July 23, 2025

John MacArthur, Mark Driscoll & The Christian Celebrity Problem | The Briefcase and The Barn - Ep 53

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Kyle: [00:00:00] How's your scia? Better or worse? Worse. Worse. Got a, the doc this morning got stronger pain me than even t threes. Okay. Opiates not good. And uh, they're very addictive

Gary: and, uh, I don't have negative personality. Are we recording?

Kyle: No.

Gary: We should be like, I don't ever predictive personality.

I kept the cheap coffee. Oh man. It's gonna be a problem.

Kyle: Just throw that phone over there. I hate that thing, man. You sound like my wife. Yeah. Makes sense.

Gary: Makes sense.

Kyle: Heavenly father, um, before we record here, I ask that you would bless our recording today. Um, that'd be for your glory and for the good of people listening.

Mm-hmm. And for our good. Mm-hmm. Um. And, uh, guide us by your [00:01:00] spirit, um, and help us to be humble. In Jesus' name, amen. Welcome back guys to another episode of the Briefcase in the Barn with me and Gary. A series of furious, like curious show where we talk about business, life, Christianity, and more. Gary's back after a week away.

Yep. Good trip. Good trip. Good family trip. You get back

Gary: Saturday or Monday? Saturday. Saturday. Saturday. I didn't see you in church though. No, no. The week before we were, uh, we went to church in Norville. My parents were up there, so they came with us. That was nice. And not church. Not allowed to say, 'cause my parents came with me.

Kyle: Oh, so they're not What was that your name?

Gary: Pardon? I don't understand. Explain this. My dad said he'd come to church with me, but I just wasn't allowed to say what kind of church we

Kyle: went to. Why not?

Gary: That's just what he said, so I'll respect that. What, okay. What, what was your father and your mother? What was the service like?

Uh, it was pretty interesting. Lot of people waving flags. Waving flags? Yeah, waving. What kind of [00:02:00] flags? Flags? Canada

Kyle: flags. No,

Gary: no, it's in the US right?

Kyle: Okay.

Gary: Nationalistic church. Oh, American flags. Yeah. They were waving American flags in church. No, it was just so funny. They were not, I'm, I'm being, uh, facetious, but they, uh, it was interesting because they.

Uh, he talked about being like a Christian national nationalism and how that was dangerous. Oh, okay.

Kyle: Which

Gary: I agreed with. And then full on later in the service went on like a rant about, oh. About like literally mentioning political parties and the whole nine yards. It's pretty interesting. So cool. Yeah, lots of, uh, great church, lots of, um, re I go there often.

There's lots of, uh, drug, uh. Like recovering drug addicts there and stuff. Hmm. So that was, that was pretty, uh, right in chat with a few of them. I fit right in, barely recovering, but, uh, definitely a drug addict at heart. And then the, uh, people that came and cleaned up the beach at the place that we were staying, same guys that were at church teaching Sunday school and [00:03:00] stuff.

So like kids were helping them rake up the garbage on the beach and it was just kind of cool. Do you relax

Kyle: or do you work most of the week?

Gary: I relax. Yeah. I don't really relax ever, but like, whatever relaxing means to you, I mean. I dunno, what does that mean?

Kyle: Relaxing to me? Yeah. When you're unplugged from your daily life.

Yeah, I know. I don't do that.

Gary: Fair enough. No, but I mean, I was on my phone way less than I normally would be, and uh, so that was good. And, uh, we had a bunch of, like, my parents came up, so that was awesome. We hung out with them for the weekend and then they went home and then, uh, a bunch of young people came up.

My niece and her friend, a girl, a friend of ours, they work for us. So hung out with them. They were super helpful. And then, uh. My buddy, uh, my friend Julius there, came out for one night, two nights. So cool. Awesome. And he had just jumped out of an airplane, so pretty high still. Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle: He didn't call me, talk to me about it.

He said it was great.

Gary: Okay. Before he

Kyle: went, it wasn't so great.

Gary: Okay. And I listened to the. I did manage to listen to the whole thing in bits and pieces of last week's recording, [00:04:00] which Oh, okay. Yeah. So what do you think of that? Yeah, I need to, uh, lower my voice a little bit and, uh, do the real t and t impersonation.

That was really weird when I, I do voice. You wanted to shoo that

Kyle: first. Why? Uh, I thought it was totally fine.

Gary: Yeah, that was, I thought it was fine as well. I thought maybe I could do my Matt Keen impersonation and talk about how people can, yeah. Anyways, I could mock him. I won't mock theology. He gets really offended.

Um.

Kyle: We did throw well on way though. We recorded an episode that we're not gonna publish.

Gary: I never listened to it. You sent it to me last night. Yeah. Have you listened to it? No,

Kyle: but Matt did and he said it was a disaster.

Gary: Disaster should be banished from existing that Patreon only. On that note, did we say inappropriate things or why is it so bad?

I dunno, I haven't watched it back yet. Okay. Why did he say it was bad? I, he, no feedback. Just don't ever put it in, don't publish it publicly.

