Money, Family & When Business Goes Sideways - Briefcase & The Barn EP 110

August 26, 2026

[00:00:00] GARY: [00:00:10] [00:00:20] What? Oh, no luck. No luck. No [00:00:30] luck yet We don't need luck[00:00:40]

[00:00:43] Sounds like my, like I could take those bred heifers[00:00:50] [00:01:00] [00:01:10] [00:01:20] [00:01:30] [00:01:40] [00:01:50] [00:02:00] [00:02:10] [00:02:20] [00:02:30] [00:02:40] [00:02:50]

[00:02:51] KYLE: Okay, do we need a laptop?

[00:02:53] GARY: I don't think so. Do we need to close that or we're good?

[00:02:56] KYLE: Yeah. I forgot the lights last week. It's super dark in the recording.

[00:02:59] GARY: Oh, [00:03:00] okay. Makes sense.

[00:03:00] KYLE: First time in 108 episodes I forgot the lights.

[00:03:04] GARY: It's probably a dark podcast in general[00:03:10]

[00:03:11] KYLE: Are you recording?[00:03:20]

[00:03:27] Uh, Lord Jesus, I am so thankful that you have a [00:03:30] sense of humor as well. Um, uh, help Gary and I as we record an episode of The Briefcase in the Barn here, um, and [00:03:40] that We would just be faithful and, uh, true to what we believe and, um, that it would glorify you. In Jesus' name, [00:03:50] amen.

[00:03:50] GARY: Amen. You can just ask me questions.

[00:03:52] You can, like, whatever, I'll talk. I'm ver- I'm just full of verbal diarrhea today, right?

[00:03:55] KYLE: Oh, yeah, just full-

[00:03:56] GARY: Pontificating. Oh, yeah ...

[00:03:57] KYLE: episode 110, I believe. [00:04:00] Um, could be wrong, could be 111, but... What's up? Adopt and foster, mentor, advocate, and volunteer and pray is what it says on Gary's shirt.

[00:04:09] GARY: Yes. [00:04:10]

[00:04:10] KYLE: Uh, I'm gonna make a commitment that when this episode comes out, you will be able to buy Briefcase in the Barn shirts.

[00:04:16] GARY: Okay. Links- I have one for sale. [00:04:20]

[00:04:20] KYLE: That's amazing.

[00:04:22] GARY: Kyle gave me one as a gift.

[00:04:24] KYLE: Some sample This handle.

[00:04:26] GARY: Yeah. Are we live now? We're good? We're on?

[00:04:29] KYLE: Mm-hmm.

[00:04:29] GARY: [00:04:30] Okay.

[00:04:30] KYLE: Yeah, we have been, yeah.

[00:04:31] GARY: Okay. Um. Yeah, I'm going to Vancouver Island tonight to go show a big farm over there.

[00:04:39] KYLE: Oh yeah, cool. Cool. [00:04:40] Yeah,

[00:04:40] GARY: and-

[00:04:40] KYLE: Tell me about the farm.

[00:04:42] Like how many buildings, and how- what's, what size? It's

[00:04:44] GARY: huge. It's huge. It's like 700 and some acres.

[00:04:47] KYLE: Oh, wow.

[00:04:47] GARY: Which is a very big farm.

[00:04:49] KYLE: Okay.

[00:04:49] GARY: Uh, there's... Interestingly enough, there's a huge farm in, uh, [00:04:50] Dewdney-Troche area that's for sale as well. 400 acres roughly, which there again, those size of land are for sale are very rare.[00:05:00]

[00:05:00] KYLE: Why would 700 acres be up for sale? Why is this person selling?

[00:05:03] GARY: Uh, it's three brothers that are farming together. I mean, it's not my client, like- Mm ... I don't have the listing, somebody else does, but I've dealt with [00:05:10] them in other areas of my business, selling them cows over the years, nice people. They built multiple new barns and were kind of in growth mode, and then I think...

[00:05:18] I don't even know what the exact reason is, [00:05:20] whether it be health things. But anytime you have partnerships and you get larger, the minute that a partner needs to be or wants to be bought out, um, then often you'll see things change very quickly. [00:05:30] That's what's interesting about business, right? And it's interesting about people growing and changing in their...

[00:05:35] I just see farms 'cause that's the bulk of what I deal with is in agriculture. But in any business, I think people have a [00:05:40] trajectory, and they spend a lot of money and they're pushing forward, and then very quickly something can change. Somebody can pass away or a business partner can have a total change of heart and feel like they wanna do something different, and [00:05:50] then boy, everybody be b- better be prepared to, uh-

[00:05:53] KYLE: Yeah

[00:05:54] GARY: get the exit planned, so. Yeah. Something that I have not done in my business, which is, which is really poor. I do want

[00:05:59] KYLE: to- Well, that [00:06:00] can cause a lot- ... form a shareholder agreement ... a lot of, a lot of issues. Yeah. Like, like in, in my exit of MDT, I'm happy there was a really clear shareholders agreement to follow, like, and that was-

[00:06:09] GARY: Not just some [00:06:10] nebulous, "Hey-

[00:06:10] KYLE: No.

[00:06:11] Like- ...

[00:06:11] GARY: how, like, how is this person gonna be

[00:06:12] KYLE: bought out?" Yeah, this was a very legalized document, and there's nothing... Like, it's just good to do that because you just don't know what's gonna happen.

[00:06:19] GARY: [00:06:20] Yeah, and I think when you're in family businesses like I am, you just think it's less important 'cause you kinda know everybody, but in a way it's almost even more important.

[00:06:26] Yeah. 'Cause like now these are your people. They're gonna be your family no matter what. Yeah. And obviously they're not gonna [00:06:30] necessarily be your business partners, and people can get very, uh, petty. And everybody that you talk to, this is just my perspective 'cause I actually have seen [00:06:40] a lot of this lately, everybody that you would talk to would say, "I put people ahead of money" but almost nobody does.

[00:06:45] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:06:45] GARY: Like, nobody. So very hard to do that. Yeah. It means that you're taking it in the [00:06:50] shorts, it means that you're taking the high road. Yeah. It means that you're being gracious, and that's hard for any of us to do, let alone when somebody's wanting to be bought out. Yes. So.

[00:06:57] KYLE: Yes. But when it says, um, your heart is [00:07:00] where your treasure is-

[00:07:01] GARY: That's where it comes in

[00:07:02] that's where it comes in. And you can tell where people's treasure is- Yes ... real quick when you're talking to them.

[00:07:05] KYLE: Yes.

[00:07:06] GARY: Yeah. Myself included. It's been very, uh- Yeah ... it's been a real... I've been on a real [00:07:10] journey even in the last year in business dealings where it's like, "Ooh" How do I, uh, what's or how am I supposed to be acting in this?

[00:07:17] But even,

[00:07:17] KYLE: but even with a shareholders agreement, there can still be lots [00:07:20] of discrepancy after that as well.

[00:07:21] GARY: Nuances and gray areas and, yeah.

[00:07:22] KYLE: Right? Like if it's set on a certain valuation, who sets the valuation? If it's, you know, based on, um [00:07:30] Like, there's just, there's just so many variables, and, and likely at the end, both people won't be happy.

[00:07:36] GARY: It's a little funny, I used that line this morning. I was in a meeting this morning working [00:07:40] on something, buying something, and that's the exact word I said, um, at the end of the meeting. I said, "In a, in most of the dealings I've done," whether it was I was the buyer or the seller- Mm ... [00:07:50] whatever it would be, in a general great deal, you will have the buyer thinking they left some money on the table, and the seller thinking they overpaid.

[00:07:56] And if both people f- have, feel that genuinely, you're probably in the rough [00:08:00] vicinity of where you need to be. Yeah. Now, those are deals... On a house it's very different, because, you know, there's just- So

[00:08:04] KYLE: those, those are forced deals. I mean, these are like exits, you mean, where you're both not happy, sort of-

[00:08:08] GARY: Yeah, an exit would be different [00:08:10] again.

[00:08:10] And, and I think you really wanna be careful paint brushing with exits, because if somebody's a minority shareholder or somebody who has recently sold shares or some- Like, the exit looks very different than when you- Yeah ... [00:08:20] had two equal partners that started a business- Oh, yeah ... three decades ago- Yes ... and now we're planning- Yes

[00:08:24] our exit. It's like, ah, you're not gonna get treated the same way as if you're a minority shareholder in a big company.

[00:08:29] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:08:29] GARY: And, and I [00:08:30] think people need... And, but people don't understand that. They would assume-

[00:08:32] KYLE: And including access, including access to the financials and things like that. Like, if you have, you know, $10,000 of shares in a mil- a $100 million company, you're probably not [00:08:40] gonna be shown the financials, right?

[00:08:41] GARY: That I can't, I couldn't picture. I wouldn't wanna be a part of anything if I didn't get to see the paperwork, but I mean, I don't know what the, what it is. Well,

[00:08:47] KYLE: you, I mean, you're not gonna get that detailed of financial statements from the stocks you [00:08:50] invest in.

[00:08:50] GARY: You get very detailed financial statements.

[00:08:53] That's what's very interesting. Any stock that you own-

[00:08:55] KYLE: I guess it's all public ...

[00:08:56] GARY: it's publicly traded. Oh, that's

[00:08:57] KYLE: right.

