January 15, 2022

Conservative politician kicked out of from his own political party in Canada - Season 2 Episode 9 with Laurie Throness

Kyle: [00:00:00] Yeah, so I, I just have a, I have a real, uh, I'm generally a curious person, so I like to hear stories and backgrounds and why people believe things and how things happen and stuff like that. So last year I just started a podcast for fun. Interviewed six people. Now I'm doing season two interviewing six smart people.

Laurie: And does it get good play or,

Kyle: uh, it gets about, I think, uh, 1000 to 3000. That's good. Downloads. Yeah.

Laurie: I'm doing podcasts at Chilla by Alliance Church right now. Oh, okay. Just on Christian themes and uh, yeah. I think it might get, you know, 25. 25 or so. Yeah. I don, I mean,

Kyle: I would love to do this full time one day, but the likelihood of that is super low.

Mm-hmm. Um, so for me it's more, it's a, it's a hobby.

Laurie: Yeah.

Kyle: It's an expensive hobby. Is it not in a while because you pay for it. Not as expensive up as these cameras here because you pay for it. I pay for it, yes. Yeah. Yeah. So put this stuff there. Yeah. So episode one I recorded, um, who do I have an episode, episode one of this season.[00:01:00]

I completely slipped my mind. Who, who did I record on the first one there? Tim? Oh yeah. David Booth. Oh, okay. He used to play for the Vancouver Canucks. Okay. And he's a Christian, so I interviewed his story. Cool. Yeah. And I had Eric Trump on last time, um, of the Yeah. Of Trump fame. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah.

So you're following.

Laurie: That'll be a great let down for your listeners.

Kyle: And then I have beneath the riser, she writes a lot for the website, desire and God. Um, me McConnell.

Laurie: Yeah. Right. Thanks. Good. And then as far as mic, you're really good there. Perfect. I'm gonna pull this on in for you, Laurie. Okay. Both there.

Alright. Can I riffle through my papers here still? Yeah. And go nuts. And maybe I'll turn down my phone here. It doesn't ring now that it rings a lot these days. Uh, so where do you live?

Kyle: I live on Press Road.

Laurie: [00:02:00] Okay. Yeah. You have a chicken farmer on the

Kyle: side or something like that? I'm working on it. Aren't you all?

I actually just got my P for 400 chickens and I planned to off on Side Road. Okay. That's funny you say that. I

Laurie: could have guessed. I could have guessed. Well, you know, uncle of Brian bis, I mean, what, you know it's in your

Kyle: jeans, right? Well, yeah, I guess you could say that a little bit, but I mean, it's just, it's good income.

So if you Yeah, you gotta figure something to pay the mortgage. Yes. Mine is crazy. Although Brian has a farm in Saskatchewan. That's right. Yeah.

Laurie: And more and more people are doing that 'cause it's so much cheaper there. Yeah,

Kyle: of course. Yeah. So I don't need quota. Right. For 400 less. Oh, is that right? Okay.

That, that's why I just have a small flock just for the side of the road. But I live on press road, so everyone's flying up.

Laurie: Yes.

Kyle: The mountain. So I can hopefully, but it's gonna be a while to get it all set up. I have, I want to build a little barn in the back and

Laurie: Well, and to get a pullout where people can safely That's

Kyle: right.

Laurie: Get in and out of the road there, because that really is a busy That's right. Yeah. It's super busy. They're gonna be more busy in the future. Yeah. Have they finished the roundabout there at Yeah. [00:03:00] Are they making a roundabout at McGuire?

Kyle: I thought they were, but it doesn't look like they are. And if they are, they, maybe they do it when they do the next piece wide in the next piece.

'cause they, they, it's, it goes skinny again, right. For a little piece there. Okay. Before it gets a promontory. So. Okay. I'm assuming though. I'm hoping. I'm hoping so.

Laurie: Wow.

Kyle: Yeah. So I mean, last year of course I asked you to come on for, for the podcast and then that didn't work out. So, um, are we recording now?

Uh, we are recording now, but this won't get published. Okay. I, I, I use this little, uh, preamble for, um, my Patreon. Okay. Subscribers. Okay. And so they just get a little inside, but I have zero Patreon subscribers at the moment, so I wouldn't worry too much. You don't have to worry about that. I wouldn't have to worry too much about it.

Uh, yeah. So the kinda the goal today is I, I was gonna, um. Learn about your, how you got, how you like, kinda a little bit brief life story, how you got into politics. Sure. Your time in politics, how you got outta politics, and then, uh, um, where you think can Canada's headed regarding the photo scene. So, um,

Laurie: this is more a future [00:04:00] oriented thing.

Rather than past.

Kyle: It's, it's learning about the past, uh, where I think that'll be probably the majority because there, there's a lot of things that happen in your career mm-hmm. That caused, uh, you being, um, kicked outta the caucus there. Um, but um, I think also it really interesting on your views going forward, you know, like especially with like Bill CC four and um, that, that kind of stuff.

Laurie: Bill C 64 was the, uh, conversion therapy bill.

Kyle: C four. Yeah. Yeah.

Laurie: C four. I thought it was C 44.

Kyle: I think it might've been last. Last time around.

Laurie: Okay. So I didn't see that. I thought I, it, it passed,

Kyle: it passed the Senate today.

Laurie: Oh, it did? Eh, yeah. Wow. So, you know, I'm not, and I never was a proponent of conversion therapy.

Yeah. But I'm a proponent of conversion that allowing people to be persuaded of a different view. Yeah, that's right. And, and I fear for what that means for especially. Religion, when you think of conversion, you usually think of faith.

Kyle: Yeah, that's right.

Laurie: And you [00:05:00] know, will a pastor preaching from the pulpit be considered?

And will that be considered a conversion therapy? It's a practice or, uh, you know, a service.

Kyle: Yeah.

Laurie: Um,

Kyle: yeah. We'll, we'll, we'll, we'll find out. Matters of definition, right? Yeah, that's right. We'll find out soon. Yeah. Um, just lemme know when you're ready to go, Tim. We're good to go. Okay. Okay.

