, so I, I remember I used to follow hockey pretty closely, uh, when you were a member of the Vancouver Canucks. And I heard you were a Christian at the time and, and I wasn't a Christian at the time, uh, but I heard you were, and that you were giving, uh, books away, like from Timothy Keller to teammates and [00:01:00] stuff like that.

And, and, and, uh, and so when I became a Christian, I remember that. And, uh, I've always been, been really curious about your story. Um, and, uh, so that's why I, I'm very thankful to have you on the show. So maybe you could, uh, just start with a brief overview of your life and career.

David: Wow. Uh, well that's a great introduction.

I, um, did not know, uh, that, um, you know, you weren't a Christian. I, I like, like I said, I don't know much about you. Um, I don't really don't check my messages. Um, too often I try to stay off away, away from there. But, you know, you were persistent. And persistent pays off so. Um, I know, like you said, you've been trying to get ahold of me for a while and I should be doing more things like this.

I should be more active. Um, but man, I don't think I, I've posted on Instagram for a year or so, maybe even longer. So, um, with that being said, yeah, I guess the more important stuff. Yeah. I, I grew up in Detroit. Um, you know, I'm a, um. American there. Um, this [00:02:00] is my family, you know, I have three bro, two brothers, one sister.

Um, I don't know, this stuff's kind of the boring stuff I guess, but, uh, grew up playing honey baked, um, kind of was always a hockey player, but played. Tons of other sports. You know, I love, love being a, um, an athlete more than a hockey player, I guess. Um, still love golfing. I think Golfing's probably my favorite thing to do.

I played the most I ever played this year. Um, so, um, yeah, you know, hockey was just something that I never really anticipated anything coming of it. I just played it just 'cause my dad put me in it. And, you know, I wasn't one of those kids that says, man, when I grow up, I'm gonna play in the NHL. Is this.

Just kind of do it and, you know, each year just kinda let in the next year. And, um, I guess, you know, looking back, it's just crazy how, um, you know, God's, um, grand, you know, call him the grand weaver, how he just weaved his path, uh, into my life. Just, uh, it's, it's amazing.

Kyle: So how, how did you go from, so that, [00:03:00] that's kind of your story growing up.

Uh, you grew up in a Christian home, Christian parents.

David: I did. Yeah. I grew up in a Lutheran home. Um, okay. You know, more, and I, I, I would not call myself a Lutheran now. Um, more just non-denominational, but Okay. I'm understanding Martin Luther more now than I ever have, and I, I just think he's just, um, you know, if we, we, if we have a another kid, I want to maybe mix in the name Luther just because of how influential he was and just really what he did.

Um, it's just impressive. Um, so, but. I think I was more established, uh, the morals of Christianity, I guess, um, that was really big in my life, um, is just understanding the Bible and what the Bible has to say about humanity and our fallen nature. I think that is what really I. Stuck. Stuck with me. And then when I went to Michigan State, um, I had, I was involved with Athletes in Action.

One of [00:04:00] the teammates invited me to go. I didn't know what that was. And it was just a Christian group with, uh, for athletes. And I went and, um, meeting the head of it there. Uh, Phil, I still keep in touch with him. He's been out to Montana twice now. Just really had a big impact, impact on my development of, uh, understanding Christianity and, um, I guess who Jesus is.

Kyle: So you became a Christian at that time, or was that, when did you become a Christian?

David: Yeah, I would say to really understand like, um, you know, not just, uh, you know, I think we all kind of have an idea of God, you know, I think it's all in us. I mean, that's what Romans talks about. We all kind of have just this innate.

Sense in us that there is a God out there and, um, growing up in a Christian household or in a Lutheran household, um, you know, I think there just comes a time where, you know, you have to make a decision for yourself. You know, there's plenty of stories where people just are raised going to church every Sunday, you know, that's all they, that's all they know.

You know, they don't read their [00:05:00] Bible, they don't really get involved in, you know, they go to college and they go, I guess the. Opposite way, you know, the worldly what, what are your friends doing, what's your, you know, who's influencing you? But, um, you know, for me, I would say it was my freshman year of college, I went to a, um, a Christian camp in Colorado, like an athletes in action outreach camp.

And it was just in the summer, uh, something I was able to do. And I guess just being around other believers, there's like a hundred believers there. Um. It really wasn't just a turning point in my life that whole year, the whole freshman year, just kind of finally like really reading the Bible. I don't think I really read the Bible much, but, uh, Phil, you know, encouraged me to read the Bible and understand, um, yeah, understand what Christianity is really about.

'cause I think so many people have their own idea and they don't really understand what it's about. So, um, you know, e ever since then I've been really cu curious, I guess, as you would say, uh, of what Christianity is about. [00:06:00]

Kyle: So I, I guess like, maybe I missed something, but was, so when was the actual moment?

Like, did you, did you, was there something that you realized you, you were sinner and that you put your faith in Christ? Was there a text? Was it more a gradual thing? You don't know exactly the time that you became a Christian or what, what

David: Yeah, I mean, you know, there, there is times exactly that you can look back to and point to and say, Hey, this is when I, you know, they just call it.

Saying, being born again, you know, um, being born again. I, I would just say it was a, a time, uh, at that camp we did a, a 24 hour, it was all athletes there and we did 24 hours of competition, just different, you know, ultimate Frisbee, swimming, um, uh, just, uh, running, uh, there's this whole, a whole bunch of activities for 24 hours and they wanted you to get to a point of pure exhaustion.

And the last. Activity was just you running, um, I mean, we're in the mountains, 10,000 feet running [00:07:00] a mile or two up a hill carrying just a wood beam on your back. Um, you know, and, and you get there and after 24 hours, I mean, you're, you're done. Uh, you're. Completely wiped out. And then they just kind of really just explained, I guess, what Christ went through for us, how much he loved us, you know, and his fatigue, his pain and suffering that he went through for us.

