He Was the Best Man, and He Forgot the Rings (True Story) - Briefcase & The Barn EP 97

May 27, 2026

[00:00:00] KYLE: Man.

[00:00:03] GARY: Did you meet him for [00:00:05] lunch?

[00:00:05] KYLE: Yeah, at breakfast. Oh. Had our coffee this

[00:00:06] GARY: morning. Okay[00:00:10] [00:00:15] [00:00:20]

[00:00:20] Heavenly Father, I pray that we would, um-

[00:00:22] KYLE: What? Uh-

[00:00:23] GARY: What are

[00:00:23] KYLE: you

[00:00:23] GARY: doing? I'm praying. You [00:00:25] keep working. I'll pray. I'll pray as you work. I'm praying.

[00:00:29] KYLE: You

[00:00:29] GARY: go [00:00:30] pray. God, uh[00:00:35]

[00:00:35] Oh man. Lots going on, Lord, in my life. [00:00:40] Lots of struggle, lots of, uh, issues. And, uh, God, I pray for Marie, for the [00:00:45] weight she's carrying. Uh, not physical weight, thankfully, Lord. Um, [00:00:50] but the mental and emotional weight of all the stuff.[00:00:55]

[00:00:58] Lord, yeah, be with, [00:01:00] uh, Kyle and I. Pray that we would honor you in all that we do. And God, just pray that we can get through one more [00:01:05] podcast and, uh, be entertaining and enlightening to those that listen. We ask in Jesus' [00:01:10] name. Amen.

[00:01:14] What?

[00:01:14] KYLE: [00:01:15] That was too

[00:01:16] GARY: funny.[00:01:20] [00:01:25]

[00:01:29] You think the Lord has a sense of [00:01:30] humor? I think so Oh,

[00:01:30] KYLE: for sure he does.

[00:01:32] GARY: He created people with a sense of humor[00:01:35]

[00:01:37] I think the fact that the Bible was written rather than a movie [00:01:40] is a lot of the... You definitely lose a lot of the... It's basically based on your [00:01:45] imagination of how you anticipate things were said [00:01:50] You hammer no email?[00:01:55] [00:02:00]

[00:02:00] Which guy? Where?

[00:02:02] KYLE: Um, no one's asking. [00:02:05] That's something I wanted to talk about on the

[00:02:07] GARY: podcast.[00:02:10]

[00:02:10] KYLE: Things on

[00:02:12] GARY: Okay[00:02:15] [00:02:20] [00:02:25]

[00:02:25] KYLE: Oh.

[00:02:25] GARY: You know what? People have all their burdens to bear, right?

[00:02:29] KYLE: Whose burdens are you [00:02:30] bearing?

[00:02:30] GARY: No, everybody has burdens to bear.

[00:02:32] KYLE: What burdens are you bearing today, Gary? Welcome back to [00:02:35] episode 97.

[00:02:36] GARY: Oh, wow.

[00:02:36] KYLE: Of The Briefcase in the Barn, which has a to- totally [00:02:40] chaotic start 'cause I got home, like, a minute ago.[00:02:45]

[00:02:46] GARY: It's been a chaotic weekend. It was the Family... [00:02:50] No, not Family Day. Victoria Day. I'm assuming it's

[00:02:53] KYLE: for Queen

[00:02:53] GARY: Victoria.

[00:02:53] KYLE: Oh,

[00:02:53] GARY: yeah,

[00:02:53] KYLE: yeah. Did you take it yet? No, was it [00:02:55] Victoria Day? Is that what it's called?

[00:02:55] GARY: I think so.

[00:02:56] KYLE: May long weekend.

[00:02:56] GARY: May long weekend, yep.

[00:02:58] KYLE: Um-

[00:02:59] GARY: Any excuse [00:03:00] for the masses to another f- another fun day.

[00:03:04] KYLE: You have to pay [00:03:05] all your, uh, employees, uh, stat holiday?

[00:03:06] GARY: I would assume so.

[00:03:08] KYLE: You wanna take care of that? You don't

[00:03:09] GARY: worry about that? I try not to think [00:03:10] about it, no. It's, it's just, it's weird. It's a, it's a tax on business, which obviously for [00:03:15] employees is awesome. And if I was an employee, I would love it as well.

[00:03:18] Um, but somebody's gotta pay for it. [00:03:20] You can never be at home doing nothing while someone else is paying you without a cost getting translated somewhere. Yeah. And so [00:03:25] most people don't think of that, right? They just assume it's just the way it is, and that, you know. So [00:03:30] those types of things are, uh, every time they get handed out, there's a cost to business, and [00:03:35] therefore things get passed on, obviously eventually to consumers and customers.

[00:03:38] And, [00:03:40] um, it was a crazy weekend, man. It was, uh, lots of hiking.

[00:03:43] KYLE: That's good.

[00:03:44] GARY: Yeah.

[00:03:44] KYLE: [00:03:45] With the whole family, I seen. Mary joined you.

[00:03:46] GARY: Yeah. Tom did the, uh, Mount Tom there for the first time. The three-year-old. The whole thing? [00:03:50] The whole thing, yeah. L- yeah. You didn't

[00:03:51] KYLE: get carry him at

[00:03:52] GARY: all? No, no. Lots of whining, lots of sniveling.

[00:03:54] KYLE: And [00:03:55] how long did that take?

[00:03:56] GARY: Uh, it was pretty good. Like two hour, hour and 50 minutes up and down. Hour and 45 minutes. That is

[00:03:59] KYLE: really

[00:03:59] GARY: good. [00:04:00] Not bad. 6.7 kilometers. And then we did, uh, the Lindeman Lake yesterday.

[00:04:04] KYLE: Okay. [00:04:05]

[00:04:05] GARY: Which, have you done that?

[00:04:06] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:04:06] GARY: Like that little short jaunt?

[00:04:08] KYLE: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. It's like it gets really [00:04:10] stop and, steep and rocky for a bit there, and then-

[00:04:11] GARY: The whole thing's steep and rocky, basically.

[00:04:13] Oh, okay. And there was lots of trees down. [00:04:15]

[00:04:15] KYLE: Oh.

[00:04:15] GARY: And there was at least, uh, half of Richmond was there, and then the other half came from Surrey. And it [00:04:20] was just insane. Like it was

[00:04:22] KYLE: insane. I believe it. I believe

[00:04:23] GARY: it. It was [00:04:25] people in their-

[00:04:25] KYLE: But y- the whole

[00:04:26] GARY: family? ... Canada Goose jackets and their slip-on Crocs, and they're [00:04:30] just- Oh

[00:04:30] not prepared for hiking in Chilliwack. It was really cute.

[00:04:33] KYLE: The whole family went again?

[00:04:34] GARY: Yeah, with, [00:04:35] uh, the brother-in-law and sister-in-law, Dawson and Jo and all their- And you made it to the top? ... kids. There's 10 of us. Yeah. And there was a lot of [00:04:40] whining there, too.

[00:04:40] KYLE: I believe it.

[00:04:41] GARY: A lot of people getting hurt on the rocks and...

[00:04:43] KYLE: And you went for a swim up top? [00:04:45]

[00:04:45] GARY: No. No, I'm a baby, right? I don't, you know that I don't like cold water. And then of course, Friday was Julius's [00:04:50] wedding.

[00:04:50] KYLE: Yeah, which was awesome.

[00:04:51] GARY: Yeah. And

[00:04:51] KYLE: you forgot the rings.

[00:04:53] GARY: Yeah, that was an unmitigated [00:04:55] disaster.

[00:04:55] KYLE: So, so-

[00:04:55] GARY: Most

[00:04:56] KYLE: people

[00:04:56] GARY: don't know this ...

[00:04:56] KYLE: so I, I show up to the service, and Gary walks in, 'cause [00:05:00] he's the best man, with these two other guys.

[00:05:02] And, uh, within a few minutes he's already [00:05:05] twitching because he doesn't... I- in my mind, this is what I'm thinking, he doesn't have his phone on him, so he needs something to do. So he just goes over [00:05:10] and talks to Julius' parents.

[00:05:11] GARY: This is once the service had started, by

[00:05:12] KYLE: the

[00:05:12] GARY: way.

[00:05:13] KYLE: Y- yeah. Then he goes over and talks to [00:05:15] the pastor.

[00:05:15] Then he goes over and talks to the organist. And I'm like, "This guy's just so bored." I'm like, "This is so funny. He [00:05:20] cannot... Like, what is going on?" And, uh, Nicole figured it was Julius' [00:05:25] blood sugar or something was going sideways- Yeah, 'cause he's type- ... that he was gonna

[00:05:27] GARY: faint ... type 1 diabetes, yeah. Yeah. So he needs the-

[00:05:29] KYLE: But what it [00:05:30] actually was, was Gary was supposed to bring the rings, and there was no rings.

[00:05:32] So he got, uh, eventually he got Ron Illumines [00:05:35] rings. And also, so the service starts, and I'm like, "Why did [00:05:40] Julius pick two hymns to start this service that... And we're singing all [00:05:45] four verses?" No, that

[00:05:45] GARY: was all fine.

[00:05:47] KYLE: Was that not- All that was fine ... was that, that, was that not added on to make- No, that was all-

[00:05:49] make it [00:05:50] longer?

[00:05:50] GARY: No. No. No, that was just nice that we were gonna sing, sing lots of verses. I- That was fine ...

[00:05:54] KYLE: I thought that was [00:05:55] added on to make it

[00:05:55] GARY: longer. No, it was the extra song at the end, right? Oh, the extra

[00:05:57] KYLE: amen. So

[00:05:57] GARY: basically what happened was we get out of the... We walk out of, [00:06:00] into church there And we hadn't been there two minutes, the ladies had walked down, and then we turned to sing [00:06:05] the first song, and Julius looks over at me with a panicked look on his face and says, "Do you have the rings?"

[00:06:09] Oh. [00:06:10] And I'm like, "Son of a beater." "This is a disaster." And [00:06:15] actually, I still have PTSD from it. Well, first of all, I've been made fun a lot of, obviously.

[00:06:19] KYLE: What wa- what [00:06:20] was going on in your head?

[00:06:22] GARY: Well, first, I didn't have my phone. That was the biggest issue. So, like, [00:06:25] the biggest issue was that I couldn't do anything about it 'cause I didn't have any way to communicate with anyone other than to walk over [00:06:30] to them-

[00:06:30] KYLE: Yeah

[00:06:30] GARY: like we're from the Stone Ages, and start telling them my problems, right? So, [00:06:35] I told Julius's mom, and she was very gracious. She tried to get me... First she panicked too, then she knew that [00:06:40] I was more panicked than her, so she had to be the calm one. So she said, "I'll get..." So basically Julius's brother missed his [00:06:45] entire b- brother's wedding-

[00:06:46] KYLE: Yes

[00:06:46] GARY: 'cause doorknob, uh, best man did not bring the rings. And we even talked [00:06:50] about it in the morning. We were having breakfast at their house, it was a beautiful morning, hanging out, relaxed as [00:06:55] all get out, and somebody said, "Oh, where are the rings?" It came up in conversation. "Oh, they're above the fridge." [00:07:00] And then that was...