I always get nervous for these things. I don't know why, but

Laurie: Me too. Kyle, will you be doing an

Kyle: intro? Should I be on you? Uh, I'll start with like a little bit, but I did the intro already, so I think we should be fine. So, okay, Lori, thank you for doing this. I, I appreciate it. I know we wanted to do it last year, but, uh, things didn't happen.

So, um, I would love to know, uh, I guess starting off with your story, um, how you got into tics, so maybe your earlier career, uh, and how that gradually led into, uh,

Laurie: politics. Sure. I was trying to. Decide whether to go into the ministry or into [00:06:00] politics. And in 1981 I was in a meeting in a bible college where I was attending and just about graduating, and I felt impressed.

Um, I'm not sure, maybe divine. Uh, inspiration or whatever. I'm not sure, but I felt impressed that I should go into politics because I wanted to have an impact greater than just on a congregation. I wanted to have an impact on millions of people for good. Okay? And so that's why I got into politics. My family moved here.

My father was the pastor of Chillo, Aline Church, and, uh, the MLA came from his church. Harvey Schrader, who's still going strong today, by the way. Um, and so I asked if I could work for him, and I got a job with him being his assistant. What does he do now? And he is retired. Okay. He's like, you know, almost 90 years old.

Okay. But he's going strong and doing well. He retired in 1986 because he thought he was gonna have a heart attack and die. Okay. And he outlived his doctor by a number of years. Nice. But, uh, but so I worked for him, I worked for Grace McCarthy after that, when he retired in, uh, in, uh, Victoria. [00:07:00] Yeah. Then I went to school and.

And tried to qualify myself for, uh, for public service because I wanted to be elected. I ran for nomination in 86 and lost to John Janssen, who became, uh, the Minister of Health and the Minister of Finance in the, in the Vander Zam government. And he was a very popular mayor. Uh, and so he was, uh, obvious, the obvious shoe and for the job.

I ran for school board after working for bureaucracy in Vancouver, both provincial and federal for a few years and lost that. And the day after I lost that election, I was the only nonpartisan association candidate to lose in that election and the day after. Chuck Straw, who is an old family friend, invited me to come over for dinner to his place and he asked me to work for him in Ottawa because he was a newly minted reform mp.

So I worked for him for a few years, uh, worked as a researcher for the leader of the official opposition, a social policy researcher until 2002. And I felt bored. So then I went. Uh, and did a PhD in history in Cambridge and wrote a [00:08:00] book about the history of our prison system. It was about the theological origins of our prison system, which are deep and marvelous.

Interesting. And, uh, yeah, you can, people can buy that book today. They can, they can. I just, it's called a Protestant purgatory. They can google my name. Okay. And find it, and they can download it online. It's, uh. Uh, it's done by Ash Gate, which is a good historical publisher in the uk. Yeah. And uh, and that was a real joy of my life to be able to publish that book in 2008.

So I had just submitted my thesis and Chuck was made a minister. So he called me in the UK and asked me to be his chief of staff. I said, okay. A week later I was in. In the ninth floor of the Carling Building, which is the main agriculture building 'cause you use agriculture mini ministry in Ottawa in the middle of winter.

It was an amazing transition. Nice. A sudden transition. Had to find 25 staff. Uh, and worked thereafter until 2011 for three in three different departments as Chief of Staff and also for the Minister of Health for a while as an advisor. And, uh. And then in [00:09:00] 2011, Chuck resigned. And so my job disappeared. So I decided am I a westerner or I'm am I an easterner?

And so I came back out west because my family is out here and I really have roots in the west. I was born in Alberta and so on. So, um. So then I didn't know what to do. I was, uh, able to, uh, run for the BC liberal party in 2012. It was a by-election, and Christie was not very popular.

Kyle: Yeah.

Laurie: And, uh, so I lost by elections usually.

I I remember that actually.

Kyle: Yes. You were at, uh, my uncle's house, Ken and Buck.

Laurie: Oh,

Kyle: really? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You remember asking Christy there. Yes, abortion actually. Yes. And I was like, I don't know. I was in high school. Yes. Everyone was kind of like, why is this little young punk asking about these social issues?

Well,

Laurie: you know, and you know, we talked in the van about that afterward and, and I said, you know that in that household, that's probably not the most politic thing to say. And she said, well, I'm just being honest. You know? Yeah. That's just really what I think. And actually they received it quite well. Yeah. I was surprised.

Uh, I lost that. I hung on and a year later won in [00:10:00] 2013. In 2017 again. And then in 2020, I lost one 13 months ago. Today I conceded.

Kyle: Wow. Crazy. And so, uh, you said, uh, a couple minutes ago you wanted to affect millions of people. Like that's, that's quite a statement. Like what, where did that come from?

Laurie: You know, as a young person, I wanted to change the world.

I had high ambitions, you know, I wanted to be prime minister and all of that. And, uh, and that. You know, it can only work out for one person out of 30 million. Yeah. So, uh, still aspiration, you know, I, I'm a little older now and perhaps a little wiser and, uh, maybe I can change somebody's life near me. Yeah.

Yeah. And I'm not sure that I'm gonna change the world anymore. Fair, fair enough.

Kyle: Fair enough. So you, you, uh, in 2020, you lost, um. And yeah, I think the local and the P person won. And just to clarify for the listeners here, the BC liberal party is, um, would be considered also the conservative party in the province of BC in many respects, right?

Like we have a conservative party now, [00:11:00] but most conservatives ran underneath the BC liberal. It's kinda weird. I was confusing. Yeah. We call it

Laurie: a coalition. Okay. And it always has been under social credit. It was a coalition as well. Okay. And so it's a coalition today of. Of federal conservatives and federal liberals who have to band together in order to beat the ndp.

Fair enough. But, uh, that coalition, um, you know, is, is breaking in my view, die. Yeah. Yeah. So, and, and same federally. Same federally, exactly, exactly the same thing. Federally is happening here and almost happened in Ontario as well.

Kyle: Yeah. Yeah. We'll talk about that more in a bit. So in, in 2020 you, you lost, but you, um.

