Canada Is Building a Surveillance State | John Carpay - EP 56

July 4, 2026

[00:00:00] JOHN: My camera that's up ahead, like right now- Ah ... I'm actually supposed to look at that. I'm not supposed to look down on the screen like this. I'm supposed to look straight up into there.

[00:00:08] KYLE: Oh, yeah. It's always that lovely, [00:00:10] that lovely interview, uh, camera. How are you doing?

[00:00:14] JOHN: Life is good. I had a, uh, nice, [00:00:20] um, uh, vi- visited family in the Netherlands from, uh, for about nine days total, and then I had a two and a half week, uh, [00:00:30] trip in central eastern Europe with my, um, 20-year-old daughter.

[00:00:37] So we did, uh, Prague and [00:00:40] Budapest and Vienna, Bratislava, and then, uh, Cracow- Cracow, Poland, and, uh, so that was, that was [00:00:50] great. Yeah.

[00:00:52] KYLE: That's awesome. That's awesome. And when'd you get back?

[00:00:56] JOHN: Just two days ago. I'm still jet lagged. Yeah. I came back late Monday night. Oh, okay. So [00:01:00] right, right now my body's like, you know, it's 10:30 PM European time, you know, I should be getting ready for bed.

[00:01:06] Yeah,

[00:01:06] KYLE: right. You, you, you need a wine, not a coffee. [00:01:10]

[00:01:10] JOHN: But, uh, no, I got coffee here.

[00:01:12] KYLE: Yeah. Okay. Any questions before we get started?

[00:01:15] JOHN: So we're going for one hour, and, uh, we're doing C-34. [00:01:20] What other topics? Or are you gonna do... If you wanna do multiple topics, I'm fine with that, too.

[00:01:25] KYLE: Yeah. I just f- first wanna just get, uh, a, a little bit of your story, um- Okay

[00:01:29] uh, uh, because [00:01:30] I wasn't familiar with you at all up until we did that event a month ago. And so I know a lot, lot of my listeners won't be as, either, and, and, uh, kind of how you got into the work. And then I, uh, Bill C-34 [00:01:40] and Bill C-6 and, um, and, and maybe some more, more of the broader cultural questions of like why, why, why we're here in the first place.

[00:01:48] JOHN: Right on. So- Yeah, I'm [00:01:50] ready to go ... and

[00:01:50] KYLE: then, and you're a hard cutoff one hour, or if it goes a couple minutes over, like, what are you...?

[00:01:55] JOHN: Oh, a couple minutes over is fine.

[00:01:57] KYLE: Okay.

[00:01:57] JOHN: Yeah. Yeah, I don't, I don't have another [00:02:00] meeting, uh, so it's not a hard end, I guess. Yeah.

[00:02:04] KYLE: Okay. Sounds good. Okay. Awesome. Um, I, uh, [00:02:10] I always say, uh, bef- before I, um, the re- bef- this won't get published, but, um, I always just say a quick prayer before I, uh, record, just ask for a blessing, and then we'll get into it.

[00:02:17] Okay. Lord Jesus, thanks that, uh, John and [00:02:20] I get to record here, um, and, uh, he gets to share the work that, uh, that he's doing and, uh, and why he's doing it. Um, I ask that you'd help me ask good questions, help him with the answers, and that, uh, when the [00:02:30] listeners, um, listen down the road, they would be, uh, blessed and, uh, enlightened by it, in Jesus' name.

[00:02:34] Amen.

[00:02:35] JOHN: Amen.

[00:02:37] KYLE: Okay. Uh, [00:02:40] welcome back everyone to another episode of the Furious Securus Show. My guest today is John Carpay. He's a lawyer who spent most of his career defending constitutional freedoms and the rule of [00:02:50] law across Canada. Um, but he's also the founder and president of the Justice Center for Constitutional Freedoms, whose mission is to defend the constitutional freedoms of Canadians through [00:03:00] litigation and education.

[00:03:02] John has appeared at, at every, uh, level of court in Canada, including the Supreme Court, and through his work, John has helped hundreds of Canadians receive legal representation [00:03:10] in defense of their charter rights, which I guess for an American listener would be, uh, the same as constitutional rights, John, in, in the US?

[00:03:16] Yeah. Relatively the same? Yeah. And then, uh, often [00:03:20] standing alongside people who've taken real risks to push back against government overreach, as risky as driving a truck to, uh, Ottawa. Um, [00:03:30] John, thank you for, uh, coming on the show. I appreciate you being here.

[00:03:33] JOHN: Well, I'm really glad to be with you, Carl, and with your viewers and listeners.

[00:03:37] KYLE: How, how did you get into this, uh, kind of work? I- I seen that [00:03:40] you, um, became a lawyer in the '90s already. Was this something that you were passionate about then? How did, how did you get into this, the work that you do?

[00:03:48] JOHN: I've had a passion [00:03:50] for truth, justice, and freedom, uh, my whole life. Uh, especially, it, it kind of awakened when I was a teenager.

[00:03:58] Uh, social [00:04:00] studies, learning about politics, uh, seeing that y- you know, the part of justice is having just laws. [00:04:10] I mean, p- another part of justice is, you know, treating your neighbor well, being kind, being charitable, uh, loving your neighbor, that, that's an important part of justice as well, [00:04:20] and i- in addition to that, to, to have just laws.

[00:04:23] So for example, uh, Christians fought to abolish slavery. William Wilberforce [00:04:30] in the, uh, starting in the late 1700s and, uh, a lot of Quakers, w- uh, they, they changed the laws that allowed the slave trade [00:04:40] and, and slavery. And so I've always had that, that, that passion for justice and for freedom. Uh, I've, I've believed for, since I [00:04:50] was a teenager that, uh- Government should respect our dignity.

