Gay People & Jesus | The Briefcase and the Barn - EP 84

February 25, 2026

GARY: [00:00:00] Yeah. Abby ab. Abby.

KYLE: How about Abby

GARY: AB and Abby's are after us.

KYLE: Is it cold enough up here?

GARY: Oh, it's great, man.

KYLE: Not enough. I like the windows wide open. Half hour ago.

I did a podcast recording this morning and uh, I, uh,

was wearing this sweater and I was wearing drinking that cup. I was trying to face it, but every time I drank,

GARY: just representing,

KYLE: just representing.

GARY: Sorry. Who'd you do a podcast with this morning?

KYLE: Jason Gats.

GARY: That name sounds familiar.

KYLE: He's a, got a well known coach, whatever. [00:01:00]

GARY: Okay.

KYLE: Okay. I got my notes.

GARY: You look like you're struggling.

Kyle, are you struggling? Look like you're strong out.

KYLE: Yeah, probably

GARY: looks like you're full of angst.

KYLE: Yeah, no, it's different. It's probably pain.

GARY: Pain pain's beautiful. I expect the tears to flow. I'll pray for tears. Heavenly Father, thank you for this chance to record. God, I thank you for Kyle and uh, the giftings he has.

Lord, I pray for his heart, for the wounds, the healing that needs to happen. Yet I pray that he would just be a broken man even today, here, Lord. Uh, soft heart and just get rid of the, the exterior which he's trying to protect himself with. And he would just become the man of God that you have called him to be and that you are helping him become.

And same with me, Lord, that I would honor you and all that we do here as we talk, pray that, uh, it would not be, uh, offensive. But uh, just be enlightening to people and just thank you for this chance to record and just pray we can be entertaining and uh, have a good time together. Amen.

KYLE: Amen. [00:02:00] Welcome back to the episode of the Briefcase of the Bar, and, uh, produced by The Furious, the Curious Company.

This should now be on its own feed with its own logo.

GARY: Okay. What episode?

KYLE: Uh, this is episode 84.

GARY: Okay.

KYLE: Edited 83 this morning. Maria last week.

GARY: How long do I have to go to one 20? It's

KYLE: 1 26.

GARY: Okay. Getting there man.

KYLE: 1 27. Done. Done. I doubt it. Well, we'll see. It's still a ways away. We're almost at two years though.

GARY: Yeah.

KYLE: What's going on?

GARY: Uh, just had a really interesting meeting this morning with, uh, real estate clients, people that are thinking of selling a farm.

KYLE: Alright.

GARY: So that was interesting. A lot of hardship in their life. A lot of sadness. Pretty interesting how people process and how little they talk about it actually publicly.

How people, so

KYLE: the guy interviewed this morning, Jason Gaddis. Yeah. He is a humanist, so he's not a Christian.

GARY: Okay.

KYLE: Uh, but he talks about emotional health and relationships and dealing with conflict.

GARY: What is the definition of a humanist? [00:03:00]

KYLE: Basically they, I should get the official definition, um, that I'll say after I share mine.

Um, but I, how I understand it is that you believe in like people being able to improve things themselves without God, with just more knowledge and understanding.

GARY: Okay.

A humanist is a person who adopts a non-religious, rational worldview centered on human reason, compassion, and scientific inquiry rather than supernatural beliefs. They believe in taking responsibility for their own lives, promoting human dignity, and fostering a just sustainable society for all.

Interesting.

KYLE: So it's a person with a non-religious secular. Worldview who believes that human beings can lead ethical, meaningful lives through reason, science and empathy rather than through divine revelation or religious dogma. So he did say he believed in like, um, that there must be a creator, creator.

Like they're gone. Okay. That was, there's gotta be someone of first

GARY: [00:04:00] questions.

KYLE: Yeah. He goes there must So

GARY: he does believe in, in supernatural intelligent design.

KYLE: That's right.

GARY: Because here the saying they don't,

KYLE: that's right. Yeah. So he does believe, and there must be some

GARY: that created something that created, okay.

He doesn't think it's all scientific and it just evolved and No,

KYLE: no. So it was really interesting 'cause I'm, I didn't push him that hard to get to like the bottom of his worldview because essentially what you, I should have asked him, I guess. Do you think humans are good? Ultimately good. Yeah. I, I said, I forgot, I didn't ask that question.

That kind of,

GARY: and then why would a human be bad? What makes a human bad?

KYLE: That's

GARY: right. Yeah. Why would, who gets to decide whether they're bad or good?

KYLE: Exactly. Yeah. That's, that's who you end up with, right? Yeah. You need a moral code.

GARY: Yeah.

KYLE: If you have no moral code, that's why the whole fabric of society's falling apart because we're like,

GARY: because we can't go, we, we can

KYLE: decide.

GARY: Yeah.

KYLE: The moral code.

GARY: We are in trouble. We do not agree on what the moral code is.

KYLE: Yeah. I am. I am God

GARY: like. Interesting.

KYLE: So, uh, anyways, you were saying that, uh, these people Yeah, it was so beautiful. You were saying how few people talk about

GARY: Yeah. And it was, it was just special. They were emotional and it was just, it was like, it's probably my favorite thing I like.

KYLE: Emotions.

GARY: Yeah. Emotions hate

KYLE: other

GARY: people. [00:05:00] Deep, deep. Oh, and myself, I'm a crier too, right? Especially when there's, like, I just read a book, which I cannot highly recommend enough. Uh, Christopher Yuan's book out of a far country, I think it's called it. Him and him and his mom. Angela wrote it

KYLE: out of a far country.

GARY: Yeah. Yeah. Highly recommend it. And it's easy to read and it's not long. And it's very engaging. It's, it reads like a story.

KYLE: Why is it worth reading?

GARY: Um. It's about a guy who was living a gay lifestyle and he's very well known. He's spoken in chill rock in the last few years. Um, he's very well, a good speaker.

He, his mom, he grew up with, uh, Chinese parents in, uh, Chicago, I think, and ended up. Uh, becoming gay, living a gay lifestyle, um, would say I think without misquoting him, that he was born gay, so to speak, he would feel like he was born gay. I think from the perspective of where we come from, we're so scared to even talk about it.

In our culture and the culture that we live in. Mm-hmm. Like right where we are. [00:06:00] I'm saying like in our Dutch culture.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: There's such a phobia around even a discussion about,

KYLE: yeah.

GARY: Same sex attraction. While lots of people that are heterosexuals and married struggle with these things, like, it's definitely not so rare that you've, you know, for me, I, I know.

No, I think it's quite common

KYLE: actually. In the circles we come from, it's

GARY: way

KYLE: more

GARY: hidden. It's just so hidden. So I guess for me, the book was beautiful. It talked about. So the book was, jumping chapter to chapter was from Mom to Son.

KYLE: Okay.

GARY: And it talked about how they were both prodigals and she was, she shared her story of, of coming to Faith in the Lord and it was just a beautiful book.

I was reading it to my oldest son and my wife one night for like an hour, and I was just weeping. It was just. It was so sad and it was beautiful. Like even her and her marriage, like her marriage is off the rails. Total disaster. Yeah. And I don't wanna share the whole book and see if someone's gonna go.

KYLE: the title, I don't have a Far Country, A Gay Son's Journey to God, A Broken Mother Search For Hope.

GARY: Yeah,

KYLE: that's the title.

GARY: Yeah,

KYLE: I just bought it.

GARY: Really Cool.

KYLE: Um, I have a fun. Okay, cool.

GARY: Yeah. And it's, um. You know, sometimes you recommend books and people are like, oh, but it's actually a really interesting read.

And he ends [00:07:00] up in jail. So shares the whole, his whole story.

KYLE: Okay, cool.

GARY: I'll leave it at that. But, so that was, and it was the family day

KYLE: long. Who

GARY: told you

KYLE: about it?

GARY: Um, I bought it for a specific reason. Just 'cause of, because 'cause of the journey I'm walking with somebody, so I bought it to, okay. As in, and I, I knew it would be a good book 'cause I knew that he was asked to speak at a church here in Shelac a few years ago.

And Yeah. And I've heard that he's hot. Our church would recommend stuff on his, he's about celibacy falls.

KYLE: Are you, are you comfortable around gay guys?

GARY: Yeah,

KYLE: yeah,

GARY: yeah. I could share what

KYLE: happening.

GARY: No, but I could share a lot of experiences about how I was like. Taken advantage of by people that had those tendencies.

