January 29, 2025

Forgiveness, Communion, & The LA Fires - The Briefcase and the Barn - Episode 28

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Kyle: [00:00:00] Welcome back to episode 28 of the Briefcase on the Barn, a series of the Fury Securia show of me and Gary, where we talk about Christianity, business, life, everything in between. Uh, hi Gary. Hey. Um, before we get started, show sponsor. So I. Talk about lockbox and I put my lockbox, uh, my TV, TV remote in my lockbox and the cord.

So I can't cast, but now I can't use my phone in the lockbox because it's locked up for like 11 days. So I bought a new lockbox. Great from, uh, what does it say on top? Don't worry,

Gary: even if you don't buy it because of the sponsorship, he just keeps buying more himself. So you're totally fine. Say

Kyle: goodbye to fill in the temptation here for the next how many hours?

Or minutes. Or minutes. Maybe

Gary: you're going to text that ex girlfriend. Or ex boyfriend, and you know you shouldn't. This will save, this would have saved me a lot of problems. Is that one? Fifteen years ago. Fifteen years ago. You can't get a clear one either. Like, don't be a fool and get a clear one. [00:01:00] I have a solid white one, so you can't be flipping the phone and banging it to see if you can get it to send a notification.

Not everybody's addicted to their phone as I am.

Kyle: Okay, so we're gonna put this in here for half hour. Half hour,

Gary: that's, yeah. Oh, that's two hours, that's not good. Whoa. Gary would be twitching. Twitching hard already. He's thinking about it. Okay. So once it's locked though, it's peace and serenity because it's locked.

Yes. And then you're good. Yes.

Kyle: It counts down and then it locks. Okay. Now locked stuff's locked up that way. When Gary takes piss break between the regular show and overtime, it doesn't take too long. But if you want to get one of these, they're super helpful. They actually make life much better and you're all addicts.

We know this. I wasn't actually the phone or something. So you go to the kitchensafe. com and use the coupon code curious, you get 10 percent off. Um, and yeah, they're just, they're awesome. So check that out. Also, if you're listening to this on YouTube, please subscribe because I'm almost at 500 subscribers.

And if I get there, then there's a [00:02:00] bunch more features that I get, uh, I get access to and stuff. How

Gary: many subscribers do you need to actually monetize? 500. You actually get, start getting, they start running ads

Kyle: and you start getting paid or? It's like, I actually, I should, I should double check. I don't know a hundred percent, but there's a, at the 500 mark, there's a bunch more features that I can start doing.

And I think, I'm pretty sure you can monetize at that point. Yeah. But it's going to be like. Literally cents or less than cents for how many views we get, but, or subscribe to a overtime, but yeah, anyways, how was your

Gary: week? Um, good. Yeah, really good. Uh, what have I been working on still seeing customers dropping off Christmas presents near like, uh, gifts.

Yeah. Well, cause it's like summer just kind of out in the boondocks. So as I go to places, I, and I kind of post fired back up again, as people know, they got forced back to go to work. So they're. I sent, I did a bunch of mail outs and stuff with, uh, this year we bought Yetis for our customers. If you're a [00:03:00] customer of mine and you didn't get a Yeti, send me a text and I'll make sure you get one.

I apologize. I'll buy one, just one bale of hay.

Kyle: Yeah, they're, they're expensive, man. They're like 44. We gave one away last week. Yeah. I don't know who, I mean, this is going to come out in the, on the 28th or something, but. Yeah, way later.

Gary: Way later. We're recording really early. So they're,

Kyle: we're not going to be recording for three weeks after this.

Gary: Okay. Do we have to do one more to catch up or do we have enough in the kitty? This will be enough. Okay. I'm not keeping track. So I just show up to talk. That's right.

Kyle: Okay. How did you like Trevor's episode?

Gary: Uh, yeah, it was interesting. I struggled a little bit in the sense that I feel like things like that are pretty sacred.