[00:04:55] Freedom means that government's not going to take away our rights to speak, [00:05:00] to worship, to practice our faith, to associate, uh, to, uh, to gather together peacefully. Uh, these are just... You know, [00:05:10] it's, it's about human rights, and human dignity means that you need a government that respects all these rights and freedoms.

[00:05:17] So those have been core convictions. And then I [00:05:20] didn't go to law school until I was 28. And the, the delay, I just... I don't know. I, I just wasn't super interested until then.

[00:05:29] KYLE: Okay. Fair enough. [00:05:30] And, and those issues that you said you were passionate about, like justi- justice and the, the different rights people have, when you say that to someone in Canada today, they would, I would s- um, have a [00:05:40] lot more understanding that it's a real issue because of what the government is doing.

[00:05:43] And, and we'll get to that, Bill C-6, Bill C-34, other things. Um, but in the '90s, um, from what I [00:05:50] recall, I mean, I was just a kid, uh, that wasn't in the forefront, uh, of, of, uh... And government overreach wasn't as maybe prevalent as it is today, a- at least from my perspective. Would [00:06:00] you disagree on that? Or, or what was happening justice-wise or, like, government overreach-wise in, in, during that time that got you passionate about it?[00:06:10]

[00:06:10] JOHN: Well, we've, we've had a slow decline for several decades as many parents in Canada have, have, uh, abdicated their responsibility [00:06:20] to r- to raise their own children, educate their own children. We've had, uh... I, I've done a lot of work defending free speech for university students, [00:06:30] and what I've been seeing the last 30 years is that the, the kids coming out of high school, C- Canadian high schools, they don't know how to think.

[00:06:38] They don't know how to [00:06:40] debate. If they hear an, an opinion that, that they disagree with, like maybe a pro-life perspective on abortion, they just get very angry and say that, [00:06:50] uh, you know, they have a right to safety, and their right to safety means not being exposed to, uh, opinions that they, they disagree with.

[00:06:57] So there, there's been a decline for [00:07:00] decades where you've got people graduating from high school that they don't know how to think, they don't know how to debate, and they're, uh, they, they do know how [00:07:10] to demand that their opponents be silenced. So I think the roots go back, uh, but I think things have [00:07:20] gotten When the governments imposed lockdowns in 2020, which were violations of our charter freedoms of association, speech, religion, conscious- [00:07:30] conscience, uh, peaceful assembly.

[00:07:32] When the government violated our charter rights and freedoms through lockdowns in 2021, it, it seemed the majority of [00:07:40] Canadians were cheering on the government saying, "Yes, violate our rights. You know, violate them harder." So we've, we've got decades of cultural decline that, that need to be reversed. [00:07:50]

[00:07:50] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:07:51] Okay. So I, I agree with that. So what was it in the '90s that was happening that already made you get passionate about getting into these, uh, about fighting for these [00:08:00] issues that, you know, 'cause now I know why people are into it today, but what were, what were people f- what was the decline already happening in the '90s?

[00:08:07] Or I think it was, but what was happening that you could, that made [00:08:10] you be like, "Hey, this isn't right what the government's doing"? Or were there any cases back then that made you, um, think about the justice thing more?

[00:08:18] JOHN: Well, we've had, [00:08:20] uh, challenges to, uh, the, the undermining of parental authority and, you know, the, uh, getting children taught [00:08:30] ideologi- ideologies, whether it's, you know, feminist or LGBTQ or socialism or whatever.

[00:08:36] Kids getting indoctrinated in schools, that was already going [00:08:40] on for sure in the 1990s. Uh, the institution of, of, uh, of marriage was under heavy attack. Uh, it was already [00:08:50] in the human rights codes that, that, uh, you had to be very careful if you criticize homosexuality or criticize the LGBTQ [00:09:00] lifestyle or agenda.

[00:09:01] You've gotta be cautious. Uh, so those warnings were already there in the 1990s. Uh, but

[00:09:09] KYLE: [00:09:10] cer- And you would've been aware of them? Like, you would've been talking about them with your family and things like that? Like, w- uh, what, what... It was mainstream in your life to be thinking and discussing about those issues back then?

[00:09:19] JOHN: It was. [00:09:20] And I, I apologize for... This is the first time somebody's asked me about what went on in the 1990s, so I'm, I'm having a hard- Fair enough ... having a hard time generating a lot of examples, [00:09:30] but I've, I've tried with a few.

[00:09:31] KYLE: Fair enough. Okay. Understood. And, and, um, what was home, home like life growing up?

[00:09:36] Like, was, was, uh... Did your dad have a big impact on you becoming [00:09:40] passionate about these issues? Uh, um, were politics and, and, uh, rights and freedoms discussed at, at, at home and, and that's kinda what shaped you? What, what shapes the worldview you have? [00:09:50]

[00:09:50] JOHN: Um, yeah, I'm not sure what, uh, my, uh... Neither my mother nor my stepfather, her husband, neither of them were super interested in politics, but they did [00:10:00] generally follow it.

[00:10:01] I, I think they were kinda conservative-minded on the whole. Um, yeah, it's hard to say what impact they had on me. I was far more [00:10:10] interested in justice issues and social issues and politics than what they were, so I don't know if it was maybe it was [00:10:20] I don't- Sociocultural, genetic, I'm not sure.

[00:10:23] KYLE: Yeah. In the live event we did a month ago, um, that I, that I was with, uh, with you there, um, you mentioned that, [00:10:30] uh, uh, what happened to your grandparents, um, a- during the Nazis in the 1940s, that, that, that shaped you.

[00:10:36] Uh, c- can you speak to that?