Kyle: Okay. Fair enough. I did have someone reach out though. I mean, 'cause I mentioned a couple weeks ago how much the podcast costs and he wanted to support the show, so he called me and, uh, just sent, I asked for my email, so you send me Etransfer.

Gary: Oh, that was very generous.

Kyle: [00:05:00] Um, yeah, so if there's more people that wanna support, I'll put a link of the donation, uh, in a description. Uh, that would be hugely appreciated. Okay. Because I'm thinking about shutting this thing down. Just to, well just change it, right? Like, no, just to focus on the, focus on the coaching.

Only. This doesn't make any money. Right. So, yeah.

Gary: Do you like

Kyle: podcast?

Gary: Yeah. Or just start your own podcast. Yeah. That's what you would do. Do that too. That's what I would do. Yeah. A Gary Bar show. Yeah. Couldn't help yourself. Legend, his own mind. No, I'm done. I'm, I'm done. Starting anything for a while. Okay.

Cannot handle what I have going on. So at least for like a couple weeks, at least for today. It's been a good day. Sold another piece of equipment today. Had a lot, sold a lot of equipment lately at tractor dealership, so that's good. See that John McArthur passed away. Yeah, I know. All the churches that, uh, practice auto worship are really upset about It drives me crazy, man.

What part? Just like, sorry, it's too strong, but the Oh, just how people put people on such a pedestal. It's so dangerous. Yeah. Like John MacArthur, I don't know the [00:06:00] man, but probably a godly man books from him in our house. But just when people make. It about the person. It's like, uh, this is, there verses about this veers into very dangerous, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's

Kyle: like, yeah, I'm sure there's people that idolize him, but I, and I, but I also know there's a, a huge swath amount of people that have been super blessed by his preaching. Totally. And, uh, his books and stuff like that.

Gary: It's just that people, churches, like they just align with his church, like they'll follow, you know what I mean?

And it's like, ah, is that being spirit led when you're like, oh. That's kind of what everyone sort of does, right? Calvinism? Well, that was the example I was gonna give, but that was just a derogatory, I was gonna say, you know, he is to a church that I know in Chillowak. As to the church that I, Calvin was to the church that I came from, where it's just like this as if this person can do no wrong or everything they believe is spot on.

Well, like obviously amazing. No, but if you

Kyle: actually

Gary: listen to what he says,

Kyle: not what the people around him say or the people that idolize him, say, but actually what John McCarthur taught, I super appreciate him for how he just sticks to the Bible. Like he [00:07:00] taught what the Bible said. Is that what a

Gary: show is called?

Back to the Bible? Or is that a different guy? Uh, I think, I don't know. Okay. There's one of

Kyle: them that had a radio. Uh,

Gary: yeah.

Kyle: But he, yeah, he really like, and he shaped a lot of people that way. Like a lot of like, 'cause he had a seminary as well where just first by verse, chapter by chapter. And that's really how he preach.

Just, just go through the Bible. Yeah. And that's, uh, and he was very alone in that when he started, uh, 'cause I think he passed their deck for 40 or 50 years. And, uh, he thought he was kind of like one of the only ones that did that. And he just refused to do anything else. Was he a Baptist or not?

Gary: Mm-hmm.

Okay. Reformed Baptist.

Kyle: I don't really know what that exactly means, what the term best.

Gary: Was he He

Kyle: was reformed though. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Like he, yeah, so he, as he associated, uh, later, he came in touch with like Archie Spro and, uh,

Gary: okay. I heard a debate, debate with the two of them, I think. Yeah. Bism Baptism.

Yeah, bism. I've

Kyle: watched that one on YouTube. I remember, I remember my dad telling me

Gary: did not, it did not enlighten me. Okay.

Kyle: I remember my dad telling me he watched that and he, and so MacArthur went first.

Gary: Yes.

Kyle: And, and basically it wasn't really debate. They basically had both, they just shared their view. I mean, very respectfully.

Both shared [00:08:00] a half hour. I'm there for you. But I remember him saying after MacArthur shared, he was like, oh. But then Spool shared his half hour and then he was, then he was good again. Made sense. Yeah. Yeah. Spro too. Pardon? I listened to stuff. Yeah. Who, who, what pastor would you say would would've been most influential in your life?

Hmm. Like right now? Or in general, like for me it'd be John Piper. Definitely had, has been the biggest impact.

Gary: I would say. A combination of some, I wouldn't pick one. Okay. Pick, pick. Probably between Mark Driscoll and I'm scared to say his name 'cause it's so controversial now, but Matt Chandler, mark Driscoll, and Timothy Keller.

Okay.

Kyle: Mark Driscoll's back again. And he's always on my Facebook feed and reacting to reels. Yeah, I know other people that do that. It's really weird. It

Gary: bothers me. Um. I was like, it was in oh 8, 0 7, somewhere in that period when I started listening to him. And, uh, his church was [00:09:00] obviously exploding in Seattle.