And, you know, um, I don't, I won't get into the philosophical reasons right now, but that just really made me understand how much he loved me. And so I would say, yeah, I was, uh, at that camp that I was like, yeah, this is something that I, I need to stake my life on.

Kyle: Interesting. And so, and, and a couple times already you've mentioned, I, I've mentioned Christianity growing up a Christian home, and you corrected me by saying Lutheran.

What, like what is the difference for you in between those?

David: Yeah, I mean, um, I, I would just say, you know, people can say you're a Catholic, uh, Lutheran, um, and that's more just a set of beliefs within, [00:08:00] um, Christianity that. You know, I, I think, uh, being a Christian is different, um, than calling, you know, some people say, Hey, I'm, I'm a Catholic, or I'm, I'm a Lutheran.

And you know, it, it is tough to see, I guess the fruit fruit of being a C Christian in your life following Christ, you know, and following Jesus and what he commands. Um, you know, 'cause there's certain, there's certain things, you know, I grew up with that. Aren't in the Bible that, you know, or, um, you know, when we would go to a, a Catholic church, you know, they pray, pray to Mary or, or, or someone.

And that's not really in the Bible. That's more of the way that, um, that, um, denomination has approached, um, Christ. But Christianity I think is just more reading the Bible, understanding the Bible, understanding who Jesus is. And just, um, having a personal relationship with Jesus, not with, [00:09:00] uh, you know, it's not the prayers you say.

Yeah. You're not saved through communion. You're not saved through baptism. I think, you know, some of these, um, you know, denominations believe those things and the Bible doesn't teach that. Um, you know, so I, I think it's just more of understanding what the Bible says. It's

Kyle: interesting you say that. I remember I was in, uh, Jerusalem a couple years ago for work.

And so all those famous sites where, um, of like the Mount of Olives and all those things like that, everyone is like praying and singing and touching the ground there and, and trying to get closer to God through those things. And it reminded me of the golden calfs, uh, in the wilderness where. Um, they weren't worshiping the golden calves.

They were trying to worship God through the golden calves. And it was kind of that same thing, but it's, you see that popping up, um, just in different forms all throughout Christianity. 'cause I guess it's just human nature. But that's interesting. Um, I, I, so I guess my big question is like. Um, it almost feels like, especially growing up how I grew up, that it's an oxymoron, [00:10:00] um, growing, being a Christian and playing in the NHL because their, the values just seemed so different, but it's so man-centered, it seems like in the NHL and, and or professional hockey.

And, and so how did you, how did you approach that? What, what was that like?

David: Yeah, I mean, I think, um, it is, you know, the NHL is something that you're right, just seems like, um, very worldly, uh, uh, something that there's no. There's no place for loving your neighbor in the, in the NHL or, you know, um, turning the other cheek in the NHL.

It's, you know, for yourself. But in, in reality. I mean, there's, it's like that in every job. I think every job has a bit of the world in it. And you know, I think the NHL is just magnified or it's just put on you. You can see it easier, uh, because there is. Competition, but I mean, just in any job, you know, there's competition with any, any job that people have.

So, [00:11:00] um, I, I just think the athletics in general can magnify certain aspects of, uh, our human nature. Um, so, you know that NHL gives you more temptations, I think, than maybe just the normal job too. You know, you're, you're around, um, so many. Luxuries and, um, opportunities that really don't exist for other people.

So that is one part of the NHL that, um, is a bit alarming. Um, yeah, if you're not really ready for it. Yeah.

Kyle: So when, when you had, I'm assuming you had fans that, that. Idolized you, if you can use that word, that were your jerseys that wanted your autographs and, and just you were their hero as a Christian.

Did that make you uncomfortable? Did you feel like, I'm worried that, that this young kid is, is I'm way more important to them and I know that God should be like, how did you have those feelings at the time? I know previous to your, uh, your concussion in 2009, a lot changed after that. But, um, how did, how did you navigate those kind of things?

David: [00:12:00] Yeah, I guess that those thoughts like about being idolized never really crossed my mind. Um, when I was playing, you know, I just, when I. Started in Florida. Like, I, I really didn't think anything changed. I, I, I never really thought like, man, I, I made it, you know, I, I, this is the best. I kind of was just naive to it.

And I think later on in my career I really started to realize like, oh my gosh, yeah, people are crazy about this game. You know, more when I got to Vancouver, just because that is so central to the culture in Canada. Um, I don't think it really crossed my mind of like being ashamed. I mean, the thing is in life.

We all idolize something, we all are gonna worship something in life. And I can't, um, you know, you know, it's not something I always say, oh man, I don't wanna play hockey because I might, someone might look up to you. Or, you know, um, that, that, those, I guess those [00:13:00] thoughts didn't cross my mind, but it, it is just, yeah, we gotta be careful, um, you know, to, we still have to.

Work at our job with all our might, whatever that job might be. Work at it with all of our heart. Yeah. Uh, you know, and, but not be part of the world. You know, try to continue to have that very fine balance of being in the world, but not being a part of the world. Um, yeah. So. I don't know if that really makes sense, that,

Kyle: that, that, that that's answer.

Yeah. So I mean, did, did you get flack from coaches or teammates ever for the beliefs you had? Did you, um, like, um, I mean, the average guy, I'm assuming there didn't care much about God, and, and it was important for you. How, how did that have some stories on that or how did that go?

David: Sure. I, I think one of the most, you know, from Vancouver, one of the things that stuck with me the most, or stuck with my career the most was, um, when I was playing for Tortorella, um, he just said, oh yeah, he's the weird dude.

You know, and that kinda [00:14:00] just stuck. And, and I think he, uh, he meant it in, um, you know, who knows what he, what he meant. But the way I take it, you know, it is just, it was just different. You know, there's something different. Um. You're weird because you're different. You don't necessarily do the things that everyone else does.

