July 16, 2025

"Half the people in Church aren't actual Christians" – Matt Kean – The Briefcase & The Barn - Ep 52

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Kyle: [00:00:00] Okay. Do you have any specific points that you wanna talk about? No. Nothing. I mean,

Matt: really, like, uh, I, I don't, I've thought about it. I looked at what that question that you said that amazes me if that's a legitimate question. It's a legitimate question. Is it legitimate question or are they like storing a pot?

No. I would own. So 10 years ago. We're not on now though. Yeah. This is 10, 10 years ago. I would only receive that kind of question from a Muslim.

Kyle: Great. Let's

Matt: talk about that part.

Kyle: Uh, what do we got here?

Matt: Okay. Lemme shut that off.

Don't let me forget my phone. Hey, you can't see under the chair, can you? Who care? It's an orange phone.[00:01:00]

So besides all that, having a pretty good

Kyle: day. Better welcome back guys to another episode of The Briefcase in the Barn. Are you sure you wanna start like this? Yeah, we're we're on. Ready? Oh, a series of the Furious E Show where we talk about business life, Christianity more. Gary's gone this week. He's in Orville.

So we got, uh, our buddy Matt Keenan on who has been on before, if you miss that.

Matt: I have, I have been on before.

Kyle: If you missed that episode, I'll uh link it in the description. Yep. And, uh, throw on the screen there. I brought

Matt: you gifts.

Kyle: Yes, that's right. I did. I did. Not

Matt: this time, but I did bring gifts last time.

Yeah. That plant.

Kyle: Yes. There. That it's her. Matt. Yes. What has the feedback been on the podcast? What feedback have you gotten?

Matt: Uh, lot. It's mostly positive. Okay. I mean, if it was. If there was any negative feedback, uh, it wasn't coming from my camp. I think it was coming from you. You have a camp? Yeah. Yeah.

What's your camp like? [00:02:00] Uh, you know, because I think we largely discussed Arminianism and Calvinism, so I don't think I. I don't think the negative feedback was coming from the Armenian side.

Kyle: Okay. But I didn't get much negative feedback. I got mostly very, very, very positive feedback. I would say 95%.

Matt: I think somebody showed me one comment online.

'cause I'm not on social media, so I wouldn't find it. Somebody screenshot it. Something from a social media site in the States. That was like, it was, I think it was like a some Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Some hyper.

Kyle: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was a, it was a Facebook group. Yeah, that's right. And it was just like. This guy's nuts.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then people started watching it and they were like, oh, well this, this is actually different. Oh, I don't know. I don't, I didn't see, I only saw the screenshot. I did. I did see that. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, it was fun. It was fun. But so the questions I asked and the perspective I came from, that would've been unique to the people you know.

In your circles. Totally, totally. So when, so when they watched it and they heard the questions that I was asking, what we were, they were, they

Matt: were shocked. Generally shocked. [00:03:00] Okay. Yeah. Not because, you know, questions that you were asking were so off the wall, but it's just the questions that you ask are, are just nodding our world.

Right? Like, what would be the

Kyle: questions in your role? What would people struggle with most?

Matt: Uh, we could, probably, one of the more common questions would be, you know, how far do you extend grace? Something like that. Salvation Army, right? Like a mo, a mission missionary movement where we're always trying to, uh, you know, call everybody into a, a relationship with Christ where they're willing to repent and, and their lives be changed forever.

So the question that we would get is, okay. How far do we extend that grace before we say, actually you are, you're not taking this seriously at all. You know what I mean? So it would be around that, I think more so around that kind of line of questioning.

Kyle: What about like personal faith?

Matt: I so, uh. You are diving right in, eh?

Like no introduction or nothing? [00:04:00] Well, that I did an introduction.

Kyle: I started saying, Hey, that's another, oh, we,

Matt: but last. Oh, did you? Yeah. Oh, okay. I missed all that. Alright. What did you say? What'd you say? I forgot. You just said, so

Kyle: you, you, you said, I asked the circles in your camp and you said, how far do you extend grace, which I'm assuming is in the case of like.

Someone you're trying to help. Yeah. Yeah. And big, but I, so a lot of the questions I asked came more from like someone's personal faith journey. Yeah. So, uh, what would, uh, personal questions be that people most struggle with in, uh, your, your church or your, your circle?

Matt: Uh, I don't know. I think that's a, that's a hard question, right?