[00:10:38] JOHN: So I was born in [00:10:40] 1967, which was 22 years after the end of the war, which- Sounds like it could be a long time, but re- really it's not, you know, if, if you're older. I s- If you're a [00:10:50] teenager or if you're 20 years old, 22 years sounds like a long time. But, um-

[00:10:54] KYLE: Nine, 9/11 is more than 22 years ago as, as a comparison, so.

[00:10:57] JOHN: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So [00:11:00] I grew up hearing about the, uh, the Nazi occupation, uh, of the Netherlands by Nazi Germany and the hardships that my grandparents suffered. [00:11:10] And, uh, my grandfather was, um, taken into a... Had to be in a, imprisoned in a prisoner of war camp in Germany [00:11:20] for I think it was about two and a half years.

[00:11:21] Came back a changed man, changed for the worse. He had been a happy-go-lucky, fun-loving guy and, you know, came back [00:11:30] very psychologically damaged from that. And, um So when Nazi Germany occupied the Netherlands, one of the things they [00:11:40] did was they took away all of the fundamental freedoms. Freedom of speech, freedom of conscience and religion, uh, was not removed entirely.

[00:11:47] People could still go to church, but they couldn't [00:11:50] fully practice their faith because fully practicing their faith would have included criticizing the government, which was illegal. Uh, they shut down freedom of [00:12:00] association. There's no political parties. Uh, freedom of peaceful assembly, you could not protest, uh, peacefully.

[00:12:06] Travel, mobility rights, you know, show me your papers before [00:12:10] you can go anywhere. So this is what repressive regimes do, is they, they take away all of your rights and freedoms. And unfortunately, a lot of Canadians, they only see it if it's [00:12:20] Nazis or communists doing it.

[00:12:22] KYLE: Mm.

[00:12:22] JOHN: But if it's, you know, somebody doing it under a different ideology or a different banner, they don't...

[00:12:29] [00:12:30] Uh, they're not tuned into it as much. You know, it's like, "Well, that's okay, you know, 'cause it's all about love and diversity and equity and inclusion, and it's all about the rainbow flag, so [00:12:40] therefore it's not tyranny." It's like, well, wait a minute. No. When the government, uh, imposes penalties and consequences on your speech, uh, when the [00:12:50] government imposes consequences on you fully practicing your faith, they're doing the same thing on a smaller scale that the, uh, communists and the Nazis did [00:13:00] in the past.

[00:13:00] KYLE: Yeah. And, and do you think when you, like you said earlier during the, um, trucker protests and, and during COVID in 2020, that the majority of Canadians were on the side of the government. Is [00:13:10] that statistically true, or is that just from the media's- from what the media was telling everybody, or?

[00:13:16] JOHN: It, it's my overall impression seeing the high degree of [00:13:20] compliance, uh, where, you know, everybody's putting on a mask in the store and, uh, just in my own circle of friends, there, there are people that I...[00:13:30]

[00:13:31] P- people that I thought were in favor of human rights and civil liberties and constitutional freedoms, people that I thought believed in small government, [00:13:40] all of a sudden it's like they become unthinkingly obedient and it was like, "Well, the chief, the chief medical officer said, the chief health officer said [00:13:50] such and such, so that absolutely must be obeyed.

[00:13:52] You know, I'm, I'm- I stand behind the, the chief medical officer." This is people that I knew who had previously been [00:14:00] very much in favor of, of human rights and, and protecting us from government violation of, of constitutional freedoms. So no, I don't have hard [00:14:10] data, but just what I saw around me, it seemed to be the majority of Canadians, uh, supporting these measures

[00:14:16] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:14:17] Yeah. And, and, uh, do you think [00:14:20] that's mainly driven by the media? Like it seems like the media in Canada compared to United States, for example, is majority, uh, of left-leaning, hard left wing with [00:14:30] very little right-wing news. Um, and that seems to really shape and dictate a lot of the culture. I even seen it with, um, the conservative, um, circles I grew up in, that the older [00:14:40] generation seemed to be a lot more in favor of these things the government was pushing forward, but it seems like they were just listening to CBC mainly, and that what, you know, was being translated that way.

[00:14:49] Uh, um, [00:14:50] do, do you see the same thing and, and... Or is it more, you know, we are the British, um, we- we're not like the Americans who fought against the British and, and have this almost like fight back [00:15:00] mentality in their culture to, to against the government?

[00:15:04] JOHN: Well, I think the media fear-mongering played a huge role.

[00:15:08] Uh, the... [00:15:10] There's a basic principle of, of propaganda. Uh, certainly the, the Nazi propaganda minister, uh, Jose- Joseph, uh, Goebbels discovered this, but he's not the only person [00:15:20] to use it. But when people hear a message over and over and over and over and over again, they come to believe that the message is true.

[00:15:29] That's a [00:15:30] generality. And, and- It doesn't always apply. If you know a lot about a topic, you're gonna be resistant to it, right? If you know a lot about [00:15:40] motorcycles, you're not gonna be that influenced by a radio ad in favor of Kawasaki or Honda or, or, uh, [00:15:50] Harley-Davidson or, or whatever, right? Because you got your own opinion.

[00:15:52] Mm-hmm. If you don't know about motorcycles and you keep on hearing ads for one particular kind of motorcycle, you're gonna start to think it- [00:16:00] it's probably a good one, you know? Yeah,

[00:16:02] KYLE: yeah.

[00:16:03] JOHN: And so this repeated, uh... And now we have a 24-hour news cycle, so it wasn't like 40 years ago where you might hear, [00:16:10] you know, the media might try to terrorize you at the 6:00 news, but they wouldn't get another chance until maybe the 10 or 11:00 news, uh, or the next day.