There's a whole podcast on the collapse of that church. It's pretty sad. It's like a, I have P-T-S-D-I think I said this already on the podcast when I watched that, but listened to that podcast. But, um, he just like hammered young men, hammered men to be pure. Like, and there again, like he was considered probably a male chauvinist and a lot of inappropriate things by certain swaths of people, but he would've

Kyle: been like a Christian version of Jordan Peterson and then kinda went off the rails, Joe, more.

Gary: Yeah. Or drove way more crass. Right. And definitely as early sermons, they would've taken off the website 'cause they was totally, yeah. Yeah. It was like if I started preaching, like just not appropriate, right? Yeah. Just like, okay, you don't, you're not, you don't have the discernment and wisdom. It's almost like you knew the crass, this would get more views.

I don't know if that was the intent, but I think, you know, in Seattle's a super, uh, you know. Liberal, liberal city, I guess, for lack of a better word.

Kyle: I think there was actually, I remember seeing an article in Time Magazine about him because it was like it exploded.

Gary: Oh, that's what I mean. So, but then to go from that, to have just people, and I think that's the thing about [00:10:00] being a leader in general, and that's the balance.

'cause if you talk to any Christian leader or a lot of Christian leaders, um. Or I feel like being a leader in some little areas in my life, it's like, Hey, you're gonna, you're not gonna please people all the time. So you do have this balance of like, hey, you have to be okay with people not liking you. If you're gonna make any type of hard decision in your life, you're gonna have people that are not agreeing with their decision.

And some people won't agree with their decision just 'cause of change and people hate change.

Kyle: Yeah.

Gary: So you have that swath. Um, but then on the other side of it, you have a, a leader that's leading in such a way where everybody feels skewered if you don't agree. If you, you're not following what God wants to do.

And I've heard that. I've heard that speech past amongst myself. He

Kyle: wasn't, he wasn't accountable to

Gary: his elders at all. No. It's just like, if you don't agree,

Kyle: get off the bus. Don't let the bus run you over. Yeah. He would fire people, but he also took a whole bunch of church money and bought his own books.

With the church money so he could go like Sky skyrocket up York Times bestseller. The the bestseller list stuff like got. So there was some shady stuff like that. He did too.

Gary: Yeah. They definitely paid to be on the list. I dunno how that works. Yeah. Paying to be on the New York Times Best list. We probably bought

Kyle: his own books.

He bought like a lot of his own books. Okay.

Gary: A lot of books. Giveaway. [00:11:00] Yeah. Marriage. It was a marriage book.

Kyle: Anyways, we've got a listener question. Hi Kyle. I have a question. I think it's to both of us. Please send it to me. I was hoping you could answer, uh, this on the podcast. I'm probably gonna sound like a tool for asking, but how do you distance yourself from identifying with your business when times are good, being too proud and when times are bad, feeling like a piece of shit.

Thanks.

Gary: Uh, which is interesting 'cause everybody identifies by what they do in our culture. Yeah.

Kyle: How have you done that over the years? If you're did, did you feel like you identified with your business it was doing really good, or if it was doing really bad?

Gary: I guess? 'cause I'm perpetually discontent. I've never felt like my business has done that well.

So I've, I've never become proud in that. Maybe, I don't know. I've never felt like, oh wow, that's amazing. Like, yeah. I don't know. It's just more my personality. Like I'm totally a proud person. I'm, you know, in a lot of things. I like things to look nice. I've been [00:12:00] told that that's problematic. I know it's problematic.

Um, but I always, I said I had, uh, breakfast with the guy this morning. And I said to him like, because I am kind of a bozo and a big mouth and done a lot of foolish things, like I've had enough screw ups and mistakes over and over and still do that. I find like that keeps you, you know what I mean? Like if, if you look at your own life, you think of hey, like yeah, there's things that are well, but other things are disaster.

It's like, Hey, how can you be?

Kyle: Yeah.

Gary: Um, proud of that. I've, I've experienced, um. I just feel like everything's kind of a gift and I feel like that's what's really drawn me to the book I'm reading now, where it's like, hey, the idea of like, Hey, whatever we have is a gift, it is for everybody, and how are we stewarding it?

Right? And so, um.

Kyle: Yeah, I think, well, I mean, your, your identity shouldn't be found in your business in the first place. No. It is

Gary: really easy too, though, that that's totally a valid comment, right? Yes. So, but if

Kyle: your, um, should be found in Christ, right? Like what Christ has done for you, that's where your identity should be.

Gary: Yeah. But we spend, uh, how much of our days. In our mind, if we compartmentalized our life, how [00:13:00] much of it would it be doing those things following the Lord? So like we should do it in everything we do, but how much of our life is spent in that? Or how much of it is spent working, right? Like, I just think so much of our life revolves around our work and what we do and how much money, like just the way that our.

Society structure. Right. So

Kyle: yeah, I know, but I think, I think that's still a lot of people don't put any effort into that or aren't Christians, you know? And then, then it's for sure gonna be a problem when it goes really well, you are, you know, gonna be super proud about, look at me, look what I've done. And on the other side, you know, when it's crap, you're gonna feel like crap.