Even like when I first quit drinking and went to eight. Okay. Like I was Dutch young, naive, like obviously I'd lived, done a lot of dumb things, but I really didn't understand the ways of the world and how Oh yeah. Things that people are struggling with. So I had some pretty weird experiences and yeah, yeah,

KYLE: it took me, um, freedom session that really made me, I, I had a few, um, um, girls I knew that were lesbian [00:08:00]

GARY: Yeah.

KYLE: That I hung, hung out with. And it would still see, still see, have seen now at once. So I, Nicole will have 'em over for dinner or something or, um, and then, uh, but for the guys thing, I just like shut down

GARY: so I could share a real personal story. I grew up, like when I quit drinking, I was 19 and one of my good buddies.

Older guy than me, probably 10, 15 years older than me, I would say, uh, was married with four kids and lived a really good life, had been sober 15 years, was successful. And I, the idea of being successful with like, having kids and he owned a karate club in Syria and he was just kind of a buddy of mine and pretty influential and helped me stay sober and quit drinking.

And then he moved away, he ended up moving back to Ontario. Um, probably like in 2000. You know, four or five, like three or four years after I quit drinking or whatever. But I was pretty young at the time. I was probably in my early twenties and then, uh, I went to a conference. I think I, Marie and I were newly married, so it would've been 20 0 8, 9, 10, somewhere in there, in that, those years, um, went to this conference in Calgary, [00:09:00] a farming conference, and I went to church, some Baptist church in Calgary, just on my own there.

I don't, there must have been a lot of Christians at the conference, but I went to church and I, I dunno what it was in the sermon. So in the interim, this guy had moved to Calgary, to Ontario and ended up leaving his family and started living a gay lifestyle. Yeah. And, and living, uh. Having a boyfriend or whatever left his family, left his family with, you know, kids that are in their teens to young adult ears at this point, right.

This is 10 years later. They, you know, so probably like between 15 and 25 mm. And initially when he called me, I distinctly remember him calling me where I was and I kind of was like, just shell shocked and I don't think I skewered him per se, but he knew I was a Christian and probably was waiting for the judgment that would come from me.

Um. And I don't think I responded in grace anyways. Um,

KYLE: you responded harshly.

GARY: Yeah. How in cold, cold, cold. Much

KYLE: different than you would respond today, correct?

GARY: Well, what happened? Yeah. So what happened was I was at this church service in Calgary at this Baptist church and just felt [00:10:00] super convicted about how I had, I don't know why, I can't even remember what the sermon was about, but I was just so convicted and felt like such a judgmental hypocrite and just thought, man, like this is the one example of a Christian Guy.

You know, this guy's a non-Christian, obviously. Mm-hmm. Um. And I think that's where we get mixed up is people that go to church, we forget who's a Christian, who's not, and what it means when you are and when you're not, and how you would respond to sin when someone's correct. You know when, when somebody's a non-believer.

They're nonbeliever Christian, and they're committing, they're a nonbeliever. So they're, they're just like,

KYLE: you're not, you're a non-believer if you're,

GARY: if you're not, like, you know. So I think for me it was kind of like, Hey, I, I had this moment where it's like everything I had been uncomfortable and in the interim I had had a bunch of unique, I won't get into all the experiences, but just enlightening experiences, so to speak, and challenging experiences.

So then I just responded with Grace and I called them. Outta that church if I randomly called 'em up and I just made amends.

KYLE: Hmm.

GARY: And so out of that came, respond, came some relation. How did you, I mean, appreciated it, but basically it said, yeah, you're a total prick and judgment, whatever. Um. And then since then, Marie and I have had him and a partner over at our [00:11:00] house.

KYLE: Okay.

GARY: Uh, for dinner one time. And, uh, even that I'm wondering like, Hey, have I done the right things? I dunno, I probably haven't processed enough and thought about enough, but, but I felt betrayed in the sense of like, Hey, this is who I thought you were. You know? Yeah. Like you shook the core of kind of what I, you know, like a lot of, well, I think a lot of the light I held

KYLE: in is based

GARY: on

KYLE: Well he do there.

Yeah. What he did there I think is more than just. Being gay, you left your family. Right? Like you left what you were responsible for. So I think it's, there's two things. There's like

GARY: Yeah, that's a separate issue.

KYLE: You know, separate issue. You know, that just like if you're leaving for another woman

GARY: Yeah.

KYLE: Right. That's you're, you're leaving what you are responsible for.

GARY: Yeah.

KYLE: And, and you made a covenant even though maybe it was with the wrong person. People believe that our heterosexual,

GARY: there again, people who are not Christians look at marriage and the idea of co. Covenantal. And I think that's where Christians don't look at it enough as a covenant.

KYLE: That's right.

GARY: And that's why Christians leave easily

KYLE: my covenant's, a covenant's a covenant. Like, like go look at the

GARY: between you and God, not between you and your spouse.

KYLE: That's right.

GARY: Anyways.

KYLE: But if you've made it with the wrong, if you're a guy, if you've made it with the wrong girl, you're there. You're, it's still a [00:12:00] covenant and, and so if it's like you find out later that maybe, hey, you're gay, you've still made a covenant.

So I think that's, I think that's one thing. There's

GARY: a lot more to the story with him even, which I would just leave out.

KYLE: But the, the second part though, about him, like someone just, uh, um, coming out as gay. Yeah. The church is how you, how would you respond to, uh, Christian coming out then in the church?

GARY: I mean, I think the Christian response is to live a celibate lifestyle, even if you have same sex attraction.

I think that the. Idea is, and this is where I think we go really wrong, because in our culture we, we pedestal sins, right?

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: You know, with that being one of the worst ones. And then of course, you know, maybe sleeping with your girlfriend not as serious and then, you know, well as long as you don't get her pregnant, you're not like those kind of weird things.

Exactly. We, we do all that crap. Or like perpetual pornography and masturbation addictions for some reason we just don't talk about it. So then it's okay 'cause nobody's talking about it and you just wear the shame silently. So I think from my perspective, I just think that we. We whitewash what we wanna whitewash and [00:13:00] we paint things in a horrible light that we, so that we're uncomfortable with.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: Um, I think that sin is sin in God's eyes. Um, obviously I think a

KYLE: lot of

GARY: things that cause more damage, like I think even the idea of, like you say, somebody leaving their family, um. This guy. And there again, I would encourage people to study other stuff that he says. I think he's biblically sound to my, to my knowledge if, if he's not, I apologize, I haven't done a huge amount of research, but this Christopher Yuan guy just really, yeah.

Just gave me a lot of context. And other ones, Rosaria Butterfield.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: If people have people in their life that are, are, are, are, uh, dealing with this type of stuff. Right. The secret

KYLE: thoughts of an unlikely convert.

GARY: Yes. I bought that book as well. And, um. I just feel like in our church culture, it's just so funny how we would just look at it so different, right?

Like some guy will show in our church. Well, other churches are different probably. But in our church you would show up with your girlfriend and you may well be doing the wrong things and nobody's like ostracizing you anyway. Exactly. They might at some point question, they're looking at you funny. But if two dudes walked [00:14:00] in and they were holding hands, you know.

Somebody would be lighting their hair on fire. I mean, you for sure. A hundred

KYLE: percent.

GARY: No, and I'm, I'm just saying, Hey, we, we, we, we label sins and we prioritize them based in our human mind of what we, whatever we're. However we feel, and I think that part's wrong, right? So, um, when a Christian is in that spot, I mean, Christians need to be called to account.

And I think that's, that part is part that I, I'm not qualified to comment on. That's the part I wrestle with when somebody would say to you, Hey, I literally feel this attraction, you know? And I've, I've had this come out of a guy's mouth many times. To me it's like, yeah, I feel this attraction. But I was, I was like, I'm married and I, but I like.

You know, I just,

KYLE: yeah.

GARY: This does not feel natural to me. Right. Yeah. And so like who am I? Like am I the one to say, well, just doesn't matter or, yeah. Like right are wrong. Well, what

KYLE: do you say to me when I'm attracted to

GARY: another woman?

KYLE: Yeah. It doesn't matter, Kyle.

GARY: Right? No. So in that sense, I, I'm, I'm saying those sins are the same, but I'm saying to, to not have a desire for [00:15:00] this is where it's confusing for a person that's struggling, same sex attraction, where they'd be like, Hey, God wants people to live in heterosexual, you know, marriages.

Right. And now they have, we have all kinds of

KYLE: desires.

GARY: We have all kinds of deviant desires. We do. Not everybody but you And I

KYLE: do like, yeah. Like it's, our brains are not, we're weird, not job. So

GARY: anyways, this is a lot of talk about this, but yeah, it is important. It is important because it's not talked about enough.

I can assure you of that.