[00:08:57] GARY: That's why companies- Of course ... often will be [00:09:00] public and go back private, because the amount of reporting you have to do as a publicly- Yeah ... traded company is, is arduous and expensive.

[00:09:05] KYLE: Ironically, the amount of bullshit that happens is way more in the public companies. No, it's not. Like, the amount of, like, [00:09:10] um, fake valuations.

[00:09:11] GARY: Pumping up of fa- Yeah ... of stock prices? Well, so if you're investing in stocks, one of the first things that anybody who, you know, if you really get into details in investing in a company, one of the first things they [00:09:20] would tell you is, "Go look at the, um, management bonus structure and agreements they have in place for stock options for the management team."

[00:09:27] Oh, yeah. And if those are nonexistent, that's probably a [00:09:30] pretty safe company to invest in. And also, if the f- all the directors of the company are always buying back shares themselves-

[00:09:36] KYLE: Yeah ...

[00:09:36] GARY: that's a good sign.

[00:09:37] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:09:39] GARY: So, [00:09:40] but, uh, pri- private deals are, are complicated.

[00:09:42] KYLE: I believe that that's how, um, I originally got in at MBT.

[00:09:45] There was private equity that got involved for a while, and they wanted the management team- [00:09:50]

[00:09:50] GARY: To own s- have some skin in the game ... to own,

[00:09:51] KYLE: yeah.

[00:09:51] GARY: Okay. That would make sense. Yeah. My son asked me the other day when, uh, TNT was gonna be a publicly traded company. [00:10:00]

[00:10:00] KYLE: What'd you say?

[00:10:00] GARY: I said I just don't have, just don't have the heart to do the pump and dump

[00:10:03] KYLE: anymore.

[00:10:03] Didn't you, uh, you took, uh, people won't know this, but you took TNT onto Sh- Dragon Den or Shark Tank.

[00:10:08] GARY: Yeah, Dragon's Den.

[00:10:09] KYLE: And you didn't get [00:10:10] televised.

[00:10:10] GARY: No, did not.

[00:10:11] KYLE: What was that experience like?

[00:10:13] GARY: Um- I mean, I got on because I distinctly remember the day that I went to audition. It was, [00:10:20] the auditions were in Abbotsford.

[00:10:21] I just literally went all by myself and-

[00:10:23] KYLE: This is so Gary. I would go do this.

[00:10:25] GARY: This is so fun ... no planning. I just showed up at this b- pl- random address that I saw on the internet, [00:10:30] probably on Facebook or something, and the lady that did this s- asked me to do my shtick, and I just said, "Hey, like, I'm gonna wear these assless chaps, these leather chaps.

[00:10:37] I unload hay for a living." And I mean, [00:10:40] you know, I had her at assless chaps, right? And then she's like, "Oh, yeah, this is great for TV," right? So they're, they're just looking to entertain, right? Mm-hmm. It was nothing to do with the business really. And then I went in and kinda gave my spiel, and there [00:10:50] again, probably not prepared at all.

[00:10:51] Wouldn't have even went over it once, 'cause unfortunately that's how I roll. And, uh, you know, Jim Tr-Traveling was on there, the guy who owns all the Boston Pizzas, and he said, [00:11:00] "Oh, you know, knock..." Nobody put any money in, and I didn't make it to TV, but he said, "Hey, if you ever need help or anything, reach out."

[00:11:05] And I never did reach out. So I was basically looking for money to, like, start, you know, selling hay [00:11:10] retail out in Aldergrove- Right ... 'cause that had always kinda been my dream of kind of starting- Hay

[00:11:14] KYLE: retail.

[00:11:14] GARY: Yeah, like there is r- there's retail feed stores all over Fraser- Oh, that way. Okay ... there's, there's not even that many actually.

[00:11:18] There's probably 10 or something, or [00:11:20] 20.

[00:11:20] KYLE: Well, I mean, that's what you'll probably buy next, right? Trask's?

[00:11:23] GARY: Something like that. That's exactly what I was kinda looking to do, but I would- Yeah ... wanna do it at the west end of the valley, like

[00:11:27] KYLE: in Chilliwack. By the way, anybody in Chilliwack, I went in that store the other [00:11:30] day, and, or the last six months, and bought some stuff, and a few times since.

[00:11:33] That's like a genuinely great store.

[00:11:35] GARY: It's a great store. It's why they do really well.

[00:11:37] KYLE: Like phenomenal products- And everybody

[00:11:39] GARY: in the community- ... great customer [00:11:40] service ... everybody in the community supports it because- I

[00:11:41] KYLE: didn't know this ...

[00:11:42] GARY: they have a lot of stuff there.

[00:11:42] KYLE: I didn't know this about that place. So.

[00:11:43] I guess I don't move very much outside stuff, but white collar.

[00:11:47] GARY: Went and built the tree fort, so you went over there to Trask, but [00:11:50] no.

[00:11:50] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:11:50] GARY: It's a great store in Rosedale. They do really well.

[00:11:52] KYLE: Hmm.

[00:11:53] GARY: On very small chunk of real estate.

[00:11:55] KYLE: Um, going back to you, um, your money conversation earlier about saying, [00:12:00] um, like getting screwed and having to walk away as a- Yeah

[00:12:02] Christian. Like what, what are y- what's your opinion on that? Like what, in what situations is it too far? Because you've given me some advice that I think was super [00:12:10] helpful a couple years ago, where you told me just walk away. Just don't... You have way bigger fish to fry. Walk away. Don't fight for that.

[00:12:19] GARY: I [00:12:20] guess, like, well, there'd be a couple thoughts.

[00:12:21] One thought might be, this, there again, I don't wanna ... You gotta be careful bringing God's sovereignty into it. But I guess I would say that there are times where God probably [00:12:30] just wants us to take a beating financially for our own character development. Um, He may just realize that that idol, that treasure is our idol, and He might wanna rip it out of our hands.

[00:12:38] So I think for me, it's [00:12:40] been that. Um, I think more than the money, I think often, for me anyways, it's been like justice is making sure this is right, and I would seek justice. But I think as [00:12:50] Christians, we should realize what justice really means, and it wouldn't go well for us. And we should realize, you know, how much grace we've experienced in our life.

[00:12:58] And we're sp- like, there's so many [00:13:00] spots in the Bible that clearly tell us to give that to others, but we never assume that's when we're getting screwed by somebody.

[00:13:06] KYLE: And it's almost financially, money has like an, is outside of [00:13:10] that rule. If I think about it, I would- I would've been taught that growing up, but it's like when someone would've stolen money from you, then it didn't count almost that there had to, that there was [00:13:20] times where you needed to have grace.

[00:13:22] GARY: Yeah, and I think even I've had it a lot with business people lately, and I've had it too where I've had checks bounce for a large amount of money that people would mean hundreds of thousands of dollars, and you're kind of in the [00:13:30] spot where it's like, "Well, I can't just ... You know, I gotta survive." So, so that is part of it.

[00:13:33] Like, I think as a business owner- Yeah ... you know, you're allowed to try and collect money that's owed to you. Um, and obviously in certain industries, like, there, you can [00:13:40] put liens on properties or you have some recourse, but a lot of times you don't. You know, if you're, you know, do a tile job for somebody, they don't pay you, like, I mean, yeah, you- You've just

[00:13:47] KYLE: lost it.

[00:13:48] GARY: What's that?

[00:13:48] KYLE: You've just lost

[00:13:49] GARY: it. You maybe just [00:13:50] lost it, but I, I think, I guess in the perspective of I look at it way more not in that front, 'cause I think most business owners actually are too lax on collecting money and don't keep the leash tight [00:14:00] enough. Because most people when they know they gotta pay, they pay.

[00:14:02] Yes. Like, we have another, one of our businesses, Beekman Auctions, and that's one business where people always pay before they take their stuff, and it's actually the only business I have that they do- Mm ... [00:14:10] for sure always pay before they leave. Yeah. I don't care who you are, you're just paying 'cause we're not gonna chase you and, you know, it's, we're not gonna do this.

[00:14:15] Yeah. And because we pay right away, so we're literally within a week we've paid everybody.

[00:14:19] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:14:19] GARY: [00:14:20] But, um, it's way more in areas of what you were talking about, about like shareholder agreements, business relationships, family stuff of like, hey... And [00:14:30] like in the meeting I had this morning, I said, "Hey, like we're not, you know, we're gonna agree in principle on it, and then we're gonna write it down."

[00:14:34] And we're not gonna write it down because we need to have a written contract to make sure. We need to write it down 'cause we'll [00:14:40] just forget. Yes. And what we remember happening will change over the course of time, and it will change depending on the experience and how we view things. And so I think people often, [00:14:50] my experience anyways, is just that people very quickly, their memories get hazy.

[00:14:53] It's human nature. And, um, if I look at my life, the times, and Marie's always challenges me [00:15:00] on this, we have never looked back and been like, "Oh, we should have just kept going after that money." And I mean, I could write a list of people that have- Mm ... over the course of time, you know, in some way I should have gotten [00:15:10] paid for something, didn't get paid.

[00:15:11] It's a very- I can't handle, like personally, I'm too childish to like carry resentment and the, the angst of somebody, of me being [00:15:20] resentful towards someone. Like, it's not good for my heart and my head.

[00:15:22] KYLE: Okay, yeah.

[00:15:23] GARY: Some people maybe carry it better. I don't, so like for me it's- Like

[00:15:25] KYLE: what does that, uh- What does that mean?