And I don't think you need to like, yeah. Um, you know, things can be, you know, you could have no money. Uh, and you know. Be, be happy still be self though. And still be being faithful. And still be being faithful. Yeah. Um, I mean, I think the Bible Bible says godliness with contentment is a great game. Um, it's not just contentment, it's not just godliness, it's the two together.

Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, don't worry about it. Just go do the right thing today. Yeah. Um, if your business is doing well, go do the right thing. If it's not doing well. Go do the right thing.

Gary: [00:14:00] Yeah. And I doesn't matter. I, I always feel like, and I had some guy the other day, he's great, great guy in our community and he's, he's, his business has kind of like taken off and he is doing really well.

And he just told me the whole story of how like, early on couldn't be generous. Now they can be generous. They, they support lots of stuff that I've asked him for money, for lots of nonprofits and like. I know they support other stuff and it's like there's a thousand ways to just keep yourself less successful if you want to.

And I look at even like my trajectory of, you know, buying and selling property in particular. That's why it's always funny, like Matt was making fun of me about my, uh, Debbie Downer, talk about the real estate. And I actually have a rec, uh, I'm on the record as probably being negative, but like the wealth material stuff that we have is kind of from buying and selling real estate.

And you look at those times when we liquidate and collect a check, it's underwhelming and there's no satisfaction in that. So it's like. At least in my personal, you want more? Well, you just want, you can never have enough. Like it would not matter. Fine. If you had a what size the check was, it would never feel like it was enough.

Kyle: Right? Yeah. You know who Scottish Heffler is.

Gary: Yeah.

Kyle: So he is the world number one golfer. [00:15:00] Yeah. And uh, this weekend is the open championship Yeah. In the uk, which is the biggest major of the year or one of them between that and masters. The masters, yeah. And, uh, and so he went on, uh, he got interviewed today and, and got asked like, what do you feel about golf and, and winning and stuff like that.

And he goes, leaves me perpetually discontent. He goes, because I've worked my whole life for this. I practice. All the time for, you know, winning these tournaments. And then I win one and it feels good for like two minutes, and then I'm like, what do I need to have for dinner tonight? Then the whole thing starts over and next week I gotta go again.

Yeah. And he goes just like, it, just never, never sat. He never fulfills, never satisfies, never fulfills. And, and you know, the checks he's getting when he wins is insane, you know? And like being number one, world number one golfer, like you, you get everything thrown at you. And, and, uh, but he, it's net

Gary: zero though, right?

Like l net zero, right? Like, you leave, you come, you come in naked and you leave naked with, that's right. And so he's a Christian, so he openly talks about, oh yes, okay.

Kyle: So he openly talks about it with my identities in Christ. And that, my friends always remind me of that, and that's why I go home and I just do my Bible [00:16:00] studies and I do my small groups and he goes, do the right things, and that's what I need to focus on.

He goes like, I just wanna be faithful on the gifts that God has given me. Um, but he goes, yeah, golfing just doesn't satisfy me, which is wild. He goes, he goes, I desperately wanna win though every

Gary: week. Yeah. That, and that's just natural, right? If you mean, if you're competitive. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

Trying your best. You should, you should want to succeed. I think that that is the struggle for a lot of people where it's just like you have this. How do you balance that, right? How do you balance the thing of like, Hey, you've been given these gifts. You're a business person. You're, you're pouring yourself into, you know what you're doing, and then also realizing, hey, it's not everything.

Yep. I'm gonna put your priorities first. The other thing I would find interesting, and I don't know how women have it. What the discussion would be. Maybe it would be if they had children or, I don't know. I don't, I just don't know. 'cause I never sat in on women's first conversations like I do with guys.

But like in guys, yeah. They always like I was people on my holiday. There's some guy from California.

Kyle: Yeah.

Gary: And uh, seven Day Adventist fellow. Which was interesting in and of itself, but instantly, like [00:17:00] you just kind of gravitate toward, like you don't, I didn't want to talk about it right away 'cause I just feel like it's so frustrating.

But right away you're like, oh, what do you do for work?

Kyle: Mm.

Gary: You know, it works for a seven day Adventist chain of hospitals doing all their uh, uh, supplies, like buys all their supplies, right? Yeah. And you just find interesting job and you can talk about that. But that like, is that what he's identified as now?

It kind of is, right? Like,

Kyle: yeah.

Gary: So

Kyle: yeah. Usually have to, if you have to get someone talk to someone more than like one or two times, then you switch from work pretty quickly, or at least I do

Gary: into something a little more, uh, deep and meaningful. That matters. Something that

Kyle: matters. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I hate small talk, so.

Anyways, we got asked also, what podcasts do we listen to? Recommend some podcasts? I know you talk about a bunch. Yeah. That you listen to. Yeah. So one that I really enjoy listening to, it's a Christian podcast. It's from World Radio and it's called The World and Everything in It. And so it's more about American news, but they have a podcast every morning.

It's about half hour long and it goes through, uh, what's um. Uh, the news that day, the World, world News [00:18:00] that day, and it's more American news. Then they also have, uh, different segments during the week on like, um, on money or on like the Supreme Court or on uh, um, like a culture, um, culture Fridays, I think they call it.