I feel like really, yeah, I don't know. It's just. You didn't, you didn't even want to publish it. I mean, I called you the day before and you were like, no, I don't think we should publish it. No, I think, I think that, um, I think, yeah, I just think it's really personal. I think that, um. But seeing as the first, his first episode came out, I think the second one was appropriate to share, um, because of that.[00:04:00]

So you changed your mind or? No, I just don't have all the answers and I'm not, you know, like I ran it by a few, a bit of wise counsel. I, I do think that, um, everybody has excuses for not forgiving. So like yourself, like we all have people that we just. are bitter towards just human nature, even little bits.

Like obviously some people are way easier going than others and some people that hurt way worse than others. So I think the beautiful thing about a guy like Trevor sharing his story. Uh, cause he's just an average dude that was, you know, just a great guy, a good friend of ours. Um, the thing that it should teach people is that there's no excuse.

So how are you personally going to get to the spot where the people that you can't talk to or the people that you're bitter towards that you can look at, you know, have the conversation. And, and every type of forgiveness exercise is different because some people you're going to forgive and you're going to have flourishing relationship and renewed relationship from.

Somebody that, you know, or in some cases, it's like, Hey, this is just for your own, like forgiveness is ultimately between us and God. Right. And so it's very [00:05:00] much about, um, our own spiritual and emotional health. And so maybe there's still boundaries and you just don't communicate with somebody cause there's somebody that's always hurt you.

So, um, that was really what I got out of it, where it's like, I know that people, cause I talk to people all the time that are, have issues with people. And it's like, well, the cool thing about it for me was just like, wow. What a story of humility and grace. And, and even just for people to apologize as hard, like I know how hard it is for me to say sorry for petty things that I should easily be able to say sorry for.

So, so when you can apologize for you, when you've caused deep hurt towards someone many years ago, it's a really special thing. And I think that, uh, I just think there's a lot of things to be learned from that story. And. Um, so it's not even about, to me, it's never about that. It's always about, okay, it's like any sermon, like how can you practically apply it to your own?

Like, what are we supposed to be learning from it? And so, yeah, cause there is like a,

Kyle: I mean, there, there is like an entertainment factor, I guess, or like a wow factor to it and stuff like that. But I do agree that it's good to just say none

Gary: of

Kyle: it. So it's

Gary: not really about that. Right. I

Kyle: just, what can you learn from

Gary: it?

Yeah. Apply it to

Kyle: your own life. Yeah.

Gary: And I. [00:06:00] Yeah, I don't know I can be as vindictive and childish as the next person and so it's like all like little things where it's Like I just want to get a bit back. Yeah. So yeah, I think there's that's cool. But yeah. Yeah, pretty cool story. Yeah

Kyle: How was your week?

Gary: It sucked.

Yeah. Yeah, just struggling or just crazy. I was struggling.

Kyle: Okay, we've gone going deeper tonight Very small group. Okay before freedom session. Okay

Gary: You like going deeper nights? No, and I love going deeper I mean, I think,

Kyle: yeah, I mean, I think it depends on the group you're in, the people you're around. I mean, where you're at yourself, like, I don't know, like I've also been working through stuff for almost three years straight now, just four years, four years maybe.

And it's just, it's just exhausting. Just tiring. I just, yeah. And there's a,

Gary: I just think it's really special to get to know people that are really. I

Kyle: think one of my things is that, like, sometimes you feel like you're supposed to [00:07:00] have made way more progress than you have, like, I expect a lot from myself and, um, I think that can get you down, like when you're just like, well, why am I not like, why haven't overcome these things?

Or why are these things, these relationships still hurting? Or like, why, you know, why, why am I so affected by, you know, what happened to me as a kid still or whatever those, whatever it is. Um, and. And, uh, yeah, it just gets you, gets you down, you down days, hard days. I was actually thinking about it last yesterday.

I was golfing in the backyard and I was like, I hope I don't give the impression on the podcast that I always like, I'm happy clappy and have it all together and stuff like that. Because that's definitely not the case. Like there's still lots of just hard life, still life. There's hard days and there's like a lot of stuff going on.