Like, they're all different. But I think generally, like I just said, you know. Uh, how, how, how far does the grace of God get extended to a person? But also I think someone would be like, well, are my struggles with sin? Not really [00:05:00] struggles with sin. Do I love sin more than I'm struggling with it? Those kind of things we'd probably have to deal with more head on.

Then the, the whole, 'cause we talked a lot about election and galvanism and Yeah. It's just, anyway, it was fun. It was fun interview and people responded really well. Yeah. Gary Gary Byers gave me, gave me some good feedback. What'd he say? Well, he just said he enjoyed it, which I thought Gary would probably, would probably be like, ah, you're crazy.

Well, he does say that too. Yeah, he does. You're a bunch of

Kyle: nut jobs, right,

Matt: Gary? Yeah.

Kyle: Okay. And, uh, we've gone for, we've met a few times since the podcast.

Matt: Yep. Yep.

Kyle: Um, one of the things that, uh, I found interesting was you mentioned, um. That you believe in, like the North American church, uh, like half the people going to church are probably not even Christians and, and just, I can't remember exact I did, I did say that.

Yeah. Yeah.

Matt: Something like that. Yeah.

Kyle: That's a, that's a huge call. Yeah. Talk to me about that. Why do you, why do you, what do you see in the [00:06:00] church in North America?

Matt: Oh, man, Kyle, not, not even any small talk today. I don small talk. Not even, I hate

Kyle: small talk. Not even gonna bother with it. Oh. Like what do you want, what do you want?

A small talk. I don't know.

Matt: Usually Gary gives, his team is no, his real estate slowdown. Yeah. Can you, can you be with Gary for a minute? Uh, I don't think I can, I don't think I can do justice, but I. Hello, I'm Gary Bars. Right. Let me talk to you about real estate. I don't know. Um, he's, uh, he's usually a little bit more fun at the beginning.

Uh, you're usually more fun with him at the beginning. Oh, you just launch me right into it here. Hey, that all right. Okay. Whatever. Whatever you should tell these guys about how much pain you're in, like a lot with your back right now. A lot. It's crazy. Hm.

Kyle: T threes, uh, yeah, other. It's powerful medication getting, I'm hopefully an MRI soon.

Wow. I can fix that for you. Just

Matt: jumping em back. [00:07:00] Just kick you right in the back. Yeah. No, I'm just kidding. I hope you get past it anyway. What, what you asked me, what was your

Kyle: church? Half a

Matt: church in, in North America. Oh yeah, I did say that I, it was a conversation where we were going on a walk and it was, it, it was not superficial, so I did say it.

I gotta own up to it. A um, yeah, I think that a lot of Christian claims are, aren't real discipleship. I'm not saying all,

I am not saying all, but I think, uh, a lot of them. Yeah, but I mean, I could be wrong. Hopefully

Kyle: you're not nearly as, uh, um, bold right now as we are on the walks. No, shoot straight here. Why do you think this, uh, like what do you see in the church? Just so

Matt: everybody knows? I, I, the reason that I'm not being as blunt is because I do get nervous around crowds of people, and it's come to, it's hit me that there's like a thousand people gonna be watching this, right.

So, yeah. [00:08:00] Anyway. Yeah. Uh, look, um, discipleship in scripture is pretty severe. It's not,

Kyle: what do you, what does that even mean? Discipleship? It means

Matt: an, an absolute devotion to Christ at any cost.

Kyle: Okay.

Matt: And that's, that's not often what, uh, what I see. Okay. What

Kyle: do you often see?

Matt: Uh, I think easy believism is, is something that's, uh, you know, bit of a blight on the church.

Uh, and also like, you know, not just I believe, but. You know, I'm, I'm doing the right stuff. I go to church and I might even pay my tithe. Right. But I'm not sure there's much, I don't hear or see much affection for Christ, for Jesus much. Like if you love somebody, he, you know, there's, there's at least, uh, you know, a testimony [00:09:00] that, that you do not just, I believe in him, but I love him.

I don't think it's, and hopefully it's just in the, you know, the broad

Kyle: and you think, and you think the broad circles that I've seen and, uh, I, I think I remember you saying this was in large part. You believe due to the preaching? Mm. Did I say that? Yeah, I think you did like that there. That there's just like, or ev No, you said everyone's getting fed milk and like, so, you know, in, somewhere in scripture you can probably help me with this, but where, um, Paul rebukes the church for saying, Hey, like you're just drinking milk still.