[00:16:19] Whereas now you have [00:16:20] this 24-hour news cycle. iPhone. And you have fa- false information about high numbers of deaths, uh, based on, uh, [00:16:30] intellectually dishonest ways of calculating COVID deaths. So yeah, people got really scared with that repeated, you know, COVID deaths, COVID, COVID, CO- Photographs of dead people, photographs of dying [00:16:40] people.

[00:16:40] Uh, th- they influence you more than words do. And so these scary images of dead and dying people [00:16:50] with this false information about high numbers of COVID, uh, infections and, and COVID deaths, it got people so scared. It did.

[00:16:59] KYLE: [00:17:00] Okay. And, and would you say that that's, like, in the, in the US that was happening as well, but they had, it seemed like they had a, a messaging from another group of people as well that was at least in somewhat the [00:17:10] mainstream.

[00:17:10] I, I didn't see that in Canada really. Y- You have any take on why that is?

[00:17:15] JOHN: Well, fortunately, we've got independent media in Canada, like yourself, this, this [00:17:20] videocast, podcast. Uh, you've got The Rebel, you've got Juno News, uh, you've got The Epoch Times, you've got The Western Standard, uh, you've got Facebook groups, you've got, [00:17:30] uh, a few, not many, pro-freedom organizations.

[00:17:33] Frontier Centre for Public Policy, uh, for example, and, uh, you know, the [00:17:40] Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms, you got the Fraser Institute. Uh, so w- but it's smaller than in the US. Uh, but [00:17:50] thankfully we did have independent media that got the truth out to an awful lot of people. And the Justice Centre's own support base tripled [00:18:00] during the lockdowns and vaccine passports period, even though we were getting boycotted by the government-funded CBC, CTV, Global.

[00:18:08] All of the so-called [00:18:10] mainstream media were boycotting us. We didn't get any press coverage, and yet we tripled our support base thanks to, uh, Western Standard, [00:18:20] LifeSite News, uh, The Epoch Times, Juno News, and so on.

[00:18:24] KYLE: Yeah, yeah. Okay. Um, you said earlier that you felt that many parents have abdicated their [00:18:30] responsibility in, in, in teaching their kids, uh, um, values a- and that they can, um, as adults, uh, implement.

[00:18:38] W- where do you think that comes from? [00:18:40] Combi- How, how did you, how did you get to that opinion?

[00:18:44] JOHN: Well, it's a combination of trust and laziness. We do have a tradition in Canada, uh, as people [00:18:50] who rejected the American Revolution and who embraced the, the, the Crown, uh, you know? We do have that tradition of deference [00:19:00] to authority, trusting in authority.

[00:19:03] Although I must say, that tradition is way stronger in Ontario than in Western Canada. Uh, but-

[00:19:09] KYLE: Interesting ... [00:19:10]

[00:19:10] JOHN: so w- what, what, what's gone on in Canada is that parents trusted the schools, that the schools are not gonna teach garbage and [00:19:20] falsehoods to their kids. Uh, they're not gonna tell little five-year-old Johnny that, you know, he's not really a boy and he might be a girl, and he can [00:19:30] become a girl if he wants to.

[00:19:31] You know, there's this level of trust that they're not going... The, the, the schools are gonna present both sides or all three sides or all four sides [00:19:40] to an argument, and not just engage in indoctrination on, uh, one side only on, you know, for example, this idea that mankind controls the weather, [00:19:50] that there's gonna be a debate about that as opposed to- Mm

[00:19:54] there is only one truth.

[00:19:55] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:19:56] JOHN: So, so part of it is this trust, uh, [00:20:00] that, that the governments... Sorry. No. Parents trust that the government-funded, government-run schools are gonna be okay, and the second [00:20:10] part is just laziness that when parents did discover and when parents do discover how bad the public school curriculum is, uh, they don't always pull their kids out because, [00:20:20] uh, the public school is a wonderful 9:00 to 3:00 babysitting service.

[00:20:23] It gives parents the freedom to have both parents working outside of the home. Um, [00:20:30] so part of it's laziness, too.

[00:20:32] KYLE: Hmm. Okay. You mentioned in, uh, your talk that you did that, where was that? That you believe that politics is downstream from the culture, [00:20:40] and that to fix a lot of these issues the cul- the culture needs to change.

[00:20:44] How, how do we do that?

[00:20:47] JOHN: Bit by bit, slowly, with lots of [00:20:50] blood, sweat, tears, and toil. Uh, there's no quick fix. It's doing a lot of thankless work, like making sure that your own kids, whether it's through [00:21:00] homeschooling or through a private school or, or otherwise, making sure your own kids are, you know, learning how to read and write, which, you know, not [00:21:10] necessarily the case in the public schools.

[00:21:11] Yeah. That your own kids are, are, uh, being taught to appreciate the, the free society where [00:21:20] we have these freedoms of speech, where we can debate, we can think, we can reason, we can practice our faith, uh, where we can peacefully [00:21:30] overthrow the government and, and, uh, elect a, a better one, hopefully. Yeah. So, um, it's up to parents and it's up to grandparents to [00:21:40] support their adult children in raising W- th- their kids or th- the grandkids.

[00:21:48] KYLE: Mm.

[00:21:49] JOHN: Uh, [00:21:50] i- it's about creating our own institutions and organizations and societies and, and, a- and so on, uh, where there's kind of a, a [00:22:00] subculture of people who appreciate good values.

[00:22:04] KYLE: Yeah. So do you see a lot of what you do then to be also educational [00:22:10] for the Canadians versus just, um, trying to win cases in court?

[00:22:15] JOHN: Yeah. We spend, uh... A little over half of our budget [00:22:20] is spent on the litigation, where we've got a team of lawyers across Canada, uh, in court. Um, but, but close to half is on public education. [00:22:30] So we've produced a curriculum about, um, the, the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms with separate modules on each of [00:22:40] expression, uh, freedom of expression, freedom of religion, uh, association, peaceful assembly.