But do think it's

Gary: important to articulate that because, I mean, Marie and I were talking about it the other day too, but you had said, uh. Or I'd said to you last pod, last recording, how somebody challenged me on something and then said, Oh, by the way, you have a podcast. So like, you know, and that's a fair comment.

Like if you're going to have a public platform now, there again, you're still going to really screw up, but you better own it. You [00:08:00] better be not preaching too much from the pedestal. And I don't think I am, but I, I think only your stuff across that way. Right. When you're, when you're pontificating that you can come across as, as, uh, yeah.

And I mean, I'm, I'm with you. I'm, I really make, that's what makes me want to do the polygraph

Kyle: like on the podcast, because then You can, I think just transparency is, is, is, is my kind of barometer or just like, I want to be like real and transparent and I know I'm still going to screw up. I'm not like pretending to be better and stuff like that.

So, because otherwise, yeah, you can, yeah, but one quote though, that helped me this week. I came across yesterday that made me feel a bit better. Uh, so Matt Chandler, um, the mingling of souls, I don't know if that's a sermon or a book, but. I'll read the quote. What made me love Christ wasn't that all of a sudden I started figuring out how to do life.

What made me love Christ is that when I was at my worst, when I absolutely could not clean myself up and there was nothing anyone could do with me, right at that moment, Christ said, [00:09:00] I'll take that one. That's the one I want. And it was just like, okay, yeah, he takes ship eggs. Like I was just feeling super crappy and I was like, no, okay, he counts.

That's who he comes for. And it just, yeah, it lifted me up and ultimately that's the gospel. So. Okay. We still haven't picked out a new book yet. I was thinking about that earlier today. I want to do Gentle and Lowly. Great book. I think it's like, I think knowing who God is, is really, really important. Like his character, because if you have a bad view of him, it's going to be really hard to pray.

It's going to, you don't, you won't want to go to church. You won't want to be a Christian. If you really know who God is, then it makes a big difference. Great book. Yeah. Okay, I'm fine with that. How many chapters does it have? I don't know. I'm sitting over there, but. Okay. We'll start next week. So if you're listening to this.

You've got a couple of weeks. Yeah. Well,

Gary: you won't if you're listening to

Kyle: this, but. First week of February, we'll start. Okay.

Gary: With gentle and lowly.

Kyle: Yep. Okay. Mailbag. I've got two questions.

Gary: Okay. Are these real questions or ones that you made up? That was last week. That's interesting, eh? When you don't have a polygraph, I got to ask [00:10:00] these things.

This is your polygraph. Okay. Um. For

Kyle: context, those of you that don't know. Last week's question, um, was one that I had made up, but I, to be fair, we talked about this in our overtime last week, um, um, was that I got that vibe from quite a few people. And so that's where that question came from. The vibe of like, Hey, you guys have reformed beliefs, but you seem to hate on reformed churches.

Yeah, we don't hate on reformed churches. You had a beautiful answer. Oh, well, I listened to you again, I wanted to record, I wanted to rerecord the whole episode cause I was so choked. The funny it was last week's recording was recorded, what, November? It's something like that. But the funny thing is when you were answering the question, you were like, why isn't Kyle answering?

Yeah. I was

Gary: just like, I kept trying to throw it and I don't normally throw it back to you, but it was a really awkward question. So I didn't want to wear the whole thing. Right. It's like, Oh man, I know I'm going to get eviscerated for this afterwards. I don't think I. Yeah, I think the answer was, I'm sure I've made mistakes, but I think that a lot of it was true.

I would stand behind [00:11:00] it. So these are real mailbag questions. Real mailbag,

Kyle: okay. Not sure who else to ask about this. I might just refuse to answer it to you for the record. Sorry, go ahead. Not sure who else to ask about this, but on the recent service we had communion at church. There was a lesbian couple who went up and participated.

It felled off and How does the church deal with that? So, for context, how Oh, don't

Gary: say too much, man. You be careful what you say.