[00:15:26] How does that look like? What does that look like? You're just stewing

[00:15:29] GARY: about it or? You're stewing about it, and like [00:15:30] people do, and like all of a sudden now it's like I'm putting my kids to bed and I'm anxious and angry about somebody that's... Like I just, I just have to let that go very quickly. And like I say, it's not always easy to do, [00:15:40] and the, it's the closer you are in relationship, the more it stings.

[00:15:44] KYLE: Yes.

[00:15:45] GARY: You follow me? So like when you come into the inner circle of family, you know, and I have great [00:15:50] family, so it, it, it's gr- been, especially with my immediate family and stuff, I've been treated really well. But you look at your, if you go in your outer circle and you start to get to these peripheral relationships where, hey, people are gonna [00:16:00] shaft you, it's going to happen, right?

[00:16:02] So it's also the other reason why business owners need to make, you need to make decent money, 'cause you gotta have a buffer for, for when things do go sideways, and they will go sideways. [00:16:10]

[00:16:10] KYLE: Yeah. Um, it makes me, uh, think, think about, I think it was a, definitely a, a god for me for a long time [00:16:20] 'cause it gave me a sense of control or power or maybe belonging, acceptance.

[00:16:27] Like if I... Like you could be screwed up in a [00:16:30] whole bunch of areas, but if you were doing well financially, that you were pretty well accepted by the majority of people.

[00:16:34] GARY: Mm-hmm.

[00:16:35] KYLE: Or that was, um, I guess the, the, the thinking I had. [00:16:40] Um, but it, having it go, going to almost nothing, it was, um, I don't know. I might, I might take this out after, after [00:16:50] I share it with you right now, but um, of, uh, I think it was three summers ago, it was August.

[00:16:56] I had no money at all. I had, uh, two credit [00:17:00] cards maxed out, one at 20K, one at 15K. I think I had like 200 something grand in debt. Um, hadn't signed any coaching clients in a whole [00:17:10] while, uh, and I was just done. And I was laying on the floor here, actually in this office, and I was just praying, and I read in the, read that, uh, proverb this morning that I've shared down here [00:17:20] a bunch of times, but I've never shared that this happened alongside with it, um, which is I think Proverbs 18:11.

[00:17:27] Um, "The rich think their, of their wealth [00:17:30] as a strong fortress. They imagine it to be a high wall of safety." Kind of saying that the wealth that rich people have gives them, in, in, in their [00:17:40] imagination, it gives them some security, but that's actually all it is. It's just in their imagination, and they're just as exposed as I feel in that moment.

[00:17:47] And I was like, "God, I could use some imaginary [00:17:50] walls right now." Like I, I don't care. I still gotta pay the bills. Yeah. And so, um, anyway, Nicole came in, we prayed together, and she's like, "Why don't I go drive Uber?" And I'm like, "Okay, sounds good." [00:18:00] And so we had done Skip The Dishes actually before during, um, COVID for two weeks.

[00:18:04] Right when COVID happened, where it was super shut down for two weeks, I sh- me and her both signed up for Skip The Dishes those two [00:18:10] weeks, and we wailed around Chilliwack like and made like three grand in two weeks together. We would take shifts. It was a lot of fun. It was empty Chilliwack, right? No one was driving.[00:18:20]

[00:18:21] Anyways, where was I?

[00:18:24] GARY: I'm just still stuck on you, uh, thinking of telling your wife she's gonna drive an Uber.

[00:18:29] KYLE: Oh, yes. [00:18:30] Okay, yeah. So s- so she, she, she offered. I was like, "Yeah, whatev-" Like, I, I didn't know. And so she, she went downstairs to my Tesla, uh, which I only owned, uh, because I owed more money on it than it's worth.[00:18:40]

[00:18:40] Um, and, uh, she went to get my insurance papers. Mm-hmm. And on the, on the... In a Tesla, you need to have access to the screen to open the glove box, um, otherwise it won't open, so it's not like anybody can get in there. And, uh, and she [00:18:50] comes upstairs and she shows me the glove b- um, insurance paper bag, and there's $5,000 cash inside.

[00:18:54] Oh,

[00:18:54] GARY: I remember that. You told... I remember you calling me then, yeah.

[00:18:56] KYLE: And we had no idea.

[00:18:58] GARY: I was hiking on Little Mountain when you called, called [00:19:00] me.

[00:19:00] KYLE: Just floored. And it was like God saying to me, like, "You can trust me." Like, that this whole, the whole purpose of it all was not [00:19:10] just to make it not a god for me and that I wouldn't sin in that area.

[00:19:14] It was the positive side of that, is that, "Hey, you can trust me. I'll give you what you need when you [00:19:20] need it." And that's really what it taught me, and it's helped me a huge amount since when-

[00:19:26] GARY: How do those things, though, collide with the idea of like, you know, [00:19:30] saving, prudent-

[00:19:31] KYLE: I mean, that's a whole other thing

[00:19:32] how does- You still need to learn financial skills and to do things well. I, I

[00:19:35] GARY: always struggle

[00:19:36] KYLE: with that. Like, what does that look like? Like Dave Ramsey's method, like I've paid off a huge amount of debt in a [00:19:40] couple years and realized that how I was living before was, in your words, like a drunken sailor.

[00:19:44] Yeah. Spending money like a drunken sailor, which I did do. Like, I, I, I-

[00:19:48] GARY: Probably still do. Pretty loose.

[00:19:49] KYLE: Yeah, [00:19:50] probably. I still do. Pretty loose. Yeah, I still do. Yeah, yeah.

[00:19:51] GARY: Pretty loose.

[00:19:52] KYLE: Yeah, yeah. But-

[00:19:54] GARY: Oh, me too. I, I definitely could-

[00:19:56] KYLE: Also learning to view money... I, I was taught ab- almost nothing about money growing up, but, [00:20:00] um, viewing-

[00:20:00] GARY: Why is that?

[00:20:01] 'Cause it's private or just 'cause it's like, hey, your dad's a pastor and obviously, you know, he did okay, but it was like it never would've been a focus- It's not like I was not- ... of his life. He wasn't building up a-

[00:20:09] KYLE: Well, it's not like I was [00:20:10] only not, not just taught, taught only money. It was just not-

[00:20:13] GARY: Yeah, there's certain things you just don't wanna

[00:20:14] KYLE: discuss

[00:20:14] just not taught anything.

[00:20:15] GARY: Yeah, about the money.

[00:20:16] KYLE: But I... Or, yeah, just not taught. Uh, [00:20:20] just- Or you

[00:20:20] GARY: weren't listening.

[00:20:21] KYLE: Yeah, I was not listening either anymore at some point. I was like, "I'm done." Um, uh, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I wasn't taught anything about [00:20:30] it. So, um, learning about money and especially viewing it more as like, uh, Scott Dunnell from, um...

[00:20:35] He's a great, um, guy to follow on Instagram for parenting advice and value [00:20:40] creation for kids and, and what, that m- money is just a tool. It's not like an end in itself. Um-

[00:20:46] GARY: It's very, very empty. It's so bizarre.

[00:20:48] KYLE: Yeah. It's so bizarre. And just, and, and seeing [00:20:50] it for what it is more and more has really freed me from it or, or I wouldn't say that I don't still be like, "Oh, I hope, you know, I can do a million dollars in, in coaching."

[00:20:58] No, of course. I, I, [00:21:00] like, I wanna set goals and I think it's important for business owners to make a lot of money to give, right? I think giving is super important. Um, and you know, these different charities are run by people that can create a lot of [00:21:10] value.

[00:21:11] GARY: Hmm.

[00:21:16] I al- also think of setting up my truck as a Uber truck, 'cause a lot of times I just [00:21:20] drive in circles and I feel like I should be monetizing the fact that I drive in circles while I talk on the phone.

[00:21:25] KYLE: Well, I do f- self-driving way more than I ever have. Okay. And, uh- There's

[00:21:28] GARY: a lot of videos popping [00:21:30] up lately online, eh, of all the self-driving Teslas in Chilliwack.

[00:21:31] I did

[00:21:31] KYLE: see one. I heard some one in Chilliwack. It's really

[00:21:33] GARY: bad. Yeah,

[00:21:33] KYLE: yeah.

[00:21:34] GARY: It's really bad.

[00:21:34] KYLE: I can't get away with it, like being on my... Like sleeping or anything else like that. No? No. The closest I can- Why not? '

[00:21:39] GARY: [00:21:40] Cause

[00:21:40] KYLE: you just kind of fall asleep? Well, it'll

[00:21:41] GARY: turn, it'll turn off. Oh. How do people-

[00:21:43] KYLE: I don't know.

[00:21:44] GARY: 'Cause it... Watch, it's watching your eyes, right? Tesla- It's

[00:21:46] KYLE: watching my eyes, and if I put a cap on or sunglasses, it makes me hold the steering wheel [00:21:50] still. So the closest I can get to it is, like, putting my knees in the steering wheel so it knows I'm there, and dozing, which I've done a little bit.

[00:21:56] GARY: Yeah.

[00:21:57] KYLE: Crazy. But pretty soon those cars will just be able [00:22:00] to go off on their own when you're not using them, and they'll Uber for you during the day, and they'll just come back and-

[00:22:04] GARY: Okay Um,

[00:22:08] KYLE: I had a topic that we [00:22:10] got from, uh, Fenort Contracting.