That's all you can handle. You can just start eating spiritual meat. Uh. Yeah. And, and, uh, and you were saying that you believe that, that the churches are, are filled with, uh, milk, uh, but people aren't actually getting like preached like substantive stuff now. Yeah. This is like, but I don't think

Matt: that's, uh, if I said that, that's what I think is the most of the problem.

I, I think I'd have to retract that. I think it's a problem. Okay. But I don't think it's most of the problem. Okay. I think most of the [00:10:00] problem is that people don't want to carry across and follow Jesus. Because it, a cross is costly. Mm-hmm. And that was the terms of Jesus's discipleship. So what is that

Kyle: like in modern, like that's what

Matt: he said.

He said, if anybody, if anybody desires to follow me, then they must take up their cross daily and follow me.

Kyle: Right. So what does that practically look like in today's world? Like I, I can understand in like Iran or whatever that means. Like, hey, you, you have to wanna be a Christian and you know you're gonna get killed.

It's

Matt: easily translated. Easily translated. Okay. So if, if, if, if you, if that's what it means in Iran, that's what it means here. Okay. So how does that, what does that taking up your cross practically look like? Well, a cross is a place of death. So if a person really is going to follow Jesus, then it means that them, the, the self themselves have to find the place of death.

I even in my [00:11:00] own life, right? Like I have to come before the Lord constantly and stop trying to, uh, find blessing and his approval for what I want, how I want to live, and my success, my ambitions, my dreams, and, uh, you know, God is, is secondary to my life. I think that's, that's what it means to carry across a cross means that my life is stapled to, it dies there, and discipleship to Christ is a life in him first.

So I, I'm being judgmental. I don't like to be judgmental. Certainly not publicly.

Kyle: I don't know. I don't know if it's judgmental, if it's just what you're, what you're observing, but what, okay, so, but you just said a whole bunch of nice theological statements, but I, I still don't know how that. Practically.

Okay, I'll give you a practical

Matt: example. Two employees work together. They don't get along. They're both calling [00:12:00] themselves Christians, right? They get into a massive fight and uh, they start arguing. And, uh, one is probably more right than the other, the one that's definitely wrong, lashes out and starts swearing and cursing, you know, get outta my face and all kinds of vulgar language and, uh.

At the end of that conversation, both are still calling themselves Christians, both are still calling themselves disciples, and both are calling themselves filled with the love of Christ. It's absolutely impossible for both those things to be true. So carrying the cross would mean that the person who calls themselves a Christian would basically lay themselves down for the sake of the other.

So if there's one that's more right, he says, you know something, I'm sorry, brother. I. Uh, please forgive me. I didn't mean to bring you to this point where, you know, even though he knows he might be right, even though he knows that, [00:13:00] that he might be right and if he thinks he might be right, all the more he needs to take the humble road.

If he calls himself a Christian, that's rare. Hmm. So that's just a practical example of where that person's self has to die, but often he won't. Hmm.

Kyle: You think that, do you think that looks the same? That's

Matt: just an example.

Kyle: Yeah. Yeah. You think it looks the same in like a, a country setting, like in war? Like how, how do you, when do you, um, is there ever would you believe in righteous war?

Like is there, is there,

Matt: uh, yeah. Or defending.

Kyle: Or defending yourself or like as, because what you're kind of implying there is like just rolling over and, and taking it like at some point. No, you do have to stand up for yourself.

Matt: Yeah. Okay. I don't, so. Uh, in that context, both are calling themselves Christians, brothers Christians.

Yeah. Christians. Right. So, okay. Fair enough. And that's a real life example. Yeah. Um, but in times of war or violence, that's something different, especially if, you know you're protecting more than yourself, like your family or your home or whatever. Mm. [00:14:00] Um, that's a very different kind of question. I don't think rolling over and just taking abuse is what God calls us to be.

But, uh, I'm, I'm talking about with regards to how I. I willing or unwilling to take myself from a pedestal, even though I've earned it, even though it's my right, you know, to, to take myself off. How humble by yourself. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. And uh, I think that's just one example. Fair enough of how.

Kyle: Yeah.

Right. Um, Christians won't do that. You said earlier that you feel like there's people that go to church, they, they tithe, they do the right thing and stuff like that, but there's no affection for, for Christ. Yeah. How, how does, if you're in that spot, which I've been in that spot mm-hmm. Where I just literally felt nothing.

Sure. How you, how do you. What do you do? Like, how do you change that? How do you get affection, uh, for Christ? This kind of,

Matt: this was kind of brought up at the end of our podcast last time.