You know, I think he knew that I wasn't, um, the one leading the night scene or the one going out, um, going to strip clubs like, oh man, you're in the NHL, you know, girls are all over you. Why aren't you taking advantage of that? That's weird. You know, or Yeah, and you're not going out, uh, to, to the Roxy, you know?

Yes, I've been to the Roxy, but I'm just saying it wasn't a habit of mine. It wasn't a habit to be going. Every night to these clubs. Uh, you know, it was just something that. Was weird for, you know, someone in their late twenties who had everything for them to actually try to live by a, a standard or try to live by a, a, [00:15:00] um, conviction that they had in life.

And yes, that's what's beautiful about, about the Bible is we're all fallen. Yes, I messed up, but. It was something that I had convictions in my life and I wanted to live up to those. So, you know, whether it was working hard, I think that was one thing that I really wanted to, I never wanted to look back on my career and say, man, I didn't work hard.

I didn't waste a gift. So yeah, maybe I worked out a little too much or just did something that, uh, that I shouldn't have. So I think that is kinda one thing, um, that there, I remember, um, you know, when I was in Florida, just. Um, a, a really good friend of mine, um, at the time, you know, he was really involved and, you know, he says, Hey, you know, someone, um, from LA called and asked me about you, you know, they wanted to trade for you.

And they're like, Hey, I, I heard he is a Christian. Like, how does, like, is he really a Christian? Like, how is he in the locker room? Like, does he really believe these things? [00:16:00] He was like, no. Yeah, he really does. Like, you know, he's, um, you know, he has his faith and he lives up to that. He tries to, and um, you know, he is not gonna be one of the guys that's leading the charge of going out or staying out late and.

They said, ah, okay, well that's not for us then. You know, we kind of want a close knit team. And obviously they think that being a Christian, you're not gonna fit in with guys, and that's not the case at all. I mean, I, I, you know, still have many great friends from the NHL and respect people from all points of view.

Um, you know, so. Uh, it's just funny how there's kind of a double standard there, but Yeah. Um, and then just one other time, I think just a freshman in college, um, you know, I was 17 years old in college and, uh. Like my very first party going to, or, you know, meeting the guys, you know, it was a Friday night or Saturday night and one of the older guys like, wanted to fight me because I wouldn't drink, you know, I was 17 years old [00:17:00] in college and I'm like, you know, I'm not gonna drink tonight.

Like, I'm not a, I'm not a big drinker. I never was a, you know, I'm not a uh, um, really. Didn't have a desire for it. I, I thought it was wrong and Yeah. You know, I wasn't telling him not to drink. I just said, Hey, I don't, and like one guy kind of wanted to fight me. I was like, that's, that's, uh, not what I anticipated.

Kyle: Yeah, yeah,

David: yeah. Just little stories like that through the times that, you know, it. Um, yeah, it happens.

Kyle: Yeah. Um, so like, I mean, the culture is constantly changing and there's more and more pressure to, to the line, I guess, to what culture is, is promoting. So do you think, uh, in, in 2021, uh, if you were, uh, an angel hockey player, you can be public about, um, the Bible's beliefs on marriage or sexuality or, or those kind of things, or do you think if you were public about that now you wouldn't have a spot on a team?

David: Well, um, that's a very good question. I, I mean, I don't know, like, I think, [00:18:00] I think if you do like, kind of stand up to what the culture says, you're gonna be looked down. Looked down on, on, um. You know, and, and, uh, it's, it's happening. I mean, people that actually live by a conviction, if they say those convictions, they, they are, they, they can lose a job or you can get traded or, um, you know, it's tough.

I mean, yeah, like, you know, it'd be very tough to come out and say, you know, anything against, you know, having a whole, a whole month for pride month in the NHL. Like, if you say that, you know, you're, you're, you're gonna be criticized, you're. It's not gonna be welcome, you know? Yeah. Even though it's not like you're saying, Hey, I hate That's right.

Hate those people. It's just saying, Hey, I, I, like you said, I just have a, um, a, a conviction in my life, a standard in my life that I believe this is what I believe that a marriage is between a man and a woman. And, and if you say that, that is gonna raise red [00:19:00] flags everywhere. But you know, I mean, tho those.

Uh, why I believe that is because they were put there for a purpose. I mean, you know, the, the, the NHL just with the, the vaccine, like they're, they're saying, oh, it's for your safety, you know, for your safety. And I mean, the NHL players are gonna recover from COVID.

There's no one that's really at danger from this. And the healthiest people in our population, yeah, they're gonna survive. They're not gonna look back 10, 10 years from now and say, oh man, remember that time I, you know, couldn't smell my food. You know, that's not a big deal yet. They're forcing, they're forcing that in your body.

Kyle: Yeah. But now, but, but you, but you would say that's different then. The Bible doesn't speak about if you are should or not in a vaccine or not a vaccine. For me, that's a smaller issue than

David: I, but I bring up that point because what I, what I'm trying to say is that if you [00:20:00] go 10 years from now and you have the NHL promoting pride month or L-G-B-T-Q agenda within the whole league.

That that lifestyle will cause harm on certain people. Just recently, Kyle Beach has come out and just, this is 10 years ago this happened, and he's still thinking about the trauma he had, if they were, if the NHL was really worried about the safety of this players. They wouldn't be promoting this stuff because that could happen again.

That could happen again. And that has devastated him. I mean that and who's to say that's not gonna happen if they keep pushing, you know? Oh well, like United Airlines is trying to. Hire pilots that associate one way or another instead of just flying the plane to safety. You know, it's, it's not about safety anymore.

So if you were to come out and say that you, you know, people look at you like you had two heads, but that's just the reality of life. Yeah. You know, [00:21:00] that's just the reality of life and it needs, you know, people need to stand the ground on that stuff and you know, it, it's not like saying, Hey, uh, you know, my wife.

And a and me, some of her best friends, you know, are gay. They're, they, she, she's worked in the modeling industry. She's had

Kyle: so many friends come. I think that's a, I think that's a really key key point you bring up there that, that you can hold the Bible's beliefs and love. And have these people over for dinner.