[00:07:01] And Micah said later, he was in the wedding party as well, Micah Shoot, and [00:07:05] he said, uh, th- he said to Marie later at night, he's like, "The minute that that was the conversation, I [00:07:10] knew that those rings were never making it to the church the way that Julius and Carey were not worried about the rings being on top of the fridge [00:07:15] at that moment."

[00:07:15] And I mean, we got in the weeds and we were there 45 minutes early, and we had all kinds of [00:07:20] time. We hung out and yeah, it was awesome. It was a great day. And

[00:07:22] KYLE: they showed up, what, like-

[00:07:23] GARY: They showed up as, [00:07:25] as-

[00:07:25] KYLE: That part of the ceremony

[00:07:26] GARY: was starting ... as he was gonna get m- Like, it was like- As he was actually gonna get married- It was right there

[00:07:29] and say the vows, [00:07:30] and then of course the vows- I

[00:07:30] KYLE: mean, without the rings it would've been fine, right? You can still do the vows without exchanging rings.

[00:07:34] GARY: Well, you put the [00:07:35] ring on the other person's hand. I mean, I could've used his parents'- Oh yeah, I guess part of that ... but y- do you know any woman that wants to put her mother-in-law's [00:07:40] ring on in the wedding ceremony?

[00:07:41] Fair

[00:07:42] KYLE: point. Fair point.

[00:07:44] GARY: I, all these [00:07:45] thoughts are going through my head as I was sitting there, right?

[00:07:46] KYLE: That wouldn't be funny. '

[00:07:47] GARY: Cause that was the initial plan, right? 'Cause I [00:07:50] had Ron, so-

[00:07:50] KYLE: Yeah ...

[00:07:51] GARY: you know. And then, uh, afterwards, Ron, of course, to be [00:07:55] funny, got, uh, Kira to try t- try on Wilmine's ring and it didn't even fit.

[00:07:59] So that would've [00:08:00] been a, just made the whole thing worse. Anyways, they showed up and Pastor Matt's like, "The rings have [00:08:05] arrived." And so of course at that moment everyone knew that I had really screwed up, right? I thought it was

[00:08:08] KYLE: funny when-

[00:08:09] GARY: Humbled once [00:08:10] again. Totally fine. Yeah ...

[00:08:10] KYLE: me and Kolson, Pastor Matt walk on in his black suit and white shirt, and I was like- He's

[00:08:14] GARY: always dressed to the [00:08:15] nines, yeah

[00:08:15] KYLE: NRC Pastor-

[00:08:15] GARY: Dressed to

[00:08:16] KYLE: the crowd ... NRC Pastor here. Dressed to

[00:08:17] GARY: the crowd. What did you [00:08:20] think of the sermon at the wedding? I could not listen to it. I was-

[00:08:22] KYLE: Oh, I wonder why ...

[00:08:23] GARY: completely unhinged-

[00:08:24] KYLE: Yeah. [00:08:25] No, that

[00:08:25] GARY: was good ... in my own brain. Okay.

[00:08:27] KYLE: Yeah, it was just a pretty standard wedding sermon. Pretty

[00:08:28] GARY: standard wedding sermon.

[00:08:29] Okay. [00:08:30]

[00:08:30] KYLE: Supposed to love your wife, life with, life, uh, and the whole

[00:08:34] GARY: [00:08:35] thing. Yeah. Wife's supposed to respect her husband, if he's worthy of the respect, right?

[00:08:39] KYLE: Yeah. And if [00:08:40] you're- His, his one li- his one line, "If your, um, [00:08:45] if your husband tells you you need to respect me- To

[00:08:47] GARY: submit ...

[00:08:47] KYLE: you can tell him, 'Well, you need to die.'"[00:08:50]

[00:08:50] GARY: Yeah. He's preached that in a sermon before.

[00:08:52] KYLE: Yeah. '

[00:08:53] GARY: Cause some men are just [00:08:55] total jerks and just demand their wives to- Submit to the [00:09:00] authoritarian dictatorship

[00:09:00] KYLE: Those are probably the people you shouldn't submit to.

[00:09:02] GARY: Yeah, it's complicated 'cause it's messy. [00:09:05]

[00:09:05] KYLE: Yeah, I'd say.

[00:09:05] GARY: Anyways, that was, that was Friday. That was, it was a great wedding.[00:09:10]

[00:09:10] You MCed. Yeah,

[00:09:11] KYLE: I

[00:09:11] GARY: love MCing. Had you MCed before?

[00:09:12] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:09:13] GARY: Okay. A

[00:09:14] KYLE: bunch of [00:09:15] different weddings.

[00:09:15] GARY: Okay.

[00:09:16] KYLE: And I had my, um, uh, mentored my, uh, [00:09:20] did my, um, what's the guy? The guy that, that lawyer, John Carpay, I, uh- Yeah ... did that event.

[00:09:24] GARY: JCCF. Yeah, [00:09:25]

[00:09:25] KYLE: that was cool.

[00:09:26] GARY: Okay.

[00:09:27] KYLE: I, what I was surprised by that, by that event, um, that [00:09:30] I, what did you call it, moderated it.

[00:09:31] GARY: Yeah.

[00:09:31] KYLE: Was the crowd was, like, [00:09:35] average age must've been like- All geriatrics ... 55, 60 years old. Yeah. And they were the engaged on these issues [00:09:40] of, uh, of, that are affecting Canada today when it comes to, like, basically our freedoms and everything else, the [00:09:45] most important things. And there's just like, there's no en- like, there's no engagement with young people.

[00:09:49] Now, I think that's [00:09:50] partially the reason is that it probably wasn't marketed very well. Like, even like the thing they posted on Facebook and stuff like that I thought [00:09:55] was kind of like, it wasn't not clear at all about what this event was about. But if you look at, [00:10:00] uh, and so I actually asked John Carpay this, like, "Where is the engagement of young people?"

[00:10:03] And he said that when he [00:10:05] ran for the Reform Party in the '90s, that they complained that it was only old people in the Reform Party, [00:10:10] and some guy told them all it's old people in all the parties. And, and that, uh, um, the [00:10:15] rep- that's just old people are always over-represented. But I, when you look at the States the last [00:10:20] four, eight years, there's been huge engagement on-

[00:10:22] GARY: Oh, even more.

[00:10:23] I mean, when Obama got elected, he [00:10:25] got elected largely 'cause of young, a lot of young people voting-

[00:10:27] KYLE: Exactly, yeah ...

[00:10:27] GARY: rather

[00:10:28] KYLE: than old people. Yeah,

[00:10:28] GARY: yeah. Yeah.

[00:10:29] KYLE: So in Canada [00:10:30] it's, I don't know if it's a cultural thing or whatever else like that, but there just seems to, like, be very-

[00:10:34] GARY: Apathetic. [00:10:35] Yeah. Canadians are very apathetic.

[00:10:36] KYLE: I guess unless- They apologize ... unless you're older and then you try to protect your wealth or what? [00:10:40]

[00:10:41] GARY: Yeah. Or I just think people that are older, yeah, it'd be partially money. I think even people that are [00:10:45] donating to that in general are probably people that maybe have more means that would take, you know, 'cause basically what he's [00:10:50] doing is the J- the Justice Center for Constitutional Reforms, I think I said [00:10:55] that right, is basically taking on cases for people where [00:11:00] injustices have been done-

[00:11:00] KYLE: Yeah

[00:11:01] GARY: and the people are unable to defend themselves for financial [00:11:05] reasons or just-

[00:11:05] KYLE: Yeah ...

[00:11:06] GARY: or even just the matter of, hey, this is not constitutionally acceptable. Yeah. [00:11:10] And, and so, you know, I gave the example of my brother who, who had used them, and then other people have been fired [00:11:15] through COVID for not taking the vaccine or whatever the case may be, and, and they've taken on [00:11:20] lots of these cases.

[00:11:20] So they do good work, and they t- in all lines, like not just COVID stuff, like they're [00:11:25] perpetually fighting for people that- Yeah ... you know, I think, I think they do do good work. [00:11:30] Um, they're, I've said on here before, I think they're pretty militant, so I mean, they always strike me as... But I mean, when you're [00:11:35] fighting, then you're militant, right?

[00:11:36] And that's what they're doing, they're fighting for people's rights, so. I knew, I knew

[00:11:37] KYLE: very little about him- Okay ... like u- until you told me who John [00:11:40] Carpay was with your brother saying how he- Did

[00:11:41] GARY: you find his talk pretty interesting or how, how, how did he do? I mean, I just stepped, [00:11:45] stopped in briefly- Um

[00:11:45] but I

[00:11:46] KYLE: didn't stick around. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, he's, like it was about, it was a 20-minute talk and [00:11:50] then the rest- Okay. Very

[00:11:51] GARY: short.

[00:11:51] KYLE: Yeah, and the rest of the time was just Q&A. Okay. Um, it was interesting. He [00:11:55] actually said, and I wanna ask him about this, 'cause he's gonna come on the podcast. He said that we, the, the way we fight all these [00:12:00] issues is that, um, politics is downstream from culture.

[00:12:03] He goes, like the culture needs [00:12:05] to change, and then if the culture changes, the politics changes, and everything else will filter through. But [00:12:10] the opposite has been happening the last 30 years is culture's been changing, and that's filtered into the politics. [00:12:15] And, and I, so I asked him, I said, "How does culture change?"

[00:12:18] And he said, his response was like, [00:12:20] "Educate yourselves. Uh, you know, get, you know, talk about these issues with other people-" Mm-hmm "... things like that." And I'm like, [00:12:25] "Nah, I'm not sure if that's how culture changes." Like, I think culture changes through [00:12:30] revival. Like I, I don't know any other way how you can get a massive [00:12:35] population to shift their morals on to, [00:12:40] I mean, what would, would be Judeo-Christian values of respect and like, you know, [00:12:45] honor and, and, and putting other people first and- Yeah

[00:12:47] all, all things like that. Like that comes from a fou- that's a [00:12:50] foundational worldview, and it doesn't just come from ed-educating yourselves on these issues. It comes [00:12:55] from like, well why, why do these things matter in the first place? Yeah. And so he [00:13:00] didn't, he didn't give that response at all. He totally stayed away from, um, the religious s- [00:13:05] Chri- Christian side of things.