[00:22:12] GARY: Okay.

[00:22:13] KYLE: He's, uh, helping me with my tree fort. Phenomenal guy. I don't know why I plug him on here because, [00:22:20] um, he's just gonna have less time for the projects I have around here.

[00:22:23] GARY: Lookin' after you and your weird things that you're doing.

[00:22:24] KYLE: Yeah. He helped me with the greenhouse and all kinds of stuff. Anyways, he's a firefighter as well, so he sees a lot of carnage. [00:22:30] And, uh, so last week there was an 18-year-old that, um, took his own life in front of a train.

[00:22:36] GARY: In Chilliwack. In

[00:22:36] KYLE: Chilliwack.

[00:22:37] Awful. This past, this past weekend. Awful. [00:22:40] And, uh, so I was outside talking to him right before we started recording here, and I said, "You got any topics we can record on?" And he said, um, not in these words, but summarized, like, [00:22:50] what to say to an 18-year-old who feels hopeless. Uh, 'cause he knew, uh, he knows a bunch of this kid's, these kids' friends, and so they're in high school.

[00:22:58] Um, apparently they have, like, [00:23:00] a lot of fear of the government. Um, they don't have any financial hope. Like, they're just, um, I think till, till, like, um, senior, um, um, guys, there's, [00:23:10] they don't think there's just anything they can do. They don't have a lot of role models like we would have in, in, in our communities when it comes to business and finances and things like that.

[00:23:16] They don't, they see how expensive things are, so very little hope. [00:23:20] Um, they don't, so they don't really see the point of what's going on, um, going to work. Um, apparently a lot of them don't even meet girls anymore. They just hang out as guys, and there's not like a lot of da- uh, a lot [00:23:30] of dating happening, and just overall helplessness-ness.

[00:23:33] And he said, "What do you say?" So you see, this was the topic he said to us. "What would, what would you say to one of those guys in that spot?"[00:23:40]

[00:23:43] GARY: It's really depressing to think about. It's really sad

[00:23:46] KYLE: Well, that's where these guys are at, right? They're ve- Yeah ... they're depressed. It's, it's, uh, [00:23:50] it's, I think gonna be- become a bigger problem, unfortunately, because of the stagnation and that's just where I think the economy's going, where there's gonna be-

[00:23:57] GARY: I think it stems way more from family, and I [00:24:00] feel like, like- That's

[00:24:01] KYLE: true,

[00:24:01] GARY: yeah

[00:24:01] it's very, very hard to say 'cause I think, well, for lots of reasons. Um, one is-

[00:24:07] KYLE: But I don't necessarily- Sorry ... wanna go into the reason why it might [00:24:10] be happening.

[00:24:10] GARY: What would you say to that? Oh.

[00:24:11] KYLE: What would you say to that?

[00:24:13] GARY: Oh, I would just encourage him. I guess I felt like I was at the end of my wits literally and figuratively a few times in my life, so I [00:24:20] just feel like I can offer quite a bit of hope in the sense that how you feel today is d- not necessarily how you'll feel in five years from now.

[00:24:26] And like I feel [00:24:30] like work is the answer to a lot of problems. Like, I feel like a lot of young people are not working hard enough Because with work, like just working physically is [00:24:40] super healthy. Mm-hmm. Like it's just literally the endorphins of just working physically is healthy, especially for young men.

[00:24:44] Um- And

[00:24:45] KYLE: so just tell these guys get two or three

[00:24:46] GARY: jobs- Just get to work ...

[00:24:47] KYLE: because, like,

[00:24:48] GARY: a

[00:24:48] KYLE: lot of jobs

[00:24:48] GARY: don't even run. Yeah, get two jobs. Just get [00:24:50] two jobs. Just start working. And, like, even just through jobs you'll meet good people. If you're starting to work in good environments, you might have a bunch of losers you're working with, but you might have one or two great guys at work.

[00:24:59] If I think of, [00:25:00] like, even my experience in my early 20s of, like, unloading hay, you know, all of a sudden like, hey, there's a guy there, he's a married man. He, he seems happy. He's got a couple kids. Like, he's just grinding her out, right? He didn't [00:25:10] keep doing it. Eventually he quit- Yeah ... and moved on to something, uh-

[00:25:12] KYLE: Yeah

[00:25:12] GARY: a little easier. But, like, that would be one of my first thoughts would be, you know, 'cause you ... You know, a lot of people would be like, "Oh, you need God," [00:25:20] or you need ... And obviously that's ultimately where your joy and your fulfillment's gonna come in. But are you gonna tell that to some guy that's, you know, smoking weed, hanging out at downtown Chilliwack?

[00:25:29] Like, no, you're [00:25:30] not. What if, and what, what- And I'm being pushy. Maybe it's not even

[00:25:31] KYLE: that obvious. It's not even that guy. It's the guy that actually has a job and he's working 50 hours a week.

[00:25:35] GARY: Do you think people feel that negative that are doing that?

[00:25:38] KYLE: Yeah. Oh, 100%. [00:25:40] Guys that are, you know, spending-

[00:25:41] GARY: They're spending too much time on the internet, Kyle

[00:25:42] KYLE: Well, that's for sure true.

[00:25:43] Like- Get off your phone ... turn off the phone.

[00:25:45] GARY: Get

[00:25:45] KYLE: off your phone. Completely. Go to a b- dumb phone. Yeah. Punk'd.com. I should start selling them. Frick. [00:25:50] I'm gonna start ... I, I need to put my- Build a brand.

[00:25:52] GARY: Build a brand. We need to make one.

[00:25:53] KYLE: Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's a little easier said than done, but.

[00:25:56] GARY: Is it?

[00:25:56] KYLE: I, I'm assuming so.

[00:25:58] Okay. A good, a good, good dumb phone. [00:26:00] I got one from Switzerland Punk'd. Uh, it's on my desk there. Wanna see it? I'll put it on camera.

[00:26:04] GARY: Yeah. Yeah, I guess the idea for me would be, um, you know, if I [00:26:10] think of somebody, and I've had people very close to me,

including myself, that have been very hopeless at times in their life, many, many times.

[00:26:16] And it's, comes from such different things and for such different reasons, and sometimes it's a [00:26:20] complete, you know, one-off brief experience based on, you know, hard financial times or lost loved ones or being treated really poorly. And then other times it's like, yeah, it's just a [00:26:30] deep hopelessness. And sometimes it's a mental health thing where, you know, people need medication and, you know, way beyond what any pithy words from some other person are gonna fix, right?

[00:26:39] So- Yeah ... it's pretty [00:26:40] complicated. But, um, yeah, suicide's a long-term solution to a temporary problem, right? So it's pretty, uh, pretty traumatic, pretty sad.

[00:26:48] KYLE: Yeah, it is.

[00:26:48] GARY: Is that your phone right there in that [00:26:50] canister?

[00:26:50] KYLE: Yeah. So this is no- that's another one I thought I'd show too. So this is the Punk'd,

[00:26:54] GARY: this is- This is what I mean about spending like a drunken sailor.

[00:26:56] KYLE: This is the Punk'd phone. Um-

[00:26:58] GARY: That is really cool. I like that.

[00:26:59] KYLE: Yeah. So [00:27:00] this is out of Switzerland. I've used this for, uh- Is it

[00:27:02] GARY: for sale?

[00:27:03] KYLE: No. It's mine. Okay, '

[00:27:03] GARY: cause I would buy it.

[00:27:05] KYLE: Um-

[00:27:05] GARY: You could auction it off right now.

[00:27:07] KYLE: Um, and, uh, so it calls, [00:27:10] texts, uh, it does Signal, which is a huge pain in the ass to figure out.

[00:27:13] All this stuff is a huge pain in the ass to figure out. It's not like an iPhone. It's not like the masses buy it. So if you wanna get into this stuff, expect it to be a huge [00:27:20] pain in the ass.

[00:27:20] GARY: Okay.

[00:27:21] KYLE: That's just part of the game of getting away from the things- From the- ... that

[00:27:25] GARY: are

[00:27:25] KYLE: ruining

[00:27:25] GARY: us ... from the thing that they indoctrinate you with.

[00:27:26] Yes. It's so funny that you're saying that. I thought of that earlier today.

[00:27:29] KYLE: Yes.

[00:27:29] GARY: How easy [00:27:30] iPhone is to use for-

[00:27:31] KYLE: Exactly. That's the point ... people

[00:27:32] GARY: that have no brains

[00:27:32] KYLE: like me- That's the

[00:27:33] GARY: point ... when it comes to

[00:27:33] KYLE: technology. Yeah. So you're gonna get used to it being annoying, but after three to six- six months it becomes normal.

[00:27:38] Okay. Just like being [00:27:40] maxed out on a certain amount of time on your phone or whatever. You know what I did on the weekend actually? I was camping for the last two days, over the weekend, and so I gave N- made Nicole, um, create a password for my phone to get [00:27:50] in, and I turned the face ID off. And so I could still take pictures the whole weekend, but I just could never get into my phone, and I just had airplane mode on so I couldn't, that- Okay

[00:27:58] couldn't receive messages or

[00:27:59] GARY: anything. Did you not feel [00:28:00] like you just had to turn airplane mode off or not?

[00:28:03] KYLE: I had turn... I don't, I don't wanna get notifications and then not be opening them. Okay, you

[00:28:05] GARY: were fine being off your phone?