I mean, that, that's what Jesus did, right? And I think that's a, a a a and, uh, actually, uh, I wanna have an LG BT Q activist on my show because, uh, I, I want bring that up and talk about that and understand them more and be like, why, why do you call me a hate group when I just hold to, this is how I believe it should be.

But that doesn't mean I can't treat you. Super respectfully as a person and, and I mean, give you all the same human rights. I mean, you're not less human. Um, so when I Exactly. Yeah. So that's,

David: that, that's a very, [00:22:00] very great point. And it's such a, a touchy subject and it doesn't need to be, I mean, there's certain lifestyles like that you don't agree with.

Um. But that doesn't mean you hate the person. You just don't agree with it, and you just don't, um, want to associate with that. Or that's not who, you know who you are, but you still love them. And, and that's the thing, like you said, Jesus was hardest on the, on the Pharisees, the religious leaders because they were Sure.

Be very judge, um, judgmental. They wouldn't judge it the right way, you know? That's right. We we're, we're called. You know, we're not, we're, we're not called that We can't judge, we're not told that we can't judge. We just have to use the right judgment. That's right. And so, um, you know, have the right, have the right heart.

Exactly. It's a touchy subject. And, and by no means is it something that, you know, a true Christian doesn't hate the LGB community. They don't. That's right. They actually embrace em. They, if you love them, you will actually talk to them and have conversations and [00:23:00] invest in their life. That doesn't love does not mean acceptance.

And I think we've, we've lost that.

Kyle: That's right. Yeah. Um, earlier in the conversation, I, I mentioned that, yeah. I heard you were giving out books to your teammates from Timothy Keller and things like that. Is that true? Do, do, do you remember like, were you trying to evangelize your teammates, um, while you were playing professional?

I remember.

David: I mean, I remember in Florida giving out Bibles to the team. Um, uh, there's a teen ranch in, um, Ontario there, teen Ranch. They helped me, um, secure Bibles. They put everyone's name on it. Um, so we did that in Florida, I think it was my first or second year, which was really cool. They helped me do that.

How was that received

Kyle: to like, do your teammates be like, what? Like, what's going on David? Like

David: Yeah. No, to say thank you. You know, they, they, they, I, I, no one really had any like. Say, I don't know if anyone still has 'em or not, but, um, that was in Florida. That was, I think it was my first year, like, uh, 20 games in.

I was like, Hey, I just wanna give you guys a Bible. So that was cool. [00:24:00] Um, Tim Keller is probably my favorite author speaker right now. Um, he is, I think, just one of the most enlightened. Preachers and who can address these tough issues and do it in a loving and winsome way. Um, so yeah, I, I've mentioned Tim Keller to teammates, um, you know, one of the greatest books, you know, people, his Reason for God, um, reason for God.

And, uh, just finished making sense with making sense of God. People that just, man, why do I need God? Or who is God? Or, you know, um, the, what worldview makes the most sense, you know? The, these books just really make Christianity. Believable and

Kyle: yeah,

David: debunk a lot of myths out there. So making sense of God, uh, a reason for God.

And, um, I'm, uh, reading, walking through Pain and Suffering right now through, um, Tim Keller. And he's just, uh, just incredible [00:25:00] And I think any thinking mind would read him and say. He makes a great case. Um, he makes a great case. And, and

Kyle: do and do those books like convince people that God is real and Christianity is real, or do they also push, push further than that and say, um, just believing that God is real and Christianity is real isn't what makes you a Christian.

It's repenting from your sins and believing in Jesus does, does he go there as well? Because I find like a lot in mainstream culture nowadays, I find a lot of Christians trying to convince people that God is real. And it just kind of stopped there and it doesn't. Sure. Yeah.

David: That's a great point. You know, and, and James, I believe it's James, uh, you know, you, you believe in God good.

Even the devils, even the, the demons believe in God. You know, they know he's real, but there's a difference between knowing something and putting your faith in something. And, um, you know, there he does make that point. If you listen to any of his, um, talks, he always brings his talks. To the cross [00:26:00] because the cross is where you are changed.

Kyle: Yeah.

David: And well, he can give you every ev he can give you every single argument in the book for Christianity, but God gave us our free will to decide what, how, you know, how we want to live. If, if he didn't give us that free will, we, there's no way we could reach out in, in a loving way towards him. But, um, you know, we're, we're born certain ways.

That's why Jesus calls us to be born again. We need to be born again, um, into Christianity. It's not something that, um, you know, the head can believe it, but the heart has to commit to it, to Yeah. Uh, make it real. 'cause there's a ton of things you can believe in, but never really put your life in. Um, and, and that's a, that's what's so amazing about Jesus.

He didn't, you know, he wasn't every other religion, you know, the. The main person said, Hey, I am. I'm here to show you the way. Follow me. Do what I say. This is how you do it. Jesus is the only person that says, [00:27:00] I am the way I, I am. Like, this is it. You know, I'm not here to be your. Counselor, I'm not here to be your guru.

I'm here to be your savior. Yeah. And that's what we need A savior. I

Kyle: actually heard that David Platt, he, I think he was on a missionary trip somewhere and he was talking to a Muslim and a, and uh, a Hindu, and they were all saying that, um, c um, religion is like a big mountain and God's on the top and there's just different paths to get there, and there's a Christian path and a Hindu path and this path.

And he said, he replied, he goes, no. Well, you guys all have to walk your own path and Christianity, God walks the path for you. Absolutely. It's, it is, it's all already done. It's finished you. And, uh, I thought that was a really, really nice, nice point. Um, Martin Luther, uh, Timothy Keller, uh, who else, what are some of your other favorite, uh, writers that you like?