KYLE: One. One thing though, you said about having that, that co, that those, uh, that couple over Rosa area, Butterfield, who you mentioned, that book, the Secret Lots, lots of an unlikely convert. She was a lesbian professor at a university and she got saved, uh, um, partially through a pastor who wrote her a letter and she, he couldn't figure out, she couldn't figure out if this was a hate mail letter or if it was a love mail letter.

Because she had two piles. 'cause she had wrote an article in their newspaper of their university and she couldn't figure out where this pastor landed was a

GARY: Christian university?

KYLE: No.

GARY: Okay.

KYLE: And, but she couldn't figure out where this pastor landed and so she. Emailed him, reached [00:16:00] out to him and he had her head over for lunch, and then she came over for lunch again.

She came over for lunch again. She came over for lunch again, and two years later she ended becoming a Christian. But she just like kept peppering the guy and they kept inviting him over. They always open with prayer. They were very clear about what they said, but they just like, it was

GARY: a couple, like a

KYLE: professor?

No, I, they had just her over. Um, but the couple like the wife? The wife?

GARY: Yeah. I'm saying it was her husband and wife.

KYLE: Husband and wife, yeah.

GARY: Okay.

KYLE: Anyways. She now has written a second book called The Gospel. Comes with a House Key.

GARY: I bought that

KYLE: one. Yeah. Or a dorky.

GARY: I bought that

KYLE: one. But she talks about how.

So much of people coming to faith in Christ and sharing the gospel is done in community and having an open home and, and knowing people, like actually knowing them, not preaching at 'em, knowing them. 'cause when people actually know you care about them as people, then it's gonna be much o easier for them to share with you that they're struggling with anything, the sex, anything, anything.

And then when you speak into their lives. The truth, which might be harsh and, and or just like brutally honest, they'll [00:17:00] be able to take it 'cause they know you love them and it's not coming from a place of like, preachiness. Uh, and, and I think that's really, really important because it, there's just too much pointing fingers from people, people we don't know.

GARY: Yeah. Or even do, I mean people tend to, even in, in our circle in our family will like drop. I think people drop little nuggets of things that they're are personal to them and test the waters and see how this person will respond.

KYLE: Oh yeah.

GARY: And at some point, and this will happen even in a marriage, I think, 'cause I see it where it's like, Hey, I.

I've trusted this person, I've shared little bits and I, I get it slammed back in my face or turned around on me or yeah. Used it as a weapon against me. And so I think, yeah, how we respond with sensitive information, I see even in my own marriage where quickly I can like respond in a negative way or a critical way, or get riled up when my wife's just trying to share her heart, but it's like I just can't take it, so I just respond poorly.

It's like, well, how quickly is someone gonna share their heart when they're getting skewered for

KYLE: exactly

GARY: something, right?

KYLE: That's right.

GARY: We, yeah, we would all say that we want people that are close to us.

KYLE: Mm-hmm.

GARY: And. [00:18:00] To be vulnerable and to trust us, right? Yeah. Yeah. But like, are we trustworthy? Right? Yeah.

So,

KYLE: and now we are, are we are, are we not being too sensitive, uh, as well? Yeah. I think 'cause sometimes we just need to like, just get used to it. Yeah. I remember cur Dave Curry telling me. So when, um, I told, first told Nicole that I'd been unfaithful, she didn't re like really respond at all for like six months.

GARY: Yeah. Just, no, no reaction.

KYLE: Nothing.

GARY: Okay.

KYLE: Like, it was just very, just like it was off. And, but then, so we started going for counseling and talking and, and, um, then that changed. Nicole started communicating, but it was like very, very angry at, at, at me and, and just, it should be

GARY: normal.

KYLE: Just like, yeah, of course.

But like, it was just like every type of, um, and it was really hard sometimes and uh, I remember talking to Curry about it and he's like, Kyle, she's communicating. Before you getting nothing.

GARY: Be thankful.

KYLE: Does it matter one day you wish she could work on how and like, making it nice round corners and stuff like that.

Mm-hmm. And communicating effectively. Right now she's communicating. So be happy 'cause that's more than you were getting before. [00:19:00] Uh, and, uh, I, that's really stuck with me, uh, just through other things as well. Just like, hey, sometimes. We don't like how someone's saying something, but what are they saying?

Like just take the time to actually figure that out and, and under like understand that because it's usually Yeah, and people are gonna suck at communicating sometimes too. And we can have, we can have grace for that.

GARY: Do you do anything exciting for the family Day long weekend? We're recording this just after the family day weekend.

This will be in the,

KYLE: no, so I, I didn't, because I work for myself, I didn't block cut off as a day off. Uh, like I didn't automatically do that. And so I have Calendly links that I send to people to schedule meetings with me. So I had four meetings with, um, people, uh, looking for jobs. Um, uh, yesterday morning.

Uh, and then I met with my, uh, people in the Philippines. Uh, but then I took the afternoon off. Okay. Uh, so we, uh, I'd lay in her over for dinner. We have her over for dinner every Monday night. It's my sister that's down Stro.

GARY: Yeah.

KYLE: And, um, yeah, it's good. [00:20:00] You, you went skating, right?

GARY: Yeah. The church had skating on um, Monday and then we did hikes on the weekend.

I did a, um, I don't think I told you this, I was gonna call you at one point. I did a 36 hour fast.

KYLE: Oh.

GARY: For the first time. So that was pretty interesting.

KYLE: You thought about calling me.

GARY: I just thought it'd be good for you. Right.

KYLE: I would've done it.

GARY: Yeah.

KYLE: Yeah. Tell me when.

GARY: What's the longest you've went?

KYLE: Um,

GARY: probably done that before because you've made some crazy weight loss

KYLE: days.

Probably three or four days.

GARY: Okay. With literally nothing but pretty much liquid.

KYLE: It was, uh, a lemon fast. I think it was. Okay. I think I had a seven day lemon, fast lemon drink fast like 10 years ago, but I would just go just water with a little bit of salt in it for a week. You wanna do that?

GARY: I don't think, I mean, I felt like 36 hours is pretty much near my max.

I would like to do a 72 hour one. I follow people on Twitter, some guys that do that. I think it's pretty healthy. Plus, I'm totally addicted to food. Right. It's my,

KYLE: yeah, fair enough. You serial guy?

GARY: Yeah, big serial guy.

KYLE: Okay. Uh, changing gears here. I was on Fox News this [00:21:00] morning, not a big Fox News guy. Every morning I look at Fox News.

I open CNN and I open Fox News.

GARY: Okay.

KYLE: And I'll see

GARY: which, see how they spend spun the day's events,

KYLE: spend days events. And then I'll look at, might look at BBCI almost never look at CBC or CTV or. National Post or any, any Canadian news outlets. I, I did look at Rebel News a couple weeks ago, uh, for it, but I couldn't really get into it.

But then I will go to, um, uh, YouTube and I'll watch, uh, uh, a bunch of um, uh, guys in there, uh, for some news. But anyway, that's, that's where I got my news. But that was a little bit off topic 'cause I was on Fox News this morning and there was a title of, this was the title of the article, grieving Parents Demand Changes after 26-year-old Euthanized under Con Controversial Law.

I was like, Hmm, that sounds like Canada. Yep. It was. So Margaret Marilla, it says, doctors helped their son Keanu, who suffered from diabetes and blindness to meet criteria for maid in Canada despite a history of mental illness. And so this [00:22:00] guy was 26 years old. He had type one diabetes and then he got blind from a, um.

He had been struggling since mental health with mental health issues since he had a car accident when he was 17. And, uh, he tried actually at 22 years old already to get, um, uh, made and to, uh, make it go forward. But they put a whole bunch of public pressure on and they got it, um, turned around and, and, uh, he was mad at first, but eventually he started, moved in with his parents again.

And either way, he, he went approved with it and, uh, he died. And I was just like, it was so upsetting to read, especially when you have like half of Canada like talking about ice problems down in the us. Like that's such a big deal when there's literally people that have broken the law that they're arresting versus, and here in Canada our own government is, has laws that allow their own citizens just to take their life 'cause they're down on themselves.

GARY: It's interesting 'cause I think the other thing that probably gets a little muddied in the waters here with this issue would be, um. [00:23:00] The fact that health records are very private, right? Mm-hmm. So like at what point is it like socially acceptable that all of a sudden, now we're gonna start, like at some point they're all of like, are they always gonna hide under the guise of, Hey, we can't talk about that 'cause that was private.

Or like, how do they know? Like, obviously the family now is saying, Hey, you had mental health concerns, but you know, if this was a. We were gonna do an Oh, okay. Like, so if we were gonna do an investigation, we would go and say, Hey, how many times did he see a psychologist? Was he under medication? Like, you know, all of a sudden we would all have a very different opinion if he had been under some, you know, on horse tranquilizers basically to deal with his Oh, yeah,

KYLE: yeah,

GARY: yeah.