You didn't just lose, you also, uh, the leader of the BC liberals, uh, removed you from the caucus, so that removed you from the party. So, yes. Uh, but a lot led up to that. So, yeah. Um, I mean, walk, walk me through that timeline. How, how did that came to be? Because it started, what, almost two or three years earlier?

Yeah.

Laurie: Well, it really started in June of that year of 2020, uh, when, [00:12:00] um, when, um, NDP funded think Tank called the, the Ed Broadband Institute put out a press release saying that an ad that a number of MLAs had put in a Christian magazine called the Light was homophobic and transphobic and so on. And uh, and.

That set the cat among the pigeons as the media took up the cry and took what? What and what did the ad say? Uh, the ad was just congratulating people at Easter. It's just saying to Christians, uh, have a happy Easter where MLAs, every MLA gets an advertising budget. So often MLAs a dozen at a time will pay $80 each and put an ad in the paper.

Okay. Um, because they think their voters will read it and all MLAs do that.

Kyle: And the light. Is, uh, what was their issue with that magazine?

Laurie: It's, it's a mainstream Christian magazine. Uh, it is, um, a lot of nice people writing lovely Christian stuff. There was an editorial that expressed concern about conversion therapy, saying that ministers and other professionals [00:13:00] could be.

Dragged into, it wasn't in support of conversion therapy, but it said, people who are giving well-meaning advice to children could be dragged in as criminals. And it expressed concern about that, and the press progressed, took that to mean that it was transphobic, and I think it was highly unfortunate. Uh, so as soon as that happened, um, uh, my leader Andrew Wilkinson put out a tweet.

Apologizing and saying that we were gonna review, uh, what the, uh, the, the things that we would advertise in suggesting that we wouldn't advertise in the light anymore. Um, there was a policy, I don't know if there still is, but in the BC liberal caucus that you can say what you like as long as you tell caucus ahead of time what you want to say and.

That was not followed in this case. And so when Andrew went out, uh, it was, uh, it was a bit of a shock, although they phoned me just ahead of time to say, Andrew's going out. This is what he's gonna say. But, you know, there was no discussion. It was just that was what was gonna happen. And so [00:14:00] my colleagues taking their cue from that, uh, started to tweet out saying that they were sorry too.

And they didn't ask about my opinion on that or how that might impact me. Uh, to me that was. Uh, devastating on a principled basis in that Christians have, uh, their ethic that 2 billion people around the world have followed now for 2000 years. And that is a fairly narrow ethic. It confirms and affirms, uh, heterosexual relationships, uh, within the marriage context.

And, um, and I'm not ashamed of that. I'm a follower of Jesus and. I don't condemn people who believe differently, but I wanna believe what I believe. And so when others started to go out on their own publicly, uh, speaking against what I felt was the Christian ethic that I felt, I'm gonna go out and say something to.

And so a lady, uh, people had been calling me saying, do you wanna comment on this? Because they knew [00:15:00] I might have views. And I said, no, no, no comment. But finally I decided, okay, I'm gonna take an interview. And so I did, uh, by a lady named Jen Saint. Uh, from CTV and I didn't know her. I did her name. There's no

Kyle: reason in particular you picked her.

She was just the next one. She was the

Laurie: next on the list. And so I said, okay, I'm gonna do it. And I did it. And then I told our communications person after that I had done it, and he said, uh, this was Jen St. Denise last day at CTV. She's going over to the TA today and the Tai is the far left newspaper in Vancouver.

I had no idea. So it was. You know, it was an unfortunate choice. Yeah. On my part. And she, um, I felt, um, really, um, I don't like to say twisted. She used my word selectively and it made me look extremely bad. And that began a chorus of denunciation on Twitter. And so how opposition, how did she, how did she

Kyle: make you look bad?

What did she say?

Laurie: Uh, she just left out, uh, you know, I. I went through talking points that were, uh, quite [00:16:00] comprehensive, saying that the Christian loves everybody and the, the second greatest commandment for the Christian is to love your neighbor as much as yourself so we don't condemn anybody. Yeah. Uh, but she didn't focus on that and I said, you know, um.

Uh, Spencer Chandra Herbert, who is, uh, a gay mp or a gay MLA, who's, uh, who's married, uh, wanted me to resign. I did a press conference and a two page letter and, and everything, and I said, you know, I've, he feels hurt. I feel a bit hurt too. I. You know, I have my beliefs, but my beliefs are followed by 2 billion people around the world.

Like Christianity is a mainstream thing. Yeah. Can't we just get along? Can't we agree to care for each other? And so we have differences. We lay them aside. We're British Colombians, we believe in the rule of law and democracy, and you know, help for the poor and a whole lot of other stuff. Why can't we stop condemning each other?

We live in a culture of condemnation. Of course, that never came through. So it was just that, you know, that I would defy. Uh, [00:17:00] my leader by advertising in the light was basically the gist of, of what came out and, uh, and so that, uh, did not sit well. Uh, the, the crux of the matter though, came during the campaign when, um,

Kyle: so after that interview came out, did like, did your, did Andrew call you and say, Hey, hello Lori?

Uh, what's going on? That was on a Friday.

Laurie: Okay. That was on a Friday. This story came out on the weekend and on on Monday. You know, Andrew and I had a good relationship. I really like Andrew and I loved all of my caucus. Like they are good people. Yeah. All of them. Yeah. Uh, I never had a crossword with any of them, so Andrew and I had a good relationship.

On Monday, he called me in and said, well, Lori, you know, you know why we're talking, you know, this is a difficult thing. And we had a talk about it and I said, please don't condemn Christianity. And he got that message. And, uh, and. He didn't, he didn't condemn it, but neither did he defend me or it. Yeah. And there was a press conference in which [00:18:00] he and Jackie Tagard, our caucus chair, uh, were asked, do you support the candidacy of Lori Thrones?

And he didn't answer. And I felt, you know, coming from the leader, that's kind of the kiss of death. So he didn't condemn me. He didn't support me.