David: Yeah, uh, Frank Turk. I think Frank Turk. Um, he's, what I love about him is he does get, uh, he brings the Bible into your everyday life. He kind of makes how to [00:28:00] navigate. Political issues. Um, because I think that's one thing that church lost is, uh, just let's not be, you know, worldly, let's, um, not have a seat in discussion.

You know, that's why we've become so secular secularized, um, recently. It's just because we've lost any say in anything. You know, Christians have kind of taken a step back and, and kind of been, um, haven't been confident in their faith and, um, he is so. Smart again, when it comes to just, Hey, how do you navigate these things?

Like, you know, who do you vote for? Like, how, how do you vote as a Christian? Um, yeah. You know, and he helps you navigate tough issues that many, you know, many preachers won't, uh, do at the pulpit, you know? Yeah. They, they, they, they really won't do that. But he's very good at, um, explaining. You know, certain policies, what policies mean?

What, what are you voting on? Um, how does that affect [00:29:00] our everyday lives? You know? 'cause if Christians remain silent, we will get, you know, you'll lose everything that is so great about the United States, about Canada. Freedom to worship. I mean, you know, you just saw like how bad it was the pastor in Canada going.

To jail for just preaching, and that's very close to how it's, it would be if you don't Yeah, my, my dad's a

Kyle: pastor and he was getting a $1,800 fine every service,

David: which is incredible. Yeah. I mean, that's, if, if Christians don't stand up and, you know, do something about it, we'll just. It's disaster, you know?

Yes. And God gave us our, our minds to use and, and a, a not a spirit of fear, but of power. You know, the Bible, one of the main things of the Bible is power. And so we have to be confident in those arenas, in the public square. Um, and do it in a loving way. Do it in a convincing way. Yeah. Um, showing that, you know, we have basis for what, why we believe what we believe.

Kyle: Yeah. Yeah. I, I think it's really important. [00:30:00] I, I guess I, I've, I've been working through this myself, and I, I want the preaching to be on Sunday morning just to be the Bible. But I think outside of that, I mean, our leader should be teaching us how to navigate the world we live in, and I think that yeah.

That, that piece is, that piece is fallen off.

David: Yeah. If you, if you have his, his, his podcast cross-examine, I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. That's one of his books. I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. Okay. Yeah. It's good statement. His podcast, so, so well, his podcast, that's one I listen to every week.

He does one every week. Tim Keller does one like every two days. So I listen to those, um, all the time. Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle: Did you have any, um, ev evangelization, uh, stories in the NHL where it was, I don't, I don't wanna use the word successful, but where you actually were able to, um, lead someone to Christ or, or, or, uh, get someone to think differently about things that, and they weren't before?

David: Yeah. You know what? That, that's something that's hard. I, I think to [00:31:00] do, you know, you wanna, how to navigate that, it takes wisdom and wisdom's very hard to come by. I mean, how do you navigate those, um, scenarios in life that, you know, how do you fit in with the guys without like, just being so, uh, I want to say just, uh, confrontational, like, hey.

Are you reading your Bible? Are you praying? Yeah. Are you furniture? You know, it's, it can be a little standoffish and, and how to read guys how to read their, when they, um, things when they're hurting. Yeah. Or, or, yeah. When they're hurting. When you have to step in and, uh, just show 'em that you care or you know, when they're just, Hey.

Uh, life is, life is good. You know, I'm playing in the NHL. Everything's good. I have a great life. I don't need, uh, I don't feel like I need Christianity now, but the thing is like that.

Kyle: But Did you have a guy that did you, like, in your career, did you have a guy that, that you were, that you, um, [00:32:00] invested in and that actually became a Christian, uh, because of what you were, the information you were giving him or, or anything like that?

David: Yeah, so I'll just say, um, one guy I played with, um. In Florida, Noah Welch, you know, he was a Catholic, you know, very, um, religious in that sense. I, I don't know if like, Hey, I gotta do good, so God blesses me kind of thing. Like, God's only gonna bless me if I do good.

Kyle: Yeah.

David: Something along those lines. We started going to Calvary Chapel, uh, in Florida together.

Um, then we had a bible study. We were roommates, we had a Bible study together, and now he is like, he's a. He's leading Pat, you know, doing church services, preaching. Uh, he's told me he's preached 10 Sundays so far. Um, which is just really cool. Now I ask him for, you know, advice. Advice. Nice.

Kyle: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That's awesome. Incredible.

David: Um, so, you know, just a story like that, just, uh, seeing that was just awesome. There's other guys that, uh, you know, I still talk to, um, that, [00:33:00] you know, will, um, reach out and, you know, they kind of. I think the seed was planted. You know, 'cause they'll just, Hey, this, this sermon, I really like this sermon or something.

You know? It's just really good to hear, you know, years later that they still are thinking, you know, they're still, their mind's still going. Yeah. They

Kyle: remember you. Yeah. I think, I think that's a good point for a lot of Christians is that you might not see any fruit of what you're saying now, but you might five or 10 years down the road or maybe after you're dead, they're gonna think about it and, and go to someone else for it.

So.

David: Sure.

Kyle: Um, how, how do you view the fourth commandment? So the fourth commander must keep the Sabbath they holy and, and not working on Sunday. And of course, uh, a lot of NHL games were on Sunday and stuff like that. How did, how did you process that? How do you think through that?

David: Yeah, I mean, uh, I think that's great.

I think that commandment might be the only one. That is abolished through Jesus, uh, coming. 'cause he said he is the Sabbath. Um, so that one, uh, I'm not saying that, that you shouldn't have a Sabbath. I think every day, every week [00:34:00] you need a day off. You need a break. Um, you need to take time away to refresh.

But Jesus came to be the Sabbath for us. You know, back then it was more of a, of a, um. Guideline. You know, like Jesus was the first one that actually did work on the Sabbath. Right? And the Pharisees wanted to kill him because of it. So he, he, you know, he broke that command, uh, to, to do good. He did good on the Sabbath.