[00:28:07] KYLE: Oh, yeah. I, I need it. I, I'm way calmer and happier. [00:28:10]

[00:28:10] GARY: Okay.

[00:28:10] KYLE: For sure. Everyone w- is.

[00:28:12] First two days you're probably gonna go absolutely insane 'cause you're- Right ... such an addict. Anyways, yeah, punk phone, so it does call, text, has a hotspot, and [00:28:20] does signal, but pain in the ass to set up, um, encrypted. And then this other one is, I got this a couple months ago 'cause I was looking into other ones.

[00:28:27] I actually hadn't even opened it yet. It's been sitting on my desk [00:28:30] forever. It's called a Wise Phone, but it's a type of dumb phone as well, so here I'm just doing a live unboxing here on the podcast. I

[00:28:35] GARY: like it. I like it. And by the way, this is what sells on YouTube, right? If my kids watch stuff, it's [00:28:40] where, like, somebody else is opening Christmas presents.

[00:28:41] Drives my wife crazy.

[00:28:43] KYLE: It comes with a SIM card

[00:28:44] GARY: and everything. Comes on the edge. Watching other kids play games on the internet's her least favorite thing. [00:28:50] This looks very fancy. Anyways,

[00:28:51] KYLE: apparently

[00:28:51] GARY: it's- This is an Apple, right? Looks like an Apple.

[00:28:52] KYLE: No. Yeah, this is a, a version of a dumb phone which is, just does maps, camera, settings, messages, and phone.

[00:28:58] GARY: That is an iPhone right there, [00:29:00] correct me if I'm wrong. N-

[00:29:00] KYLE: no. This is a- For sure not? ... Wise Phone, 100%.

[00:29:02] GARY: Are you sure it doesn't say Apple on the back?

[00:29:04] KYLE: Yes, Gary. I know what an Apple ph- ... This isn't Apple, okay? This is a Samsung. Crazy. [00:29:10]

[00:29:10] GARY: So I'm pretty sure it's- Sorry for being so doubting ...

[00:29:12] KYLE: the software that's been, um, downloaded onto it is that that's what it's actually selling.

[00:29:17] I'm pretty sure the hardware here is a regular [00:29:20] Android phone. Okay,

[00:29:20] GARY: I think we need to do more homework on this. I think this would be a great product to start creating and selling. I think there's a business opportunity

[00:29:26] KYLE: here. Well, for sure the lockboxes, 'cause that guy, you reached out to that guy, 'cause I'm like, it was [00:29:30] impossible to buy something off his website, and, like, 90% of it's sold out.

[00:29:33] I'm like, "Dude, get rid of all the stuff that's sold out. Focus on the things that are s- selling- Mm-hmm ... and just make it really easy to buy." And so I [00:29:40] emailed him that 'cause I said it was a pain in the butt, and I tried to set up a affiliate code with him. Um, and, uh, and he was like, "No, I like it how it is," so I just buy it off Amazon because it's way easier [00:29:50] and it's just, I can't buy it off his website.

[00:29:51] Same company? Yeah. He just sell it- So we

[00:29:52] GARY: could create a knockoff, I'm assuming.

[00:29:54] KYLE: Uh, yeah, but I, it was in Shark Tank. It was in Shark Tank and everything, so I, there, I don't know if there's patents. The patent would

[00:29:58] GARY: be pretty strong.

[00:29:59] KYLE: You might have to- I'm not [00:30:00] sure. I doubt it. It's a pretty simple device. I was just thinking about going to him again and being like, "Hey, buddy, like, you wanna sell this thing?"

[00:30:08] 'Cause I could... Those things [00:30:10] are amazing. You feel

[00:30:10] GARY: like you could sell.

[00:30:11] KYLE: Well, they're so valuable. Like, they literally cost 150 bucks.

[00:30:16] GARY: It's bizarre that we need to buy something

[00:30:17] KYLE: that makes us do that. And they will give you millions of dollar in value with your [00:30:20] kids 'cause you're present.

[00:30:21] GARY: Yeah.

[00:30:23] KYLE: I know. I get passionate about that.

[00:30:28] Back to the 18-year-old thing. [00:30:30] Your answer is work harder? Anything else?

[00:30:32] GARY: Uh, pretty much that. Hard work solves a lot of problems[00:30:40]

[00:30:40] KYLE: I guess I would say acknowledge the fact that there is, this life is a huge disappointment. It's not what it was supposed to be because of sin, and there's just a huge [00:30:50] amount of suffering. And I think as a young person, for a long time I still believed in some type of utopia that that wasn't gonna be the case and I was gonna arrive at some point- [00:31:00] Mm-hmm

[00:31:00] at a place where life wasn't gonna necessarily be hard, and that's just not reality. And I think there's an acceptance that needs to happen there. Like, it's just [00:31:10] really hard. This is what you're dealing with. And, um, go find something that you can [00:31:20] help others with and make a profit.

[00:31:24] GARY: Yeah, or just get out of your own help- head.

[00:31:26] Yeah. Just help someone else.

[00:31:27] KYLE: Help somebody else. It's amazing. It's amazing how powerful it

[00:31:27] GARY: is to- Like,

[00:31:28] KYLE: help other people. Go [00:31:30] serve people Yeah. It doesn't have to be at a soup kitchen. It just means, like, in your daily work, think about when you go into a meeting, into any place you're at, like, "How can I [00:31:40] make the people's lives around me better?"

[00:31:44] And not just in, like, simple, practical ways at the grocery store or whatever, but also, like, in the business or your work where [00:31:50] you're working. Have some- have a purpose bigger than yourself, which I think comes from our Christian faith, that this life isn't about us. It's about Jesus, [00:32:00] and, um, he suffered as well.

[00:32:04] I've heard a few, um, people question re- recently, "Why is there so much suffering in this world? Like, what's the answer to that?"

[00:32:09] GARY: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:09] KYLE: [00:32:10] And the best answers that I remember, 'cause I'm sure there's not, this is just a partial answer, is that Christ suffered the worst. Like, why would he have to [00:32:20] suffer?

[00:32:21] GARY: You haven't watched the sermon from this past week at Central yet?

[00:32:23] KYLE: No, I haven't.

[00:32:24] GARY: It is wild.

[00:32:25] KYLE: Okay.

[00:32:25] GARY: Pat Shebell.

[00:32:26] KYLE: Okay. Yeah. Beautiful.

[00:32:27] GARY: Oh,

[00:32:28] KYLE: you're waiting for me. I'm gonna golf with him tomorrow morning.

[00:32:29] GARY: Okay. It's [00:32:30] amazing.

[00:32:31] KYLE: Um-

[00:32:31] GARY: It's exactly about this. It's on Psalm 69.

[00:32:34] KYLE: And he has experienced suffering. If you haven't listened- Yeah ... to my podcast with him, I'll, uh, see if I- Yeah ... can link it below.

[00:32:39] Um, [00:32:40] but it is, yeah, he knows about suffering. But, uh, I think, um- Go, maybe talk about the sermon. What, what, what, what, what about the sermon? [00:32:50]

[00:32:50] GARY: Uh, it's, uh, oh, I forget the term. Empirical or im- impreccable. Impre- I'm saying it wrong, I'm butchering it. But anyways, it's basically like a [00:33:00] lament, right? About, I would've assumed it was a Psalm of King David where, and it was basically the sermon series is, you know, the weird and wonderful Bible.

[00:33:07] Just definitely- Mm ... unique things in the Bible that we don't necessarily [00:33:10] always talk about. And it's basically about, you know, the Psalm where he just says, "Hey, punish my enemies," right? Gouge out their eyes. Like, you know, and just, uh, he's in such a dark spot. [00:33:20] And, um, I don't think suffering is acknowledged in a healthy enough way-

[00:33:24] KYLE: Yeah

[00:33:25] GARY: by people. And I think, there again, I hold it on both hands where I think it's really healthy. I think that [00:33:30] most people's character is built the most in that. I think it's meant to teach us things. It's meant to bring us to the end of ourselves.

[00:33:35] KYLE: Mm.

[00:33:36] GARY: While at the same time, obviously, we should be able to be very, you know, as Christians, we should be [00:33:40] empathetic and very caring to people that are-

[00:33:42] KYLE: I was

[00:33:42] GARY: interesting that you say that

[00:33:42] living in that. And most people make everything okay. Like, it's-

[00:33:45] KYLE: Yeah, I was gonna say that, and it's be- uh, I sometimes wonder why people have a hard time [00:33:50] listening. Like, when someone's talking, why, why, why is there an impulse to respond so quickly and, or to talk about yourself or whatever. And I think part of, one of the many reasons probably, is that [00:34:00] when someone's sharing suffering or discomfort of some kind, they need, have a need to fix it because they, it's hard for them to sit in the discomfort.

[00:34:06] But a lot of times, um, just some- just hearing it, [00:34:10] that's it.

[00:34:12] GARY: Yeah. And I don't, my experience has been, and I s- I do it too, definitely, the s- the problem-solving thing. But my experience has been that [00:34:20] people just long for people that can just listen. And I mean, I don't, there again, I don't do it that well, so I'm not the person.