[00:13:06] And I'm like, well, there, you, there's no foundation then. [00:13:10] So I don't know how that's gonna work. So I'm, I, I, he agreed to come on the podcast though, so I think I'm, uh, [00:13:15] interviewing him till June 20th or 21st, so.

[00:13:16] GARY: Would you do it in person or not?

[00:13:19] KYLE: No, I'll be [00:13:20] online.

[00:13:20] GARY: Online.

[00:13:20] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:13:20] GARY: Okay.

[00:13:21] KYLE: He's in Calgary, so.

[00:13:22] GARY: Okay.

[00:13:23] He's out here quite a bit. [00:13:25]

[00:13:25] KYLE: Okay. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I, I, I emailed him and asked him if we could do it in person. When it works. When it works. So we'll see. Okay. Maybe [00:13:30] it'll change, but.

[00:13:31] GARY: Interesting.

[00:13:32] KYLE: Yeah. Did

[00:13:33] GARY: you do anything else exciting this [00:13:35] weekend?

[00:13:36] KYLE: No.

[00:13:37] GARY: No?

[00:13:39] KYLE: [00:13:40] Yeah. Except for, uh, watched Montreal get to the conference finals- Yeah

[00:13:44] [00:13:45] and beat Buffalo.

[00:13:45] GARY: I did. I watched the game too.

[00:13:47] KYLE: We, uh, as a whole family, we did a, before the playoffs started, every- [00:13:50] Malachi and Peter and Nicole and me both did our bracket- Did the bracket? ... whole full bracket- Okay ... and they're hanging on the wall. And [00:13:55] so we're all competing as a family on a, on- Did

[00:13:57] GARY: any put Montreal in the...?

[00:13:59] KYLE: I did.

[00:13:59] GARY: [00:14:00] Okay.

[00:14:00] KYLE: Yeah. I did Montreal or, or theirs final. So-

[00:14:03] GARY: Okay ...

[00:14:04] KYLE: I am, uh- [00:14:05]

[00:14:05] GARY: 50% of the way there.

[00:14:06] KYLE: Yeah. I'm winning.

[00:14:07] GARY: You're winning the rest of

[00:14:09] KYLE: the time. Yeah.

[00:14:09] GARY: [00:14:10] It's

[00:14:10] KYLE: fine.

[00:14:10] GARY: I didn't-- I mean, I didn't watch all the games in detail, just periodically bits and pieces. But, like, one of [00:14:15] the other games I watched where Montreal won, I thought Boston was the better team, and I actually thought they were the better team last [00:14:20] night too.

[00:14:20] I thought they actually played a better game.

[00:14:21] KYLE: Yeah. I think Buffalo did.

[00:14:22] GARY: Y- sorry, did I say Boston? Yeah. Yeah, sorry. [00:14:25]

[00:14:25] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:14:25] GARY: Anyways, Buffalo.

[00:14:26] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:14:26] GARY: Yeah. I, I felt like Buffalo played better in the series, and y- doesn't [00:14:30] normally happen in a seven-game series where you'd-- And because some of the games are just such lopsided blowouts, right?[00:14:35]

[00:14:35] Where, you know-

[00:14:36] KYLE: Yeah ...

[00:14:36] GARY: Buffalo just smoked them game six, but-

[00:14:38] KYLE: Yeah. I mean, now I think the [00:14:40] Hurricanes are gonna just walk over Montreal. I- And I think the Avalanche-

[00:14:43] GARY: Why do people think that? Just 'cause they swept the [00:14:45] first two series?

[00:14:45] KYLE: They're just a stacked team. Are they that good? Yeah.

[00:14:47] GARY: Okay.

[00:14:47] KYLE: And on the other side too, like, I don't see the A- like [00:14:50] the, the Knights beating.

[00:14:51] I think it's gonna be Avalanche, Avalanche-Hurricanes final, and that'll be a [00:14:55] tough series,

[00:14:57] GARY: but-

[00:14:59] KYLE: No opinion? [00:15:00]

[00:15:00] GARY: Uh, I could see Montreal, I could see Montreal taking out-

[00:15:03] KYLE: Yeah ...

[00:15:03] GARY: Canes. Although their goalie, [00:15:05] I feel like Montreal, I mean, everybody says he's a great goalie, the rookie, the guy that's in goal. Yeah. But I don't know, [00:15:10] I feel like he's-- I felt like neither goalie played that well in that series.

[00:15:14] KYLE: Hmm. [00:15:15]

[00:15:15] GARY: So, and I always feel like you have to have a phenomenal goal- goal- goalie. But yeah, they still, they got a, [00:15:20] you got a fighting chance, I think. I don't think it's beneficial to have a 12-day break, right? It's a 12-day gap between- Yeah, [00:15:25] yeah. It's a big gap ... the two series. I think it's the largest gap there's ever been.

[00:15:27] That's a lot of days of not playing.

[00:15:29] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:15:29] GARY: So the one [00:15:30] team's played 14 games now, like Montreal's played 14, and Canes have played eight, so.

[00:15:34] KYLE: Yeah. [00:15:35] But your body gets more beat up too. I mean, there's gotta be something for that. Those guys are getting [00:15:40] hammered.

[00:15:41] GARY: They get hammered.

[00:15:42] KYLE: And the Canucks got rid of their coach.

[00:15:44] GARY: Yeah.

[00:15:44] KYLE: I think [00:15:45] Manny Malholtra from the Abbotsford Canucks is gonna-- who was in the Cup run in 2010 is gonna be the new head coach.

[00:15:49] GARY: [00:15:50] Yeah.

[00:15:51] KYLE: It'll be fun to watch.

[00:15:52] GARY: I hope he doesn't, for his sake.

[00:15:54] KYLE: Why? [00:15:55]

[00:15:55] GARY: Uh, 'cause any time, if you get put in any position of authority or power at the Vancouver Canucks, it's essentially [00:16:00] bad for your reputation and for your popularity in the city.

[00:16:02] So like why not just stay a [00:16:05] legend and just stay out of the role? Like, unless you really need the money. His

[00:16:07] KYLE: legend is just losing an eye during the Cup run.

[00:16:09] GARY: Yeah, [00:16:10] playing hockey, but you know what I'm trying to say? Like, why do you think Trevor Linden's never [00:16:15] been the GM or the coach or- He

[00:16:16] KYLE: was.

[00:16:17] GARY: I don't think he was the GM.

[00:16:18] Yeah. Yeah, he

[00:16:18] KYLE: was

[00:16:18] GARY: the president for a while. No, he was of [00:16:20] operations, but those people never get fired. He was never in a position- He was fired ... where he could be fired. You gonna search it in a [00:16:25] minute?

[00:16:25] KYLE: Yes.

[00:16:25] GARY: Anyways, you get my point. In pl- in sports, the lifespan of these coaches, they [00:16:30] basically regurgitate the same coaches throughout the NHL over and over.

[00:16:33] All the same coaches. Like [00:16:35] you got Joel Quenneville, he was there in the s- sex scandal back in the playoff run of 2013 [00:16:40] with the Blackhawks.

[00:16:41] KYLE: What'd you call it?

[00:16:41] GARY: Well, it was like a sex scandal, right? There was basically a player that was abused during- [00:16:45] Oh,

[00:16:45] KYLE: yeah, yeah,

[00:16:45] GARY: yeah ... a sexual abuse scandal. It's like, well-

[00:16:47] KYLE: Yeah

[00:16:47] GARY: you know, he's still coaching in the NHL. Like, it's the old boys [00:16:50] club, right?

[00:16:50] KYLE: He was president of hockey operations. Yeah. And they amicably agreed [00:16:55] to part ways in June of 2018. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, that's basically- He

[00:16:59] GARY: saw the writing on the wall. [00:17:00] Yeah. Well,

[00:17:00] KYLE: the Canadians are-- Yeah, I mean, it'll be interesting.

[00:17:03] It, it is interesting, uh, I, I was, [00:17:05] um, meeting with someone last week who does work for the Acquinis and, um, a- and [00:17:10] he said that, uh, Francesco is a t- super tough guy to work for and is very [00:17:15] involved in, in the, the Canucks still and in the, their decisions and gets medals into trades and blocks [00:17:20] trades and things like that.

[00:17:20] And I'm like, any time, you know, you have a, an owner or a board of a [00:17:25] company that gets-

[00:17:25] GARY: That doesn't stay in their lane ... doesn't

[00:17:26] KYLE: stay in their lane and gets involved in like, uh, what the [00:17:30] CEO is doing, like it's, it's not, not gonna work well long term. [00:17:35]

[00:17:35] GARY: Do you think it matters that much who the coach is of an NHL hockey team?

[00:17:38] KYLE: Yes, I do.

[00:17:39] GARY: You do?

[00:17:39] KYLE: Yes. [00:17:40]

[00:17:40] GARY: Okay.

[00:17:41] KYLE: Yeah, I think it matters a ton. Especially talking to, when I coached David Booth and, and [00:17:45] I heard him, you know, discuss the different coaches and stuff like that and how, how motivated he [00:17:50] wor- was to-

[00:17:51] GARY: Play for certain

[00:17:52] KYLE: guys- Yeah ...

[00:17:52] GARY: and not others.

[00:17:53] KYLE: Yeah. Yeah. Like Tortorella, he said it was [00:17:55] just awful.

[00:17:55] He said he was 15 minutes, 10 minutes early to a meeting one time. Um, I [00:18:00] think they were playing Phoenix in, it was in Phoenix, and it wasn't early enough. So I don't know [00:18:05] if he c- remember if he get told he got sent down or something else like that, but he did, they just- Just childish ... [00:18:10] just tore a strip off of him.

[00:18:10] Just like weird things like that. Um, but then like Pete DeBoer he said was just [00:18:15] awesome and, and a few other guys and, um, I think the guy that before Adam [00:18:20] Foote was really good as well. I think it's 'cause he took the time to get to know the players. Do you

[00:18:24] GARY: know that some have so many [00:18:25] coaches, man? It's, it's just embarrassing.

[00:18:26] I

[00:18:26] KYLE: think it's every team.

[00:18:28] GARY: Ah, some have stretches. Like [00:18:30] John Cooper's been in Tampa Bay a very long time.

[00:18:32] KYLE: That's true, yeah.

[00:18:32] GARY: Seven or eight years probably. Helps that I think [00:18:35] he won two Cups with them. It's gonna be- Yeah ... he's got a lot more runway, but I don't know. I just think [00:18:40] if you don't have continuity, like how do you build something awesome when you have constant revolving door of people that are in [00:18:45] leadership

[00:18:45] KYLE: and- Yeah

[00:18:45] GARY: with the players and the coaching staff. So, I mean, they can to everybody, right? Yeah. Like there's the whole slate, so. Yeah. Yeah,

[00:18:49] KYLE: I [00:18:50] mean, it's in companies. It's a

[00:18:51] GARY: lot of hockey,

[00:18:51] KYLE: man. It's in, it's in companies as well. Yeah. Right? Like if [00:18:55] leadership starts from the top.