So our bodies were designed to have a day of rest. Um, you know, and I think we need to take that. We need to reflect, we need to just pause and understand, um, you know, God's. Calling in our life refresh, um, uh, a day a week. I mean, we need to do it every day, but there's just a time where I think, uh, as a Christian, you set aside a day to really just connect, uh, because you need it.

I mean, you need it throughout the week. You need it every [00:35:00] day. Yeah. Um, so that was something that, yeah, I think, um, was, you know, was nice knowing that we actually have someone that. Did the Sabbath for us.

Kyle: Yeah. Okay. Um, I think, I think back in 2017, uh, correct me if I got my facts right here, but you were flying to Anaheim for, I think, training camp, and you, you're a pilot, so you had some issues, um, I think your plane, um, shut off or froze up and stuff like that.

Uh, tell me about that story and, and how, uh, being a person, a Christian, um, how you navigate through that differently than someone else might.

David: Yeah, yeah, I was, I was going down to Anaheim for training camp. Lost my engine over the Sierra Nevada mountains. It was, I was like at 20,000 feet and I was just trying to climb above the clouds.

Um, and yeah, my engine quit on me. I was in the clouds, couldn't see anything, just my engine went off. So, you know, you have to start thinking right away. Um, got the plane configured just to [00:36:00] glide. You have to glide at 90 miles an hour, uh, 90 knots. Um, and then it was about couple minutes before I declared an emergency to the control, um, to the FAA.

Then I had like, man, I had. Delta. I remember a Delta pilot coming on United. Hey, good luck. Good luck. You know, it was, it was scary. Nice. That's really helpful. Like good luck, man. I know it's nuts. But I remember having service for a second. I was just texting my wife. I was like. Pray for me. You know, that's all he said.

Just pray for me. And I remember trying to decide if I was gonna go to Winnemac, to to land, which is like 60 miles away, or, uh, I don't remember the other name. It was just an identifier. Um. And I go, I'll just go to the short one. Uh, um, you know, it has no fuel, but I just wanna get on the ground. I'll figure out everything later.

Yeah. And from 20,000 to 15,000 feet, 14,000 feet, I didn't have, uh, an engine. And then sure enough, it just [00:37:00] kicked on at 14,000. Um, you know, I, I don't, I really don't remember much. Just like after I got the plane configured and I was out and I could see. Everything I, I, a sense of calm came over me, um, which was really weird.

You know, you don't hear anything. It's just kind of quiet. Um, you know, and you're just like, oh, you're just kind of glad. I mean, you still have 10 minutes before you're going to get down to the ground. But yeah, I was kind of, kind of calm. I wasn't like, I think the. Adrenaline would've set in when you're a thousand feet above the ground.

Like now what you know? Yeah. Um, yeah. When I was in the clouds, I was a lot, it was a lot scarier 'cause you didn't know where you were, you didn't know what way you playing was face, you know, obviously they teach you how to navigate through that. But I'm saying once you see, okay, you're, you're, you're, you know, a little bit calm.

But yeah, I mean, those are just the times where you just say prayers, you know? I, I mean, there's no doubt during my flying career. Man, I [00:38:00] pray more than ever. You know, it's, it is something that just really brings you closer to God. I mean, you really like. Put your soul into your prayers when you're up there.

'cause there's times you're going through thunderstorms and, um, you know, trying to navigate around them, or you're coming into the clouds or you don't, you know, airport lights don't come on. I mean, there's just things that just kinda can be really

Kyle: scary. I mean, yeah, I mean, I even have it as a passenger. I kind of feel like a pansy saying this, but I, I fly quite a bit for my work and.

Whenever the turbulence is bad, it's, I always feel guilty. 'cause I'm like, that's when I start praying and I, and I think to myself, like, God's probably thinking like, oh, now you're gonna start praying. Like as soon as it gets, as soon as it gets bumpy, you know? And, and then I feel, then I feel ashamed so that I'm like, oh, maybe I shouldn't pray then.

And, but yeah, I, I can, I can see that it makes sense. Yeah. Um, so I, I know a lot of young, younger, and older people, um, that are consumed by hockey and, and follow every last stat and player and, and don't really care about Christianity. And I, I'm, I just, um, wanna give you an opportunity to speak to those people.

Like what, what, what would you say [00:39:00] to them?

David: Yeah. Um, that's a great point. Um, it's funny because what you just said, you know, like, oh, you started to pray more when things were going bad, you know, and I think. That is a very relatable way that God can bring someone to Christianity. I think, I think our culture right now is probably the, it is the worst.

Tim Keller says it's the worst in history at providing people like a meaning for their life. Like people don't know what their meaning of life is. We, we don't know how to provide people answers when they suffer. Like if, if, if all of our meaning comes. From me determining what I need to do, like me determining my life or me determining my what I do and who I am.

If that just comes from within, that any part of suffering or any pain is seen as, get this outta here. I do not want to deal with this. I want to.[00:40:00]

Get rid of this. This does not make sense. This has no place in my life. And so people become, you know, lost, uh, lost for meaning, a loss for purpose. Um, I think at Passion Conference, uh, Louis Giglio does this, uh, conference, there's like 60,000 students, uh, just in Atlanta, and then like 40,000 in. Texas in, uh, Houston.

Yeah. You know, there's a hundred thousand college students and they ask, um, you know, they pull the, Hey, what is something that you guys would really like, help with? You know? And the first one is addiction to porn. The second one is, how do I not kill myself? I mean, that's a second, second biggest question.

How do you not kill yourself as a. You know, as a college student, I mean, you have everything in life, like our culture gives, HA has given you the most any other culture has in the history of the world. And we're not happy, we're not satisfied. And that just comes from not [00:41:00] really understanding meaning in life or having a purpose for life.

And we can search for so many things that will promise happiness, but they always fail. Um. There's, uh, Tim, Tim ler always talks about this, um. David, David Foster Wallace. He was a secular, um, thinker, uh, very well respected, well known, um, you know, not a believer, but he, he makes this quote. Um, and I, I have it here somewhere.