Kyle: Yeah. You said Hol Holiness. You said we didn't talk, we

Matt: didn't talk about holiness. Yeah, we didn't. Uh, so maybe this is like [00:15:00] part two.

I dunno. Do you do sequels? We'll see. Okay. Uh, how, how do you kindle affection for Christ when you don't have any?

Kyle: Yeah.

Matt: That's what you're asking.

Kyle: Yeah. Because some people might say, oh, this means I'm not a Christian. Like, like if you, I'm sure you've had weeks or months where you didn't feel any affections for Christ.

Right. It didn't, not automatically mean you're not a Christian.

Matt: Have I not felt affection for Christ? I may not have been pleased with him or what he's decided to do, but I, I don't know if I could say I didn't love him. Okay. Affection

Kyle: and love is different. No, affection is more of a feeling. Love is more of a, a, a, like, same with your wife.

Matt: I, well, love manifests often as affection. Right? So, um, I'm, I know it sounds like I'm splitting hairs, but not really. Like if you, if you love your wife, if you truly love your wife, uh, eventually affection Yeah. Will be displayed in some way or another. That's right. But it, but it ebbs and flows. Sure.

Yeah. So if you're [00:16:00] an ebbing, how do I kindle affection for Christ? I think, I think it's only necessary to come back to what he has done for us and who he is Constantly, like how I, it's really hard to stay apathetic towards God when you consider what he's rescued you from and how he did that. Hmm. I mean, if somebody does, if somebody does a really good deed for you, just practically, if, if your car breaks down in the middle of the highway and somebody comes and offers you theirs, or, you know, says that they're gonna fix everything and tow you back to your home, and, and before that you were, you know, on a, a highway lost and didn't know where you were going, you would feel so much.

Appreciation for what this person has done. You'd want to get to know them. You'd want to repay that. You'd So people that don't affection would naturally. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kyle: So people that don't have affection for Christ are, [00:17:00] have lost sight or, or have never seen what they've been rescued from. And how he did that and how he did that.

Matt: Yeah. Uh, that's what I would suggest.

Kyle: Okay. So get to know like there's a, so how do you get to know that? Is that just reading the law? Is reading the Bible is just reading more about like a couple weeks ago you told me to say, Hey Kyle, I'll start reading one chapter. A day of the, the Apostle of John, just one chapter.

The gospel of read it. Read it a whole bunch of times. Yep. Pray over stuff like that. Yep.

Matt: Is that a way? But, but I didn't just do that prescriptively. I told you, I said, look to see who Jesus is for you. Mm-hmm. And the Gospel of John is a different kind of gospel. Right. Like it, it opens up. Uh, do we need to stop?

No, keep talking. Uh, it opens up who Jesus is in a different, a different way. Um, I I, I, your question is, has bothered me a bit. 'cause it does sound like I'm being critical of the church, so.

Kyle: Well, that's good. The

Matt: church

Kyle: beats some criticism once

Matt: in a while. Well, it gets a lot of criticism. [00:18:00] Yeah. But anyway, like I, I, here's no because, no, because reason I, here's why I said no.

You and Gary do interrupt yourselves too much. So I heard that feedback and you do, you're constantly, like Gary would say, beacon off. We're always beaconing off. Um, but uh. I think the church gets a lot of criticism. Criticism. The only reason I say it is because there's so much more in Christ. There's so much.

There's far more to have with Jesus in a relationship with Jesus than than mediocrity. And so often we just settle for this. Silly valueless

Kyle: media. Okay, so practically, if you're in that stop, then that's in that spot. What can you practically go do? What would you, if you have a saw in your church that comes to you and says, I want to get hot for the gospel.

I wanna get hot for Christ, and, and follow him with my whole heart. Yep. What do I how? Like where does that,

Matt: okay. [00:19:00] The first, generally speaking, 'cause every case is different, but the first thing I would ask is first is this person actually. Saved. Hmm. So are they already in a relationship with Christ or are they not?

If they're not, they've gotta start with the gospel. Right? So they have to understand they're a sinner. They have no hope whatsoever of being righteous or good. And you can try all your best. It doesn't matter when you stand before the Lord, you're, you're the only legs you have to stand on are your own, and you're under his righteous and holy judgment.