Kyle: And you think that was a strategic decision on his part? That he thought he was gonna get more votes that way and or do you think that was an actual belief he held himself?

Laurie: Uh. Uh, he always said that he had, that he has a gay son and he, and that influenced his thoughts a lot. So I think he disagreed with me on a principled basis, but he understood where I came from and he. Appreciated me for who I was. And so he always made room for me and I appreciated that. And I always said that there are many people in BC who believe as I do, there are hundreds of thousands of people who believe as I do, and not just

Kyle: of the Christian faith, but also the Muslim and

Laurie: Muslim, Sikh, conservative, Sikhs and simple social [00:19:00] conservatives.

Yeah. And. And I said, we ha our party has to be open to every British Colombian. Every British Colombian has to see themselves reflected in our party. And so I'm fulfilling an important function in the party by standing up for those hundreds of thousands of people. Uh, they can see me in their party and think, okay, you know, I, I have a voice Yeah.

In that party. And, uh, and.

Kyle: So, but, but you would say, like, let's say, um, it came up in, in the, in the local provincial legislature or federally Arkansas or, um, provincially. If, if you were, and a vote came up, if we're gonna define marriage, you would define it as the Bible defines it unapologetically. I I

Laurie: would've, but it, it's a federal issue and so it never came up.

Okay. And I wouldn't talk about it because it's a. There, there are plenty of provincial issues to talk about. Yeah. On the, on those social, those

Kyle: social issues. And, and I'm curious, my brother asked me this the other day. Um, do you think that. Um, the marriage institution should be something that the government [00:20:00] controls because from Bible's view, it was only something that the local priest or ordained, but it was never a government's function.

Laurie: Well, the local priest at that time though was government. There was very little government. I do think the government has to have a hand in marriage. I would've preferred, and I do think that there needs to be a. Uh, a law, a lawful regime that divides pensions and you know that that makes order. I'm a peace order and good government guy.

We have to apply order to the kind of lifestyle that people choose. I would've preferred that it would've been called a civil union, because I think marriage is a biological institution where you marry two bodies and out of that comes a third body and, uh. And that's, you know, like you marry two wines, you marry two ropes, you marry two companies.

Yeah. And, uh, so at the root marriage is not a government institution, it is a biological institution. And so I've felt that marriage should be reserved for that. And that, by the way, was a position of the Conservative Party of Canada, the governing party for five or six or eight [00:21:00] years or however long it governed.

Yeah. So it is not an, it's not an. A

Kyle: new thing, an

Laurie: alternative position. It is, it is a mainstream view.

Kyle: Yeah. Okay. So you, you felt like you get the kiss of death from your leader, um, and, but you basically, everything settles down and, and you move on.

Laurie: Yeah. But you know, the,

Kyle: and you didn't apologize and some MLAs and some of your colleagues did for publishing in that magazine or, right.

And I did not. I said that I would

Laurie: actually, uh, advertise in it again. Okay. And so there was no. You know, there's a continuing t Twitter bombardment and uh, and, uh, the media was unhappy and

Kyle: so it came time for the election. And, and so as this, uh, this bombardment was happening, how, how did you handle it on a personal level?

Like was it affecting, uh, your, a good night's rest? Like how, how, oh

Laurie: yeah. I lost a lot of sleep over it. It is brutal. It is, you know, uh, when you are the brunt of, uh, of condemnation on the level that I was, [00:22:00] um, people say all sorts of things from, you know, barbarian to murderer to. They'll say anything. And I really tried not to respond in kind to that.

I tried to respond if I responded in some, and I didn't delete people, I didn't, uh, I, I didn't block people on, block people 'cause I felt the free speech is important. Uh, and I tried where I responded to respond in a loving way and in a rational way with an, an argument. Yeah. Uh, and, uh, but still it affects you and it affects you deeply and, you know, uh.

People started to ask Andrew, how can you have this bigoted person in your caucus? And you, I was watching CTV and a lady was asking Andrew that, and you know, just having that said on a provincial level about you is devastating. Uh, I just couldn't believe what I was hearing. And so Andrew was really under fire and the climax came of course at an all candidates meeting here in Chillowak.

Kyle: So as this was happening, uh, and [00:23:00] obviously it's very hard for you, did it, um. Make, push you into, um, uh, your faith deeper. Did it, did it make you angry at God saying like, why are you, I'm standing up for you. Why are you, um, why are you making this happen? Like, how did you, on a faith, on a more personal faith level, how were you processing it?

You

Laurie: know, I, I, I felt secure, okay. And I feel my beliefs are my beliefs and I've never wavered on that, and I never will. And, uh, and I've held that for seven years and I've been under fire from time to time about it. And so I was, I was fine with that. And I knew that as our culture moves away from our, our traditions, uh, which is sort of a small sea Christian tradition, that, uh, my culture would confront.

Me more and more. And so I fully expected that. I kind of expected though, that I could get one more term.

Kyle: Okay. And

Laurie: I sensed so

Kyle: you've seen it come

Laurie: I, I saw that there was a change in my writing coming, for instance, from, uh, 2017 to 2020 5,000 new people moved into my [00:24:00] writing, and that is. All from Vancouver, from Langley, from which are more liberal areas than Chillowak.

So Chillowak has been a conservative bastion in the past. I don't think it is any longer. The character of the writing was fundamentally different. Okay. And I could sense that I could feel it. Yeah. But I thought that perhaps I could still get one more term.

Kyle: Interesting. And what were your, uh, like Chuck Straw, obviously a Wellknown politician here locally.

Were, was he reaching out, were you reaching out to him for advice during this time? Like what were your, in the, in the private meetings, what was the advice that you were being given? Uh, you were saying, I'm holding firm. These are my beliefs, but were they giving you advice? Did you say or do certain things or,

Laurie: you know, I, I think, uh, people wanted me to be as quiet as possible.

Okay. And, and get my head down and. And be on the doorstep and, you know, not, not be in the public eye. And so I could have chosen not to attend all candidates meetings and then I wouldn't have said anything wrong. Yeah. Uh, but I always risked it. I always, in past elections, went to every, all [00:25:00] candidates meeting I could because I wanna be open, I want to, you know, I want people to know who I am.