Mental health. That's right. Crisis. Right? That's right. It's like we can't talk about that. 'cause that's just private information, right? Mm-hmm. Same thing I get when I go downtown and people are cracked out and they're doing drugs and like, you're not allowed to go in the same room as them 'cause it's, you know, confidential.

Right? I'm like, well like

KYLE: what are you talking

GARY: about? Where's the public shame? Like I'm saying, if you go down to like Ruth and Naomi's and you want to hang out with people doing drugs, you're not allowed in the room where they're doing drugs. 'cause they, and the same objection site. Yeah, because they're, it's, it's.

It's, it's [00:24:00] privacy issues. It's like, you know, yeah. If you stand and smoke cigarettes on a street corner, you get shunned and mocked and like

KYLE: Exactly. Yeah.

GARY: We stop

KYLE: or don't wear a mask.

GARY: Yeah. Or don't wear, I try to COVID in the rear view mirror, but hey, you can keep bringing it back to light if you need to.

KYLE: Oh, I'm just upset what the government did. Like we forget.

GARY: I don't think we forget. Ugh. I don't think we forget

KYLE: like the chucker thing still. Either way. What do you think about this main thing? Like does like that 26-year-old guy can just take his life in in this country? Like is, that's just

GARY: like, I guess my,

KYLE: have the most question

GARY: is how does we have the most

KYLE: liberal laws now in that area?

GARY: My question is, when does the pendulum swing like the transgender issue? That pendulum is swinging. Mm-hmm.

KYLE: Uh, where swinging to where,

GARY: uh, it's swinging from The thing of people, many people that probably wouldn't have dared speak up are at least starting to speak up and say, Hey, we're not gonna transition minors.

KYLE: I mean, I guess

GARY: I, we have entire provinces now that are saying, Hey, like, and that, you know. I would agree that the common, the quiet majority would agree that we [00:25:00] shouldn't be transitioning minors, but we have such a vocal

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: Percentage of people that are, are advocating that. Right?

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: Which, in the end, it just leads to, I don't wanna say death, but mutilate mu.

Mutilating mutilating the body for sure. Like

KYLE: yeah, it's

GARY: terrible. It's really sad. Right? So

KYLE: yeah, maybe in that area I can see going back. But I think 'cause 'cause I think even the UK went back and now they, uh,

GARY: don't you think? I think with May it'll go back or it's just the end of the world. I don't know.

But I mean, like, people are gonna, everybody's gonna start to be affected by it. Right. There will be somebody in their circle now, less in our circles. 'cause you know, we don't agree with that. Yeah. And we don't agree with suicide and stuff. But like the people that are, first of all, the people that are doing it don't consider it suicide.

Right. They've, they've whitewashed it into Oh yeah, yeah. Like. Calling it Maid and they've white. They, yeah. At the end my life. I'm

KYLE: just not

GARY: saying that. Yeah. Yeah. But I think, you know, I, I think just there again, it comes back to how we started our conversation about who's God. Yeah. And where's the moral authority.

Exactly. It's like if you get to decide that you're done, be careful when you're your own God. Like if you think you're a great ruler, you do not know the depravity of your own heart. Right? Yeah. Like, watch out. So I don't know.

KYLE: [00:26:00] Yeah.

GARY: I don't think it ends well, but it's also just really sad because it's always the marginalized and the, it's just the people that are in the worst spot.

Exactly. That are taking advantage of. Right, exactly.

KYLE: Always

GARY: people with good support networks and amazing family around them and good communities, hey, they might have all these issues, but

KYLE: yeah,

GARY: there's not, they're always in the meeting with their patient cousin or nephew or son, you know, other people where it's like, Hey, there's a disconnect where the family's broken.

Now they're being taken advantage of, and the next thing you know, they've killed themselves. Right. So I don't. It's pretty sad.

KYLE: Okay, moving on. Uh, you said the gospels for the desperate, do we realize how desperate we are? You put that note in there.

GARY: Oh man.

KYLE: Do you realize how desperate you are

GARY: sometimes?

KYLE: You still crying lots

GARY: sometimes? Yeah, I'm a pretty, pretty broken person.

KYLE: Okay, we'll move

GARY: on. Parenting brings me in. Oh, did I put any verses there? I was gonna read something.

KYLE: No, no verses Where

GARY: did I put the verses? I

KYLE: put somewhere You put mark one on Luke five in here too.

GARY: Okay.

KYLE: You put a lot of context for those as well.

GARY: Sarcasm of Kyle. [00:27:00]

KYLE: Uh, and you put in here your banker is not a business consultant sales person. Oh yeah.

GARY: I was hanging out with Buddy. Oh, we're

KYLE: skipping the Bible verse

GARY: straight there. Well, no, we'll go back to the Bible 'cause I got the Bible. We'll go back to Mark. Uh, we'll, I'll look

KYLE: up while you talk.

GARY: No, no, I have 'em.

Okay. You're good. You can, sure. Um, I was just interesting. I was hanging out with a friend the other night, um, who probably has more debt than I do. And we were just talking about some of the troubles that are forming in. In farming, and not just farming, but just in general in a society from the debt that's been incurred in the last five to 10 years.

And he said that, oh, I know your banker's not your uh, not your buddy. Right. And it is fascinating how people of all ages, I think, older people, even more mm-hmm. But probably younger people too. Um. They just consider like people that are in business, they consider their banker to be like this advisor and they don't realize that the banker is literally just selling them the debt.

Like a bank, a banker, maybe in the seventies, they're a business was that way. They're a business and their business is selling you debt. Yeah. They get paid their Christmas bonus based on how much money they land you. Exactly. And I've realized that 'cause I've owed [00:28:00] large sums of money, varying degrees and I always found that they're quick, quite readily available to give it to me.

Um, fascinating enough, I always find that. They least give it to you when you really need it. Like that's been my experience. Well,

KYLE: that's good. Kind of the point. No, 'cause they know your.

GARY: I guess so, but it is interesting when you're starting, even for me, like starting in business, it's like, man, I could have just used like to borrow hundred or 200,000 or Oh, okay.

Now like I feel like, yeah, I need some money to buy equipment.

KYLE: You don't think that,

GARY: like, now I'm struggling borrowing money again. Right. Where it's like, you know, four years ago I, I had a huge amount of money I could borrow, so

KYLE: Oh, okay. But that, that's 'cause. There's, there's equity to equity,

GARY: erosion. No.

It's more just risk and the times have changed. Yeah. And because people are defaulting on loans. In the space that I'm in, in agricultural space, there's, you know, blueberry farms, dairy farms, numerous businesses at farms that are getting in trouble. Yeah. Where for many, many years. The land value went from 10,000 an acre where we live to a hundred thousand an acre.

So it just didn't matter. Like you're protected by a, um, I would always say you're protected by, uh, another, uh, [00:29:00] appraisal. Yeah. You know, you just go back and, you know, yeah. Nothing changed other than you got a new appraisal, you got a new leaf up. Lease on life from the bank 'cause you've got more equity and you could carry on.

Now banks are starting to ask, Hey, how are you gonna pay for this? Yeah. And what is the payback plan? And, and for the space that I'm in with equipment sales and that type of stuff, it's very risky, right? Yeah. Equipment gets old, it's all of a sudden it's selling for quote unquote 50% or, you know, they have these, I've seen it just even in the auction business, right?

So it was just interesting how people will blame their banker when it goes poorly. Like I've heard, like publicly, like publicly crapping on the banker. And I mean, I would agree that the banker didn't help, but you have to know the spot that they're in.

KYLE: Yeah. And you have, you have to make your own decisions.

If someone sells you something, a car, and it was,

GARY: you said yes.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: You signed

KYLE: Exactly.

GARY: So if you incurred the debt, be assured that they're not gonna gonna be your debt. It's your debt. And, and they don't necessarily think you can pay it. But that is where that right, in that crux of that thought is where people get in trouble.

They assume that if the bank gives them the money that the bank thinks they can pay it back. And the bank would say, yes, we do, based on the information that you've given us. [00:30:00] But I mean, I feel like financials, even in my business, they change from year to year and things are volatile and you best have a bit of a healthy buffer.

And

KYLE: so you said it, you wish it was easier when you first started a business to be able to, um, borrow a couple hundred grand. I, I would argue that if you're starting a business, I guess depends, really depends on what you're starting, but that being stuck with a small amount of money

GARY: is healthy,

KYLE: is really good.