It's just something that I've, I, I always read because it's just so brilliant because this guy is, I think this guy, I think David Foal actually committed suicide. Um, but he was giving a lecture at a college and he said. Everyday life in the tr in the trenches of adult life. There's no such thing as atheism.

And this guy is an atheist and he goes, but in [00:42:00] reality he goes in the day-to-day trenches of life, there's no such thing as. As atheism, there's no such thing as not worshiping. Everybody worships. The only choice we get is what to worship, you know? And the, the compelling reason for choosing a spiritual type of worship is anything else will eat you alive.

He goes, if you worship money and things, if they're where you tap your real meaning in life. Then you'll feel like you would never have enough that you will, you know that nothing's gonna be enough. It's the truth. Or if you worship your body and beauty and sexual allure, you will always feel ugly. And when time and age starts showing, you will die a million deaths before they finally grieve you.

And, and what he's just point pointing out is that every, anything other than Christianity, anything other than Christ is going to eat you alive and you know. [00:43:00] It's true that Jesus Christ is the only thing that if you give your life to, will not destroy you. And I really believe that if you give your life to anything pursuing a career, well, what happens when the career's over?

What happens when the NH l's over, you know, and now you don't have, where, where's your purpose now? Where's your meaning in life now? Um, in, in any job really. Um, you know what happens when. This can be great to succeed, but what happens when you fail? Yeah. You know, there's just so much pressure on you to perform every day.

Christianity takes that away, has had someone that's done the work for you. Um, and that's the beauty, you know, that's just the beauty of who Jesus was. He, he came, he didn't need to suffer. He could have called down angels like that. It's the only religion that has its founder. Coming and actually suffering for you so you don't have to,

Kyle: for

David: people that didn't want him, what's that

Kyle: for?

People that didn't even want him, [00:44:00]

David: for people that didn't even want him, that, I mean, that is love and, and when we're going through something. We have a God that actually went through the most horrific suffering and torture because he loves us, because he wants us so he can actually sympathize with us. He doesn't say, Hey, just, you know, what Buddhism is, just says, Hey, you're an illusion right now.

You know? No, this pain is real. It's the only worldview that makes sense. So,

Kyle: yeah. Um,

David: you know, it's just, it's just amazing just how. Well, the Bible's written and how it has stood the test of time. Yeah, there's not, there's no one's ever figured out. The word Jesus should have said, you know, it's just stayed true throughout all history.

It's just amazing. It really is. Yeah, it

Kyle: reminds me of, uh, thank you for that, by the way, but it, it, it reminds me of Jim Elliot, uh, and it's a quote that I have be behind me here. You can't see it on the screen, but, uh, he was a missionary that died at 21 and on the [00:45:00] beaches of a, of a remote island where the, the native people that killed him.

But he said before he went, um, he is, he is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. I didn't know that was

David: him. That's a great quote. I I know that one. Well, I didn't know that was Jim Elliot. Yeah.

Kyle: Yeah. And, and it's, I just think it's, I have to remind myself of that constantly because it is tempting, especially in our culture where there's so much affluence, um, to, to run after that, so.

David: Sure.

Kyle: Uh, I, I got some quotes here, um, from an article that you wrote on Gospel in life. I, I'm gonna read them, um, for the audience and I'm gonna ask you to elaborate about on 'em a bit. So this is you saying, I was trying to earn favor. I was using God to get stuff I really wanted success in hockey, success in life.

That's why I liked versus stories I mentioned earlier. I was using them as a means to an end for myself, actualization. Not realizing at the time they're all about Jesus. I was using God to give my ultimate God hockey. I believe that if I had a good career in hockey, I'd be happy in life. [00:46:00] My happiness was found in something I would achieve rather than what Christ had achieved for me.

So I know you kind of touched on a few things on this already, but I thought that was a, a powerful statement. Uh, maybe you can just, um, talk about that a bit more.

David: Yeah. Like, and that's why you, you, you mentioned that earlier in the podcast, just how, oh, you, you say Christianity versus religion and religion is something that you do, right?

It's something that you do to gain favor. Uh, it's something that, Hey, I'm being good. So God needs to bless me. And I think that's how a lot of people actually approach Christianity. I think a lot of people in the NHL, you know, if they're, you know, the, the, the verses are always, I can do all things through Christ who strengthen me, or, you know, I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord.

Like, and they use that kind of a way to say like, Hey, I, I, you know, God's for me. He's gonna, he's gonna bless me, you know, if I do everything right. And that's not what Christianity is, you know? Um. Christianity is, is a [00:47:00] person who did everything right. Jesus, he did everything right. There was no sin found in him.

And what happened to him? He was crushed. You know, he was crushed for, for us. And so when things, and, and that's why religion can be, um. It can really devastate people because, hey, if I've lived this good life, why am I suffering now? You know, that's what the kind of religion says, but the gospel really clarifies those things.

And you know, I was guilty of that. Like I said, man, like maybe I wasn't drinking because oh, I wanna be good. I want God to bless me. You know? And, and you're, you're using God to get your ultimate God. Yeah. You know what, what is the thing that you're actually after? That's who your God is in your life. When I came to that realization, it's like, man, that, that's really convicting.

And, but when you come at God just to get him, your life changes. You know, it, it, your beauty opens up and your life has changed. So

Kyle: yeah. Then you, I mean, James [00:48:00] says, uh, in the book of James Faith, thought Works is dead. And I think that's. Uh, after you become a Christian, uh, because then you want, you want to follow him.

I, I, I, I love the example of I don't hold the door open for my wife because I have to. I do it because I already love her, and I think a lot of people try to hold the door open for God, so to speak, to try to earn his favor. God says, no, I don't want your acts, I want your heart. And, uh,

David: absolutely. That's great.

Yeah, that's great. Yeah.