So only the loving. Gracious offer of Christ, uh, is able to bring a person from that state of lostness to, to salvation. So that's the first thing I'd ask, is he, is this person truly saved? Uh, and if they're not, I start that. You would just ask them that. Or like, are you truly safe? Yeah. Yeah. Tell me, tell me what your relationship with Christ is And always though the, the glass shatters really quickly.

It, it's either something like, yes. I am because [00:20:00] when he revealed the truth to me, uh, it melted my heart and, and, uh, um, I came to the Lord and submitted, uh, to the gospel and I repented of my sin and I wept like a child. That's usually how it goes. Or I grew up in church my whole life. I, uh, my parents were Christian.

I, I've led Sunday school, I went to this camp, whatever. And uh, yes, I'm a Christian, but. Those two answers are poles apart. Hmm. So only one of those is a testimony of redemption being worked out in a life. Okay. The other is just, you know, okay. Religion. Okay. So then, so if they are saved, then I would say, okay, I, is there something blocking your.

Uh, affections for Christ. Your ability to have this, you know, outpouring love for Christ, sin in the way. Are you pursuing your own will rather than god's or have you wronged someone and you are [00:21:00] holding a grudge and not willing to, to humble yourself? Usually it's one of those three things and. It's rare that I would get past those three things.

If someone claims to be saved and still they're unable to find their way back to this road of love for Christ. What about neglecting Bible reading prayer? Yeah. Uh, so I don't, I find it really difficult to believe that someone loves God and doesn't take time for his word or take time in his presence. I find that really difficult, but it might, it might happen.

Well, you have seasons of it, but what, how long is a season a day? So if it's a day, maybe two, I could allow it, uh, in my own life. I mean, yeah, yeah. If I didn't read my Bible and, and, and pray. Not because of duty, but because, you know,

Kyle: I think of King David. King David wasn't living in sin for nine months. So it was nine months before Nathan came to him and, and said like,

Matt: sure.

But it's not, it's not that he wasn't dialoguing with God, [00:22:00] he was still like involved in temple worship. He was probably trying to forget his sin. That's true. Yeah. He was probably doing all those things, but Nathan came to him Sure. And rebuked him sharply. Yeah. So, and he was open to that. Yeah. And if, and if he's an unbeliever, if a person's an unbeliever.

I told you, like, I think if they're willing to sit under the gospel, I don't think it'll be long before, if they're willing to stay under the teaching of the gospel and actually be honest with what God presents them, I don't think it'll be long before they're saved or they'll leave where the gospel is.

Yeah. Anyway, that's, that's just one. What do you, uh,

Kyle: recommend for people and when it comes to, uh, devotions? Uh, do you

Matt: Yeah. Start, start easy. If you, if you like, if you, if, if somebody doesn't have a devotional life and you want one, it's not hard to start, but if you've gotta carve out time, right, because God, God's a person I.

He, he's not a man. Well, you know, like he fails like we do. But he [00:23:00] is a person that you can get to know and intimately experience. So, you know, carve out some time. I told, uh, a friend of mine, a close friend of mine a while ago, and you know, they're born again believer they love the Lord and, uh, they were just like, oh, my devotions are getting so dry and.

I'm not really spending much time with the Lord. I'm doing it like I've always done. And I said, well try something different. And they were like, well, what do you mean? I said, well, what do your devotional life look like now? Well, before I go to bed, I spend a half hour with the Lord in prayer, and I open up this word and I read my devotional book.

I said, okay, we'll change it up. Journal your prayers. Try that. So you do, right? You write? Yeah, I do. I do. You write, just write your prayers down?

Kyle: Mm-hmm.

Matt: Yeah. In my devotional, like I don't write every prayer down, but. In my devotional time. Oh yeah, I journaled. Yeah. But, and, and it worked for him. It, he, he shifted it up.

He took it, it took his, his mornings instead of the night, he shifted it the mornings and he started journaling his prayers and all of a sudden stuff was able to come out that he didn't know before that needed to come out. And [00:24:00] he spent different. Amount of time with the word and,

Kyle: yeah. Yeah. What would you say is the biggest, try something different, what would you say?

Uh, um, feel free to ask me questions too, or interrupt. Hey, there's just like free flow on conversation. Okay, cool. Uh, but I'm, I had a question though.

Matt: Go ahead. Alright.

Kyle: What do you think is the biggest challenge to the church today in America? In North America, or, yeah, we're Canadian, Western world. Uh,

Matt: what is the biggest challenge to the church generally?