Kyle: How, uh, at Um, so how, how, how would they have it at this church is that there, um, there's communion, they give a message and say like, who is this for? And then there's people up front with, um, wafers and, um, juice or, or wine, and you can go up and grab it and go back to your seat and wait until everyone has it.

And then, you know, partake together, um, at other churches, like how I grew up was that there's a table up [00:12:00] front. Where everyone goes up and then there's two elders that are watching. And for

Gary: reference, for reference, if you're a non Christian listening to this and you're like, what is this dude talking about?

Yes. This is basically, you know, the Lord's supper. I mean, people call it different things. Um, but basically this is where, you know, people that are professing the name of Jesus and trusting in him for their salvation and come to realize their sin. They now are part of God's family and they're, this is how they're, um, remembering, remembering what Jesus is dying, dying for them.

And so you have a piece of bread and some wine. So it's a, it's a special thing and churches do it at varying intervals. And so anyways, I forgot the question. So if you're living in

Kyle: open sin. Like a lesbian relationship or being drunk all the time, or whatever those things are. Bible says to refrain if you're a Christian until you repent.

And if you're not a Christian, it's not meant for you. I think even says

Gary: if you have a problem with another Christian brother or sister, you should refrain. Refrain, yeah. So there's some.

Kyle: Okay. So at like a church I grew up in, there'd be an elder, two elders at the [00:13:00] front guarding the table or watching the table.

And if someone wasn't a member of the church, they would be told to turn around. Or if they'd be in bad standing, they would be told to like, you can't partake. But at a, how this church does it, where this question came from, there's nobody like guarding it. So how does, I guess the question is like, how does that work?

Um, so I did text pastor Jonathan about this one and ask him the question, because I wanted to get his take on it. But what, what, like, what do you, what do you think about it?

Gary: I think that if that was, um, well, first of all, I'd really, really be careful before you just go assume something right. Um, because somebody could, yeah, I could really go off on a rant about that.

I won't, but I think that the, uh, I think you really want to be careful. Uh, First of all, anybody not going up to the table doesn't need to be too concerned about who's going to the table. They need to be worried about their own soul. Um, so that would be my first thought. Um, cause it's a real weird thing in, in some [00:14:00] church circles to be like concerned about who's going when you, when you're not sure about your own soul.

Um, so that would be my first thought. And then the second thought would be, yeah, you don't know what's going on behind closed doors and people struggle with sin and Christians struggle with sin. Paul talks, Paul, who wrote most of the Bible, New Testament talks, people getting drunk at

Kyle: the Lord's upper door.

Gary: Yeah. And I think that in our church context, we don't really realize what the early church was like, right? Like we were so far from that good and bad. I mean, there's probably pros and cons. It's probably very similar. We just hide it better. No, I just think that there's, we have our idea of how things should look culturally and then we think that's church when like the early church that that's written about in the Bible is, I'm sure it's quite different.

Uh, there were smaller groups of people. I think, you know, there was probably more like house style church. People were hanging out in homes together. Um, and, uh, and obviously, you know, there's way less travel right now. People travel like, like 10, 20, 30, 40 kilometers to go to Churchill because it takes no time.

Then it was, you know, most people probably would have been traveling on foot, right? Um, so yeah, it just would have been a different vibe, right? Um, so I think [00:15:00] back to that question, I think that people really, there again, it's a hard issue, right? And, uh, if you were genuinely concerned, you would, um, the proper way, the Matthew 18 way I think would be to.

Gently, gently, lovingly, if you really cared, lovingly approach the person. And then obviously church leadership, that would be, you could do that in a healthy way. Right. Um, but the thing is the problem with everything like, like a question like that is that often things quickly just turn into like gossip and talking about, and actually nobody cares about the person.

Right. Nobody cares about truth. Nobody cares about the right thing happening. They're, I mean, they maybe care about the right thing happening in the sense of it makes them uncomfortable. Or you can just label

Kyle: a church now and like, Oh, look, look what happened there. Like I said, I don't know the context to the.