GARY: You're not, you're not wrong. You're not wrong. I take it back.

KYLE: Okay.

GARY: I take back what I said. It's good to struggle. Yeah. And all the characters built in the struggle.

KYLE: That's right.

GARY: Yeah. And I think your last, that's how you

KYLE: understand the work and

GARY: everything. Well and most people as a general rule. So I also read another book while I was driving up to Derby.

I went and did some showings farms up there in the last week. And uh, I listened to the E-Myth book. I dunno if you have you read it. Great book for you to read. Another great book goes on a bit long.

KYLE: Okay.

GARY: But it's the E-Myth Revisited. I think the guy's written numerous versions, interestingly enough.

Wikipedia to him after I finished reading most of the book and he'd been married four times and so I felt like I needed to

KYLE: take a bath.

GARY: Yeah, take a bath. I was just like, why am I listening to this dummy? But [00:31:00] anyways, I digress. A lot of good stuff in there. He talks about the three types of people that make up a, a business person, be like the technician, the manager and the entrepreneur.

And he talks about how most. Business owners as a general rule, small businesses across North America are just technicians that got sick of working for the man and wanted to start their own business. Yes. And it's like they don't realize what it all means to be an entrepreneur. They don't understand all parts of being a business.

Yeah. And that really resonated with me 'cause I see many people that are phenomenal mechanics, let's say, and then they're gonna be like, oh, I'm gonna open up my own mechanic shop. And some will do. Well 'cause some will have enough of a skillset to kind of point it together. Fascinating to hear, even for myself kind of realize like, Hey, what pieces am I in?

KYLE: Yeah. I mean, you see that, I actually, I've seen that in the firearms industry quite a bit where you saw a lot of companies that were capping out the three at the three to $5 million mark, and it was because they were guys that loved guns and started screwing around on the back, back shed and started making something and selling it, whatever.

And then they started making different parts, whatever, and, and, uh, but they are just. It's their hobby. It's what they love to do. Like that's what they do when they weren't working [00:32:00] right and ended up being their work. And they're not necessarily have the skills to, you know, um, you know, and they, and they're very opinionated on doing it a certain way because guns are very much like, this is what my dad said and my grandpa used this gun and stuff like that.

And so you're kind of tunnel visual, tunnel vision almost even in what you're thinking is possible.

GARY: Yeah. You're able to, yeah.

KYLE: Um, which I think was actually an advantage that MDT had early on was that, uh, I didn't have any really. Firearms history, whatever. Didn't grow up guns.

GARY: You

KYLE: guys are

GARY: all, everybody at MD t was a blank slate.

KYLE: Well, for for sure. A lot of people in leadership were. And so, okay, it like gives you really open mind, right? Because you're just like, you need to listen to the people. What are the actual people, customers and saying and stuff like that and listening to them. And that's what you're creating. 'cause you're like, I don't, I'm not the expert here.

So you're listening a lot. The expertise came in like running the business side

GARY: and building stuff that people want.

KYLE: That's right.

GARY: Fascinating.

KYLE: Yeah. And that made a big difference.

GARY: Okay.

KYLE: Talking about debt. Paid a huge amount of debt last.

GARY: Okay.

KYLE: Couple weeks. That's awesome. Got my first payment from, uh,

GARY: that's awesome.

Good for you.

KYLE: MDT share. So, [00:33:00] uh,

GARY: how did that feel?

KYLE: It feels good. Feels relieving because I was paying a lot of CRA debt.

GARY: Nasty. Those guys are ruthless too.

KYLE: Yeah. So when I go,

GARY: they don't care if you feed your family, man.

KYLE: No, they do. And they'll just

GARY: take the money. They do.

KYLE: They do

GARY: not care.

KYLE: They do not. So they, uh, in 2020 or 2021, it was one of my best years at MDT, so I would get big checks and they asked me, do you want to get taxes taken off or not?

I'm like, nah, I don't want taxes taken off. I can invest it myself and I can make grant money. I

GARY: cannot believe this.

KYLE: And then it was bad decision. And then, and then, uh, at the end of the year be like, oh, I, a whole bunch of taxes. I'm like, oh, they're only charging me 6%. It's just like, it's basically a cheap loan.

Oh, no. Anyways, so I've, since that, who

GARY: do you attribute that thinking to? I. That thought of like who were you asking? Anybody advice? Like, Hey, should I pay off the C?

KYLE: No, I was most, I was totally, most alone. Totally. Most, mostly alone, most of my life. So you just have to figure it out.

GARY: You just figure it out.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: The hard way, obviously.

KYLE: Yeah. Always. Usually the hard way. Yeah. You just, you just, you just kind of go whatever. And

GARY: that's fascinating. That's something that most people [00:34:00] don't realize that they can change in their life. Just how much hardship can be avoided by asking other people. I see that even in our own little businesses where I'm like, guys, we don't need to struggle with this man.

Somebody's gone before us in this path. That's right. And most people are pretty open to kind of giving pointers or,

KYLE: well, it's, it goes against their pride, right? Asking

GARY: for help. Do you think that's what it is?

KYLE: Yeah, I think it's, I think it goes,

GARY: I think it's almost just lack of understanding of how knowledgeable other people are.

KYLE: That's true too. But I think for you, if you are calling someone and saying, Hey, I'm not sure what to do next here, my hey business.

GARY: You'd have to be pretty humble to do that.

KYLE: I think so.

GARY: Yeah. Yeah. My issue always is I know exactly what to do and I struggle taking the hard step. I know how I'm working on it though.

I'm working on it.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: It's interesting even in farming, like when

KYLE: you build, what, sorry, I wanna back up. What do you mean by that? Like, what do you mean you know what to do?

GARY: I al I typically know the decision.

KYLE: Okay.

GARY: As a general, not always, but like for example in the hay business, I know exactly what my steps should be.

One of them.

KYLE: Okay. Yeah.

GARY: And to do it is, is difficult. Okay. So I have my comfort zone a bit [00:35:00]

KYLE: because.

GARY: Uh, 'cause I don't like change. I think just this idea of spending more in some, I as a general rule, I've been hesitant to spend money where I should spend money.

KYLE: Uh, is that like, um,

GARY: in every business,

KYLE: like in, in a way that's wisdom though, right?

Like you're slow to make a decision. Have you always been that way? Is that growing

GARY: more? Yeah. No, of course I'm very impulsive, but it's, and I'll err radically drop money on ridiculous things like a mechanical bull. So it's not that I'm that wise, it's more just in the areas of,

KYLE: I get it.

GARY: I kind of kinda the same way.

Yeah. I'll give you an example. Our shop bought a wheel alignment machine. It was expensive. I think $25,000. Now we do wheel alignments at Tech Alliance in Rosedale, but like in the past, I wouldn't have done that. I'd have been like, oh dude, you know, how long is it gonna take to pay it back? That's just a big purchase.

Yeah. We would be doing okay now where it's like, no, the shop, it's doing really well, but it's like, Hey, there's a lot of opportunity and we already do a lot of front end work. It makes sense to offer that rather than send 'em somewhere else. They might not go get it if it's somewhere else and it probably should be done.

Mm-hmm. All these pieces, right now, it's just a great service that we offer at a, at a reason. Competitive rate. Yeah. But it's more in the like. Even on the dairy [00:36:00] side and like farming, you see it with farmers where they'll like, farmers are very loyal people and they deal typically what they deal with. And they'll be building, let's say a brand new barn.

And there could be a great, like for example, a basic thing, a lot of farmers would, farmers would agree with me, you should have a deep beded sand stalls in a bar.

KYLE: Hmm.

GARY: You have a way better barn. Yeah. Like cow comfort is paramount. Yeah. And cows are most comfortable in that.

KYLE: The more production too, right?

GARY: Oh, way more. Way more. And the more cows. Cows produce, I want to say. Almost five or 10 times. I can't remember the number, but five times as much. Milk, when they're laying down is when they're standing up. So you want your cows laying down in your barn. Okay. When they're not eating, they should be laying down.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: Or getting milked, right? Yeah. That's just, that's just math. And I can't remember the percentage or the number, but, um, so guys will build a new barn and they'll go to a sales, you know, they'll have their favorite sales person who's gonna help 'em design the barn. Well, if that sales guy sells rubber mats for a stall, well now they're putting rubber mats, you know, he's gonna sell 'em on how it's gonna save him on bedding.

And, you know, the sand's gonna wear out his equipment. So, oh, don't go to sand, or, you know. Like there's always a re, you can always justify whatever. Bad decision you're gonna make in life. We know that, [00:37:00] right? Yeah. We've justified a lot of them. And so it's just fascinating how if you just went open slate and said, you came to me and said, Hey Gary, can you just tell me who the best fire farms you know are?