Yeah. And, uh, and. They're welcome to vote for me or not vote for me. Yeah. And so I took that risk.

Kyle: Fair enough. So, okay, so 2020 election comes around provincial election. Yeah. And you have an all candidates meeting. Mm-hmm. Um, and uh,

Laurie: it was a Zoom meeting. A

Kyle: Zoom meeting. Okay. The first

Laurie: one was here.

Kyle: Okay.

Laurie: Uh, and, uh, at Cowork.

And the next one was on Zoom. It was a rotary meeting. Before the meeting, uh, the communications, uh, head from caucus called me and said, Lori, the media are after you. They're out to get you, just so you know that. So be very careful in what you say. I said, okay. Yeah. Famous lost words. Yeah. And, uh, and the all candidates meeting went well.

Um, the, uh, the final question came up and it was sort of a throwaway question, and it was, uh, how do you, how do you feel about the reproductive or about the con free contraception for low [00:26:00] income women? And, uh, and I gave an answer. I said, uh, everybody gave their answer. They were all on. All in favor of it, and I said I have no problem with, uh, contraception ethically.

And it's just not a priority for us because there are just so many other health needs. And then I had to add something because I had been visited by Access BC uh, sometime earlier. Um, and um, they were advocating for free contraception and they gave to me a research paper and that research paper, um, it's really an advocacy piece.

It's not really a research paper, but it gave us its first reason for contraception that it would save the government money because the. The, the children, the difficult children that would come from those low income women would cost the state a lot. And you would save that. And the yield. And the yield would be greater, the greater the problem children they had.

And I thought, you know what that sounds like to me that sounds like poor women should not have children. [00:27:00] And that really went against me. And I wasn't prepared for the question. We had no talking points from head office about it and. I just said what I really thought and, you know, and I, and I, which was, which was that this has a whiff of eugenics to it.

The idea that that poor women should not have children. That was the whole eugenics movement in the early part of last century. And it was a leftist thing. And, um, and I said it's just, it just smacks to me a bit of that. Yeah. And, uh. And as soon as I said those words, I knew I had made a big mistake.

Kyle: You knew instantly.

Laurie: And the zoom clicked off and I just laid my head down on the desk and moaned. 'cause I thought I'm done. Unless, you know,

Kyle: but it's, but, but, but it's not something that. Your statement is something you'll, you would say again, you still believe that

Laurie: it doesn't matter if it's true in politics, it matters. Is this the time?

Is this the place? Is this the way to say it? Okay. And as a professional, [00:28:00] I'd been a politician for seven years and worked for politicians for nine to 20 years. I should have known better than to say it at that time. In that way, in that place.

Kyle: So how should you have said it or when should you have said it?

Laurie: I should not have said it at all. Okay. But just found a different way, maybe a speech in the house or something, and to frame it and to think carefully about it before I would frame it and, you know, but I, I, I. It popped out. And you know, when you look at an election nationally or provincially, there's always a candidate kicked out for some reason, for saying something stupid.

Uh, and I was the one, uh, politicians say stupid things sometimes, and I said an ill timed remark that whether it's true or not really doesn't matter.

Kyle: That it's really reflective of the culture though that we live in. Yes. That, that a statement like that, which used to be a very liberal

Laurie: Yes.

Kyle: Thing. Any,

Laurie: any smaller liberal should agree with that.

Kyle: Yeah. That, that this is. Because I, I mean, I don't know a lot about the issue and stuff like that, but it sounds like it's exactly what it is. I mean, that you're, um, it's, it's in a way, I [00:29:00] don't know if I think about it that way, but it's the government's way of getting rid of all these tax dollars feedback, future costs,

Laurie: future costs, and you know, they would say, no, we just wanna expand choices for, for lower income women.

And that was their line. And how can I. How can I fight against that, you know, motivation. So anyway, um, I thought that maybe the, since Kelly Patton, uh, the current MLA was a brand new candidate that she might not pick up on that. Yeah. And I thought maybe, and so I said nothing to anybody, and the next day, you know, uh, is nothing throughout the morning.

I thought, oh, maybe, maybe it's gone. Yeah. And, uh. Suddenly I got a call from our communications guy in Victoria and he said he had a few choice words for me, and then he said, Lori, just get outta town. So I took my uh, campaign manager and we were gonna go and knock on doors in Harrison Mills. And on the way, I got a call on my Bluetooth from Andrew.

Lori pulled over immediately. So I pulled over and he said, Lori, we've had a good relationship, but I have to ask [00:30:00] you to resign immediately as a candidate for the BC Liberal party. And I said, I'm sorry. Andrew, I, you know, I don't, I didn't blame him. The media would've been all over him, and he said, I have to go now into, into, into a forest of hostile reporters and try and make some, you know, sense of this.

Yeah. And you know, the, the, the great, uh, one of the great sadnesses of it is that I had so many friends in the BC liberal party, the caucus, and suddenly. They were all completely cut off. They can't have anything more to do with me, and I don't wanna have anything more to do with them and Sully their name by, you know, associating with them in any way.

I couldn't even be seen to have coffee with anybody.

Kyle: Yeah.

Laurie: So I haven't spoken to Andrew Simpson and we were good friends. And I, I think that's, but he's

Kyle: outta politics now, isn't he?

Laurie: No, he's still in MLA. Oh, he's still an mla. He's not the

Kyle: leader anymore. He's

Laurie: just not the leader. Okay. So anyway, so you know.

I, I, I felt then that, you know, as an independent, uh, I thought for a couple of days about it, and then I decided, [00:31:00] okay. And that's when I received. You were pretty quiet

Kyle: for a couple days on, on there. Yes.

Laurie: I, I was shocked and I didn't know what to do. Uh, but you know, I consulted with friends. Yeah, close friends.

And, uh, they said, Lori, you should go for it. And tell people that you're going for it. So I did. We raised a bunch of money. The next, the next week we changed all of our signs. We mounted whatever we could. I mean, I was cut off from the BC liberal website immediately so that I didn't have access to my voters or lists or you know, money or anything.