Okay. So this is what Pastor Jonathan said. He was the pastor that I, um, from promontory campus. Uh, first I would go talk with the pastor about it. And um, He says, while we don't guard the communion table like that, we do take it seriously. [00:16:00] Part of the reason that we give an explanation of what communion is and who is invited to take it is to make it clear.

For someone who would like to flaunt it, it gives us an opportunity to. Clearly talk to them about it and has even been part of the church discipline in the past while I would argue that the communion isn't desecrated by that action like someone being a lesbian Taking it it is more that they are inviting judgment on themselves Well, the most loving thing is to do is to talk to them and help understand what communion is and what?

It means to take it, I believe communion should be an open for people to come and receive, but to do so with a clear warning that we find in scripture, which they do give at the start. So,

Gary: yeah, I, and there, again, there's verses like, you know, you're eating and I remember this cause it was read a lot when I was a kid, but you know, basically if you partake, you know, if you go do that and you're, you're not, you're not a Christian, you're basically eating and drinking a judgment.

Which I don't think

Kyle: is true. That's not what that verse is for. It's for Christians that are living in sin, taking it. R. C. Sproul explains that as well.

Gary: I'd be curious to hear that, that take. Anyways, [00:17:00] that's not how I was, uh, taught as a kid, but I think it's, I think it's good to have healthy warnings, and I think, there again, when you land on one side of a ditch, you need the warning from the one side, and if you're on the other side of the road, you, you need the, the other warning, and I think that's where, you know, the first thing you need to know is kind of where you fall on the spectrum, and then you need to be willing to be.

Challenged, have your thoughts challenged. And most people just tend to land where they land and be really sure and never allow themselves to, uh, to be questioned or anything. Right. And so then. Yeah, as long as they're not guilty, or even if they are guilty, but that's just, they live in the guilty state and, and that's

Kyle: okay.

Next question, Kale Bag, how do you feel about going to a restaurant on Sunday, shopping on Sunday? If you're okay with golfing, I mentioned that you're a golfer, we are commanded to keep. Sunday holy as a day of rest. My thought is that if we truly obey this command, Sunday will look different than the other six days.

And we wouldn't encourage others to do unnecessary work such as serving food, running golf courses, et cetera, when they should also be having the day of rest. Plus it's good for us to have a quiet, restful day to [00:18:00] start the week. Thoughts?

Gary: Interesting. Good question. What's your answer?

Kyle: Uh, Romans 14 verse 5 says, One person esteems one day as better than the other, while others esteem all days alike.

Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. Um, Pastor Johnson says, While I think the Sabbath is a good pattern for us to hold, it doesn't fall under our command in the same way it did in the Old Testament Israel. There's a longer discussion behind that. That being said, I do think it should look different than the rest of your week, and ignoring that is to our detriment, I would argue how exactly we work.

That how I would argue, how exactly we work that out would fall into the category of conscience. That's like Romans 14, five. We are also not giving specific commands on how to do this, and Jesus goes out of his way to often break the made up. Rules that others have made so I would fall into that category.

I believe the Sunday was made for [00:19:00] man, and not We're not doing it for God. It's for us and I think there's also other days of the week that can be your Sabbath here. Let me I just flipped open

Gary: So for those of you that are watching on YouTube, I just flipped open. This is the ruthless elimination of hurry By John Mark Comer, it'd be a great book, especially for you that hold the Sabbath very tightly, um, which is how we were raised, um, and Marie and I just listened to this book, uh, recently, on a drive, and I just flipped this book open, and, um, Because I was looking for something on the Sabbath in here, because he talks a lot about it.

And he takes the Sabbath serious, um, to a degree that I don't. And I'm not even sure is, is, is, I wouldn't even necessarily agree with. Um, so he talks. I do lockbox my phone almost all days on New Year's Eve. Yeah, so I mean and I heard a sermon recently from a great pastor who I didn't agree with the sermon at all But he as a pastor from [00:20:00] you didn't agree with the

Kyle: term.