[00:34:25] But, um-

[00:34:28] KYLE: Yeah, so anyway, to the, to [00:34:30] the young guy still, 'cause I don't think it's more than just work, I would say, like- ... the expectations of, of, uh, what, what world we live in and that this is not about us and to, [00:34:40] like, find a purpose outside yourself, which I believe is found in Jesus Christ.

[00:34:43] GARY: I, I, I think it's way...

[00:34:44] I, when you, I mean, you're, I get that you don't wanna talk about the explanation for it, but I really f- For what? Well, but why [00:34:50] people are like that. But I firmly

[00:34:52] KYLE: believe it comes- No, I do, I do Okay. Just wanna answer the question first. Fair.

[00:34:53] GARY: It's fair.

[00:34:54] KYLE: So- Like, that was the question. I don't wanna say this is like- Just go

[00:34:57] GARY: Pat,

[00:34:57] KYLE: just explain it away

[00:34:58] GARY: a question

[00:34:58] KYLE: and, and- Explain

[00:34:59] GARY: it

[00:34:59] KYLE: away ... and, [00:35:00] uh, and then say, well, the people that are actually in that spot and wondering don't wanna hear more about the reasons- Why they're there ... why they're there. I think a lot of them understand. I [00:35:10] think-

[00:35:10] GARY: I think people excuse the fact that people assume that the brokenness of family doesn't affect things or, but it really does.

[00:35:16] It's really, like, there again, obviously there's a lot of

[00:35:18] KYLE: reasons for it. So you mean, so maybe [00:35:20] talk to about acknowledging part, 'cause maybe I'm going, uh, thinking you're gonna go on a different angle than, than, um, you are, but you're saying go and deal with those things?

[00:35:28] GARY: I know, I think mostly just acknowledge [00:35:30] it.

[00:35:30] I don't think p- people realize, like if, if you brought our, our society and you talked about at a public level and asked about, hey, why are people in that state? Yeah, they would [00:35:40] talk about the things you're talking about, but that's the symptom. Like, the hopelessness is the symptom. Yes. The thing, the f- I would agree.

[00:35:46] Yes ... all those things are kinda like, but the real root of it comes [00:35:50] from like the foundation of what's your life like at home, and do you have a mom and a dad, and are your mom and dad fulfilling the roles that they are meant to do? And what are those roles? And like-

[00:35:58] KYLE: Yes ...

[00:35:58] GARY: there again, that is taboo in [00:36:00] our, in our- Yes

[00:36:00] in our, in our society, and I get why, 'cause like nobody wants to be shamed.

[00:36:05] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:36:05] GARY: And we don't wanna shame people, and obviously a lot of people, they're not even there because of their own choice. They literally just [00:36:10] made a bad choice one time, and now they're living with it for the rest of their life. So like, I can be gracious to all that and see that, but I'm still saying there's a consequence, and studies have shown over and over [00:36:20] how important it is for people to have a healthy role model of a father and a mother.

[00:36:23] And so there again, that's, that's literally countercultural in our society. You're not allowed to talk about it. It's-

[00:36:28] KYLE: And that's 100% way, [00:36:30] way more that than Trudeau's crazy taxes and spending- Yeah, or

[00:36:33] GARY: any of it ... and cost of living. It's just literally like if

[00:36:35] KYLE: you- It's, it's the hu- biggest part of it.

[00:36:36] GARY: Yeah.

[00:36:36] Yeah. Well, it's actually very aligned with that weird, uh, reel you [00:36:40] sent me on Facebook.

[00:36:41] KYLE: Oh, I laughed so hard.

[00:36:42] GARY: Just today. I don't know if that's true or not, or if the guy just pulled that out of his rear end, but like-

[00:36:46] KYLE: Oh, that was total, that was- Okay ... that was a-

[00:36:48] GARY: Kyle sent me a reel that was [00:36:50] basically- You

[00:36:50] KYLE: gonna play it?

[00:36:51] GARY: No. I'll summarize it in less than 30 seconds. It's

[00:36:53] KYLE: so funny. It's two, it's a minute, it's 50 seconds long. Oh, that's-[00:37:00]

[00:37:00] GARY: To, uh, to talk. I was just calling to let you know that- Oh, that's not the one. That's not even very real. It's the real about the serial killers and the generational trauma.

[00:37:06] KYLE: Oh, I didn't watch that one.

[00:37:08] GARY: You sent it to me. You sent it to me. [00:37:10] Man, you were on drugs, man, and you were sending a lot of stuff in a day if you don't remember sending that.

[00:37:14] It came today t- on my Facebook Messenger. Anyways, it was basically- I got, I got 20 minutes today so ... about some guy in a, some guy in [00:37:20] a p- prison warden at some jail, and he wanted to do a deep dive about all the people that were in, in jail. They took all these inmates, and they all traced back to, like, the same- Oh, yes

[00:37:28] grandfather from six [00:37:30] generations ago. Yes. And then it started comparing to Jonathan Edwards- Yes ... and it went over his whole family- Yes ... and how successful his... And there again, I hate these gene- I, I wish

[00:37:36] KYLE: I could play that because I can't now 'cause

[00:37:38] GARY: I'm actually out of time. 'Cause you're out of time. Yeah.

[00:37:39] But- [00:37:40] Anyways, I can play it, but I won't.

[00:37:41] KYLE: Yes, it is beautiful. Go ahead.

[00:37:43] GARY: Um, so it's just this idea of like, hey, how we parent do- does matter. Yes. Obviously, there's much [00:37:50] grace. Obviously, there's exceptions. I always have to feel I have to put the caveats 'cause everybody wants to be, you know- Yeah ... if they're doing phenomenal they wanna take credit for it, and if they're doing horrible they wanna blame it on somebody, and I- Mm-hmm

[00:37:59] but, but I do [00:38:00] think it is, like- Uh ... generational. You see it. You see it in families in our communities that when you see God-fearing parents and people doing the right things, it's like, hey, they're blessed for it, right? And-

[00:38:08] KYLE: Yeah ...

[00:38:08] GARY: and you can see that play out in [00:38:10] families, right?

[00:38:10] KYLE: So- And eventually you'll see if it was just a farce 'cause it'll leak.

[00:38:13] GARY: And it'll leak. It'll all blow up, and it does, and that's really sad too. But I just feel like this idea of, hey, if you see that hopelessness in our, in the next [00:38:20] generation or people coming, there's lots of 18-year-olds I know that are just thankful and feel blessed and see great opportunities. Yes. And they're literally growing up in the same community.

[00:38:29] [00:38:30] They just have different environments that- Yes ... they're surrounded by, right? So, you know, and I would argue that actually the darker the times, the more opportunity there is. That's how I feel. Yes. Because the [00:38:40] more people that are in that painted spot, they're not even looking for it. Yeah. And there's, my experience has been- But-

[00:38:43] that there's opportunity-

[00:38:45] KYLE: Yeah ...

[00:38:45] GARY: everywhere. So-

[00:38:46] KYLE: And when you say opportunity, I always think of that as almost a negative word, like that it's a [00:38:50] taking word, rather than, like, still viewing it as, like, how can I help? There's so many opportunities to-

[00:38:56] GARY: You're always helping somebody ... be, be, be- You never, you can never...

[00:38:58] P- capitalism is [00:39:00] amazing, 'cause it always takes care of every angle. I sh- I was just talking to Julius about this today. Like, greed will always get wiped out in, in a real capitalist world. Yes. 'Cause there'll always be someone else that can come grab some of the [00:39:10] pie. So you can never, you can only gouge for a certain amount of times.

[00:39:13] Mm. And some businesses get away with it for decades, but eventually someone gets wise and comes along and takes care of it.

[00:39:18] KYLE: Yeah. So- So I, I would just spec- specifically [00:39:20] specify to the 18-year-old, it's not about, like, it's about giving more than you take, like, as an attitude towards life and business.

[00:39:29] [00:39:30] Because if you don't, you start, when you're, when you're a taker, I think it, like, corrupts almost. You'll never,

[00:39:34] GARY: no, you'll never get anywhere. That too, yeah. But if you are... No, you'll never get anywhere. If you are going to work and you, and you [00:39:40] are making somebody's life better, you will perpetually get rewarded with more money and more responsibility.

[00:39:45] Yes. And you will, like, people can't not do- The

[00:39:46] KYLE: attitude is not serving self, it's serving others.

[00:39:48] GARY: Yeah, but there again, that will just get [00:39:50] flushed out, 'cause everybody can see it. People are wise.

[00:39:52] KYLE: No, I think there's people that run businesses that don't have faith, and they are doing it just for self-serving capitalistic purposes.[00:40:00]

[00:40:00] And I'm saying that that is empty, and that you can make money that way. A lot of people do. I'm just saying that to the hopeless 18-year-old, as you're going forward, do it with [00:40:10] purpose and add real value to whatever you do. Make, if you can make lots of money doing that, by all means.

[00:40:16] GARY: Most people can't handle making lots of money.

[00:40:18] KYLE: I'm just saying.

[00:40:18] GARY: Yeah. Most [00:40:20] 18-year-olds anyways. Do

[00:40:20] KYLE: you, what do you think of my, what I'm trying to, like, specify here? You think I'm being too nitty-gritty?

[00:40:25] GARY: I just think if you talk to hopeless people- Ooh, that was good. Yeah, I did. Speaking of nitty-gritty, [00:40:30] you guys know me. I'm frequently wrong, but never in doubt.