[00:18:56] GARY: Yeah.

[00:18:57] KYLE: And, uh, yeah [00:19:00]

[00:19:01] GARY: Anyways,

[00:19:02] KYLE: that's

[00:19:02] GARY: the most we've ever talked about sports before on this podcast.

[00:19:04] KYLE: We [00:19:05] talked about Formula 1 I think like 50 episodes ago. That's

[00:19:08] GARY: your passion.

[00:19:08] KYLE: Which sucks this year.

[00:19:09] GARY: That's your idol. [00:19:10] Why?

[00:19:10] KYLE: Because they got all new regulations, so they're 50% electric this year.

[00:19:14] GARY: Are you serious?

[00:19:14] KYLE: [00:19:15] Yeah, yeah.

[00:19:15] GARY: There's electric cars in the Formula

[00:19:16] KYLE: 1? Their f- half their power is electric. 50% electric, [00:19:20] 50%.

[00:19:20] And so they like, it, it's just, it's not the same at all. And so there's actually a decent revolts [00:19:25] among fans and even drivers. And so apparently in 2030 they're gonna go back to V8s and, and, uh, drop the [00:19:30] electric and-

[00:19:30] GARY: What do you mean half and half? Like, are they running hybrids of sorts?

[00:19:32] KYLE: Yeah. Yeah. And so they have to like battery [00:19:35] power, and they have to like coast in the corner sometimes to like recharge their battery so they can use it as boost again.

[00:19:39] And [00:19:40] they had that to a certain aga- degree already last time, but it was like 20% or something. And [00:19:45] so it's, it's just like-

[00:19:46] GARY: Why would they do that? Literally to appease the leaf-licking, bean-eating [00:19:50] vegans? Or what are we

[00:19:50] KYLE: doing here? I think it's a part of that, and I think it's also the manif- the, um, the technology that goes into these [00:19:55] things, um, gets used in the cars later on, 'cause a lot of hybrids, right, like on the road.[00:20:00]

[00:20:00] And, and so they

[00:20:00] GARY: like- I thought it was purely about entertainment and, uh, horsepower.

[00:20:04] KYLE: No, I mean, there's so [00:20:05] much more than that.

[00:20:05] GARY: Loud horsepower, ideally. I mean, 'cause electric cars are obviously super quiet.

[00:20:07] KYLE: Well, they have Formula E. Like they have-

[00:20:09] GARY: [00:20:10] Okay. They already have that- They have

[00:20:10] KYLE: that whole thing ... I was gonna

[00:20:11] GARY: use

[00:20:11] KYLE: a

[00:20:11] GARY: derogatory term, but-

[00:20:12] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:20:13] GARY: You know where I was going with [00:20:15] that. Oh, dear.

[00:20:16] KYLE: Yeah. So-

[00:20:19] GARY: Okay ... [00:20:20]

[00:20:20] KYLE: anyways, it was a good podcast, guys.

[00:20:22] GARY: I'm still thinking about your MC.

[00:20:24] KYLE: [00:20:25] Oh, did you like it?

[00:20:26] GARY: Yeah. I mean, I don't... I'm glad it was you, not me. I mean, I [00:20:30] don't know what's worse, like the- I, I

[00:20:31] KYLE: was pretty PG and kept it-

[00:20:33] GARY: It was, yeah, I mean, you did a few, [00:20:35] harassed a few people a bit too much, but-

[00:20:37] KYLE: I just like- You know

[00:20:38] DMf'ing

[00:20:38] GARY: harassing. No, no, no, no, no, [00:20:40] no, no, no, no, no, no, no names on the podcast. No names. Too far. [00:20:45] Too far. Not okay. It was too much.

[00:20:48] KYLE: I give, get, I got a, I got a middle [00:20:50] finger

[00:20:50] GARY: for that one. Yeah, that makes sense.

[00:20:53] KYLE: Yeah. [00:20:55]

[00:20:55] GARY: Anyways, I don't have anything else to talk about. Oh, no, I did. I bought the impending, uh, global [00:21:00] economic crisis.

[00:21:00] That's what I wrote on my paper.

[00:21:01] KYLE: Okay. Well-

[00:21:02] GARY: I think I put it in the show notes too ... have

[00:21:03] KYLE: you talked about

[00:21:04] GARY: that [00:21:05] before? Hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day,

[00:21:07] KYLE: right? That's [00:21:10] good. Okay, talk.

[00:21:11] GARY: Um, well, it's just interesting. I don't- do you follow the, um, [00:21:15] you wouldn't follow the bond market at all? But it's, we're just in this weird time of, uh, [00:21:20] everybody's eyes glazed over that's not into e- macroeconomics.

[00:21:23] But basically, the bond market [00:21:25] is way bigger than the stock market, and the bond market's based off what all our debt that we borrow is kinda based [00:21:30] off that. The government's ability to borrow money is based off that. And all the, [00:21:35] um, long-term debt yields, uh, like what people are, countries are paying for [00:21:40] interest is skyrocketing, right?

[00:21:41] And it's just super interesting. Because

[00:21:44] KYLE: interest rates are [00:21:45] skyrocketing or?

[00:21:45] GARY: No, they just are. Like, because the abil- p- basically what's happening is investors that are lending [00:21:50] money are starting to realize that governments are not curtailing their spending.

[00:21:53] KYLE: Mm.

[00:21:53] GARY: And so now people, investors are [00:21:55] wanting a higher rate of return-

[00:21:56] KYLE: Mm

[00:21:57] GARY: um, to lend money to governments. So you [00:22:00] have, like, the 30-year US bond pri- uh, yield is the highest it's ever been, I think, in history, if I'm [00:22:05] not mistaken. Okay. Or it's probably not in history, but in 30 years or- Yeah ... something, 40 years. And the Japanese is high [00:22:10] as well. It's 'cause these countries are doing, have prolific spending, right?

[00:22:13] KYLE: They're just making their own rules, too, on the whole [00:22:15] thing. I mean, it's gonna, it's gonna collapse. I don't know, like-

[00:22:16] GARY: Well, that's, I guess that was the whole point. I joke about my global gleam [00:22:20] economic crisis, but it's, it's definitely a sovereign debt crisis that's literally unfolding before our eyes, and most people don't even know what [00:22:25] that means.

[00:22:25] They don't know how it affects them, and I don't even know how it affects me. I have a lot of debt, right? Millions of dollars in debt, and I [00:22:30] always think, you know, I've always been, in the last months I've said, like, you know, "Don't fix your [00:22:35] rate. The rates are coming down." And I still think they have to come down.

[00:22:37] I think rates have to come down based on what's happening [00:22:40] in our general society financially for most people, yet everything is saying that rates are actually [00:22:45] gonna go higher, which is why even my bank would say, like, "Well, you should've fixed a year ago. You should be fixing for five years now. [00:22:50] Rates are gonna go higher in the fall, this fall."

[00:22:52] Um, I don't buy it. I just think something [00:22:55] else will break. But ultimately, governments or people need to get their spending in control, [00:23:00] otherwise, uh, the dollars that we carry are, are just really becoming really worthless.

[00:23:04] KYLE: How long until a [00:23:05] cashless society?

[00:23:07] GARY: Ah, we'll never have a cashless society. No? I mean, they're trying to make us...

[00:23:09] No, they're trying to [00:23:10] make us do that now, but a lot of us are realizing that's what's happening, so people are, people hoard cash like never [00:23:15] before.

[00:23:15] KYLE: It's like- Like- What if it's cash is like, they're just gonna say that's not, you know, we're not

[00:23:18] GARY: gonna use it. Well, there will be a black [00:23:20] market currency. It, it'll all of a sudden have value.

[00:23:22] Yeah. Silver coins. Yeah. It'll be silver coins and gold and, you [00:23:25] know, the seven of you gold bugs that are listening to this are just rubbing your hands together thinking your time has finally come. [00:23:30] Matt. Yeah. Yeah, Matt and a few others, and myself. I mean, the idea of it makes [00:23:35] sense I think the issue where I struggle with investing in gold and [00:23:40] silver, um, in large amounts would just be the idea it doesn't create anything, right?

[00:23:44] Like, it's [00:23:45] obviously a great value storing of wealth, has been over, you know, millennial, so that [00:23:50] makes sense. It's more when you're trying to actually build something and you're trying to be a good steward of your [00:23:55] resources, to me it makes way more sense to own a business or to buy... It still makes more sense to buy [00:24:00] stocks.

[00:24:00] That's what's really weird, too. Normally, when the bond yields are climbing like they are now, screaming higher, [00:24:05] the S&P 500 wouldn't be at an all-time high, but it's currently at an all-time high, with oil prices [00:24:10] being-

[00:24:10] KYLE: Yeah ...

[00:24:10] GARY: the highest they've been in, in a long time. So-

[00:24:12] KYLE: I think, I think it's best to just keep everything as, [00:24:15] uh, for investment, as localized as possible.

[00:24:17] Like, not in, in these things that are [00:24:20] far away that you don't actually have any, very little influence in. What does

[00:24:23] GARY: that mean to you specifically

[00:24:24] KYLE: then? Like, have a business [00:24:25] yourself that's providing value. Yeah,

[00:24:25] GARY: but let's just say you can't. Let's say you work at a job and you're... Let's just say you're a doctor and you made $300,000 [00:24:30] or $400,000

[00:24:30] KYLE: a year.

[00:24:30] Buy, buy real estate in your own town. Like, start there. Like-

[00:24:33] GARY: What about if you don't wanna own real estate, you don't [00:24:35] want the headache of dealing with a renter? Like-

[00:24:37] KYLE: I just say that- Would,

[00:24:37] GARY: would you be against buying so- stocks?

[00:24:38] KYLE: No, I'm not against it. I'm just [00:24:40] saying, a- and I've done it a bunch myself, I'm just saying that I think it's best to keep your [00:24:45] money as- Okay

[00:24:45] localized a- as possible- Okay ... where you have the most direct influence on

[00:24:49] GARY: it. Okay. [00:24:50] It's interesting you say that, 'cause I invested in an apartment building in 2006 in Chilliwack.

[00:24:54] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:24:54] GARY: [00:24:55] Um, and I l- lost money on it.

[00:24:57] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:24:57] GARY: I finally got my last payment in [00:25:00] 2013 or '14. I took friends' money and invested it.

[00:25:02] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:25:02] GARY: Like, mostly friend, a lot of friends' money. [00:25:05] Paid them all back in the interim with money that I had made doing other stuff. And the one thing I swore coming [00:25:10] out of that, you know, you make these vows to yourself, I made a vow that if I ever lost money again, I would just lose it all on my own. I [00:25:15] wouldn't let someone else take it and lose it, right?