Yeah. I don't know, Kyle, that's a big, what do you think? That's a big question. What do you think is the biggest challenge to the, I mean, comfort? Hmm. Affluence. I mean, the book of James is pretty severe on interesting. On affluence. Interesting.

Kyle: Interesting. You said that. I I came, I was thinking of this, uh, prophet this morning, uh, that I'll read.

Uh, the rich think of their wealth as a strong defense. They imagine it to be a high wall of safety. Yeah. But it's the opposite. I mean, it, it's, uh, it's [00:25:00] fascinating 'cause it makes me think of, uh, um, um, well it, it implies that it's, it's not a strong defense at all. And it implies wealth gives no safety at all.

Yeah. Yet we think if we had more money, our problems would've be fixed. Yeah. But, you know, our defense and our safety is gonna be in God. So affluence I guess can do that.

Matt: Yeah. And we try to control everything, right. Like we are so. We need to control so much. We don't want any suffering to enter our sphere.

And if it does, we are, we panic. We don't know why God is doing this to us. You know, how is it,

Kyle: why? Okay. So, okay. So that's interesting. 'cause I, I remember that from one of our talks when I said like, I wonder if my like sciatic pain is God teach to me to be like either pray. And I was like, whatcha talking about?

Yeah. Yeah.

Matt: No, you said, uh, you said, do you think, um, maybe. Maybe God's trying to show me something and, and yeah.

Kyle: Or teach me to like, pray more or like, and like go back to him more, which he [00:26:00] does. Right. God disciplines those he loves. Sure, sure. I guess, but you laughed at it. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry about that. I didn't mean to offend you.

No, I, but it's funny, I love the authenticity, but what, what, because I was like, well,

Matt: why don't you just concentrate on what you know, God, you're, you're wondering, you were wondering has, is God trying to show me something? I was like, well, it probably makes more sense to concentrate on what you know God is doing.

So like, like I, I, I told you like, you know what, what he's done for you. Yeah, yeah. At, at the cross. Yeah. Yeah. And you, you know what his will folks on the truth. Yeah. That he wants your Yeah, yeah, yeah. That your life is fair enough. Fair enough. Okay. Okay. Anyway. Okay. Anyway, it was funny at the time because Kyle was like, oh, my sciatic nerve, this is.

Well, actually this, this must be, this must be the Lord's

Kyle: Justice. Shut up talking. I didn't say it like that. I didn't say it like that. You're putting words in your mouth. It's okay. It's it's life. Okay. Yeah. We got a question that came in, um, this morning. Actually. Seriously, a real question. This, a real question came in through the [00:27:00] website.

Matt: All right.

Kyle: Uh, why do we live and act as though we have free will? Are not all things ordained by God is living like we have free will, not a sin. Diminishing the glory of God.

Matt: Say that again. The last part is,

Kyle: I'll read the whole question again. Why do we live and act as though we have free will? Yep. Are not all things ordained by God is living like we have free will.

Not a sin diminishing the glory of God. No.

Matt: The last part is living like we have free will, not diminishing the glory of God. That's a legitimate question. Yes. So you, when you read this question earlier, you mentioned Yeah, yeah. Ready before. Go ahead. Uh, so I said to you before when you brought that question up, I, I, 'cause I was wondering if it was real 10 years ago.

I would only expect to hear that question from a Muslim because that [00:28:00] presumes more like. Uh, that presumes that God is more like the God of the Quran than the God of the Bible. What is the God of the Quran? Like, he's like that. He's basically, there is no free will. You have no, uh, option, uh, with him other than what he degrees.

And he, he, his nature isn't loved by precedent. It's, it's. You know, he,

Kyle: I don't really fully understand the question.

Matt: I think. So let's start at the beginning then. So

Kyle: are we, do we not, what is, so I was taught we have a free will to do bad. We don't have a free will to do. Good. So

Matt: can I see it?

Kyle: Yes. It's right at the top there.

Matt: Okay. Why do we live and act as though we have free will? Well, you do have free will, so like, and are not all things. So this presumes [00:29:00] that every single detail of our lives are decreed by God. Yeah. But scripture doesn't teach that. Okay. Uh, like a case in point would be, uh, so it didn't like,

Kyle: here drop this pen.

Sure. That God didn't have that plan for eternity, that I would do that.

Matt: Uh, no. And the laws of gravity will tell you that will always happen and the table will stop it. Yeah. So God doesn't need to intervene there in any way unless you know, I. For some reason he seems, sees that he does. But let's go back here.