Yeah. And I'd tell you them and the best five farms ironically would all have deep beded sand barns.

KYLE: Hmm.

GARY: And they would all sell me cows rather than buy cows. And it's just all these,

KYLE: yeah,

GARY: of course I'm neutral because, you know, I don't even have bed sand barn. But

that

KYLE: would be more, I ignorance. To like, just like not knowing

GARY: it is, but I think it's the idea of just getting tunnel vision.

I don't know if it's tunnel vision or what it would be, but it's just the idea of trusting one person.

KYLE: Oh, yeah.

GARY: And also we have a bias in life once we've made a decision. Uh, it's like the sunk cost fallacy where we have to carry on with that.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: Where we can't renege. And I think that's what's really cool when you can, and I think I'm learning to do it, probably not enough, but there's probably other people I know that do it really well where it's like, hey, you can go quite a ways down the garden path and if something's not working out.

Just call it, speak it publicly.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: We're torching this, we're right. Like,

KYLE: yeah, it's okay to stop things.

GARY: What's that?

KYLE: It's okay to stop

GARY: things. It's okay to stop things and say that you're wrong. And [00:38:00] they, and, and there's no shame in that. And I think part of that ties into the idea of even, Hey, we can never do any wrong.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: And everybody's judging

KYLE: or you don't want conflict.

GARY: Or you don't want conflict. And there's usually some mess that comes with admitting. Totally. You're totally right.

KYLE: Yeah. Interesting. Okay. Uh, school shooting. That's pretty wild.

GARY: I put that in the show notes.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: Okay.

KYLE: That's pretty wild. A, a school shooting in Canada.

I had a guy from New York text me, um, bill Maher. Okay. Um, and he said, Hey, I hope you're all good up there. And so it must have made the news.

GARY: Yeah, it did. It made it all across North America. It's really Makes sense. It's really awful.

KYLE: Yeah. Yeah,

GARY: yeah. Yeah. It was interesting that it was from a family that had guns.

I mean, I think more people have guns up there than do down here. Just 'cause it's rural, right? Like it's a pretty small town where this happened. Yeah.

KYLE: I don't, haven't seen much Canadian news, uh, on the response on the guns thing. Is that, is that gonna, is the government talking about taking more guns away now because of this?

GARY: I think they're already taking away a lot. They're taking

KYLE: away a lot.

GARY: They're taking away a lot. [00:39:00] I don't know if they're gonna come after more guns.

KYLE: It's very, it's terrible. It's

GARY: really terrible.

KYLE: It's, it's so terrible. Like just the devastation those families and stuff like

GARY: Yeah. I always find it, I always kind of think like just really terrible things happen all the time.

Privately they're happening right now. They're, I dunno, I always feel this feeling of like, people sensationalize things. I mean, it is tragic. Yeah, it's awful. And I don't have the answer to it other than it's like Right. A lot of broken,

KYLE: this is constantly happening everywhere. Yeah.

GARY: I guess the, the angle I always land and people pick their things to.

Put a flag up for a hockey stick up for, it's like, you know what? People have hard, brutal things that they're dealing with every day in their lives. And I think if we just stick in the circle of our own world, hopefully, yeah. And we're living on, you know, honest, vulnerable lives with people, we could have, we could just really engage and really bless people and make a difference in our own community.

And I don't think there's any answer to a school shooting. I think the. It's just

KYLE: awful.

GARY: It's awful. And whatever happened, like I, I, like I say, there's no, [00:40:00] there's no, uh, editorial piece that's gonna succinctly We may agree with the angle or agree with the bent.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: But yeah, it's just brutal. And I don't, like I say, I don't

KYLE: suffering.

GARY: There's not much else to say with kids. I mean, it's closer

KYLE: to home though, right. It it

GARY: because it's here. But I mean, if it happened in Chillowak, like yeah. Okay. Maybe it's some families we know, like, you know, if it happened in our own family, now we're grieving. I I'm just saying like people are using kids all the time.

Yes. People are, I'm saying, you know, people are all horrible. Things are happening behind. I always feel like the worst things are happening that nobody knows about. That's how I feel. Yes.

KYLE: Always.

GARY: The real monsters keep things secret and I just feel like we, we do better to just bring things to light in our own little spheres and, and seek truth and peace and

Yeah.

GARY: So if

KYLE: you're doing something, if you're listening to this and you're doing something that nobody knows about. Anything. Go tell somebody

GARY: that goes in line with my other comment. What's that? I put another weird post on there. I dunno.

KYLE: Oh, okay. While, while you look that up.

GARY: No, it's on there. It's, it's just, I'll, I'll delete it though.

I don't wanna talk about it anymore.

KYLE: Okay, that's good. I still need someone, uh, to help create, uh, reels from this podcast. Uh, [00:41:00] so to take look at, look at the view of the podcast, look at the timestamps, find clips, uh, edit them into reels and then post them on social media. Um, and, uh, you need to be a listener of the show 'cause you need to understand, uh, what.

It's, uh, what hits, um, and what resonates most. Um, so, but if you don't know how to do any of that stuff, I can teach you how to do it. It's pretty, it's pretty straightforward. It just takes some time. Um, and I'll pay a bit too. Uh, it won't be a lot. Um, but, uh, I think if it does well then that, that can change in the future as well.

So, so if you're interested in that, let me know. And then also there's a whole bunch of other jobs I'm trying to fill. So, um, I will actually, uh, maybe I'll put those on the screen, uh, so you can pause it for a second if you're interested in any of those. Um, but otherwise I will have those on my website soon as well.

I'm gonna be updating my website, so we'll have the jobs listed there or trace coaching.

GARY: Okay.

KYLE: Different things. We go, uh, shoot a bison with Trey for three days, so you can go shoot a big bison, take the meat back up with you. Five. Okay. Uh, think 5,500 or [00:42:00] 6,000 US.

GARY: Is bison meat any good?

KYLE: I have no idea.

GARY: Who cares?

It's all about

KYLE: shooting. I know they're bison. Huge animals. At 1-year-old, he told me they're already 800 pounds.

GARY: Okay.

KYLE: Big animal. Um, but I had a sweet lodge. There's two NFL guys that he knows that, um, built this huge lodge. So it's like really nice, really nice living. And yeah.

GARY: Speaking of, uh.

The Super Bowl was a couple weeks ago and I was listening to a podcast about, um, oh man, Brad Vista's office is trying to call me. Um, I was listening to the Super Bowl ad. With Will Shatner in it. And it was funny. I don't know if it's worth the, oh,

KYLE: I, yeah, I, I, you, you sent that in there. That was terrible.

It's not funny at

GARY: all. Okay. Forget it. Scratch. It's not funny at all. It was so

KYLE: bad. Well,

GARY: it's 'cause I eat sha shit. It's 'cause I eat Kellogg's, uh, I eat Raisin Brown every day. Right. So it just struck course.

KYLE: Oh, okay.

GARY: That's why, sorry.

KYLE: Oh, makes sense. Okay,

GARY: makes sense now. Okay. Fair. Fair enough. And these people, they want to Google depravity.

They can look at the Will Shatner. Uh,

KYLE: yes.

GARY: Ad.

KYLE: Uh, what else? [00:43:00]

GARY: It's definitely funnier. It's funnier than anything we've said on here today. I could tell you that.

KYLE: Did we get anything else we need to talk about?

GARY: Oh, we can talk about all kinds of things.

KYLE: I got Tim Horton's Coffee of Shit. Um, who

GARY: put that in the show notes?

KYLE: Me.

GARY: Okay. Yeah, that's really bad. Anybody that's any, I would say this is a bold statement. Anybody that goes to Tim Horton's has literally never had a McDonald's coffee in their life.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: Is that fair?

KYLE: And they're going to that bathroom half hour later.

GARY: Yeah. Well, you can't eat there.

KYLE: You

GARY: won't make it out of the You can't

KYLE: there either.

No,

GARY: you will not make

KYLE: it. It's a tragedy though. 'cause people come to like, we're known as like candidate Tim Horton's. Like my family comes from Holland. Like we gotta go to Tim Horton's

GARY: actually.

KYLE: Oh yeah. Okay. It's a thing.

GARY: Ah, there's all kinds of cultural things that are horrible

KYLE: in countries now. It's owned by an American company that owns Burger King too.

GARY: No, it's outta Brazil. It's a Brazil company. Yeah.

KYLE: Okay. Are you gonna go back to those two bio verses too, by the way?