Yeah, I was completely cut off so I couldn't run. You know, the campaign I would've liked to in the last week and, uh, and I lost by 1300 votes. And I think people thought people would've voted for me, but they thought since he's left the party, uh, there is an alternative in Jason Lum to vote for. 'cause he's a young entrepreneur and he's very popular.

And I think that made, uh, the day independents don't win. That's the, the moral of the story. Yeah,

Kyle: it's really interesting. Like for me, the outside looking in and. And in into politics. I've been [00:32:00] always been interested in politics. I remember reading the newspaper as a young kid and mm-hmm. And, uh, I was a terrible student and I was terrible in school.

But I loved, I loved politics, love reading the newspaper, and, uh, it really bothers me even now that. As a politician, you can't just say what you believe, like you have to, it seems like besides Trump, uh, who on many issues I don't agree with at all, um, who's, who's one of the very few politicians that will just say exactly what he believes

Laurie: and, and there is no greater peer pressure than you have in a political caucus because anything I say.

Is put on the heads of 45 other people, and they're all associated with whatever I say and whatever they say. I have to bear. Yeah. And so what you can say is very tightly scripted because it has to be, uh, approved by everybody. Yeah. And sometimes people said things that I disagreed with, I said nothing.

Sometimes I would say things they disagreed with, they would say nothing. But we didn't criticize each [00:33:00] other in public and we made our peace in caucus. Yeah. And that's a good thing, but it really does constrain what you can say very much.

Kyle: Yeah. So you lose. I mean, you are in many ways, this is, uh, your I identity for a while.

This is a big deal for you. Something you, uh, you serve the community very, uh, with a lot of passion. And I did and, and, and, and loved the, the people that you, I did had served. Yeah. So how, how did you handle this personally? You all of a sudden your job's gone. Uh, your, in many ways, uh, your reputation is ruined for a lot of people.

Yes. For a lot of people It's not like, but, but for how, how did you, how did you take this? How did you move on?

Laurie: Uh, it's hard to move on. And I spent a lot of sleepless nights thinking about that fatal moment in the all candidates meeting. Uh, you know, uh, you live your life and time passes and time is a healer.

And I began to volunteer for things and do other things and hobbies and things like that. Uh, I took, you know, new Testament Greek this summer, which is an [00:34:00] ordeal, which consumed, you know, 24 hours a day for, you know, two months. And, uh, so doing things like that fills your time, but, but you do reflect a lot about it.

Politics is an extremely personal job. Uh, when you have 68% of the people and you're writing voting against you, that is, you know, how can I show my face in public again? Basically, I go to a rotary meeting and you know, I think two thirds of these people voted against me. They think you should not be in that job.

Yeah. And, and so it's a very personal thing and it's difficult to get over. I won't lie.

Kyle: And it still, I mean, it's been 13 months now. How, how, how, how's it going now? Do you find yourself like, I mean, COVID probably helped in going out because everything was shut down. But

Laurie: yeah. You know, I'm, I'm moving on with my life.

I'm volunteering and stuff and, and I have a good life. I have no complaints. Yeah. And it's a less stressful life. Yeah. Because, you know, I don't have the stress of politics and all of the, uh, things that fall on your shoulders because of that. And, uh, so it's a less stressful [00:35:00] life. And basically I'm semi-retired and, uh, and if I would've been elected, I would've had to make that, make that same.

These same choices about what to do with my life a few years later. It's just been accelerated a little bit. Fair

Kyle: enough. So politics in the future is not in the cards.

Laurie: I don't think anybody would touch me with a 10 foot pole. Fair enough. I don't think even the conservatives Fair enough. Okay. No.

Kyle: Um. So I, I kinda wanna talk about the state of politics in Canada today.

Mm-hmm. So, you, you say federally. Mm-hmm. Um, the conservative party is also becoming a liberal party where the conservatives are falling off. Talk, talk to me about that.

Laurie: Well, you think of Derek Sloan. Derek Sloan was objective from the party. Uh, nice Christian Guy. Uh, he had, uh, you know, um, un varying. Uh, Christian views and he wasn't afraid to express it.

And so he gets booted out of the party. And, um, Aaron O'Toole comes across very pro social [00:36:00] conservative in his leadership. And then when he's elected, uh, he comes, uh, across much less so. And that alienates. That side of the party. And you know, it's always been my thought that we need a leader, provincially and federally in the conservative party, who is tall enough to straddle both sides of this growing divide.

Uh, you need the social conservatives in the tent. If they're not in the tent, you can't win. There they may not be enough to win your government, but they can make you lose government. Yeah. Uh, in, in 2017, the BC liberals had a few conservatives run. Um, we came within 180 votes. Out of 2 million votes from winning the election.

It was unbelievably, it was a razor thin margin of a razor thin margin. Yeah. I've never seen anything like it, and it was because we lost those conservatives. And so my. Drumbeat in caucus was we have to keep the conservatives in the tent. And I think [00:37:00] now, um, the, with the, the leadership candidates and, and federally as well, the desire is you have to appeal to the center.

And so in order to appeal to the center, you have to eject the right. And I think that's a wrong philosophy. And it means, and this isn't

Kyle: the All right, we're talking about. We're just talking about No, no. We're just talking about, uh, these aren't, these aren't Trump voters. No. These are, these are just very, these

Laurie: are, five years ago they would've been centrist.

Yeah,

Kyle: that's right.

Laurie: You know, our country and the discourse has changed so much in such a short time that, uh,

Kyle: not to say actually that all Trump voters are all right, but I mean, there I know what you mean there, there's, everybody knows what you mean. Yeah,

Laurie: yeah, yeah.

Kyle: Well, I, I don't know about that, but maybe not.

Yeah. Okay. That's fair. It's good. But, so this bill just passed in the house fe federally in the House of Commons Bill C four banning, banning conversion therapy. Banning conversion therapy. Yeah. And there's, so there's not a single mp, a federal mp, uh, that voted against this. It was unanimous, uh, in, in the Senate and, and, and also in the [00:38:00] house.