So are not all things ordained by God? No, they're not. And there's cases in scripture that tells you, for example, God says the opposite of this. There's a place in Jeremiah where, uh, God says to Israel or Judah, you guys have gotten so wicked that you are even. You're not just worshiping idols and erecting altars to Baal, but you're [00:30:00] burning your children at those altars and you've come up with that on your own.

It, it is not one of my commands. I didn't decree it didn't even enter my mind. So here's behavior where God is saying that did not come from any place that's holy. You came up with that. So there's God saying, I did not decree that behavior. Case in point, there's, and there's countless places like that, you know, but so do we have free will?

Yes. There's constantly, God is telling someone, choose me, Ezekiel is. Uh, uh, the whole dialogue with the prophet Ezekiel is God saying, if a righteous man chooses to stop being righteous, then he will not get any credit for the righteousness of before. And if a wicked man chooses to stop being wicked, I will give him credit for the choice that he makes to not be wicked anymore.

So that's Ezekiel 33 and, and chapter three. So do we have free will? [00:31:00] Yes. Is it a sin to use your free will? Only if it's to violate God's holiness. And do we, are it before you're saved? Do we have a free will to do good? Yeah. People can do good, but they can't be good. Why do you object to that? No. And if you do.

Kyle: You idiot. How do you Yes. So I, I would've been taught growing up. We have a free will to do bad. We don't have a free will to do Good. But I like your answer that we can do good. We can help the neighbor, but that Sure. But you can't. Good.

Matt: Yeah. Which, which, so. Which is what God says to Israel. God says, when they go wicked, God says, you bring all of these sacrifices to me and you worship me with your lips, which was a command.

So you're doing all of these things that are good things to do, but your heart is far from me. Mm-hmm. So he is saying, yeah, you're what you're doing. I [00:32:00] did technically command you to do. Yeah. But you're not actually good. Just

Kyle: behavior

Matt: modification. Right. Checking boxes. There you are. You and Gary talk about that stuff all the time.

All the time in between when he is checking his cows for girth so that he can bring the milk to market and turn a substantial profit. Upon which he'll reluctantly tithe.

Kyle: I love this. I make fun of him. I love this all the time. Okay. Okay. What else you got? I, those are, those are the notes I got. We're almost at, we're half, we're at a half hour here. You got anything you wanna talk about?

Matt: Uh, I got a question for you. Okay. It's not religious. Okay. But I do wanna ask you about it.

Okay. Do you think after the election, the Canadian election? Yeah. That we just had. This is not spiritual at all. Right. It's just something that's going over in my mind. Do you think the Prime Minister we now have is better than the one we previously had? From what I

Kyle: [00:33:00] can see, yes.

Matt: Okay.

Kyle: Uh, I read that he expects people to be on time for meetings.

He's not an hour late. I, I heard that he expects his organiz staff to be organized.

Matt: Okay.

Kyle: Uh, I heard Well, he is a banker. Yeah, I heard that. He has, he has asked all of his ministers to reduce their. Budgets by 7.5%.

Matt: Wow.

Kyle: Um, where'd you hear this from? This is one that was on the news yesterday. Oh, okay. So it's new.

Yeah. I heard he is putting a pipe. Wants to put a pipeline in. Yeah. Uh, I mean, there's still a lot I disagree with and, um, but because you were saying the

Matt: other day, like you're a huge

Kyle: Mark Carney fan. Yeah. Huge. Yeah. We're buds. I was texting him the other day to come over for beers. Right. Uh, which he'll tax you on.

What do you think? Do you think he's better?

Matt: Uh,

Kyle: his wing is annoying.

Matt: Uh, I, I, I'm annoyed that he's gotten away with so much. Right. So I would say yes, I think he's better than the previous Prime Minister, but I'm annoyed that he's gotten away with so much. Like what? Like, [00:34:00] uh, I think all of his, uh, wheelings and dealings with his old company that he Oh, in China.

Not just, not just China, like all over the place, like how he has been blocking oil. Production in Western countries, but yet he's invested like millions and millions and millions in Brookfield, which, you know, has been endorsing and supporting drilling oil out of Brazil. Right. So it's, he's a bit double standard, but no more double standard than, than I guess any politician.

I, I generally think he's much smarter than our previous Prime Minister, but I also think he's probably more devious. I, I, I do wonder about that as well. Yeah. Which is har, which is harder to see, but, but I don't know that as, as yet to see. Right. Yeah. I can only go by what I know of his. Are you allowed to have an opinion like this publicly?