I didn't agree

Gary: that at all. He's a great past He's a great pastor, but he preached this on this text. Yeah, and it says but on It was Jesus on the Sabbath. It was a lazy Saturday afternoon, hot with clear skies overhead. Jesus was hiking through a cornfield with his apprentices, like you do. It was the Sabbath, and this was one of many stories about Jesus and the seventh day.

Built into Jesus life rhythm was a core practice, an entire day every week, set aside just to slow down, to stop. So now, remember, this guy who's writing this book, proponent of Sabbath, of rest, right? But on this particular Sabbath, Jesus got into trouble with the Pharisees. They took issue with how Jesus and his friends were celebrating the day.

Royally missing the heart of God behind this practice. It was a loving rebuke. Jesus simply said the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. What a stunning line. Here we are, thousands of years later, reading and re reading it. Yet, sadly, often misreading it. In context, Jesus was beating up on a legalistic, guilt heavy religious culture that [00:21:00] had totally missed the Father's heart behind the command to slow down one day a week.

Translation? A culture that was in this area, the exact opposite of our own first century. Jews needed to hear the second half of that command. The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. They had it backward cart before the horse and all that. Fast forward to the 21st century. We aren't legalistic about the Sabbath and this is where he goes.

It, you know, most of us don't even practice a Sabbath a day off. Sure. Sunday worship when I can, but Sabbath, very few of us know exactly what that means. So, um, This, this be a good book from people, for people on all ends of the spectrum, right, where it's like, um, I think that you, the verse you read is a verse that I often quote because I feel like people, um, there again, it's just, it's, it's box checking and box checking is, is not love of God.

Box checking is just finding comfort in rules and regulations and, um, uh, any action that does come should come from, from a love for the, from a love for the Lord. And it's [00:22:00] like, should we want to have, should we want to have our day crammed full of anything on our Sabbath? No, we shouldn't. Right. And I mean, that, that could be like, there's people that

Kyle: like, we'll keep the Sabbath hope Holy, whatever, not working on stuff like that, but they're not even Christian.

So they're not saved. Yeah. But what makes it Holy? Well, not only that, but like, if you're not saved, then it doesn't matter what you're doing. It's not done in faith. It doesn't matter. Like it's still God's, God's not impressed. No,

Gary: no, you're

Kyle: not,

Gary: you're not, it's not a checkmark system. We're not Catholic.

Right. So it's like, there's no, there's no, there's no, no, that's a good, we won't go there, but it's just kind of like, it's, it's not a checkmark system. Right. And it's not like I say, I, there's no, your good deeds are filthy rags. There's a verse like, I wish I knew the verse, but

Kyle: which is, uh, you know what a filthy rag is.

Gary: No, no, don't say, um, I got an inkling where I was going with that was just, there's, there's no amount of good deeds and one day a week doing all the right things. That's going to earn you any points anywhere. And it's, [00:23:00] it's, but having said all that, Sabbath is healthy and we're called to Sabbath and what does that look like in our life?

Right. And I mean, for a pastor. My dad took Mondays. Yeah. Well, he's got to take a different day. And it's not Sunday. It's not the day, the one day that you think like it's another day where he shouldn't be running around town doing all his errands because that's his free day. No, that's his Sabbath day.

And I think in our culture, when you're Dutch, I mean, it's literally the only reason that people don't work. You know, and it's fascinating because it is, it is healthy to,

Kyle: what I find is interesting, like is, uh, in our culture where there's a lot of like working too much and stuff like that and, and neglecting the family because of it, um, that, you know, like, oh, it's too busy, work's too busy, stuff like that, I don't have time, but then Sunday comes along and all of a sudden they, Like, know how to like not work at all, like, it just like everything is shut down for sure.

It's impressive. And, and so it's funny cause it's like shows that you can actually do it if you want to, if you really believe it enough.

Gary: Yeah. But when you're Dutch and you have [00:24:00] to shut down for 24 hours, those other six days need to be really productive. I'm telling you. But your actions, your actions show what you believe.