[00:40:32] In one area where even I have enough self-awareness to know my limitations is anything involving tools. I'm not handy. If something breaks at my house, I'll call [00:40:40] six or seven people before I consider fixing it myself. And honestly, I think more men need this level of self-awareness, because there's always that moment where you look at a tile job and think, "How hard could that really [00:40:50] be?"

[00:40:50] Very hard, apparently. You spend all Saturday watching YouTube, and by 6:00 or 7:00 at night your wife is asking why the shower somehow looks worse than it did when you started. Just call Nick at [00:41:00] Nitty Gritty Tiles. Nick and his crew do phenomenal work. Custom showers, heated floors, back splashes, fireplaces.

[00:41:06] If it involves tile, these guys know what they're doing. Nick's also a great [00:41:10] guy. Quiet, big beard, and he'd probably tile your entire bathroom before he willingly makes small talk with you Which I actually respect. I could talk to six or seven complete strangers about something I [00:41:20] know absolutely nothing about and somehow leave with all of them thinking I'm an expert.

[00:41:23] Nick just shuts up and really does good tile work. So if you're in Chilliwack or Abbotsford area and have a tile project, don't spend six or [00:41:30] seven days convincing yourself you can do it. Call Nick at Nitty Gritty Tiles. His number's 604-703-4148. That's Nitty Gritty Tiles, [00:41:40] 604-703-4148

[00:41:43] KYLE: What,

[00:41:43] GARY: what is your feedback from

[00:41:45] Nick also went on the podcast and shared his whole life story-

[00:41:48] KYLE: That's right ...

[00:41:48] GARY: last week that came out.

[00:41:49] KYLE: [00:41:50] Yes. Haven't got any feedback because '

[00:41:52] GARY: Cause nobody's listened to it except me and Marie.

[00:41:54] KYLE: Yeah, 'cause it hasn't come out yet on the day of this recording. It comes out tomorrow.

[00:41:59] GARY: Okay.

[00:41:59] KYLE: Or- [00:42:00]

[00:42:00] GARY: Yeah, yeah ...

[00:42:00] KYLE: yeah, tomorrow.

[00:42:00] Yeah.

[00:42:01] GARY: Yeah.

[00:42:01] KYLE: Yeah. Tomorrow for us. I listened to it. Last week, Wednesday for you. I,

[00:42:04] GARY: I, I, I listened to it. Anyways, if you're hearing this, it's live and- You finished it? ... you can go listen to it. Yeah, I did.

[00:42:09] KYLE: Oh, good. Good. Yeah. [00:42:10] Now I can ask you what you think, 'cause I wasn't gonna ask you halfway through.

[00:42:12] GARY: Yeah, that's fair.

[00:42:13] Um- That's fair. '

[00:42:14] KYLE: Cause you even asked me, which I ironically thought, "Oh good, Kyle, that you didn't ask," um, does it get [00:42:20] better?

[00:42:20] GARY: I

[00:42:21] KYLE: asked you that. 'Cause you listened halfway. Yeah. Yeah, it was too dark. When you listened to it, you were like, "Does it get better?"

[00:42:23] GARY: It was too dark.

[00:42:24] KYLE: Yeah. I think there's actually a few podcasts I have that people stop halfway 'cause they're just like, "It's too dark."

[00:42:29] But [00:42:30] I want to end with the stories that have hope at the end. So this is a lot of hope, don't you think?

[00:42:34] GARY: Yeah, and I think what ... And this is, um, this would [00:42:40] be when- ... this would be where I'm, uh, really encouraged, and I've been encouraged in my life by people. People just really [00:42:50] value people being authentic, and Nick was being authentic.

[00:42:52] Yeah. And so, yes, it was raw and it was probably-

[00:42:55] KYLE: But it talks about- ... a little crass, but ... forgiveness. I learned, I learned from it. I, like, it was actually quite an emotional [00:43:00] ride for me to have that conversation with him, but the power of forgiveness is really big, and also how something that you and I talked about at lunch last week is that you can build resentments back up on people [00:43:10] you've already forgiven in the past, and that you need to re-forgive, and that you were telling me that you had, like, really done that to me and you were really pissed, and

[00:43:16] No, I'm kidding, but-

[00:43:17] GARY: That's the most likely. The most likely is that you have to forgive the [00:43:20] same people over and over.

[00:43:20] KYLE: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:43:23] GARY: That's pretty common.

[00:43:23] KYLE: And it's, uh, it's not a abstract thing. Like, it's an, uh, an action you can take. I remember being in a group [00:43:30] setting at a church one time, and someone asked, like, um, "Well, I think I've forgiven this person," and be like, "Practically, what does that mean?

[00:43:37] What, what mean forgiven them?" But it's an actual, [00:43:40] for me, it's very much the act of, like, praying out loud, confessing to God how I believe this person has hurt me, [00:43:50] and saying, I, I use the f- the, the, the prayer from freedom session, that format, but it's basically saying, "I, I give that over to you, and I, and I forgive them, and, [00:44:00] um, I just, I feel a lot of hurt, and I give this hurt over to you."

[00:44:02] And just actually doing that practically is f- the forgiveness work. It's not like an abstract thing. You just wait till you [00:44:10] get a feeling that you wanna do it. You never wanna do it. It's obedience, and I was forgetting that.

[00:44:19] GARY: Hmm.

[00:44:19] KYLE: [00:44:20] Which is, um, uh, humbling to, to re- re- realize 'cause you just ... Yeah, it's, it's easy to just understand a lot of these things theoretically and [00:44:30] then als- and then n- not necessarily always do them in your own life.

[00:44:38] GARY: My experience has been [00:44:40] that everywhere from church leadership all the way down into our, to what? Christian community, we have a lot of theory and not a lot of practice.

[00:44:49] KYLE: Yeah. A [00:44:50]

[00:44:50] GARY: lot of doctrine, a lot of... And they're- Yeah ... all good things, all important, but boy, if it's not playing out practically in our lives, what are we doing, right,

[00:44:57] KYLE: man?

[00:44:57] You're lying.

[00:44:59] GARY: Yeah. [00:45:00] Just like what's the point, man, if you can't like... Yeah. I don't

[00:45:03] KYLE: know. I remember actually, um, you know who Dave Portnoy is?

[00:45:06] GARY: Heard the name, but no.

[00:45:07] KYLE: He owns Barstool Sports. Not a guy that I [00:45:10] recommend or you should follow or that I think is- Okay ... necessarily a role model, but I've watched a bunch of his stuff.

[00:45:15] He has pizza reviews and things that I, I thought were-

[00:45:17] GARY: Did you just say pizza reviews?

[00:45:18] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:45:19] GARY: Okay.

[00:45:19] KYLE: Like, [00:45:20] like, but not a small, uh, pizza reviewer. It doesn't matter. Either way- ... in all the content that I had seen him in, he always seemed like he could just say and [00:45:30] do whatever he wanted. Like, he didn't have to, like, he wasn't scared there was a camera there.

[00:45:33] He was just himself. I, like I re- And I was just like, "Ah-" Or

[00:45:36] GARY: that was the feeling you got.

[00:45:37] KYLE: That was the feeling I got. Okay. And I always thought, I remember saying it to Stefan [00:45:40] years ago, I was like, "I want that." Like, how do you, how do you get that? But I- Oh, you're

[00:45:43] GARY: doing that now. It's a problem.

[00:45:45] KYLE: But I wa-

[00:45:46] GARY: It's a problem

[00:45:46] KYLE: but I wasn't doing that for a long time, and I longed for that. Are you

[00:45:49] GARY: sure?

[00:45:49] KYLE: [00:45:50] Yeah.

[00:45:50] GARY: Okay.

[00:45:50] KYLE: Most of my life I wasn't.

[00:45:52] GARY: Okay.

[00:45:52] KYLE: No, I was like, I was, I was living a double life a lot of times. I wasn't-

[00:45:55] GARY: Oh, I see ...

[00:45:56] KYLE: o- open about who I was, and I was like- I see.

[00:45:58] GARY: There's parts of your life that you were not being

[00:45:59] KYLE: truthful.

[00:45:59] I would've looked [00:46:00] really good at church and said the right things and, you know, privately should not, you know, like sideways.

[00:46:05] GARY: Shouldn't have been saying anything. Yeah. Yeah. And all that.

[00:46:07] KYLE: Um- I can

[00:46:07] GARY: identify ...

[00:46:08] KYLE: and so that, that, that freedom is [00:46:10] awesome.

[00:46:12] GARY: Be like Kyle and Dave Portnoy. No.

[00:46:14] KYLE: No, that's so bad.

[00:46:16] GARY: Sorry, don't-

[00:46:16] KYLE: Be

[00:46:17] GARY: real.

[00:46:17] Just be honest. Yeah.

[00:46:18] KYLE: Be real. [00:46:20] Um, I had one more question for you.

[00:46:23] GARY: Are we gonna talk about the BC deficit? You don't care. Kyle did not wanna rec- record [00:46:30] today, but we have a lot of holidays coming up- Yes ... between you and myself,

[00:46:33] KYLE: so. Yes. Hopefully next week's recording, uh, Travis Decock will have joined us.

[00:46:36] He's a fr- a friend of mine, um, got to know him through, [00:46:40] uh, coaching, and, uh, he's gonna come hang out for a couple days at our place, so.

[00:46:43] GARY: When is he coming?

[00:46:44] KYLE: Thursday to Friday.