And they get, get different guests on. So the world, the world and everything in it. Really, really, uh, good podcast. I've, um, really enjoyed over the years. Um, a cool, uh, podcast I listen to with my kids is real cool, real cool history for kids. Um, it's also a Christian podcast and it just goes through different world history and tells good stories.

Uh, love listening to that with, uh, my kids, uh, and Malachi. So, um, those are two podcasts. I don't listen to a lot of podcasts, but those are the one, the ones I listen to, um, um, the most. When do you listen to podcasts? When I drive. Okay. And so I don't drive that much, so

Gary: Okay. Work from home. Yeah. I think I've referred to it before.

Um, yeah, I've listened to quite a few of Matt Sean's deep thoughts. Um, some of them I found more interesting than others. I like the, um, [00:19:00] I think I've referred to the overcomers with Matt Chandler, so I also listen to his sermons, but he has a podcast called The Overcomers. It's super, yeah, super. Like I could recommend all kinds of, uh, yeah.

He's recently on there himself. His wife interviews him. Um. I have the acquired podcast. Every company has a story. Okay. Long podcast. The story of Facebook, the story of Ikea three to five hour podcast. Oh wow. Really, really like them. Um. That I've listened to those lately and then I've recommended the Looney Hour.

I know people listen to this show to us. They, um, they've fall started falling Looney Hour. I mean, it's all economics. You're really struggling.

Kyle: Oh man. I'm in so much pain. Okay.

Gary: Yeah. I, I found it very interesting to watch, so I never watched our own podcast ever. Oh, okay. You've watched it this time with Matt, but I watched it with.

It was just interesting. Like he's given me all the feedback of us interrupting each other, and I'm thinking, yeah, Kyle does interrupt me a lot. Actually, I hadn't been bothered by it before, but No, it will. You, [00:20:00] you wa you watched me and Max Oh, you interrupted him, right? Oh, okay. And I interrupt you so it's whatever.

But yeah. And so I listened to the, uh, gospel and life Timothy Keller. I've listened to a lot of his servants. I listened to, um, like a local real estate podcast from Vancouver. Yeah. But. Like even the Looney hour, it's all economics. It's like they, they do reg, like we regurgitate a lot of the same things.

And they do too. Yeah. Yeah. It's just we have, we're talking about more than just the real estate update, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle: Fair enough. There you go. There are some, my podcasts that we listen to. I'll actually put my, some, uh, my music playlist as well that are on Spotify in the description. We wanna listen to the, to the music.

I listen to, there's a big, uh, big difference. There's a big spread. Me too

Gary: big,

Kyle: big spread. There's one called Real Rap, uh, gospel Favorites. Got a whole bunch of ones. Do

Gary: your kids listen to music with you? Yeah. Can they listen to anything that you listen to? Yeah. Okay.

Kyle: Once in a while. Once in a while if like there's You go

Gary: rogue.

Kyle: Yeah. If there's a po, something I'll listen to that's not good, they'll pick it [00:21:00] up quick and they'll be like, dad,

Gary: yeah. This is not okay. Switch this. Interesting. Yeah. They're very aware. Our kids are currently outside swimming. Do you think they're safe?

Kyle: Yeah.

Gary: Yeah, because my little guy doesn't know how to swim.

Kyle: Nicole's out there and Malachi will be on it. He his lifeguard. Yeah. Yeah. He's pretty aware of what's going on. Okay. I'm a little worried now. Definitely gonna, I'm gonna end it soon anyway. I'm gonna stand up again. So, yeah, I got, uh, went to the doctor again this morning. Got a little bit of a harder drug for the pain and, uh, I got, um, so I guess my bottom two or three vertebrae are pinched.

Okay. And the bottom of vertebrae has arthritis in it. And so did you do a scan or something or how was it? Yeah, I did an MR MRI last week. Oh, you got an M MRI done? I got private MRI done.

Gary: Okay.

Kyle: Um, like 700 bucks, sir.

Gary: Money well spent.

Kyle: Well, yeah, now I can go to the surgeon right away and so I have a, hopefully get a, a meeting with the surgeon, neurosurgeon and next week.

And what are they gonna do there? And they're gonna shave down a [00:22:00] disc I guess. So it's not pressing up against the nerve.

Gary: No other option other than shaving down discs.

Kyle: I have no idea. I've been, I've been doing all the exercises and everything else, everything they've set, and it's been like 12, it's like, been like 11 weeks now, but it's like, it's brutal.

Like I woke up at one this morning, didn't sleep anymore, and uh, it's getting, I, most of the time I, in agony. Yeah. Most of the time I would lay down on the floor and work, just put a laptop down and Okay. Yeah. Or stand up. But standing's, I'm really getting sick of standing, so.

Gary: Okay. Yeah, we had, um. I had an interesting, lots of interesting meetings lately with people, and one of the ones was with, uh, good friends of ours who went out on Saturday night for dinner.