Yeah, there again, it's, it's so complicated. There's people that need to work way more and there's people that need to work way less, and there's people that need to know how to be less religious about the Sabbath. And there's people that probably really need to be convicted to just, and for us and our family, like Marie and I, it's, it's about, I mean, first of all, I don't.

I don't like being intentionally contentious, um, to, to be disrespectful to people that, that, that hold it in a certain light. But for us, our challenge is just not having it be a crazy busy day, even with good things or even, you know, I think just family stuff or even just, I think it's a beautiful way to host people too.

Yeah. And we do that, but it's like, I just think it is, it's Sabbath means, I think it means rest. Yeah. And I think that that's the point of the word. And so I think even with church staff, it's like, you go to church twice, you have some sing singing thing. And now like, that's a pretty busy day with [00:25:00] when you have a bunch of little kids.

Right. And so wisdom would tell you that there needs to be boundaries around those things. Right. And what does that look like? And anyways, we're going to get a real rabbit trail here.

Kyle: And like the Bible doesn't give us. A list of like, what's allowed, what's

Gary: not allowed. The other thing, I'd have the question, I guess, for the person that asked the question.

It's a good question. I've thought of those things about making other people work, but like, like, like they're not, not working. Cause you don't, like, these are non Christian people. They don't read the Bible. Like the chance of them becoming a Christian are more likely if you went and like, and there again, I'm not.

If, if, if that's against your conscience, then it would be wrong for you to go do it. So I'm not saying that you would go out to eat. I'm just saying if you went out to eat and you bless someone well and you tip them well and you, you know, share the gospel with them. So

Kyle: while you go out to eat on

Gary: Sunday like that?

We don't hardly ever do it, but why it's. I wouldn't say I wouldn't feel guilty about doing it. No, no. Whereas when I grew up, it was the Cardinals. It was the Cardinals.

Kyle: It's funny when I started like once in all the groceries on Sunday and then you run into someone that still has the background of like you're not supposed to be out on Sunday and then you see each other in the grocery store [00:26:00] and they're just like, you look at them and they're also like, look away really fast and

Gary: also they realize that you're there too.

So they're not sure anymore. I mean, I'd be in a unique situation where the pendulum swung really far one way and now I would. I would feel more Marie and I, and thankfully we're totally on the same page, but we feel there again, we just feel convicted about what, what it looks like. Right. And I feel like it's a, I think that there's a lot of things that we used to do on Sunday that we wouldn't do now.

'cause it's just been a journey of, hey, that's just not a great, great way to spend the Lord's day. Right? And, uh, but anyways, do you know why, why we do church on, I should know this, but why do we, why is church? Why do Christians. Do the Sabbath on the first day of the week instead of the last, why aren't we all seven day in Mantis?

Because Jesus rose. On Sunday? Yeah. So that's when it switched? Yeah. Does it say it right in the Bible to switch it to that day? No. Who did that? Just the early church switched at some point? Good question, don't know. Okay.

Kyle: Anyways. Well, it's also funny to me like, like these religious questions that come up because I I'm just a regular dude, you know, and like, I [00:27:00] mean, dad was a pastor and I know some theology or whatever beliefs, but a lot of this stuff is like, I feel goes above my pay grade.

Gary: I just feel like it's a conscience thing and if you're doing it because it's bringing you comfort following a rule, you're in deep trouble. And I know for me, that's how I'm wired. I'm wired. It's like, how can I accomplish the goal and check the box? That's not a relationship with God. That's just, that's religion.

That's box checking and that's dangerous. You're in danger. So

Kyle: I was actually talking to someone about the other day about when you, how you talk about how you evangelize about Jesus. And it's like, if I tell someone, if I'm trying to convince someone that, um, to love Nicole. I don't say I hold the door open for her and I like, you know, help clean the house or like help the kids.

Like, I don't give her a big list of things I do. I say, Nicole makes me so happy. I love being around her. Like I love spending time with her and stuff like that. It's the affections part, right? That's what, that's what makes, that makes me like, Oh, I want to meet Nicole. It's not the stuff you're doing. And I think that's also true with, uh, Christianity.