[00:22:46] So we have these modules that, uh, that are available on our website. [00:22:50] We do podcasts, videocasts. We've just hired a, uh, video producer that's gonna be starting with us so we can expand- That's good ... our, our work in that [00:23:00] area. So yeah, cl- close to half of our work is on public education, and just a little bit more than half is on the litigation.

[00:23:09] KYLE: Yeah. [00:23:10] All right. Uh, so I, I have a take on how culture changes, and I wanna share it with you. I just wanna... curious what your take, what, what your response is to it, what your opinion is on it. So I, I think [00:23:20] that, um, this world is set in order by a creator, I, I believe that to be God, and I think the resurrection proves that, that it's, that Jesus is the Christ, [00:23:30] um, that he was truly God and truly man, and therefore his, how he designed it, just like if I designed, uh, my own car, uh, you know, I have a, a [00:23:40] manual of how it's supposed to operate, and, and, and changing that fundamentally won't work.

[00:23:43] I believe that's the, um, God designed this world in a way to do that, and that once we believe [00:23:50] in him and his, um, ways, uh, of also morality, that from that belief and conviction comes a, an [00:24:00] acting out on it which will then overall be better for Canada. Um, and, and that revival is needed for Canada to change because if that [00:24:10] isn't your foundation, you h- are, uh, subjective in what your morality is, or you get to decide what it is and what it isn't.

[00:24:17] Um, what, what's your take on [00:24:20] that?

[00:24:21] JOHN: Well, the Founding Fathers of the United States said, and I happen to agree, that a free society can only work [00:24:30] with a virtuous people. So the more virtuous that we are, meaning the more, um, honest, generous, compassionate, [00:24:40] uh, kind, truthful, uh, courageous, the more virtuous that people are, the, [00:24:50] the, the better and the easier it is to have a free society.

[00:24:55] We got eight billion people on the Earth, and, uh, so we have eight billion [00:25:00] egos on the Earth, and those egos are gonna clash with each other. The best way to get along is if everybody has, uh, some, hopefully lots of humility, [00:25:10] then we can kinda work things out, we can negotiate, we can compromise. And but to the extent that we're not virtuous, the less virtue we have as people, the more that we [00:25:20] need laws.

[00:25:21] Mm-hmm. And so if we're not virtuous... So a virtuous people doesn't need a lot of laws. You, you can have a few, you know, thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, but you don't [00:25:30] need hundreds of thousands of regulations. You don't need speech laws to try to force people to be nice to each other. Mm-hmm. So when people are virtuous, a free society [00:25:40] functions a lot better, uh, than if people are lacking in honesty, courage, generosity, kindness, truthfulness, and so on, [00:25:50] that's where you get big government that steps in and fills up the vacuum and just passes hundreds of thousands of regulations to try to regulate everything from how, [00:26:00] how restaurants cook their meals, to how you raise your kids, to, you know, what, what you can or cannot put on your truck.

[00:26:08] I mean, like, you [00:26:10] know, there are literally hundreds of thousands of regulations. And-

[00:26:13] KYLE: Yeah,

[00:26:14] JOHN: yeah ... so we need, uh, we, we need virtue. The more virtue that we have, [00:26:20] uh, the easier it is to, to have a free society and to defend the free society.

[00:26:25] KYLE: Yeah. And how do you get to that virtuous state? Like, how, how do you, how, how does a [00:26:30] culture change?

[00:26:30] So I think it's revival a- a- a- and that people come to believe in Jesus Christ and, and, and acknowledge their sin and, and repent from it, and choose to follow his ways. What would [00:26:40] you say your way is that people, a, a culture becomes virtuous?

[00:26:44] JOHN: Well, for, for most people, the religion has a big influence, [00:26:50] uh, for sure.

[00:26:51] But I think you've probably met and you know on both sides of the fence you've got some atheists and agnostics who are very, [00:27:00] uh, truthful people, kind, help their neighbor, love their neighbor, and on the opposite side of the fence, you have people who, uh, profess to be [00:27:10] Christians or, or perhaps, you know, Orthodox practicing Jews or Muslims that are, you know, not kind, not courageous, not honest- Yeah

[00:27:17] not truthful.

[00:27:18] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:27:18] JOHN: So I, I [00:27:20] think, I think religion is definitely the pathway, the avenue for, for most people. But I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's the only way to have a [00:27:30] virtuous society, right? Mm. Because you got these examples of atheists and agnostics who are very moral, generous, and truthful.

[00:27:37] KYLE: Fair enough. Okay. So you don't, so you [00:27:40] wouldn't be of the opinion that, um, people are fundamentally flawed or, or, or, or sinful. You believe that y- we can, we are born good and can, you know, [00:27:50] with education can, uh, uh, um, live that out?

[00:27:54] JOHN: No, not quite. No. Okay. My, my, my view, my viewpoint is that, that human nature is a mixture of [00:28:00] good and evil, and we as individuals are capable of rising to great heights, uh, really living out virtues heroically, being super [00:28:10] generous, courageous, so on and so forth.

[00:28:12] But we see with, with, uh, the Holocaust during World War II, plus many other genocides, not just that one, uh, people [00:28:20] can be, uh, heinous murderers and, and an entire society can get on board with a, a genocide. So people are capable of great evil and great [00:28:30] good, and I think human nature is mixed. I think we were created good, and some of that goodness still carries on and stays- Yeah

[00:28:36] with us. But there's definitely been, uh, [00:28:40] corruption of human nature as well.

[00:28:41] KYLE: Okay. And so would you hold to a certain faith, uh, uh, uh, or at all yourself, or where do you land on that?