[00:46:45] GARY: Next week. This

[00:46:46] KYLE: week. Are you

[00:46:46] GARY: back?

[00:46:47] KYLE: This week.

[00:46:47] GARY: Oh, this week.

[00:46:48] KYLE: Oh. This week.

[00:46:48] GARY: Okay. Nice. And [00:46:50]

[00:46:51] KYLE: then we'll leave Saturday for Barnards Landing, which should be awesome.

[00:46:54] No phone week

[00:46:58] GARY: Okay. I had all kinds [00:47:00] of, uh, we had a lot of interesting clips on here that people would appreciate, right? Your forest fire clip.

[00:47:05] KYLE: Okay. Yeah, I can't play any of it, so.

[00:47:06] GARY: Okay. Or the, uh, the other [00:47:10] interesting thing was the, uh, the two, uh, NBA players that are transitioning to be women so they can play in the WNBA.

[00:47:15] Oh,

[00:47:15] KYLE: yeah, I seen that. That was hilarious. That was hilarious. [00:47:20] Love that.

[00:47:21] GARY: I always struggle with stuff like that. Like, I th- I think it's funny too, um, and I think it makes sense. I think that, like, [00:47:30] the pendulum's swinging for sure. People are waking up and saying, "Hey, we're destroying women's sports with guys that-

[00:47:34] KYLE: Mm

[00:47:35] GARY: are struggling and whatever, to varying degrees." Like- Yeah ... some are literally just struggling with mental health [00:47:40] issues. Others are just really- Yeah ... wanting to play and compete at a level, and they're realizing they can do that. Um- But they've basically called their bluff [00:47:50] now, right? Like, you got two ex-NBA players that are, you know, 6'8" or whatever, phenomenal basketball players.

[00:47:55] Yeah. They were decent. They weren't great NBA players. Um, but they basically said- They [00:48:00]

[00:48:00] KYLE: were able to make it to the NBA, so they must be pretty good.

[00:48:02] GARY: Yeah. They played games in the NBA. So they're gonna be, uh, now transitioning, they said, and they're basically just-

[00:48:07] KYLE: Only during the games, they said. They, how they worded it.[00:48:10]

[00:48:10] GARY: Okay.

[00:48:10] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:48:11] GARY: Yeah. So it's just this idea, and they're, they're playing the shtick all the way through and saying- Yeah ... all the things that have ver- ver- verbatim been, like, you know, quoted to us as utter BS- [00:48:20] Yeah ... that all of us would agree is we're just sick of hearing- Yeah ... this complete BS. So now you have, you know, the WNBA creating, uh, committees trying to decide what a woman is, and of course, Matt Walsh already answered that on his [00:48:30] documentary, which you can watch.

[00:48:31] But it's just the idea of like, hey, it's only-

[00:48:35] KYLE: What's amazing to me about this- Yeah ... whole thing, kind of a random different angle, is how, like, when you [00:48:40] watch Sportsnet or TSN, any of the sports things, in the last three or five years, all of a sudden now they, like, televise the women's basketball and women's hockey, um, [00:48:50] when before they didn't.

[00:48:51] Um, and now it g- it's getting a following and, and it's entertaining and... But it's literally getting a following and it's becoming entertaining 'cause they chose to put it in front of, [00:49:00] on pe- on the TV, uh, on the s- on Sportsnet, whatever else like that. And that must have been an intentional decision, 'cause I don't think they were necessarily leagues that were making any money.

[00:49:07] Um, I think it was just more done from the, like, [00:49:10] women, this, um, left-wing

[00:49:12] GARY: agenda model. Do you know what the viewership is of the WNBA?

[00:49:15] KYLE: No, I don't know right now. Okay. But I know it's been mocked plenty.

[00:49:18] GARY: Okay, okay.

[00:49:19] KYLE: That they-

[00:49:19] GARY: I [00:49:20] have no

[00:49:20] KYLE: clue. I'm just asking ... it's, it's basically nothing compared to-

[00:49:21] GARY: To the NBA

[00:49:22] KYLE: the NBA. But, but they are, it's getting eyeballs because of s- co- controversies b- of course, between players, but also, um, it's just [00:49:30] being highlighted. Like if I go, it's being promoted on TSN and things like that, and I'm thinking to myself, like, how is that the one that's making money? I doubt that's the one that...

[00:49:36] But e- either way, um, when the media [00:49:40] or any news organizations chooses out of their own desire to, what to put in front of you, that's where people are gonna start believing and following. And I think we forget [00:49:50] that with news especially. It's a for-pro- these are for-profit entities with an agenda, and so they're gonna put in front of you what they want you to know [00:50:00] and hear.

[00:50:00] That's everything. That's the same thing with this podcast. Um, I'm not ... Right? Um, and so to think about that as you're consuming.

[00:50:09] GARY: [00:50:10] NBA, sorry, we need to correct that. The WNBA has roughly 1 point, 1.3 per game, million people per game watching.

[00:50:17] KYLE: Yeah, yeah. I think the- And the

[00:50:18] GARY: NBA's [00:50:20] 1.8, so it's actually not that far behind.

[00:50:21] KYLE: Okay.

[00:50:21] GARY: That's awesome. That's, I didn't realize- So

[00:50:23] KYLE: three years ago, though, when it, three or four years ago when it started- Yeah, it was

[00:50:25] GARY: a lot. It was in the hundreds of thousands probably.

[00:50:26] KYLE: Yeah, yeah. 'Cause that, then, 'cause then, like, Caitlin-

[00:50:29] GARY: Clark ...

[00:50:29] KYLE: Clark, [00:50:30] whatever, phenomenal player. And then there's, uh, there's some, like, um- players on the other teams where there's racism getting involved, and there's like that whole, and they're fighting on the court and stuff like that, [00:50:40] so that gets eyeballs, right?

[00:50:41] You say something crazy. If I say something crazy right

[00:50:43] GARY: now- Really what people, what people really wanna watch is just the UFC.

[00:50:45] KYLE: Yeah, exactly.

[00:50:46] GARY: They just actually just wanna watch violence. Yes. We're still like the Romans, right? Yes, we are. Get the-

[00:50:49] KYLE: All [00:50:50] of us ...

[00:50:50] GARY: get the Colosseum out.

[00:50:51] KYLE: Yeah, let's go.

[00:50:52] GARY: Yeah. Anyways, I think what happens, and I've said this before about, you know, even First Nations stuff, like, ultimately what happens [00:51:00] is we end up, the pendulum swings, and people go far the other way.

[00:51:04] And now you have people that, like, you know, and this is just my opinion, 'cause I actually- Mm ... don't have a personal relationship with anybody that's, [00:51:10] you know, calls themselves transgender. But you basically would have people where, like, hey, now you're, you're struggling. You know, we've completely gone away from reality where sex is no longer your [00:51:20] gender, which is just a disaster, and now it's like, hey, now we're all gonna start making fun of these people and, and creating, you know, this, this animosity and mocking, which, which isn't Christian either, so- [00:51:30] No

[00:51:30] like, I just think, hey, it's

[00:51:31] KYLE: like- Yeah, I res- uh, I, and it's easy for us to do because it's more of the conservative, politically conservative response to see the mockery. And it, and, and there's [00:51:40] a, a practical element of it that make, that makes sense. But I, um, I was reading this week in- Well,

[00:51:44] GARY: and people would even argue, "Oh, it deserves to be mocked."

[00:51:47] And, and maybe even that would be my heart, heart posture [00:51:50] unfortunately, but really not. Like, hey, we're, we're talking about human beings- Well, we have, we're called to go

[00:51:52] KYLE: Christ's way.

[00:51:53] GARY: Yeah.

[00:51:54] KYLE: Right? Which is not the world's way.

[00:51:55] GARY: Gracious, gracious love.

[00:51:56] KYLE: I was reading 2 Corinthians- Yeah ... in this week, and it said, like, "Don't go the way that the [00:52:00] world goes."

[00:52:00] Yeah. Go like, which is forgiving, and these people are, a lot of these

[00:52:03] GARY: people- Hurting ... are hurting. Hurting, hurting, hurting. But anyways, it was just, you know, when he [00:52:10] said his... Yeah, I'm not even gonna repeat it. It's too crass, but you can watch the videos.

[00:52:13] KYLE: Yeah. Uh, sorry, Jonathan, uh, but we're not gonna go for two hours.

[00:52:19] He always, [00:52:20] feedback from the listener, he wants us to go long.

[00:52:22] GARY: Okay. We have a lot of other stuff. I wanted to talk about the BC deficit, but we'll talk about that- We can talk about it ... in our next recording.

[00:52:28] KYLE: Get, people don't watch the end piece [00:52:30] anyway, so go ahead.

[00:52:32] GARY: No, no, we're good. We're good. I gotta go. I gotta catch a ferry, eh?

[00:52:35] Oh. 8:15 ferry tonight.

[00:52:36] KYLE: 5:00. Oh, it's 5:00.

[00:52:37] GARY: Yeah. Okay. Go time.

[00:52:38] KYLE: Oh. Okay, guys, [00:52:40] thank

[00:52:40] GARY: you. Have a great week. See ya. Bye. Sound like, felt like that was [00:52:50] verba-

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My Dad Beat Me Daily — I Still Chose to Forgive Him | Nick Zemora - Episode 57

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Stop Work From Controlling Your Life

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