Okay. And they informed me that they do listen to podcast now. You know, I told you nobody listens, right? Mm-hmm. So, and it was actually easier when they didn't, 'cause now of course I'm getting critiqued, right? Before they would just awkwardly say like, no, I don't wanna listen to you. Oh, yeah, she admitted.

No, it was semi-interesting sometimes, right? You can't say their names. No, no, definitely not. Definitely not, um, no, not incriminate my, uh, my good friends by listening [00:23:00] to this verbal diarrhea. But they, uh, one of the things that they, uh, they said was like, oh, you're always holding back. I can just, 'cause they know me really well, right.

As you do you, and, and my wife obviously, when she listens, she's like, oh, you're always holding back. And she's like, oh, I listen to one the other day. You, you're talking about like how much sex somebody should have and didn't, didn't want to even touch it. Right. Like just left it alone. It's like, how come you didn't talk about your schedule for sex?

Right. Yeah. Because like me and Marie have like a whole schedule and like. Like it's a healthy thing. If you had a, your marriage meeting and you have six kids, 11 and under, like scheduling, you gotta make it a priority. You gotta make it a priority. Right. So it's put on the calendar. Right, right. First Monday of every month.

Right. So it's like, Hey, I was

Kyle: actually talking to Nicole about this, about how like, like in a business, you, you have meetings and you like talk about what you want to get done. You write down your goals. Yeah. You know, like you structure things, you know, you're really intentional about like where you spend your time and how, like running a home.

Like basically running a small business, right? You have a budget or you should, it's more like running an insane, insane asylum, I think. Well, it [00:24:00] definitely is in your house. In our

Gary: house, but, but like if you,

Kyle: A lot of people don't take any intentionality for it, right? And then they wonder why

Gary: it all falls apart.

Exactly. It's like, no, if you, if you are not. If you are not paying attention, if you are not laser focused on where you're going, you are for sure going downhill. Yeah. You, you only coast downhill. That's, and that's, that's in anything, right? Yeah. That's in it's for sure. In your marriage and even with your kids,

Kyle: but even like the detail things like, well, what do you wanna teach your kids?

Yeah. Like you need to talk about it. You can't just assume that you, like, it's just gonna all come out. Yeah. And that you're gonna say no. Like all that stuff. I think it's, I think it's super important to be intentional about that. Those just, yeah. You got nothing. That's the one thing that matters most.

Yeah. You are in agony. Hey, this, this thing's over. Uh, we got, we got, I always try to go half hour. We got five more minutes. Okay. What else? We got the time's important to you. Uh, I try to always go half hour. That's kind of, yeah, you get real anxious if we're over two. Not really lot. I mean that NRC one, that NRC question, that was over.

How was

Gary: the feedback on that?

Kyle: I got really positive feedback from everybody. Yeah.

Gary: Yeah. People said, you're surprisingly [00:25:00] gracious. It was a bit of a backhand call. I guess people dunno me that well, um, well, they actually know you really well, so it's the first thing people say to me, right When they, when I don't know them, be like, I know you really well even though you don't know me.

Oh yeah. Its the podcast, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So people get a whole insight into your life and everything that're doing. Yeah, people,

Kyle: the history people really enjoyed the history. I, I

Gary: like the history too. I appreciated that. And, uh, the left about, and they said it was great, a history lesson, I think. But, but usually the people that don't like it, I don't hear from anyway, so You think so?

Yeah. Uh, people have been honest with you. I like that. I think people, I've, I've appreciated that people have even, I think it takes courage to stick your neck out, and I think conflict is healthy. It's the pathway to intimacy, right? So I'm not saying I don't like

Kyle: it or don't want it,

Gary: I'm just saying I, you just feel like people

Kyle: don't normally criticize you.

Uh, the people that, like, for example, on this topic about the NRC, I'm not, I'm not gonna hear, you know, from the people that are, that are offended by it, that were really offended, but were bothered by it. They're not gonna reach out. No, no. And that's okay. I'm not expecting [00:26:00] them to, but I'm just saying the majority was.

Yeah. Yeah. Really? No, I think it was, was was good. So it wasn't as Okay. Um, money Possessions and Eternity. Oh, eternity page. I didn't bring the book. Page 1 66. I didn't bring the book. I can't read it. Oh, you wanted to talk about it?

Gary: No, I wanna read it, so I'll read it next time. Okay.

Kyle: What about mass deportations?

Gary: Oh yeah, this came up the other night at the dinner table. It was just the idea of like, and I don't know, like if it's, it's probably been done before, but it feels like, and there again there's people that probably know, but in chill Walk where we live, like we're at the end of a valley. Uh, and for those that don't live right around here or don't know the area well, it's warmest.

Probably one of the warmest, it is the warmest area in Canada, um, in the winter. And like we have three or 400 homeless people, pro population in chill lock. And so if you listen to people talk there again, I mean, just from what I hear, and I think it's probably is true to some degree, there's people that literally get shipped in here or just come here because of how well you get treated when you're homeless.