Kyle: I got one more quote for you here that I, that, that's at the end of that article. Um, this is, this is you speaking. Jesus had beaten in my, and Jesus had beaten in my life as a kid, a college student, and as a professional athlete. However, I'm not sure I could say he was my shepherd.

I realize now more than ever that the gospel needs to be preached daily to myself without a life loses its meaning and purpose. I need the shepherd every day of my life. When you see and understand the beauty of the gospel, the only response is a changed life. Um, I I, I thought that was just a, I mean, it's kind of self-explanatory what [00:49:00] you said there, but, um.

Preaching the gospel to yourself every day. What, what does that look like in your life today? Like, how did you do that today? Maybe you didn't do it today, and you should have, but

David: No, no. Yeah, I, um, I listened to Tim Keller today on wisdom. Like, how, how do get wisdom in life and how to, how to know, like, you know, sometimes we go through the proverbs and, and you know, we say, okay, well if I do this.

This will happen. And for the most part that that's true. But there are times where it doesn't work. And that's why when you look at the Bible as a whole, you can't just, people cherry pick verses, right. And they don't understand the Bible as a whole, the whole Bible, even the proverb points to Jesus, the whole Bible points to Jesus that the truth of the Bible just outlives, its pallbearers, you know?

And that's just what's so exciting. Like they use the Bible. To like, discover [00:50:00] artifacts, ancient artifacts. Like, hey, let's, they didn't think this, uh, a group of, it might have been the Hittite, uh, no. Or Uriah. Um, so Bathsheba's husband, Uriah was a Hittite, I think. And for centuries they said, oh, the, the Bible can't be.

Reliable because they said there's Hittites and we've never found anything. And sure enough, just like in the eighties, 1980s, they found the whole colony of the Hittites. And it's like the Bible continues to point to the history of the reliability of it, but it's all written because of one person that, and that was just foreshadowing Jesus.

But you know, when I said I, I need the shepherd, it's um, just, just today it was, uh, Barbara Boyd that Tim Keller said, it's like she said. If the distance from here to the sun is 92 million miles, and that represents a, a paper, just a sheet of paper, you know, then to [00:51:00] our next, then to our next star, it's like a thousand miles high stacked the paper.

You're like, wait, a thousand miles stacked. That's how far the next star is. And then. Obviously these numbers were just so astronomical. I don't know if that's right. But then, you know, to put on the next galaxy was, you know, a hundred million miles of paper. It was just insane, you know, just how big this universe is.

And she just said, that's someone that you don't, that's not someone you invite into your life to be a counselor or to be like your, your, your guide. That's someone that you invite into your life to rule your life that you want to. Yeah. You want your life to resemble, you know that. Yeah. You want to lead your life.

And that's what the shepherd is. I mean, a shepherd, you know, Jesus is the shepherd. Like he gathers us. He's, he's not a, you know, so many of us want a seminar on how to be better, you know, or a seminar or what's the three steps to becoming a better person or how to, you know, [00:52:00] whatever. But. Jesus has done that for us.

You know, he is the, the shepherd that takes us in when we are the stupidest sheep. I mean, you know what a, what a awesome visualization of what I, I think, I

Kyle: think the key is that, I mean, people need their minds. Our heart's open to the fact that there, there's a problem. I mean, if, if I come to you right now and say, Hey, hey David, I can give you the best re radiation and chemo treatment in all the United States, you're gonna be like, that's, that's nice, Kyle, but I don't have cancer, so, no, thank you.

And, and I think the gospel comes to everyone and, and most people are like, well, I don't feel sick, so, no, thank you. And, and I think once, once people see that and uh, and of course that's the purpose of the law, then, then, then it becomes beautiful and, and something you wanna live by.

David: Absolutely. That's a great point.

Yeah, I like that.

Kyle: Well, hey, um, that's all my questions. Uh, I'm just curious though, what, what, what's going on in your life now? You, um, are you still playing or, um, or what, what's going on?

David: Yeah. [00:53:00] You know what, I, I've been working with, uh, the community here in, in Montana. I've, uh, done some private lessons, some hockey schools.

Um, you know, I just really enjoys, I guess working with kids. And, uh, one of the things that I did most of my career was always working on my skating. You know, I hired. Um, always worked with power skating coaches or, um, speed coaches, and so I've kind of taken what I've learned and, um, implemented it into the, uh, kids here, um, which has been great.

You know, just the kids have really, uh, improved and, um, kind of doing that and just, uh, yeah, not, not necessarily in a rush to figure out what's next for me, um, you know, uh, but. Uh, yeah, just, um, I might be, um, helping out with hockey ministries more, um, becoming more, um, involved there. Um, I think they want me to help out there, so, yeah.

Um, I. Just [00:54:00] trying to figure out what, uh, what God is next for me. So

Kyle: Right on. Well, I appreciate you doing this. Next time you're in Chillowak, make sure you, you stop by. I'd love to take you do some long range shooting or, um, I'm not very good at hunting. You don't have to teach me that kind of stuff, but, uh, uh, it'd be that, that'd be fun.

But yeah, thanks again for doing this. Uh, uh, it's a great story and I think it's, uh, hopefully, uh, will be a blessing to talk to people.

David: It was great just getting to know you here, Kyle, and hearing just, um, how you were in a Christian. It sounds like you have a very solid, uh, faith now, so that's just, uh, great.

I was honored to be a, be a part of this, um, podcast.

Kyle: Right on. Appreciate it. Thanks, David.

David: Yep.

Kyle: Cheers. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Furiously Curious Show. If you enjoyed the episode, please share it with friends and family or on social media or give it a rating on the podcast app that you use.

You could also, uh, support the show or the podcast by, um, donating on the Patreon account that I have. Uh, it's in the link, a link's in the description below. Um, that definitely helps out a lot. I wanna produce a lot more [00:55:00] content and, and a lot more podcasts. Um, but of course everything costs money. So if you wanna help there, that'd be awesome.

Thanks guys.

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