GARY: Well, they're connected to the thing, but I don't feel like we have time to talk about it. 'cause I feel like we gotta get going. But

KYLE: I, I don't, I got time. I gotta, you got

GARY: all the time in the world.

KYLE: I got time today so.

GARY: Well, I thought I would read the, well, 'cause you had a listener question, but it's too deep. I don't wanna get into the listener question today.

KYLE: Uh, I don't, I I don't even wanna, wanna go on [00:44:00] talk. It's about Sunday again for everybody who's listening. I, I just like, we've talked about that so much.

I'm like,

GARY: um,

KYLE: I could take this question.

Uh, lemme think about that a bit more.

GARY: Oh man. Moment of silence for all those that have gone before us.

KYLE: No, just get him to clip this whole

GARY: Did you have a question?

KYLE: I have a bunch of 'em. I have, um, I would be very interested to, to know your take on why your father's church is emptying after he is gone emeritus.

GARY: Oh. Qualified. You're not qualified to comment.

I can tell you right now,

KYLE: I'm very qualified. I know the, I know the answer to that question.

GARY: No, do not answer it.

KYLE: Um,

GARY: wisdom would be do not answer it.

KYLE: That's true. Put on Patreon.

GARY: No, just don't answer it. Just be wise. Right.[00:45:00]

Yeah. Anyways. I've been reading through Bible reading plans. It's pretty interesting. Mark one. Okay. That's why I put Mark one on there.

KYLE: You got Mark one on Luke five. You're gonna read Mark one on Luke five?

GARY: No, I can read the whole thing or

KYLE: no? No, just like pick one or two verses.

GARY: Oh, I don't have it in front of me, so now I'm gonna lose all credibility. But I think it came up in the sermon on Sunday too. Were you at church on Sunday?

KYLE: Yeah. It was amazing.

GARY: Yeah.

KYLE: It was one of the best sermons I've heard there.

GARY: Yeah, I would, I would say the same thing. I found it quite, I mean, it was pretty, uh, pretty heavy.

But, um,

KYLE: and, and Matt. Like, I hope that he doesn't listen to us, or his head doesn't pop. But he is a phenomenal communicator.

GARY: Yeah, he's a good preacher. Um, no stone unturned there.

KYLE: No.

GARY: But, um,

KYLE: oh, the rest of you, but

GARY: left unturned? Um, the, uh,

I've just been reading in, in Mark and I think, I don't know if it's [00:46:00] in the beginning of Mark or Luke, but, and I think it was in the sermon or maybe it was somewhere else, but it was just about how John the Baptist, um, was even kind of questioning.

KYLE: Yeah, me and Rob best talked about that. Did you talk?

GARY: Okay.

Maybe that's where it was from.

KYLE: Did you finish that podcast?

GARY: I did not finish. Rob's,

KYLE: you have to finish

GARY: it. I listened to the Paul. We, one, I did not finish Rob Best.

KYLE: Okay. For anybody that hasn't, that's listening to this and hasn't listened to my po, my interview with Rob Best titled How You Can Be Sure You Are Saved.

I think I, I chose or somebody else like that. Listen to it in full. It is awesome. And it'll give you hope and you'll have less fear, um,

GARY: or more fear depending on who you are.

KYLE: Well you can. You can.

GARY: That's up to you.

KYLE: It's up to

GARY: you. I kind tell people if they have less fear of welfare, you just don't dunno where they're

KYLE: coming from.

Matt. Matt Keen is like so excited right now. He's like, you guys are arminians. You're saying you don't have to have fear. You

GARY: can just Please, please. Well, he's not allowed to comment. Right. He's only allowed to comment on here. That's Matt. Your peanut gallery is silenced from now on. If you wanna talk, you have to talk publicly.

KYLE: Yeah, I send him that.

GARY: Right.

KYLE: I send him the conditions. Oh yeah. People may he, I get lot still get I get last week probably. They have

GARY: to choose between us. Two stooges and they get to have him along. [00:47:00] They're taking him for sure. Yeah.

KYLE: I did have one guy tell me this week though. He is like, I'm very happy Matt doesn't come on more often.

I'd never had that before, so,

GARY: okay.

KYLE: Yeah. People would be happy if I was off too. So

GARY: it's, it's whatever, right? Each everybody prefers certain voices and certain angles. And we were talking about

KYLE: Mark,

GARY: well about, uh, John the Baptist at one point was questioning Jesus disciples. Oh yeah. And I. Forgive me if I'm saying this wrong, but basically saying, Hey, like are you the one that we're actually supposed to be waiting for or is there somebody else?

That's

KYLE: right.

GARY: Yeah. He was in prison and it's problem. Oh yes, thank you. He was in prison.

KYLE: He was in prison and he was like, like, he was like, are

GARY: you sure that you're in the, he's started

KYLE: out, he's started it out.

GARY: He's starting to out and I think to me that was just really special reading that in the quietness.

KYLE: Mm-hmm.

GARY: In my, my own space thinking like, man, I do all kinds of stuff and like I have some. Doubts where it's like, I'm ashamed of my doubts. And I think we as Christians obviously are taught that, you know, how important the faith is and Yeah. But, and that's what Rob does talk about. I did hear that part where he talks about varying levels, right?

You could have varying levels of faith and um, just a mustard, a mustard seed, right? A mustard seed. And I think in our culture, there [00:48:00] again, we're taught to do everything perfectly and we're questioning whether we really have the right amount of faith and whether everything's real. And I think here you have a man that literally baptized Jesus.

He was. Called by God to do this. He was baptizing all these people and, and then seeing hearing miracles and seeing all this stuff and yeah.

KYLE: Now

GARY: he's like, are. Right.

KYLE: Yeah. But notice what he did though. He went into the disciples and he asked them like, Hey, like, help me out here. He went to his brothers and said, Hey, I'm struggling.

I'm doubting. Yeah. He didn't keep it inside of his head, and so he did

GARY: not keep it inside his head. People

KYLE: like, or just kind of mope about it or whatever else like that. So if you're doubting, if you're a Christian or not, there's something you can do about it. You can go talk to other Christians and you can go, like, investigate the Bible more and be like, is this actually true?

You know, and all the different things. So it's not a, there's no victim.

GARY: Mentality

KYLE: allowance there?

GARY: No. No, and I always feel like the people I hang out with often. Literally pull out the excuse card of like, my family's always done this, or I can't leave here, or I can't.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: It's like you're not bullshit.

You, you are, you can say that on this earth, but you will not get to say it at the end of your life. No. So like, [00:49:00] totally fine if you snowball me, but you're not snowballing yourself and you're, and it's not gonna be an answer to the Lord. Right. And I think that people need to really weigh out that and what, what are they called to do?

Completely unrelated and not near as important. Thought I'd give a little bit of a real estate update. 'cause I've had some pretty interesting phone calls in the last, over the weekend.

KYLE: Okay. Try to make it, try to make it succinct. Interesting. For the people in Ontario and America,

GARY: or do they get upset? Do they send you feedback and say, give us something.

KYLE: I care, care, I care about the listeners.

GARY: Oh man. I'm not gonna start giving updates on the, you know, our one listener in West Virginia. Like, I have no idea

KYLE: what's going on over

GARY: there.

KYLE: No, just give context.

GARY: Uh, the context would be, yeah, no, that's fair. So I was interested in buying a house in Chillo Rock. It was listed at about 7 50, 7 80,

KYLE: mm-hmm.

GARY: About three years ago. And I watched it and watched it and I thought maybe it could be an apartment site. So I've been watching it because I'm kinda looking one day to maybe have, you know, put two or three houses together to build an apartment on. Yeah. And, uh, this place. It was listed and I'm like, ah, I'd probably pay six 50 for it, right?

Or you know, maybe 6 75.

KYLE: Yep.

GARY: Crap house, but huge lot. [00:50:00] Nine, 9,000 square foot lot and uh, all of a sudden, boom, it sold at seven 30. Like, oh wow. That's quite a bit, right. Well, Murphy's Law, as often happens in Chillowak with the type of people that are buying houses right now. It's for sale again a year later for 8 99, 9 something.

KYLE: Whoa.

GARY: Oh yeah. 'cause that's, you gotta make money. Right? So it's like nine something, then it gets lower to eight something and now it's for sale at 7 99. Right. Well I got a call from realtor yesterday that said, Hey, like just make a low, low offer. Like very, very motivated client. You've shown interest before.

'cause I had messaged the new realtor once it was listed again. Is

KYLE: that actually allowed? Are you allowed to know that?

GARY: Do you know what

KYLE: is a realtor?

GARY: How motivated he is?

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: He is supposed to do his fiduciary duty. A realtor is to do whatever's best for his client.

KYLE: Okay.