Right. And I don't mean just homeless, like, hey, you're, you know, you have [00:27:00] mental illness and you literally can't afford to pay rent. No. Like, you pound back the fentanyl and you're a cracker. Yeah. And you, you know, you're literally on drugs and you obviously don't have any money left to pay for a house.

Both, both of those, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so it's like you have this idea. I wondered like, you know, would there be some way, like at some point the pendulum is gonna swing and the the silent majority is gonna get fed up with the idea of, hey, we're gonna give free drugs. To people, right? Like this is not, is that

Kyle: what the safe injection site does?

Because free drugs go, some do,

Gary: and it's harm reduction, it's called for sure. They give free drugs and it's called harm reduction. Right? That's likely they do, yes. It would be called harm reduction. Do, do, you know, I'll do more homework and be more educated, so I can really say exact stuff, but I thought they just had a, it's even crazier than that.

If you're down there. No, no, no. You go down there and you're, or they just supply the. There's some free stuff and there's

Kyle: supply free clean syringes. They do that

Gary: too, right? There's a lot of that. There's just the space. You're not allowed to be there if you're not using like it's, you know, a client, uh, yeah, yeah.

[00:28:00] Confidentiality, right? This idea, so like we've moved away. In our society from shaming really bad behavior. But that's not totally true. Like we'll shame you if you smoke cigarettes. Yeah, right. But if you come back, it depends what it is. We've picked these weird things where like we're gonna protect. And I just wonder if at some point the pendulum will swing where we'll be like, okay, we're gonna get right carried away here and we're gonna load up people and ship them somewhere remote where they're not gonna die unless they kill each other.

But it's just like, hey, they're just gonna have to learn to be clean and sober. That there is life after, you know, there again, once you're addicted to it, like, hey, I full sympathy. Like once you know how it is, you start pounding back drugs. Drugs are drugs. Like yeah, you don't have addictive personality, you said before the show starts, so you'd be fine.

But like someone like me is in deep trouble. If I do fentanyl one time, yeah, I'd be, I love the opioids, right? Yeah. Um. So I just think, Hey, why, why do we, why have we turned into this where people are just silently frustrated and, and it creates polarized society, right? You can see it even how we vote, right?

We have like 50, roughly 50 50 split in our country of people that decide, [00:29:00] Hey, I'm okay with these policies, these, you know, these, these types of policies where we're basically supplying people with things that are killing them. It's mostly frustrating because literally. And this is the part that drives me the craziest, and this ties into my rants.

'cause every time I see a Michael Campbell post about antis supply management, there's people in the comment section beacon off about how the dairy farmers make it so we can't get raw milk. That is not. Dairy farmers saying you can't get raw milk. That's government. Yeah, that's the government, the nanny state we live in.

You cannot sell raw milk in Canada, right. Yet. You can literally get any kind of drug that'll basically kill you. There's signs. If you go downtown, chillax, there's signs all over. Hey, the current batch of crap out there is laced with this and it's dangerous and. It's got 10 times as much, you know, power and it's gonna nuke you.

Right? Like, be careful, Mike. You know, so I just think, hey, when, when does the pendulum swing? Would it be an idea to where like, hey, we just literally round up people at some point against their will and say, no, you are going, you are going clean and sober. We're keep 'em alive. Like for the. Detox 'em for 36 hours or whatever.

Give 'em the medicine they need to, to not, yeah, not, not die and then like, [00:30:00] no, you're just gonna figure it out and live sober. Like this is bs. Right? Like now there's a building right along by my parents' church there. By the free or form along the highway. Yeah. They're building all that's connected to Ruth and I, so all this housing, it's like, like, listen, none of us think that somebody should die laying in the street.

Like we're all gonna agree that we should care for these people, but not. Bad behavior just has never been reward since. When would you think as a society that it's healthy to reward bad behavior? Right? Yeah. And for some reason, you know, because, yeah, I mean a lot, a lot of this

Kyle: I don't even know about it.

Like, so I actually applied at the Salvation Army Shelter to be casual worker. You're find out, you're gonna find out real fast. We'll all work probably like four or five shifts a month. Month. Are you gonna do it or not? You don't know. Yeah, I'm, well, I'm, I gotta apply. I got a first interview and it seems like I'll, I'll we'll get it, but, okay.

Well,

Gary: don't talk about mass deportations.

Kyle: Uh, but I'll, I'll learn a lot and just, um, I'm talking and, and, uh, being around those, um, people more. Um, but like, I think a lot of it I just, you know, just don't know about because I think a lot of thing things like this, we, we talk about it. You go downtown quite a bit and talk [00:31:00] and talk to these people, but that's super rare.

Uh, most people are like, go sit in their, you know, nice homes or whatever else like that. And they see the problems when they drive through. Um, they don't actually engage and see like, what's actually going on and what are these people actually dealing with. Well, and

Gary: they're broken. And every single person there has not, they've had a harder life than most of us could ever imagine.