[00:25:17] Um, and now it's interesting 'cause I've gotten to the spot where it's [00:25:20] like, oh, I have these things that I'm, projects, real estate ventures I'm doing and business that I'm doing where people said, "Hey, you know, [00:25:25] can I be a partner? Do I wanna... Can I put money in there?" And so far, I've always been reluctant to do [00:25:30] that for the sake of, like, just the weight of carrying someone else's- Yeah

[00:25:33] even though I think there's a lot of opportunity to make [00:25:35] people money, and a lot of the businesses I'm involved in are pretty stable and, and decent. I mean, and none of them [00:25:40] are lucrative. That's the one thing that I'm sure you've heard it from friends too, who have lost a lot [00:25:45] of money, people that get into things, anytime the return, I would say about, is above 8% or [00:25:50] 10%, you can assume that there's some serious risk involved.

[00:25:52] Yeah. Not that you can't make 20%. Lots of guys I know made [00:25:55] 20% every year- Or more ... for a long time, or more, or 40%. Um, but when you start talking above 8% to [00:26:00] 10%, you're going into a realm where, you know, if you look at any good business on the S&P 500 or just business in [00:26:05] general, after they pay all their costs- It's so hard for-

[00:26:07] it's pretty hard to net- Yeah ... net more than 10%, right? [00:26:10] So- It's

[00:26:10] KYLE: so hard for people to see that upfront, though. When like, when they just see the dollar signs of what could be.

[00:26:14] GARY: Yeah.

[00:26:14] KYLE: [00:26:15] And it- And, and then they don't know. It'll be like, "I understand I'm gonna have this risk" or whatever else like that, until the money's [00:26:20] gone.

[00:26:20] And then- Yeah ... that's when people are like, "Oh-

[00:26:24] GARY: Yeah.

[00:26:24] KYLE: Well, that's [00:26:25] just, that's history, I guess. It's always been that way.

[00:26:27] GARY: Yeah.

[00:26:27] KYLE: But you're the [00:26:30] borrower is a slave-

[00:26:31] GARY: Slave to the lender ... to the lender. Yeah. So be the lender. [00:26:35]

[00:26:35] KYLE: Have lots of slaves.

[00:26:38] GARY: Well, that's where you can make 8 [00:26:40] to 10% pretty easily is lending out money.

[00:26:41] Like, there's, that's not that complicated, right? Yeah. Doesn't the [00:26:45] Bible

[00:26:45] KYLE: say you shouldn't charge interest?

[00:26:46] GARY: Uh, no, it doesn't say that. I've been reading about that a lot. Right. [00:26:50] Even "Money, Possessions, Eternity," the Randy Alcorn book, he talks about that- Yeah ... 'cause I was feeling pretty convicted about that.

[00:26:54] Okay. Um, I [00:26:55] think that it's Um, not right to lend money to people that are, [00:27:00] um... So, like use- That are, that are poor ... user- that are really poor that really shouldn't just be borrowing the [00:27:05] money. So anything like payday loans would be an extreme example- Yeah ... 'cause that's the, you know, people that are really [00:27:10] poverty-stricken, and they're paying 40% interest or whatever the maximum allowed is in Canada.

[00:27:13] Yeah. That's awful. I think it's 38% or something [00:27:15] like that, and they get around those maximum percentages by charging administrative [00:27:20] fees, so it's even way higher. Mm. And I used to hang out with people that used those services, and I could not [00:27:25] believe it, right? It's back, back when I... Um, but I think the idea of somebody...

[00:27:29] I'll give you a [00:27:30] good example. If you were a real estate developer in, in Lower Mainland here, um, you know, [00:27:35] people that were well-established would be going to Envision or some other credit union or bank, and they'd be able to get the money for the [00:27:40] project. They'd have most of the money for the dirt or all the money for the dirt.

[00:27:42] They'd be able to go get a construction loan for the building. Well, [00:27:45] any tier two or, for sure, tier three real estate investor would literally be going to a private [00:27:50] financer and saying, "Hey, do you wanna partner with me on this?" Or, you know, typically land in our valley has [00:27:55] gone up at 8% a year every single year.

[00:27:57] So I will borrow the money on a short-term basis at two [00:28:00] years, let's say, on a two-year term, and pay 10 to 12%. Yeah. Um, and that is way more common than people [00:28:05] realize. Yeah. And actually, what happened in the last run-up in '21 and '22 is that a lot [00:28:10] of people had a first mortgage from a bank or from someone else at 8 or 10%, and then they went and got a second mortgage [00:28:15] behind that mortgage, and that's where the real problems are coming in now- Yeah

[00:28:17] in the Lower Mainland and in Toronto, is [00:28:20] paying 15%. Um, and then the minute that equity's gone, if you're a second mortgage holder, [00:28:25] you know, the minute the, the value, property devalues by 20%, which is what's happening right now or maybe even more, [00:28:30] if it, you lose all your money. Yeah. Because you're the second, so the f- you know, it goes in order, right?

[00:28:34] Yeah. Um, [00:28:35] so you're seeing that. I can see that on the real estate side when I look at the foreclosures. Yeah. You can look at the title of the [00:28:40] properties and just- Yeah ... see the bloodletting that's happening, right? So-

[00:28:42] KYLE: Greed.

[00:28:43] GARY: I mean, I don't know. I'm always [00:28:45] struggled with people labeling it as greed right away because ultimately the world is benefited by [00:28:50] risk-takers, and people take some level of risk and being somewhat, like-

[00:28:53] KYLE: Yeah, but I think

[00:28:54] GARY: a lot

[00:28:54] KYLE: of [00:28:55] those people- Like, we need capitalists

[00:28:56] taking those second mortgages

[00:28:58] GARY: are people that probably- Were just overextending themselves. Yeah. [00:29:00] Yeah, that, that's probably fair. Like, I, I- As a general rule of thumb,

[00:29:01] KYLE: probably not ... agree risk is good, but there is, like...

[00:29:04] GARY: Yeah, [00:29:05] and there again, it's, if it's fueled simply by the sake of making gobs of money, which obviously, there again, it's always fueled [00:29:10] by making money 'cause, you know, that's why people are doing these projects for the most part.

[00:29:13] Um, I, I [00:29:15] just feel like, yeah, we need people to be speculating. We need people to be pushing in our [00:29:20] society in order for it to work. And actually, interestingly enough, I think now when you get into a period that we're in now where you get [00:29:25] in a real trough where, like, people are getting their heads cut off- Mm

[00:29:27] left, right, and center, it creates too much [00:29:30] fear. Yeah. And pretty soon you have a situation where there's no growth- The other way around. Yeah ... and, and the pendulum will swing the other way, [00:29:35] right? So-

[00:29:35] KYLE: But don't you think business in, in a whole though should always still have, like, value first mentality, [00:29:40] not profit first?

[00:29:41] Like, if you're solely- Of

[00:29:42] GARY: course it does, and, and I think any builder that's building [00:29:45] would argue that that's what they're doing. They're trying to build a decent product that people could live in and enjoy. [00:29:50]

[00:29:50] KYLE: But also I, I, I see a lot of businesses not, not being that way. No? And then being like, [00:29:55] first, profit is number one.

[00:29:56] Like, if they were actually honest about their mission, uh, uh, of their, [00:30:00] of their company, it wouldn't be to, you know, provide, like, real great value. But [00:30:05] I think that goes back to having Judeo-Christian values of, like, what is the business for? Like, it's like to pr- [00:30:10] to, you're providing a solution for an, a need, right?

[00:30:13] Like that's, that's what it [00:30:15] comes down to. And so if it comes down to just being profit-driven, that's when you have, you [00:30:20] know, Tim Horton's going to shit, because it's not about- They're just

[00:30:22] GARY: trying to take more and more money out of this thing and everything there sucks ... exactly. So [00:30:25] it's not about a great- The food's the worst.

[00:30:26] Nobody should eat the food at Tim Horton's. Exactly.

[00:30:27] KYLE: So

[00:30:27] GARY: but- Definitely beat yourself with a wet pool noodle [00:30:30] if you eat food at Tim Horton's.

[00:30:31] KYLE: Or drink that crap.

[00:30:32] GARY: Oh, yeah.

[00:30:33] KYLE: I mean- Well,

[00:30:33] GARY: the coffee, whatever. But the, [00:30:35] the

[00:30:35] KYLE: food is an abomination. If you're, like, if you're ru- running an organization like that, it's just like, no, you wanna provide good [00:30:40] value, right?

[00:30:40] Yeah. And then, like, in the food or whatever the product, produ- pr- thing you're producing. And [00:30:45] so I think especially with private equity money or, like, these huge hedge funds, stuff like that, that's when it, [00:30:50] like, all becomes-

[00:30:50] GARY: Private equity is cratering right now. Have you read any of those articles? No. Do you follow any of this stuff?

[00:30:54] [00:30:55] Private equity's in deep trouble.

[00:30:56] KYLE: Okay.

[00:30:57] GARY: Yeah. Private equity was, like, the buzzword for the last decade, and [00:31:00] now it's just every single private equity fund that they're, many of them are going broke. There's, they're [00:31:05] losing money. They're- Well,

[00:31:06] KYLE: all these companies- ... they're gating their funds ... are also like, "Oh, we wanna get this ready, company ready to sell, so we have to turn up [00:31:10] all these knobs to make it- Yeah

[00:31:10] seem greater than it is." Yeah. Like, that whole idea, I'm like, "No, that's, that's [00:31:15] bad."

[00:31:16] GARY: There's parts of it that probably are okay, but I, I think- Not to the

[00:31:19] KYLE: extreme that

[00:31:19] GARY: they're- ...

[00:31:19] KYLE: because of

[00:31:19] GARY: [00:31:20] blank statement. N- yeah, you're probably not wrong.

[00:31:22] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:31:22] GARY: Yeah.

[00:31:23] KYLE: What's going on with this fund that I heard the [00:31:25] Canadian government wants to start about, like, that you can buy debt from the government or something?

[00:31:29] GARY: Oh, it's just a [00:31:30] Ponzi scheme, right? It's basically like the sovereign wealth fund idea. Yeah. Yeah, that. So other [00:31:35] countries do it, and they do it really well. Okay,

[00:31:36] KYLE: so what is it in a, in a nutshell?

[00:31:38] GARY: Um, I will butcher it. So I [00:31:40] will... You can put the, the Loonie Hour from two episodes ago has, like, a [00:31:45] long, uh, running gamut on it.