GARY: So he's allowed to say anything if he has permission, he's not allowed to break confidentiality in any ways.

yeah.

GARY: So like if he said something that he didn't get permission to say? Yeah. Like for instance, if his, like his client had said to him, Hey, call Gary, um, call anybody that has shown interest, I'm motivated. I'll take X amount. Yeah, he's allowed to call, which is what he did. Okay. I don't think he, you know, I [00:51:00] did a bit more digging and found out some more carnage on the place and like, I think.

KYLE: Fair enough.

GARY: There's people that owe way more than their places are worth all over the place. Oh, and banks, as a general rule in our market, and this is just not in bc, this is more in Ontario, actually probably more than here, but definitely in the lower mainline, there'd be a lot of places that are quoted on, we would say underwater.

The banks will go along with the facade for as long as they can if the person's making the payment. Especially like, like a private lender might not. Yeah. If I'm lending the money, somebody personally, we might not, because we know that we could end up losing more and more the lower the value goes. But a big bank, they want to keep things out of the receiver camp.

They, they want to keep, yeah. It's called loan loss provisions. Is what the correct term is.

They

KYLE: wouldn't even know that necessarily. Right. If you own a

GARY: place, uh, they, they, they wouldn't know it like a private lender would. 'cause when I lend money to somebody, I know exactly what the house is worth that I lent the money on and I'm watching the market.

No, they wouldn't to that extent, but I mean, they would know. They would, their whole book would be probably, you know. In in a spreadsheet and anything that was bought between August of 2021 and February of 2022 In Chillax. Yeah. And [00:52:00] Abbotsford got the entire main lab. They

KYLE: can see those.

GARY: They can see all those, and they know all of those.

If they were bought with a low amount of money down are all upside down.

KYLE: Okay.

GARY: And those are starting to get flushed out now? Like you're seeing multiple listings? I would say a day, but for sure a week and just in our area. And why are they getting selling a loss?

KYLE: They're able to make the payments, I guess.

Interest rates went up.

GARY: Yeah. And I think people, what would happen is. You know, your average person, first of all, doesn't wanna lose their house. Um, they might lose their job, and all of a sudden now they're, they can compare. They can't even make their payment. Oh yeah. So now it's like, Hey, you know what?

And the other thing that happens, you walk

KYLE: away from it.

GARY: Yeah. And in the same market, rent has went from, you know, let's just say in chill lock a house, a really nice house. Before it was 3,500. Now you could probably rent a pretty, I don't, I'm just spit balling here, but you could probably rent house for 2,500.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: So now it's like, oh. All of a sudden my payment at 3,500 is horrible. I literally have zero equity in this house. Yeah. I don't think the market's gonna rebound for the next three years. Yeah. I'll do the bankruptcy thing or walk away from this. Yeah.

KYLE: That's what, it would've happened to me if I didn't sell my place.

GARY: In hindsight.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: You wouldn't have realized it at the time.

KYLE: Well, I, I sold it a really good time.

GARY: Yeah. You sold it at a higher [00:53:00] time.

KYLE: Yeah, it was still, but if I, but

GARY: I think it was still a fair price.

KYLE: It was a fair price. Yeah. I'm just saying if I would've held onto it and my interest rate, I was, went from a 1.0 I see, to 7% interest rate on a big mortgage, and I wasn't really making the payments anymore, and the value was going down.

If I would've done everything I could to hold on for two more years. I would've

GARY: been really upside down. Yeah. Way. The other thing is, people with a house, it would be the very last thing that people will let go. So people will default on a couch payment or whatever weird payment they have. They'll, they might even cancel Netflix.

I don't think so. I think they'd probably lose their house before they cancel Netflix. But you know, they'll cancel some of these subscriptions.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: You know, before they'll lose their house. The house would be the very last payment they stop making as a general rule. Yeah. 'cause that's their security for their family to live.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: Um, so it's just fascinating to see it. It just, it's a big ball. So

KYLE: would you recommend that people need to sell, would just need to sell their place and. Have, uh, a little bit left over. They need to pay off. Like, like

GARY: people are doing that. People are adding money in. So remember how last week on Marie's podcast we talked about those condos closing?

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: People that are upside down in equity on a condo closing [00:54:00] are saying, Hey, I already paid the down payment of a hundred thou 80,000.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: Right. The purchase price was 500,000. I'll sell it to you for a hundred thousand less and I'll eat the entire difference just so they don't lose their credit.

'cause lots of these people have other stuff of equity about Oh, okay.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: So there's definitely people just literally writing off.

KYLE: Yeah,

GARY: there's, there's apartments in Vancouver where people are losing a million dollars and they're reselling

KYLE: them.

GARY: Oh, there's just BA baths. There's, that's at the extreme luxury end.

KYLE: Yeah.

GARY: Yeah. But it's very calm.

KYLE: But those are the kind of guys that are running, losing a million dollars in a business deal here and there too.

GARY: Yeah, but I think it's fascinating When the market is really hot, everybody gets leveraged, even rich people. That's right. I think everybody thinks, you know, the snowball gets bigger, the wealthier you are, you know?

KYLE: Did you do that as well? Like, would you have fallen into that or, or did I fell into, did you learn enough along the way that

GARY: you didn't? I think I was ingrained. I had, uh, my cousin who's extremely prudent. Risk adverse.

KYLE: Okay.

GARY: Like not risk averse, but like very prudent.

KYLE: Your business partner.

GARY: Yeah.

KYLE: Okay.

GARY: Yeah, he would be like, think worst case scenario, so he kind of taught me really well.

KYLE: Okay. Interesting.

GARY: Um, my parents, is he older than

KYLE: you?

GARY: Yeah, he's five years older. My [00:55:00] parents are very fiscally responsible. So like that whole indoctrination of the age of not living beyond your means, which I never listened to, but you know.

KYLE: Yeah. 'cause you still had a whole bunch of years where you didn't

GARY: Yeah, but I mean, by the grace of God it just kind of worked out.

Right. And like I had leveraged, so for example, in the early two thousands I owned four houses. Right? Which, like, I had an income of probably $60,000 a year, but I was getting private mortgages and I didn't even know what a private mortgage was at the time. Oh yeah. Yeah. So I was doing weird stuff.

KYLE: That's, that's what the kind of stuff I was doing.

GARY: I was doing exactly. When you talk about the CRAI was doing these things that made no sense. Now there again. Sometimes printing money, sometimes it works out. Um, you don't get to claim wisdom when something stupid works out. 'cause the timing is right. Yeah. It's like,

KYLE: it's like we make it like 400 grand on Bitcoin and be like, yeah,

GARY: yeah.

Didn't sell it though.

KYLE: Yeah, exactly. So, and then all of a sudden it's,

GARY: yeah, and I think that's where, for me. I think timing. Timing is just critical and you don't, you can't time the market, but you can definitely be prudent in the sense of, Hey, flush out scenario A, B, and C and make sure you can live with scenario C as well, or at least a version of it.[00:56:00]

KYLE: Yeah, or going back to how we started this podcast for the third time now is who is your God? And

GARY: don't cling too tightly to anything.

KYLE: Yeah. And like be responsible, like do the right thing. It's not about your comfort or where you live or all

GARY: those, it is hard though. It is hard. It's hard to do the right thing when the rubber meets the road.

Everybody in theory, wants is, wants to be a person of integrity

KYLE: and everyone needs to learn. Right? Everyone's 20. At some point. And then even,

GARY: even if you're 60, just learn it.

KYLE: Yeah,

GARY: no, people when they're older learn it too, right?

KYLE: Yeah, yeah.

GARY: You're always learning. Same. You might not even, you might not even be put into a spot where your integrity is really tested until you're older.

'cause you may have had a relatively easy path. Yeah. I actually never thought of that. You know, there's people that I've met, like I went on a farming tour one time and met pig farmers. And pig farmers have a history of going broke, especially like in the prairies. Mm-hmm. And I went with. A friend to go look at some pig farms and like, we met this one guy and like he went broke.

He went broke gracefully. He went, he got to stay living in his own house and eventually did buy the farm back from the bank.

KYLE: That's cool. '

GARY: cause he kept relationships and was respectful always. And so there's just a lot to be learned from people that I went through hard things.

KYLE: Yes, that's right. Yeah. Yeah, I [00:57:00] agree.

Um,

GARY: I have a

KYLE: wrap meeting

GARY: in Abisford. That's a wrap. Thanks guys. Have a great week.

KYLE: All the best in the future.

Oh, the goal was ready. She was gonna do it, man. All that anxiety for nothing. Oh, you hop in here. Leonard always needs it for the thumbnail.

‍

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