I'm, I'm not disagreeing with any of that. I'm not disagreeing with the idea, but even, even the idea of like, just from a biblical principle, there's someone in my family, they'll remain unnamed, they would say. Um, you know, the Bible says if you don't work, you don't eat, like, you know, like if you're capable of working, which obviously a lot of these people are, if they weren't pounding back the dope.

But we've just created this culture of like, hey, there's sympathy and there always is sympathy. There can be sympathy, but like empathy doesn't need to turn in, in, into enabling. Right? Yeah. And it's the, yeah.

Kyle: I think that's the difference too, is like get rid of that. Like thinking about care for these people differently instead of enabling Yeah.

Like actually focus on rehabilitation. So a couple weeks ago I took a couple [00:32:00] guys out, um, that, that I found that were at McDonald's. Um, and I asked them, I said, what do you guys actually need? Like, like I was just curious what they would say and they said, um. People to talk to, like an actual, like psychologist to talk to, to help me unpack.

Did you tell him you're a

Gary: psychologist?

Kyle: No, I'm not a psychologist. Uh, and, uh, um, but I, I thought that was interesting. 'cause obviously like a lot of this stuff is from trauma, you know, that they're, that they're on, on drugs for, um, and you know, my own story is like, I'm, you know, to said it a few times, Nicole said to me like.

Yeah, if you don't deal with the pain of what happened to you as kid, as a kid, we're never gonna stay married because I was gonna go keep going back to my addictive things and like I needed to deal with the root of the issue. And um, like something like that. How do you do that on a mass scale for these people and actually care for 'em that way?

'cause it, I guess

Gary: from my perspective, so I agree with all that. I just feel like when you're loaded all the time. You're on such powerful drugs. The drugs are on now. Yeah. The drugs need to get removed. Never. You're never getting, that's not good. Getting [00:33:00] better. Like you're just never getting better. No. And anytime I bring up, even like for the girl's birth parents or just people, I'm like, Hey, like we'll happily pay for treatment, but yeah.

People have to want it. Right. And so when you make it easily accessible Yeah. That, and you make it so I do not believe, but you should just, I'm just not sure that's helpful. Right. I, no, I would be curious to know. Again, there's people that would probably really strongly advocate for just the system that, well, obviously there is 'cause people are okay with it.

Right. And it's being funded by the taxpayer. So, which is why you should give your kids a wide open phone. 'cause that's drugs. Yeah. You getting them drugs? You should take your kids downtown. Yeah, you should. You should educate your kids on what life looks like. And I always tell my kids like it doesn't, nobody starts off at a party thinking they're gonna be a homeless person.

Lac out on family. So what,

Kyle: so these two guys I picked up, I bought 'em both, uh, ACOA packs of cigarettes. Nice. They were just tickle pink.

Gary: Those are that enabling. No, I always buy people smokes. I just live vicariously through the homeless people that I give cigarettes to. Let 'em have a couple darts for me.

I was hanging

Kyle: out with somebody yesterday. Oh yeah. I'm smoking. I was at, uh, have I said

Gary: that on here? How much I [00:34:00] like smoking? Yeah. '

Kyle: cause I was talking about people on Sunday night I was playing volleyball. Um, okay. Uh, I, a group, group of people from church. And, uh, we were talking about smoking for some reason, and, uh, someone asked, does Gary smoke?

And it's like, Gary smoke, smoke a ton. And I reminded them that as soon as your, you said as soon as your son smarts to start smoking, you're gonna be back on it.

Gary: Yeah. So far they're

Kyle: really against smoking. That's good.

Gary: Yeah, it's really unfortunate. Yeah. They teach these, ingrained these kids now how bad it's for them.

Malachi always goes, goes after me too. If he sees me smoking. Stop.

Kyle: Stop.

Gary: Yeah. Anyways, I'm sure it is really bad for you. I felt like crap whenever I smoke I'm thankful it stopped.

Kyle: But yeah. Anyways. Hey, did you find your, uh, diesel mechanic?

Gary: Nope. Still looking. Okay. Looking for a, uh, automotive mechanic that specializes in trucks and ideally diesel.

Diesel trucks.

Kyle: Okay. That, and also if you're, uh, cash

Gary: reward for someone that sends me,

Kyle: uh, handyman, um. Uh, willing to work on pumps and, uh, that kind of stuff. Uh, water systems. Um, if you have a lot of experience, 40, 45 [00:35:00] bucks an hour, if you're gonna want an apprentice under that and just, uh, learn the trade and you're 18, 20 years old, um, reach out to me and I'll connect you with the right guy.

Great company. Good, good company. Yeah. And if you're looking to, um, have a position you wanna fill, reach out and I'll advertise it here. Or if you are, uh, wanna work for somebody, um, and, uh. Specific company, whatever, reach out and I'll be with that as well. So

Gary: anyways, anything else you got? No, I had a lot of stuff in my mind rattling around in the cage this morning, but

Kyle: yeah, it always happens.

It always happens. Record and all of a sudden you forget it all.

Gary: Yeah, it's better that way. Yeah.

Kyle: If you wanna support the show, link a description. We appreciate it. Anyways, see you guys next week. Have a great week. See?

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