[00:31:46] Yeah. Much more well-spoken than I would do. Uh, you could put that in the show [00:31:50] notes if people wanted- Yeah ... to hear about it. Um, it will be another way that our [00:31:55] government will, um, hide behind huge, their huge deficits [00:32:00] and justify their huge deficits. That's what I would, how I would explain it. But they're, essentially the [00:32:05] idea would be that you would invest in other countries and other places, right?

[00:32:09] KYLE: Like [00:32:10] practically

[00:32:10] GARY: Um, or even your own country, I think. But basically, like Norway has a [00:32:15] su- successful one, so that was the example that they used on the Loonie Hour.

[00:32:18] KYLE: Okay. Here, so the new proposed-

[00:32:19] GARY: Yeah ...

[00:32:19] KYLE: [00:32:20] one is called Canadian Strong Fund. The federal government wants to start with, it's about $25 billion and then use it to [00:32:25] invest in big Canadian projects and companies.

[00:32:26] GARY: Okay. Local projects, yeah.

[00:32:27] KYLE: Think of it like this.

[00:32:28] GARY: So how do you think that's gonna go? What do you think's gonna [00:32:30] happen with that?

[00:32:30] KYLE: Let's go

[00:32:30] GARY: through that. It's gonna go

[00:32:31] KYLE: to natives.

[00:32:32] GARY: Well, not even that. It'll just be how, how... [00:32:35] Is anything gonna get run efficiently-

[00:32:36] KYLE: No ...

[00:32:37] GARY: and honestly, and with no bribing [00:32:40] and no, and ethically that's run by our, our federal government?

[00:32:43] KYLE: No.

[00:32:43] GARY: Highly unlikely. So [00:32:45] anyways, if you believe that's a great fund, then I got a bridge to sell you.

[00:32:48] KYLE: Yeah. All right.

[00:32:49] GARY: And I [00:32:50] better sell it to you 'cause there's not a chance they'll get one bill with that fund. I mean, that's the other thing, right? They sp- have all these [00:32:55] programs and platforms for building houses, and nothing ever gets done.

[00:32:57] It's just a disaster. It's

[00:32:58] KYLE: terrible.

[00:32:58] GARY: Terrible, terrible, terrible.

[00:32:59] KYLE: [00:33:00] And A, it rarely gets talked about. I mean, they're all pa- I mean, everyone's part of the co- wheel and the cog, right? And the, and the [00:33:05] wheel keeps getting bigger.

[00:33:06] GARY: Yeah.

[00:33:06] KYLE: Uh, because people don't wanna be the one-

[00:33:07] GARY: Definitely a few spokes need to get yanked out.

[00:33:09] KYLE: The [00:33:10] wheel needs to get blown up.

[00:33:11] GARY: The wheel needs to get blown up. Okay.

[00:33:12] KYLE: Anyways, something else is going on today. It is, we're [00:33:15] recording here on, uh, May 19th, and so this is not gonna get published till next week, Wednesday. But, [00:33:20] so last week, if you're listening to this right now, last week Tuesday, there was an election, [00:33:25] uh, for, uh, Thomas Massie.

[00:33:27] Um, he's the, a guy in Kentucky. [00:33:30] Um, which is really interesting because, um, he's one of the few Republicans, [00:33:35] uh, he's K- Kentucky congressman, but he was one of the few Republicans that voted against, um, a bunch of [00:33:40] the spending bills that, uh, the Trump administration put forward through, through Congress. [00:33:45] And also he, um, pushed to, uh, for the release of the Epstein files.

[00:33:49] Um, [00:33:50] and-

[00:33:50] GARY: Doesn't everybody push for the release of the Epstein files?

[00:33:52] KYLE: No. No.

[00:33:53] GARY: Are you serious?

[00:33:53] KYLE: No, like he had a hard [00:33:55] time getting, like, uh, the amount of signatures he did. I think he only got, like, seven or eight signatures to get this thing [00:34:00] passed, uh, uh, um, or, or on the floor. And so he votes with Republicans, like, [00:34:05] 90% of the time.

[00:34:06] But because he voted against Trump's spending and he brought this [00:34:10] Epstein thing forward, Trump hates him. Blackballed

[00:34:12] GARY: him.

[00:34:12] KYLE: Blackballed him. Okay. Nothing to do with him, so they're having a, a, a [00:34:15] runoff for the, uh, elections this fall. And so Trump has this other candidate that he's, he's [00:34:20] pushed. And so he's-

[00:34:21] GARY: This is for the midterms?

[00:34:22] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:34:23] GARY: Okay.

[00:34:23] KYLE: And so he's gotten, like, [00:34:25] crap tons of money from small donors, the people that actually care about these issues, 'cause [00:34:30] he's like, actually like, "This is exactly what Trump campaigned on. All I'm doing is, Trump said release the files, no more [00:34:35] spending and stuff like that. That's, I'm still voting for those same things."

[00:34:37] 90% of his vote, the time he votes with Republicans on everything [00:34:40] else. So he's basically, like-

[00:34:41] GARY: Yeah ...

[00:34:42] KYLE: the most, like what he stands for is so [00:34:45] logical and normal, and they're just, just tr- trying to destroy him. And so I'm really [00:34:50] curious who's gonna win out, uh, on, on this.

[00:34:52] GARY: There's a vote today about that?

[00:34:53] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:34:54] GARY: Thomas [00:34:55] Massie?

[00:34:55] KYLE: Yeah. Okay. From Kentucky, yeah. So he's, uh, I forgot the name of the other guy that's, um, who- Do

[00:34:59] GARY: you know anything about the guy [00:35:00] he's running against?

[00:35:01] KYLE: That, but Tr- Trump b- Trump, uh, backed him. Okay. And, and, and, uh, the [00:35:05] whole, uh, the whole system.

[00:35:06] GARY: So. So, so he's a winner for sure.

[00:35:08] KYLE: Yeah. Well, he's [00:35:10] gonna, he's gonna say, he's gonna say, "Yes, sir."

[00:35:13] I mean, this is what I hate about, [00:35:15] uh, all, all this crap. It's just like, this isn't- Yeah.

[00:35:19] GARY: I don't [00:35:20] follow American politics that closely.

[00:35:22] KYLE: And I think this is just interesting when you have [00:35:25] someone that actually is principled, kind of like the Ben Sasse guy, that's just like, "No." Like-

[00:35:28] GARY: His, his name comes up a lot [00:35:30] on social media.

[00:35:30] I don't know if it's

[00:35:31] KYLE: because I've talked about him. Yeah, he's dying right now.

[00:35:32] GARY: Okay, he's dying. Okay.

[00:35:33] KYLE: We talked about it a couple weeks ago. Yeah. You forgot, you [00:35:35] forgot.

[00:35:35] GARY: No, no, I totally remember.

[00:35:39] KYLE: Yeah, but he's, he's, [00:35:40] uh, he's done a... I shared an article with him, from him today on, uh, on, uh, my, uh, Instagram story, [00:35:45] um, because-

[00:35:45] GARY: Lots of non-Christians are sharing his stuff, eh?

[00:35:47] KYLE: Okay, yeah. It's

[00:35:47] GARY: pretty cool.

[00:35:48] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:35:48] GARY: It's pretty cool.

[00:35:49] KYLE: Yeah, it's amazing how [00:35:50] God uses those different things. Yeah. But he, one of his things- Amazing articles ... one of his regrets was that he, uh, he said, "Have more babies." [00:35:55]

[00:35:55] GARY: Okay.

[00:35:55] KYLE: He said, like, "Have more kids."

[00:35:56] GARY: That, and take a Sabbath.

[00:35:57] KYLE: Yeah. He said the Sabbath thing, yeah.

[00:35:59] Take a Sabbath. So. [00:36:00]

[00:36:00] GARY: Yeah, don't work on the Sabbath. Anyways. Lots of other stuff-

[00:36:03] KYLE: It's the

[00:36:03] GARY: stuff

[00:36:03] KYLE: that matters. I mean, when all your [00:36:05] money's gone, uh, which is a good chance if this whole thing implodes in a couple years, like we, [00:36:10] we-

[00:36:10] GARY: No, the real question is once all your time is gone.

[00:36:12] KYLE: That too. Eternity. 'Cause

[00:36:13] GARY: that's-

[00:36:14] KYLE: But even [00:36:15] on just like a human standpoint, like it's your relationships, the family, the people you're around, like that's, that's what [00:36:20] matters.

[00:36:20] Like it was actually interesting, I went out for, uh, lunch with a guy last week from, uh, East Indian community [00:36:25] and, um, he had some lawyer tell him that his, his brother, um, [00:36:30] uh, one of his companies is, it was in his brother's name, and he's like, "You need to put it in your own name," and stuff like [00:36:35] that. Like, "What if he screws you?"

[00:36:35] And he's like, "What? What, he's not gonna, he's my brother." Like he, he would, he would- [00:36:40] If I can't

[00:36:40] GARY: trust him, who can I trust?

[00:36:41] KYLE: Dude, he, we would never do that. And then he's like, "Do you and your wi- you and your wife [00:36:45] have a separate bank account?" I'm like, "No." He's like, "Oh, uh, it's fine. White people, they always have separate bank accounts."

[00:36:48] They're just like- Is

[00:36:49] GARY: that what [00:36:50] he said?

[00:36:50] KYLE: Yeah, yeah. He's like, "They're so individualistic, like they can't trust each other. Like they, there's no like [00:36:55] brotherhood." It's like-

[00:36:56] GARY: I always find that interesting. I've walked alongside quite a few people that are struggling in their [00:37:00] marriages, and I'm always thinking like, and you've had it where you're separated, like at what point do you all of a sudden have that [00:37:05] conversation of like, "Hey, today's the day I go get a separate bank account"?

[00:37:07] Or do people already have a separate bank account- Nicole did ... and that's why they [00:37:10] struggle?

[00:37:10] KYLE: Nicole did halfway one, through one of our separations. She was like, "I don't know-" Right ... "if you're gonna go [00:37:15] straight or sideways, and so I'm getting a separate bank account." Right now

[00:37:17] GARY: it feels sideways, so.

[00:37:18] KYLE: And, uh- It's-

[00:37:18] I was just like, for me, it was just a [00:37:20] motivator to like work even harder at it. Yeah, stick

[00:37:22] GARY: together.

[00:37:22] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:37:22] GARY: Okay. Interesting.

[00:37:24] KYLE: [00:37:25] Yeah.

[00:37:26] GARY: Yeah, I just feel like anyways, I'm sure people have reasons for everything they do, and a lot of it would [00:37:30] just be childhood experiences or trust issues or, yeah

[00:37:33] KYLE: But just like you see in like, uh, the [00:37:35] Salvation Army, um, homeless shelter, like 95% white, right?

[00:37:39] [00:37:40] Like the-

[00:37:40] GARY: Where are we going with this conversation?