Um. For, for me as a, as a social conservative, it's, it's, I, I almost, I was talking to my wife about this this afternoon. I said, where is the future of this? Like, uh, where, where is this headed? Do you, do you see, um. A split happening, another party starting, uh, federally. Do you, do you, do you see this going back or do you think it's the writing's on the wall and, uh, the culture is just changing too quickly and, and if you're Christian, you're just, sorry, you're, you're, you're in the altar minority now.

Laurie: I think. I think the Christian is being pushed out. I really do. And, uh, you know, the burning of seven churches in the west. Recently, uh, sort of underscored that where, uh, John Horgan put out a tweet. Tut tut. You shouldn't do that, you know? Um. Sort of praising with faint dams, if you like, you know, you can dam with faint praise or you can praise with faint dams.

Yeah. And, and so I think the writing is on the wall [00:39:00] for, uh, for Christians who want to hold to the principles of their faith and be involved in politics. Uh, the vehicle there, there is really very little political vehicle for them anymore. Uh, perhaps the people's party, but the media has consigned the people's party to the extremist wing and so.

I wonder if that's a vehicle either. And, you know, the Christian Heritage Party is uh, of course, um, very narrow in its appeal as well. And so to have a party with a broad appeal that includes Christians, I don't know if that's in our future. I really don't, I was talking to a Christian school principal a few years ago and he said, we came to this country so that we could live by our conscience.

When do we have to move away from this country so we can continue to live by our conscience? Yeah. And that, to me, for him to have to say that is, is tragic. Uh, and you know, I always called for the rights for L-G-B-T-Q people and, [00:40:00] uh. I always did, but I said everybody has rights. Everyone is, uh. All people of responsibility and good intention should be welcome in BC and welcome to participate at the Political Table.

We all have rights and diversity and inclusion. Must include Christians as well as everybody else. Devote Roman Catholics, evangelicals, Sikhs, Muslims, uh, all those people who represent the. Broad diversity of faith and, and, uh, morays in our country. Yeah. And I think we're losing that. I think we're losing that.

And if the conservatives federally lose that they will, uh, they will. I don't think they'll ever form government.

Kyle: And so, I mean, there's a lot of guys that are my age, uh, younger men and women, um, that are full of passion and, and that hold conservative values, um, that want to know what to do. Um, do we move away?

Do [00:41:00] we go push super hard into, um, being influential and try to change their political spectrum or go into that world now? What, what, what advice would you give? Like, what would you say?

Laurie: The, the only thing I can think of is for, uh, social conservatives to join the conservative party and force. The BC liberals to broaden their perspective

Kyle: that the provincial BC consumers.

Yeah.

Laurie: And so the same thing could happen on a federal level, although I think it could be far more difficult. Provincially, it would be much easier because the BC liberals know very well that if their vote is split even a little bit, uh, they will not be able to stand against the NDP and I think they would be eager to bargain and to, uh, make common cause.

And, but I think the issue probably has to be forced that way. Uh, I don't think, although, you know. BC liberals want social conservatives to be in the tent. Obviously they're, they, they're not willing to [00:42:00] provide any policy support or acknowledge. They say, come the tent, believe your values are out. Exactly.

Kyle: And what about federally? Uh, I mean, like right now when I look at the Federal Conservative Party, it's not conservative at all. Um, the, the closest I can see is the people's Party, which is, in my view, not conservative either. It's libertarian and also doesn't. Care about, um, social issues. They just kinda leave you.

They say you can have them, but don't talk about them.

Laurie: Although, you know, I'm old enough to remember Brian Mulroney and his conservatives, and I always, uh, felt aggrieved in the eighties because I felt that Brian Mulroney was too liberal. Okay. But I would argue today that Brian Mulroney had to. Be more liberal in order to capture Ontario and Quebec.

You can't win without Ontario and Quebec. And, but he was big enough to include the social conservatives in the party. So when the abortion bill came, uh, when the abortion law was, uh, shut down, he was willing to introduce a new law, but [00:43:00] the house and the Senate could not come to an agreement on it. And so.

You know, he was willing to accommodate Yeah. Everybody. And that's what gave him, you know, like the largest majority in Canadian history. I think in about 1988.

Kyle: Yeah. So a couple years ago, Trudeau was, uh, proposing proportional representation, uh, which from my understanding a lot of conservatives were against, but from being, having my Dutch heritage where you, that's what they have there.

And I think of Israel, what they have there. That's actually. Um, a system that would work for a lot of social conservatives because it would, we would get five seats. Yes. 10 seats maybe? Yes. Out of the 300 plus. Yes. So would you be for, uh, a system like that, a federal? I, I

Laurie: argued against it when we had our vote here a few years ago.

Okay. Because it is a terrible system of government. Like it is very difficult to come to a governing coalition. Sometimes it takes a year or more. And, uh, and then, you know, I. A small number of people can hold the government hostage to its, [00:44:00] its policies. And those might not be, you know, our policies, they may be far left policies, you know what I mean?

So, uh, it's, it's not an ideal form of government, but it is a form of government that would allow social conservatives a real voice.

Kyle: And so would you change, would you change your view now? Would you still be against that? Would you be open, more open to it now?

Laurie: I still think it's a terrible form of government, and I would rather be part of a big tent party that acknowledged my presence.

Kyle: Because I, if I see it now, that someone like Trudeau can get 30% of the vote in Canada and form a majority government. Yeah. And push through whatever he wants. Yes. For me, that's a terrible,

Laurie: well, I think he's gonna bring in proportional representation, isn't he? I, I think he's talked

Kyle: about that. He has, but he said he backed off.

He said he didn't wanna do it anymore.

Laurie: Last time he did, but I heard that it was coming up again. Okay. So we may get our chance

Kyle: there, may get our chance, but, but, but wouldn't you agree that's also terrible? Like if I tell my friends in the States or that, hey, Trudeau got 30% of the votes and uh, yes, he has a majority government.