It's just like, what's going to make Christ [00:28:00] attractive to other people? It's not like them seeing all the things that you're doing for him. It's like, no, like I genuinely have joy about the fact that he saved me. And I think being with him forever, it's the, it's the, it's the real, the real relationship.

Gary: That's the thing from where I come from in my brain, like as a Dutch person, I just always thought. Like growing up that there would just be, you know, you just have to do more. I just thought, and like, how would God love you? Like, you know, and that's why I struggled so much with assurance and so much with grace.

Cause it's like. It doesn't make any sense. Right? Like it doesn't the fact. And that's just not upside down. Well, it's upside down kingdom. There's nothing that you can do that. God will love you more or less. Right? Like there's not, there's not some scale where, and I still feel like, and I think you use the term before too, like serving time in the penalty box when you commit some sin, like, yeah, there's repentance that needs to happen.

But the bizarre thing is, is that you're fully forgiven. And that's a concept that in his humans, we just don't, we, we, We live the exact opposite. We're always keeping score in relationship and especially when

Kyle: we don't have, like, if you don't have a [00:29:00] dad that modeled who Christ was, but like was very super authoritative or like super shut down or like spent no time.

A lot of

Gary: your,

Kyle: a lot of your perception of who God is, is how you relate to your own figures. It does to

Gary: some degree. Yeah. And then,

Kyle: you know, then you're going to view God as a guy with a check box or checklist, or like if you have really authoritative better, you'll get pastors, you know, our elders are going to view them as that.

Like it's. Um, that's why I want to read that book, Gentle and Lowly, because I think it's so important to know who God is. It's a good book. Cool.

Gary: Anything else you want to add before we're going over time? Well, I feel like we're way, because now our timings, because we do have a big gap coming up where things aren't, so we did prerecord a few.

So some of our information could be really old news. But, um, I was curious to know what your thoughts was on, uh, the fires in LA. Do you follow that

Kyle: at all? Yeah, I actually have a girl, a lady that I did a coaching course with last year or, and. She sent me a picture this morning of across the road from her house.

I was, I was actually video calling with her yesterday and she showed me that it was really [00:30:00] windy outside and showed me like the houses across the street. This morning sent me a picture of the house across the street, burnt down. Not there, not there. And her house was not burnt. Her house was not burnt.

She did have to evacuate. And I was like, Whoa, like then it hits a little bit closer, right? When you actually have something that's touched by it. So, uh, what do I think about it? I think it's very sad. I think it's awful. I, I, I, I feel for all those people. Um, Do you know why they don't pull water out of the ocean to fight fires?

I don't know. I, I have base, I don't read the news barely anymore. So, like, I don't know, what do you think about it? I,

Gary: I don't have strong thoughts. I mean, I can't trust the news I read because I read everything on Twitter. I read everything on Twitter, right? And it's all filtered through Elon Musk and he's way out and No,

Kyle: it's actually, they've done studies on it.

It's one of the most, um, like balanced platforms out there, Twitter. Well, cause both people are completely unfiltered, right? Exactly. Yeah. But, um, I've seen the video aerial views of this, like this fire and it's, it's nuts. Like there's huge areas of LA burned down. It's horrible. 50 billion worth of homes or something

Gary: crazy.[00:31:00]

Okay. Interesting. Yeah. It's just crazy to have a resident. You just don't see that that often that huge, huge residential areas burn up. So pretty tragic.

Kyle: Okay guys, thanks for listening. Send in your questions, feedback, comments, like comment, subscribe, subscribe to overtime. Push back, push back,

Gary: push

Kyle: back.

Gary: I love the, uh, I love the top, uh, it's interesting.

Push back on what? On what we

Kyle: say, right? Oh yeah. Do push back. Yeah. Send, we'll talk about anything. If you, you might find a limit for that. For me, for sure. I go into the overtime. Okay. See you guys.

‍

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