[00:37:42] KYLE: Well, the fact that I think in the, these other cultures that [00:37:45] like, um, community and having each other's back and like stick, sticking [00:37:50] together and like not as individualistic of a, of a culture-

[00:37:53] GARY: I don't know if I agree with that, Kyle. That's just in our community.

[00:37:54] [00:37:55] If you go to other parts of the world, there's all kinds of people of all races and nationalities living in squalor that are not [00:38:00] being cared for by fellow mankind, right? For

[00:38:01] KYLE: sure. But I mean, y- like for example, I was at the Vedder River last year, and I [00:38:05] see- Yeah ... a group of like 10 East Indian guys of different ages hanging out together for an afternoon at the [00:38:10] river, right?

[00:38:10] Like-

[00:38:11] GARY: Yeah ...

[00:38:11] KYLE: you just wouldn't see that, a group of white guys doing that, right? There is something about the fact that [00:38:15] in s- n- no secret that, uh, family and community and stuff [00:38:20] like that have just been- In some

[00:38:20] GARY: cultures in our country, in our

[00:38:21] KYLE: culture, yeah ... in third world countries have just been like it's all about the individual.[00:38:25]

[00:38:25] GARY: Yeah. Yeah, we do live in a very individualistic-

[00:38:27] KYLE: Yeah ... society Which I don't think long term is-

[00:38:29] GARY: Healthy ...

[00:38:29] KYLE: healthy. [00:38:30]

[00:38:30] GARY: No, I would agree with that.

[00:38:30] KYLE: Or how God designed it. We're meant for community.

[00:38:34] GARY: Yeah. [00:38:35] Yeah, I do, I definitely think that the minute that you're in that thought process of needing [00:38:40] things separate in your relationship, that would be, to me, that would be a big red flag of like, okay, you would really wanna [00:38:45] stop and say, "Hey, why am I like this?"

[00:38:46] And- So

[00:38:46] KYLE: what if you start off that way? I know, I know qu- quite a few guys that have, [00:38:50] um, well, not quite a few, a, a few guys that have like prenups and stuff

[00:38:53] GARY: and- That run the whole [00:38:55] idea of, "Hey, I just gotta protect myself here."

[00:38:56] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:38:58] GARY: Yeah, I would feel like if you're in that [00:39:00] headspace, you best just stay single.

[00:39:01] I mean, 'cause I don't know. I, I guess I would just find it very hard to have a gr- a [00:39:05] wonderful marriage and a trusting marriage when you have this negative thought in the back of your head. But of course, [00:39:10] people have reasons to think that way, so that's

[00:39:11] KYLE: fair. And it depends how you define marriage. I mean, marriage nowadays is not [00:39:15] something people think about as like, "Oh, I have to do this for the rest of my life," right?

[00:39:19] In secular culture, [00:39:20] people think about it more as like, "It doesn't work out in 10 years, we'll just divorce." [00:39:25]

[00:39:25] GARY: I don't know if they necessarily think that flippantly about it, but there definitely wouldn't be the commitment to [00:39:30] the idea of marriage that maybe Christian people would have or have that conviction, or even other people that are not [00:39:35] Christians.

[00:39:35] Um, marriage is just hard too, right? And things change, and people do things in marriage that [00:39:40] all of a sudden make you feel so differently than... Right? Yeah, yeah. Like, people get blindsided all the time, [00:39:45] so- Yeah ... I, I think there's probably a lot of circumstances where, man, you could be totally trusting, and then obviously [00:39:50] the next minute, like, it's fascinating how trust is broken in a second, and it takes so long to build back,

[00:39:54] KYLE: [00:39:55] so.

[00:39:55] GARY: Yeah.

[00:39:55] KYLE: Very interesting. I was reading the story out to Malachi last night, um, about Solomon. About he, he [00:40:00] was, like, the richest guy to ever live and- Mm-hmm ... and, and the wisest guy, and he still couldn't [00:40:05] handle it and started building temples for his, uh, his wives' gods and things like [00:40:10] that, and just, you know, I'm sure he didn't have those values early on- Mm-hmm

[00:40:13] in his career, [00:40:15] whatever. If you call it a career. I

[00:40:17] GARY: don't know what he did for work, eh? What [00:40:20] did he do? Yes. 700 wives and all the money in the world. It's weird. I

[00:40:24] KYLE: come out- [00:40:25]

[00:40:25] GARY: Never mind ... with some different jokes that I have. Never mind. Never mind. Never mind. [00:40:30] Um.

[00:40:32] KYLE: You got anything else?

[00:40:33] GARY: No, I'm ready to wrap up right now.

[00:40:34] Call it a [00:40:35] day. Call it a short podcast this week.

[00:40:37] KYLE: We started, we're at 35 minutes?

[00:40:39] GARY: Uh, it was [00:40:40] long enough, man.

[00:40:40] KYLE: Yeah. What are you doing the rest of the day? Uh,

[00:40:42] GARY: I have a subject removal on a property that I'm helping [00:40:45] folks buy today.

[00:40:45] KYLE: Okay.

[00:40:46] GARY: In Mission, so that's awesome. I have another subject removal tomorrow on a deal.

[00:40:49] KYLE: That's just all [00:40:50] online stuff, right? You don't need to meet people.

[00:40:51] GARY: No, no meet people, right? Okay. Pick up, you still pick up a deposit check from them. You [00:40:55] shake their hand. Okay. Maybe give them a gift card, say thank you for the business. I mean, with the people that are [00:41:00] buying, you'll have a possession down the road, and bring them a gift, and excited about buying their first home.[00:41:05]

[00:41:06] as dark as I, as it can be in the financial world, like [00:41:10] it's amazing how, and it's a good thing it is, and that's what I was talking about earlier about people having hope and the [00:41:15] capitalistic dream. But like, it's people still dream of owning real estate and people are- Mm ... work [00:41:20] hard to, like people wanna have their own place, right?

[00:41:22] And in your case where you're renting a house that [00:41:25] is worth a fortune and it's like, "Hey, you live in like very few people would ever even own a place like [00:41:30] this. It's such a ni- It's very different than the person that's renting." Like for example, the one couple I'm helping, they have like [00:41:35] three little kids and they live in like a, I don't wanna lie, but I think it's a 1,000 square foot suite- Oh, wow

[00:41:39] above a [00:41:40] garage with one bathroom and hardly, like they hardly even have a counter in their kitchen. Like, it's just tiny, right? Yeah. So, so [00:41:45] there again, they are more motivated than your average renter. Yeah.

[00:41:47] KYLE: I'd be, I'd be pretty

[00:41:47] GARY: motivated. You'd be pretty motivated too, where it's like, "Hey, people have [00:41:50] different- Yes

[00:41:50] rationale for what they do, right?" Yes. Obviously they're renting for a lot less than, you know, renting a large house out in [00:41:55] the country. Yes. Um, but yeah, I'm gonna do that and, uh, I was thinking of going to Enderby [00:42:00] tonight, but now I'm, I'm having second thoughts about that. What's in

[00:42:02] KYLE: Enderby?

[00:42:02] GARY: Uh, it's a business meeting that I could go to [00:42:05] with a group of guys, but I think I might duck and dodge and not go to that.

[00:42:07] It's just very difficult for me to be gone when thing- [00:42:10] unless, even if things are going well at home, it's just like-

[00:42:13] KYLE: Yeah. I mean, you're in the thick

[00:42:13] GARY: of it ... I do the bedtime. [00:42:15] I do the bedtimes, right? And I'm not that useful, but the little bit of use I am is, is [00:42:20] needed there at home. And, uh, yeah, I got lots of cattle moving again.

[00:42:24] Like I bought a [00:42:25] lot of animals lately, so I've been moving cows and lots of real estate deals and just, just [00:42:30] enough to keep me out of any serious trouble, right?

[00:42:32] KYLE: Sounds fun.

[00:42:32] GARY: Yeah. What are you doing the rest of the day, Kyle?

[00:42:34] KYLE: Got a [00:42:35] coaching call.

[00:42:35] GARY: Okay. Still, you're golfing again I saw, saw? You went golfing.

[00:42:39] Yeah. Is your back [00:42:40] totally fine?

[00:42:40] KYLE: Uh, no, I have to club down like two clubs. So instead of like usually- So- ... would take a seven [00:42:45] iron, I would now use a five iron so I don't swing as hard.

[00:42:46] GARY: Okay. Swing gentle.

[00:42:47] KYLE: The sing- ironic thing is I hit way straighter [00:42:50] and I golf way better. Makes

[00:42:51] GARY: sense. Makes sense. Makes sense.

[00:42:52] KYLE: Yeah. No, coach call and then, uh, [00:42:55] tonight doing my last freedom session with a guy, but I'm doing it online. Oh, [00:43:00] wow. So just wrapping up.

[00:43:02] GARY: Okay. Okay. Do you have it throughout your days? I just [00:43:05] have it like even today, like multiple people, I'm like, "Okay, this guy, I'm gonna add this guy to the list." Like it's like

[00:43:09] KYLE: [00:43:10] Oh, yeah.

[00:43:11] Well, I, I mean, I have, I know a lot of people that could definitely, [00:43:15] definitely use it. That could, that could be

[00:43:15] GARY: helpful.

[00:43:16] KYLE: But I'm, I'm also thinking about myself, like having this conversation with this person, they're gonna be like, [00:43:20] "Ah."

[00:43:21] GARY: I'm good.

[00:43:21] KYLE: I'm good. I'm

[00:43:22] GARY: good.

[00:43:22] KYLE: Which is what? 90%.

[00:43:23] GARY: 90% of people [00:43:25] are really good.

[00:43:25] They're fine, right?

[00:43:26] KYLE: They're fine.

[00:43:26] GARY: They're fine. Define fine. Still look fine. Cannot define fine on this [00:43:30] podcast, but you can use your imagination what the acronym could be. People have to want it. [00:43:35] The last three are insecure, neurotic, and emotional.

[00:43:39] KYLE: You have to [00:43:40] want it.

[00:43:40] GARY: Yeah, you have to. You know, you ha- no, you have to be broken.

[00:43:42] You have to be at the end of yourself, and then [00:43:45] naturally you'll probably be more open to it, and that's what's amazing. Yes. It's fa- I can't say fascinating on this [00:43:50] podcast. It's... I can't... I don't know. I can't. I

[00:43:53] KYLE: got a

[00:43:53] GARY: sweet shirt made. I don't

[00:43:54] KYLE: know the specifics for [00:43:55] me. I, I'm, I'm sure it's coming. I should've, I'm gonna have to go online.

[00:43:57] GARY: Yeah. Nobody wants to be broken. Nobody [00:44:00] wants to be in a horrible spot, but sometimes the horrible spot's the best thing that can ever happen

[00:44:04] KYLE: [00:44:05] But don't you find that even not being broken, I've seen people that go on a [00:44:10] freedom session and they're like, "I actually wanna grow and get better." And they don't- Of

[00:44:14] GARY: course.