[00:28:49] JOHN: [00:28:50] Um, my- myself, I'm Catholic, but I, the Justice Center is not, we're not any religion or, or faith. Uh, we've got a, [00:29:00] a lot of our lawyers and, and, uh, staff are, um, are, are Christians, but, but some are not.

[00:29:06] Yeah. So the Justice Center itself is not a religious organization. We don't [00:29:10] have a particular, uh, faith perspective.

[00:29:12] KYLE: Okay. And you're, and that's, and you're also not political, right? And, and that's why you can take donations?

[00:29:17] JOHN: Strictly non-partisan.

[00:29:19] KYLE: Yeah. [00:29:20]

[00:29:20] JOHN: We, we talk about issues. Like, we can... You know, we've often criticized federal and provincial legislation, and sometimes very vociferously.

[00:29:28] But we don't, we [00:29:30] don't take it a step further and tell people who you should vote for, who's, what's the best party or what's the least bad party. So we're very non-partisan, but we do speak out, [00:29:40] uh, without backing down. We speak out, speak out on issues.

[00:29:45] KYLE: Fair enough. Okay. Awesome. Okay. I, I wanna switch to Bill C-6 and Bill [00:29:50] C-34, which are two bills that are in, uh, in the parliament right now.

[00:29:52] Um, I, I would find those, from my perspective, to be the most concerning things that are happening currently in Canada or, or, or about to [00:30:00] happen. Would you agree with that? Uh, or, or would you say there's other issues that are actually more, uh, important right now?

[00:30:06] JOHN: Well, can you ex- can you briefly describe Bill C-6?

[00:30:08] Because there have been a few Bill [00:30:10] C-6s over the years. Which, which law are you referring to there?

[00:30:13] KYLE: So maybe actually, maybe it's, maybe it's seven. It, it's the one, um, referencing, um, the Bible, uh, can, uh, was [00:30:20] not excluded anymore, um, uh, uh, for, uh, falling under hate speech exemptions.

[00:30:25] JOHN: Okay. I know which one you're talking about.

[00:30:27] The Combating Hate Act, [00:30:30] and, and there aren't a lot of numbers floating around. This one is, uh, Bill C-9- Okay ... Combating Hate Act.

[00:30:35] KYLE: Okay. I got that wrong. Okay, yeah.

[00:30:36] JOHN: This has been passed by the House of Commons. Um, I [00:30:40] just w- Uh, recently returned from a holiday. I don't know if it got passed by the Senate as well.

[00:30:45] I, I think it did.

[00:30:46] KYLE: I think it did, yeah.

[00:30:47] JOHN: Yeah. So this opens up the [00:30:50] door to potentially prosecuting, uh, evangelical pastors, Catholic priests, Orthodox Jewish rabbis. [00:31:00] If they, uh, teach from their scriptures that homosexuality is a sin, uh, there could be a, a hate speech prosecution [00:31:10] I, personally, I think that that's not gonna happen in the next few weeks or months.

[00:31:15] Uh, however, if we continue on our current trajectory [00:31:20] of cultural decline, I could see that happening in two years or five years or six years, where there's somebody preaching in church and they say, "Well, here's, here's [00:31:30] what the Bible says about, uh, two guys having sex with each other. God does not approve.

[00:31:35] It's not right." And, you know, they're facing a hate speech prosecution. We've seen it happen in [00:31:40] Europe. There was a Swedish pastor, this is about 15 years ago. He eventually won his case before the European Court of Justice. Uh, but, but he [00:31:50] was Swedish, uh, but evangelical pastor, and had a sermon saying what the Bible says about homosexuality and faced a [00:32:00] prosecution.

[00:32:01] I think it was a criminal prosecution. Currently, we have a Christian member of parliament in Finland who is facing legal difficulties, uh, [00:32:10] over quoting scripture. So anybody who says, "Oh, you know, this would never happen in Canada," well, I'm sure that, you know, f- 40 years ago, the people in Sweden were saying, "Well, this would never happen in [00:32:20] Sweden.

[00:32:20] You know- Yeah ... we never persecute, we never prosecute somebody for, for, uh, pre- preaching from the scriptures. That will never happen here." Well.

[00:32:28] KYLE: Yeah, it happens. Ha- happened, [00:32:30] yeah. And it's happened all throughout history. Like, are, are you surprised by how things, how quick this is star- starting to come f- forward?

[00:32:37] JOHN: I was surprised in [00:32:40] 2020 at, at... I, I... When so many people, when it appeared that so many people were supporting these utterly unscientific, uh, [00:32:50] lockdown measures that, that were violating charter freedoms, when I saw so many people supporting those measures so enthusiastically, I was surprised. I didn't think we had [00:33:00] sunk that far.

[00:33:00] But yeah, we've, we've sunk down a long ways- Yeah ... in Canada in terms of people understanding and appreciating and cherishing their [00:33:10] human rights and their constitutional freedoms.

[00:33:12] KYLE: So what's your organization doing about Bill C-9 and the Combating Hate Act? Is there, like, a, a role you play? I- is it mostly [00:33:20] educational?

[00:33:20] Is there other things you're, um, doing?

[00:33:22] JOHN: We had one of our staff lawyers, uh, testified before a Senate committee against Bill C-9. We released a brief against Bill [00:33:30] C-9. We had, um, uh, uh, petition campaigns, letter-writing campaigns against Bill C-9. So we were active i- in a non-partisan way. [00:33:40] You know, we tell people, you contact, contact your MP regardless of whether he or she is Liberal, Conservative, Green, New Democrat, Bloc.

[00:33:49] Uh, [00:33:50] so we did succeed. Uh, Bill C-9, the Combating Hate Act, could have been even worse, uh, because it had a provision to get rid [00:34:00] of a review process that's now in place whereby, uh- Hate speech prosecutions can only go ahead if they've been [00:34:10] reviewed and approved by the attorney general, by the justice minister.