Yes, he can push through whatever he wants. Yes. Now it's, now it's minority, but pretty [00:45:00] much majority with the support of the ndp,

Laurie: it might as well be a majority.

Kyle: Yeah, but wouldn't you say that that's just as equally terrible? I mean, 30% of the vote. I mean, that's, that's, that's insane. Yeah. I mean, and that's also also on the conservative side, but

Laurie: Yeah.

No, I agree. I agree. Um, we'll, we'll have to see what happens. Um, could that happen again? I think that's an anomaly in Canadian history, so I doubt that it would happen again. Yeah. But I guess it's not impossible. Yeah. So maybe, maybe proportional representation is the way to go in the future. You know, I'm not.

I'm not, God, I don't have any divine wisdom on this.

Kyle: Thanks for clarifying that. I thought you were,

Laurie: the sarcasm is dripping. Yeah.

Kyle: Yeah. Okay. I mean, and it's, it's, it's really interesting. Like, uh, I don't, I mean, we don't know where. Where the future's gonna go. But I mean, I, I mean, I'm, I'm thinking about moving.

Mm-hmm. Uh, and I know a lot of people are. Yes, I've heard

Laurie: that some families have [00:46:00] moved already to the States. Yeah. Yes.

Kyle: And I think, but this, I think it's happening in many ways in the, in the states too. But I think it also, um, as a Christian. I think the last 300 years, three 50 years in our society is an anomaly in the sense that we've had the freedoms that, um mm-hmm.

We, we've, we've had that we could live in, in a free society mm-hmm. And express our views. Mm-hmm. If you look at the history of Christianity, I think that's, that it's super rare. Um, usually we are on the outside. Mm-hmm. And I think we've forgotten that a bit perhaps. Um, and I think we're going maybe back to normal.

Laurie: Yes. I think that may be true.

Kyle: And I think it's not also a bad thing because I find myself. Just praying more. I, you know, knowing, knowing what's coming. I think I have two young boys and, and I'm like, you know, I, I don't, uh, I, I don't know what the future holds and I really think this is int my home.

Laurie: I don't wish Ill on our country, like I think of the Soviet Union, uh, during the communist era, the gospel did not spread in the Soviet Union.

You know, it did, it did not [00:47:00] ignite the fires of Christianity. It, it was suppressed in a major way. And so I don't think that intolerance will necessarily help to spread Christianity at all. Um, I wish for a country that I grew up in where you're free to say what you want. Yeah. And whether that's religious or non-religious or whatever, where everybody has a Right.

Everybody is welcome at the public policy table.

Kyle: Yeah. Interesting. Um, thank you very much for doing this. Any, any closing, uh, thoughts?

Laurie: No. It's just a pleasure to be here and thank you for allowing me to express myself. It is the first time I've done so nice in a year, so it's nice to Yeah. You know, vent my spleen.

Kyle: Yeah. Fair enough. Awesome. Thanks Laurie. Thank

Laurie: you.

Kyle: Good. That was, uh, very interesting.

Laurie: Thank you for, for having me. Yes.

Kyle: So will this air at a certain time or? Yeah, the first one comes out on, uh, the 17th. [00:48:00] Mm-hmm. And the third, it's basically biweekly. Um, okay. Every Friday. So this will come out in January Uhhuh.

Um, and then, uh, and basically six episodes come out and that season two and I'll probably right away start recording season three. And, uh, and I keep going.

Laurie: So you read the services here?

Kyle: Yeah. Yeah. So I book a two I book, book. Book six at a time. Two hours. Two hour pieces. I'm not sure how long this was.

How long was this? 38 minutes, roughly. Yeah. About 40 minutes. Yeah, 40 minutes.

Laurie: Can I ask how much it cost? Because we're doing podcasts at Chill. How much does

Kyle: it cost, Tim? Um, it's approximately. I think 250 bucks. Yeah. For two hours. Okay. That's not bad. And then, and I, and I get, and so Tim works the cameras and he flips back and forth between us.

Yes. Yes. And that, this view right here, um, and uh, I get just one piece. I plug a little intro and an extra at the, on the, on the back.

Laurie: Yeah.

Kyle: Uh, I drop your name on the bottom. Yeah. And, and, and I upload it and it goes. So it's, uh, I have to do very unfiltered, [00:49:00] very little editing. Yeah. Uh,

Laurie: well, you know, I didn't say anything fatal today, I don't think.

Kyle: I mean, it's, but I can't be fired, so it doesn't matter. You can't be fired. He fired. I still can be fired. Um, I mean, I, I think even the liberals in the states are, are saying this like Bill Maher who, who for years Yes. I watched him on

Laurie: Facebook

Kyle: here. Yeah. For years. He was the most far left Yes. Person in America.

Yes. And he is now the person on the left that's considered Central. Yes. And I'm like, what Bill Mahers Center? Because he believes in like freedom of speech. He believes that like Yeah. Cancel culture isn't good. Yeah. He believes in all this stuff and I, I, it's fascinating to me, more

Laurie: traditional views.

Suddenly he's become a traditionalist. Yeah.

Kyle: And, and, and it's, it's, it's madness to me because he mocks Christianity. Yeah. Hardcore. And, and he has no use for it. Yeah. But, uh, he just says like, if you can't say what you believe in, what's the point of having a, A nation? A nation? So, um. I mean, I, yeah, I mean, comedians say it, they can't do, like now, now [00:50:00] comedians, you go into a hall, everyone has to hand on their phone, you know?

Laurie: Look at, look at Dave Chappelle, right? That's right. Yeah. Mind you, he made $50 million from those episodes, so I think he's fine. I think he's fine. He's quite happy. In fact, in fact, I watched a little bit of it on Netflix and I thought if that guy. Didn't have the N word or the uh, or the F word. He wouldn't have anything to say.

Fair enough. Yeah. And that's another part of our, you know, it is sort of a downward slide. Yes.

Kyle: Yeah. It's cool.

Laurie: Okay. I guess I'm done here.

Kyle: I will do a shoot a little extra here. Uh,

Laurie: okay. In a, in a sec. Here. Uh, Tim.

‍

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