Yeah, I can have my own opinion. I just, you know, I don't care enough about it to, I, I would never bring it into my pulpit or anything. Well, I know because I could, [00:35:00] because, 'cause you and I can be wrong. Yeah. Really well. Well, I can, oh, okay. Right. Okay. Well, you, we, you can be wrong about politics, so it's Yes.

Not something to camp out on. Yes. Fair enough. Fair enough.

Kyle: Okay. What else you got?

Matt: Uh, I didn't come here with any agenda.

Kyle: Okay. Yeah, I don't think so. Okay. Well, thanks for coming on. That's,

Matt: that's it.

Kyle: Yeah. It was hardly worth the drive. It's the briefcase in the bar. We keep that half hour. Yeah, I know.

Matt: I know, I know.

Yeah. Thank you. I really enjoyed hopefully. Have you ever noticed that Gary like talks way back in his throat, like kind of back here? Have you ever noticed the way he talks like that? No. I used to smoke a lot of weed when I was like six years old that, you know, then I got into real estate. Oh, I should give you the low down on the real estate like Gary would.

Yeah. Yeah. What are the prices of that recently? Uh, I think it's the bottom's gone out of her. Just the buckets. Totally. Just

Kyle: empty on, on that point, you, if you've got any real estate at all, [00:36:00] sell, sell, sell, sell. Yeah. 'cause it's end times, right? You believe it's Or you believe we're in the end down? I think.

Matt: I think we're very close. Yeah.

Kyle: Why?

Matt: I don't know.

Kyle: I

Matt: don't really

Kyle: know why. I just, what do you mean you don't know why you were like so adamant about this the other day? I don't think it was adamant. Adamant.

Matt: I wanted to talk to you about it, but I don't think. Like nobody can know when, but yeah, I do think, I do think we're very close to, I think we're running quickly out of time.

I think maybe in probably less than a hundred years, everything would just go to absolute chaos. It could without some kind of divine intervention. That's just my opinion. I could be wrong. Are you a, a Zionist? Uh, that is, uh, do I want. A Jewish state in, uh, the Middle East. Yes. But Zionism is a bit more than that, right?

Is it? I think so. Uh, I, I, I'm generally [00:37:00] biased toward the Jews, and that's not because of a biblical standard, it's just, uh, do you believe so? I believe that I've not, I've not, I've not heard. Um, I've not heard Israel say that they want the annihilation of an entire people group, like their enemies have said.

Yeah, yeah. So based on that alone, I tend toward the Jews. I don't agree with what the Israeli government does all the time. I think they're a bit heavy handed, and especially in Gaza, I think they've been a bit heavy handed. But I mean, it's not an issue

Kyle: You're gonna sort out very quick. Do you think that that, are they still God's chosen people and have that.

Special Mark.

Matt: That's a good question. The short answer is not every Jew is the remnant. So we're told in scripture that God will preserve. So this is true that God has pledged to [00:38:00] the Jewish people, not all, but a remnant of the Jewish people, that they will be eternally His, uh, however. It also says in scripture that nobody provokes God like the Jews does.

Yeah. Where it's basically throughout all the prophets, he says, I've given you so much and more than everyone else, you've profaned my name. Hmm. So, I mean, that's there, I Jeremiah, at least in two chapters is basically God saying, uh, you know, I, I totally regret, almost regret is what he says. Hmm. Or, or alludes to, anyway, so it's, it's a tough one, right?

It's not gonna be fixed easily.

Kyle: No.

Matt: Well, thanks for coming on. Pleasure. Appreciate it. My pleasure. My pleasure.

Kyle: If you have any questions, I'm sure Matt will be on again one time. I'm sorry I

Matt: didn't get, uh, a chance to, uh, do Gary more justice. Fair enough. Yeah.

Kyle: Also, if you have a, if you're in a, in a, a boss and you have a job you wanna post, uh, [00:39:00] and, uh, a position you wanna, um, fill, let me know and I will advertise that here on the podcast.

Um, also, we're still looking for someone that's a diesel mechanic, um, for, uh, trucks. Um, and also looking for someone that could help with, uh, pumps, uh, very mechanically inclined if you have a lot of experience in that. Um, got some, uh, good employers and, uh, um. Um, options there. So if you're interested in that, hit me up.

Um, otherwise, I'll see you next week. Thanks for listening. God bless you.

‍

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