[00:44:14] Of course ...

[00:44:14] KYLE: [00:44:15] versus people show up 'cause they have to.

[00:44:16] GARY: Of course. There's all, all camps, but I guess what I'm trying to say [00:44:20] is So few people are really honest.

[00:44:23] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:44:24] GARY: Like, really ho- like, [00:44:25] fully honest. Yeah. Like, everybody's honest enough that they can say that they're an honest person. Yeah. There's usually five,

[00:44:29] KYLE: five-

[00:44:29] GARY: But so few [00:44:30] people-

[00:44:30] five, 5%, 10% ... there's always 5% to 10% That

[00:44:30] KYLE: hold 'em back ...

[00:44:31] GARY: of their life that they're, uh, keeping under wraps, and, uh, that [00:44:35] little bit keeps them pretty sick and, and obviously not as, not as joyful and free as they could be. [00:44:40] Um, so that's really what Freedom Session deals with, and just relationships too.

[00:44:43] KYLE: I'll, I'll talk about it, [00:44:45] um, uh, on next week's podcast, but, um, um, there's a book called, uh, [00:44:50] Unwanted, How-

[00:44:51] GARY: Sounds sad

[00:44:54] KYLE: It's called How [00:44:55] Sexual Brokenness Reveals Our Way to Healing, and it is [00:45:00] by far the best book I've ever read on, uh, on this topic.

[00:45:04] Um, [00:45:05] but it talks about how, um, one of the biggest factors of [00:45:10] people being, uh, not being open is that it's [00:45:15] the belief that they are unwanted, or if people actually knew everything about me, you know, my wife would [00:45:20] leave me and my friends would, wouldn't want- Yeah ... to hang out with me, et cetera, et cetera. And, and, and how to [00:45:25] combat that.

[00:45:25] But, uh, that, that, that, the porn app pandemic is actually, uh, like [00:45:30] a red herring on this much deeper issue that people believe they're not wanted, and [00:45:35] they're going to that to, um, you know, fill, fill that void. But I was gonna [00:45:40] take a bunch of excerpts of the book. I'm gonna read it a second time now, and I was gonna just do a little summary on here.

[00:45:44] Maybe I won't have [00:45:45] it done by next week. But I also wanted to have him on the podcast.

[00:45:47] GARY: You have so many show notes in here, [00:45:50] Matt. You have mailbag stuff.

[00:45:52] KYLE: I do?

[00:45:52] GARY: Yeah. Do you not see this or have we already? I don't think we've talked [00:45:55] about this.

[00:45:55] KYLE: What mailbag do you have?

[00:45:56] GARY: Well, I'm looking at, like- Can

[00:45:57] KYLE: you talk about holiness?

[00:45:59] GARY: No, not that one. The one [00:46:00] before. How long should you date before marriage? Like, is that a real question? Did somebody- Yeah ... put that in?

[00:46:04] KYLE: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:46:04] GARY: How long should [00:46:05] you- Probably somebody married that didn't date long enough.

[00:46:07] KYLE: How long should you... Okay, mailbag question. Do you wanna [00:46:10] keep-

[00:46:11] GARY: Sorry. It's so bad.

[00:46:12] KYLE: I love how Gary [00:46:15] laughs at his own jokes.

[00:46:15] GARY: I love it. Oh, it's so embarrassing. My wife's mortified for me. Any time we're hanging out, she [00:46:20] just, just wants to run away. It's totally fair.

[00:46:22] KYLE: How long should you date before marriage?

[00:46:23] GARY: That's a real Beekman trait, by the way. [00:46:25] Beekmans love, love- They laugh at themselves? Oh, they laugh at their own jokes. They have to.

[00:46:27] KYLE: Johnny do?

[00:46:28] GARY: Yeah. Yeah, he definitely, he's [00:46:30] like me, right? He's like, "Ha, ha, ha." And then when we hang out together, we just cackle at each other. That's why we always hang out, right? 'Cause [00:46:35] whenever we go out with other people, they're always like, "Okay, you guys are inbred half-bits. You got some serious [00:46:40] issues."

[00:46:40] But, no.

[00:46:40] KYLE: Should do an, uh-

[00:46:41] GARY: How long should people date before they're married? We should do one of those- Not very long ...

[00:46:44] KYLE: do one of those [00:46:45] tests to see if you're actually inbred. Anyways, um, yeah, how long?

[00:46:49] GARY: Uh, [00:46:50] not very long.

[00:46:51] KYLE: No?

[00:46:51] GARY: No.

[00:46:52] KYLE: Just put a ring on it and go for it?

[00:46:53] GARY: Uh, you should know [00:46:55] very soon if the person's marriage material, right?

[00:46:57] And if they're not, people should be dating way [00:47:00] less. Most people spend way mu- too much time hanging out together thinking the person will eventually [00:47:05] get better or they'll change the person or things will get, like, I see that all the time with young people, right? [00:47:10] Like, if you're sure, if you're their marriage material, just get married, and if they're not, just end it.

[00:47:13] Like- [00:47:15] Do you disagree?

[00:47:17] KYLE: Uh- I'm not sure.

[00:47:19] GARY: [00:47:20] I'm sure of myself, so.

[00:47:21] KYLE: Yeah, I know.

[00:47:21] GARY: You know, when I'm wrong, I'm

[00:47:22] KYLE: confidently wrong. Freely wrong. Never, never in doubt, freely wrong. Yeah. [00:47:25] That was a... Frequently

[00:47:25] GARY: wrong, never in

[00:47:26] KYLE: doubt. Yeah, that's the shirt that's getting made. One of the-

[00:47:28] GARY: No, I just think the idea of [00:47:30] people, I mean, I just think at least all kinds of fornication, all kinds of problems.

[00:47:34] It's just a [00:47:35] disaster.

[00:47:35] KYLE: Yeah, dating a long time, I'm definitely not vouching for.

[00:47:37] GARY: Yeah. Also, like, my wife and I didn't- What's a long [00:47:40] time? A year, year and a half ... kiss the whole time

[00:47:42] KYLE: we dated, right? Oh,

[00:47:43] GARY: really? Yeah. So- [00:47:45] Just before that? No. No, but just not recommended either, right? Like, but I think physical touching in general is just a disaster when you're [00:47:50] dating.

[00:47:51] You just don't think clearly, right? Yeah. Would you [00:47:55] disagree or anything else I should talk about? You know, I don't know. Just rabbit trailing now. I just hang [00:48:00] out with a lot of people that are dating and dating, and I'm like, "Okay, like, what are we doing here?" Like-

[00:48:04] KYLE: Yeah, well, I

[00:48:04] GARY: mean- What's the point?

[00:48:04] KYLE: [00:48:05] Most, most people are-

[00:48:06] GARY: Is it 'cause they're unsure?

[00:48:07] They have a hard time making a decision?

[00:48:09] KYLE: No.

[00:48:09] GARY: [00:48:10] I think that- I asked, I asked to get married- Yes ... and my father-in-law said no the first time, right? I think, I think that's part of it. So granted, I probably asked too soon,

[00:48:14] KYLE: but- [00:48:15] People are, people are just all doing, they're all doing the deed before they get married, right?

[00:48:16] So there's no-

[00:48:17] GARY: Are they? You think so?

[00:48:18] KYLE: Oh, yeah.

[00:48:18] GARY: Okay. For sure. [00:48:20] Okay.

[00:48:20] KYLE: Huge percentage.

[00:48:21] GARY: Okay, that's a disaster. That leads to a lot of problems.

[00:48:23] KYLE: Yeah. Too many. [00:48:25] Well, I mean, usually the relationship is built on something that's not even real. It's just like some, you [00:48:30] know, dopamine connection.

[00:48:31] GARY: Yeah. You know my saying, right, about sex before marriage, right?

[00:48:33] KYLE: What?

[00:48:33] GARY: I'm like, before you get [00:48:35] married, all the devil tries to get you to do is sleep together, and afterwards all he tries to do is keep you from [00:48:40] having sex.

[00:48:40] KYLE: That's right.

[00:48:41] GARY: That's my belief, but.

[00:48:42] KYLE: Yeah, for sure.

[00:48:44] GARY: Anyways- That's a [00:48:45] great way to end on ... I think we should end on that. I

[00:48:47] KYLE: think we should end on that.

[00:48:47] Amazing.

[00:48:48] GARY: Oh, dear.

[00:48:49] KYLE: Send in your [00:48:50] questions.

[00:48:50] GARY: Oh, there's lots more on there, but sorry, didn't, I never look at the show notes 'cause the whole [00:48:55] segments and timeframes and structure doesn't suit my personality. I'm

[00:48:59] KYLE: pretty sure it's synced [00:49:00] now, so.

[00:49:00] GARY: I hate this. Anyways, peace. Discombobulated dog shit, that's [00:49:05] what

[00:49:05] KYLE: that

[00:49:06] GARY: was.

[00:49:07] Yeah.

[00:49:07] KYLE: Get in here for leaner.[00:49:10] [00:49:15]

[00:49:15] GARY: Who's [00:49:20] gay?

‍

keep reading

The Greatest Artist Of All Time - Briefcase & The Barn EP 96

May 20, 2026

Religion Says Do. Jesus Says Done. What Do You Say? - Briefcase & The Barn EP 95

May 13, 2026

Why Don’t Christian Men Sing in Church? - Briefcase & The Barn EP 94

May 6, 2026

Stop Work From Controlling Your Life

Together, we’ll forge your path through the hard stuff to get to the good stuff.

book a call

A scenic view of a golf course with tall trees and mountains in the background.

He Was the Best Man, and He Forgot the Rings (True Story) - Briefcase & The Barn EP 97

May 27, 2026

keep reading

The Greatest Artist Of All Time - Briefcase & The Barn EP 96

Religion Says Do. Jesus Says Done. What Do You Say? - Briefcase & The Barn EP 95

Why Don’t Christian Men Sing in Church? - Briefcase & The Barn EP 94

Stop Work From Controlling Your Life

Company

Resources

Opening Hours

Office

Contact us

Podcast Question

He Was the Best Man, and He Forgot the Rings (True Story) - Briefcase & The Barn EP 97

May 27, 2026

Stay Updated With Our Latest Releases

keep reading

The Greatest Artist Of All Time - Briefcase & The Barn EP 96

Religion Says Do. Jesus Says Done. What Do You Say? - Briefcase & The Barn EP 95

Why Don’t Christian Men Sing in Church? - Briefcase & The Barn EP 94

Stop Work From Controlling Your Life

Company

Resources

Opening Hours

Office

Contact us

Podcast Question