[00:34:14] And the first draft of Bill C-9 was gonna get rid of that requirement, and it would've really just opened it up [00:34:20] to every local policeman, crown prosecutor could start... You know, it, it would've unleashed a wave of, uh, criminal hate speech prosecutions across Canada. So they [00:34:30] kept that, uh, justice minister review process in place.

[00:34:35] KYLE: Hmm.

[00:34:36] JOHN: So, you know, it could've been worse.

[00:34:37] KYLE: Okay. And, and why do you [00:34:40] think this is being pushed in, in the government? Like, guys like Mark Miller and, and, uh, even the, the Bloc it seemed like wanted this provision in there of, like, the Bible's hate speech si- uh, um, provision being [00:34:50] taken out. Uh, w- what... Do you talk or mingle with these people at all?

[00:34:54] What- why are they pushing this?

[00:34:57] JOHN: They hate the free society. There are some people, [00:35:00] they, they, they hate the, uh, they hate freedom of speech. They think that they are so right about what they believe that they're entitled to silence other [00:35:10] people. And so when they pass hate speech, uh, they get the power to ban the speech that they hate, 'cause hate is, it's entirely subjective.

[00:35:19] [00:35:20] You and I could watch the same YouTube video or listen to the same podcast, and you could say, "That's really hateful." And I could say, "Nah, it's just an opinion." Or vice [00:35:30] versa. I could say it's really hateful, and you say, "No, it's just an expression of opinion." So it's very subjective. But I think, uh, the, these people, they are, uh, they are modern [00:35:40] fascists, and fascists are so high on their own opinions that they feel entitled to silence others.

[00:35:46] Yeah. Um, that, uh, so that, that, that's a [00:35:50] big part of it. A- and some of these people, they embrace a neo-Marxist, uh, equity diversity inclusion agenda. So instead of the old [00:36:00] Marxism where the workers have to vanquish and crush the capitalists, now the new Marxism is that the, uh, society is [00:36:10] perpetual war, men versus women, gay versus straight, light-skinned people versus dark-skinned people.

[00:36:15] And so you have a lot of politicians who embrace this neo-Marxist [00:36:20] equity diversity inclusion, and they are hostile to the free society. They don't like it when we have freedom of speech and religion and conscience and association. They want [00:36:30] everybody to get on board with this group conflict warfare where the, uh, justice will come about, in their opinion, when the [00:36:40] oppressed crushes the oppressor.

[00:36:42] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:36:43] JOHN: That's what they're after. So they don't like the free society. Yeah. They really don't.

[00:36:48] KYLE: Yeah. It's interesting. I just interviewed Stuart Parker, [00:36:50] who was, uh, uh, pretty liberal for f- the first 55 years of his life, and he said it's... A- and he's in that world, and he said it's a little bit like music- musical chairs.

[00:36:57] Um, you know, they're al- we're always canceling somebody. You just [00:37:00] don't know if you're gonna be the one next. But Bi- Bill C-34, whi- which is the, uh, uh, an, uh, a bill that's being proposed regarding, um, social [00:37:10] media, um, that you guys are actively working on. Describe what's i- in this bill, uh, uh, what's concerning about it

[00:37:17] JOHN: It's a very lengthy bill.

[00:37:18] It's over, um, [00:37:20] it, it, it's close to 100 pages long. Um, but I'll touch on a few points. The... It's called the Safe Social Media Act, and so the idea, uh, [00:37:30] which is a very good idea, is to make it harder for, uh, kids under 16 or teenagers under 16 to [00:37:40] access pornography and to access social media. And I, I think you and I and a lot of other people would agree that, that, that social media has a dark side [00:37:50] that contributes to depression and anxiety and, and in some cases, suicide in teenagers.

[00:37:56] Makes teenagers feel pretty crappy about [00:38:00] themselves. Uh, it alienates people from connecting face-to-face, which is a basic human need that we have. You know, if you don't connect face-to-face with people, [00:38:10] uh, in the long run, it was... it's, it's like not drinking water. You know, we need to be connected in person with, with other people.

[00:38:17] So, uh, there's a dark side to social [00:38:20] media. Now, the biggest problem with this bill is it creates this digital safety commission, which will have broad [00:38:30] powers, uh, powers to decide what the social serv- uh, social media ban is gonna apply to, whether it applies [00:38:40] to, uh, X or TikTok or Facebook or Instagram or, uh, Snapchat or Reddit, uh, how it's gonna work.

[00:38:48] All of that is left to [00:38:50] this new digital safety commission. So the bill, uh, creates this new government body called the Digital Safety Commission, which is gonna be a [00:39:00] government body that exercises real power, like the CRTC, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications, uh, Commission. And [00:39:10] yet, it's very vague as to what new powers, uh...

[00:39:14] It's not specific as, as to what the new powers will be.

[00:39:18] KYLE: Okay. And I know [00:39:20] Australia did this a couple years ago, where they banned social media under age of 16. Uh, um, did they... Is it pretty copy, a copycat of that bill? And did they have the same provisions of adding, uh, a, a [00:39:30] government, uh, uh, um, entity that regulates this?

[00:39:34] JOHN: Yes. Yes. Uh, Australia passed a law in December [00:39:40] 2025, uh, something similar to ban, uh, kids under 16 from accessing social media. There was a report issued by [00:39:50] an Australian government official in March of 2026, so three months later, and two-thirds of the kids were still [00:40:00] accessing social media anyways-

[00:40:03] KYLE: Mm ...

[00:40:03] JOHN: uh, either through a fake identity or a fake name, or there's...

[00:40:09] You know, [00:40:10] they just got around it. Which brings another problem, okay? So i- it's, it's pretty easy to get around these bans. Now, the only [00:40:20] foolproof way of really enforcing the ban is that everybody is required to prove their age when they use [00:40:30] the internet or when they use a social media. And this is where it gets really scary, right?

[00:40:35] Because, um, half-hearted measures are... Like in Australia, [00:40:40] two-thirds of the teenagers are still, uh, they're, they're just bypassing the law. In order for the law to have teeth, you need to have a [00:40:50] third party, um verify, verify your age. Yeah. So this is gonna lead to biometrics or facial [00:41:00] scans, or that, you know, I have to, uh, show my, my, my driver's license, uh, or my passport or my social insurance number, or I have [00:41:10] to provide some banking information.

[00:41:11] Um, the, the only way to really make this work is if [00:41:20] you, um, do, like, f- uh, mandatory identification for everybody and, [00:41:30] and at, to a high standard. Then this heads into other problems. Like, you can have a data breach, right? We had this, uh... There's so many media stories. Every six, nine, 12 [00:41:40] months, you get some hacker gets in there and posts the, you know, home addresses of 70,000 people online, or posts, you know, driver's license information.[00:41:50]

[00:41:50] So th- this is, this is the other problem with C-34, is it leads us to that situation where the government's gonna say, "Well, in order to protect the children, [00:42:00] everybody has to show, uh, proof of identity, prove who they are, prove that you're over 16." And now all of a sudden government has total [00:42:10] control, knows who's using the internet and how often and when, and what searches you're conducting.

[00:42:16] KYLE: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you don't think they know that already? [00:42:20]

[00:42:20] JOHN: Sorry?

[00:42:20] KYLE: You don't think they know that already?

[00:42:23] JOHN: The government... I, I think there are some companies that have a pretty good knowledge, [00:42:30] and I think y- you've probably experienced this yourself or you've heard. If you're, if you're with a friend and you spend the whole night talking about the Vancouver Canucks, and then next thing you turn on your [00:42:40] cellphone and there's an advertisement there, you can buy a Vancouver Canucks jersey or baseball cap or you know, a sweater or something, right?

[00:42:49] So, [00:42:50] uh, there's already, I think, corporations that are listening and, you know. But it's much more dangerous when [00:43:00] government has this information as opposed to private corporations. Yeah. But private corporations, you know, the Coca-Cola corporation has never forced me to buy a [00:43:10] bottle of Coke. It's my choice.

[00:43:11] Yeah. Whereas the government has forced me to do or not do all kinds of things. So there, there is a distinction between the two.

[00:43:17] KYLE: Yeah. And do you think this, um, [00:43:20] banning social media for kids under the age of 16 is actually just a cover for the other stuff that's in the bill? Because it sounds really nice, right?

[00:43:27] When you see a headline and you're like, "Oh, we're not gonna give social media to kids under [00:43:30] 16." Like, that, I, I'm all in for that too.

[00:43:34] JOHN: I don't wanna get into what other people's intentions are because it, it's really hard to know. [00:43:40] Uh, so I, you know, let's, let's give them the benefit of the doubt and let, let's assume that there is, uh, some sincerity there that to, to protect the, [00:43:50] uh, teens, uh, from...

[00:43:52] Although, you know, why 16? I mean, if it's that harmful, why don't we say no social media until you're 18? But I digress.

[00:43:59] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:43:59] JOHN: [00:44:00] Let's, let's give them the benefit of the doubt that they have good intentions. But you've probably heard the saying, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." And so we have to look at the contents of this [00:44:10] bill.

[00:44:10] This bill is a building block for the surveillance state where Canadians, it'll be like George Orwell's novel 1984. We won't have [00:44:20] any serious privacy anymore, and, uh, it, it's a totalitarian nightmare. This is the building block for it. If this bill gets passed, it'll take years [00:44:30] before we, you know, get to the totalitarian nightmare, but this is one of the pillars of it that they need, that governments need if they want [00:44:40] to have, uh, tight control over what we see and hear and read and think and believe.

[00:44:47] KYLE: Yeah. So you've been, you've [00:44:50] been doing this work for m- many years now, and I think you've consistently seen things getting worse when it comes to government overreach and the different things that are happening. H- how do you stay [00:45:00] positive? Uh, how do you stay, uh, uh, you know, in, in a right frame of mind and not let this, uh, affect you?

[00:45:05] Or how much does it affect you?

[00:45:08] JOHN: I, I, I get [00:45:10] saddened down and dec- discouraged from, from time to time. I'm, uh, I believe that slaves need... [00:45:20] Uh, tyrants need slaves, and slaves need tyrants. And what I mean by that is that, you know, if a tyrant wants to run the [00:45:30] country and treat the people like garbage, take away their rights and freedoms, control their lives, control what they read, what they think, uh, control what they [00:45:40] believe, a tyrant like that needs the cooperation of citizens.

[00:45:44] If citizens are truth-loving, justice-loving, freedom-loving, [00:45:50] responsible adults who think for themselves, it's very hard for a tyrant to control a free people. And so there is that [00:46:00] possibility of a defense just by virtue of a free people, uh, cannot be enslaved. And this is why our culture is so important, right?

[00:46:08] Do we have a culture [00:46:10] that appreciates human rights and fundamental freedoms? Do we have a culture that believes in limits on government power? [00:46:20] So I'm... I, I believe it, it's, it's not... We're not doomed to turn into a totalitarian slave tra- uh, slave [00:46:30] state. We're not doomed to have that kind of tyranny because there are a lot of people in Canada who cherish freedom, and the, the, the numbers of those of us who do, that can [00:46:40] grow through gradually educating our family members and our neighbors.

[00:46:45] KYLE: There's obviously, there's gotta be a point where that's not possible anymore. You think of China, y- y- you know, I would say [00:46:50] that's, from my perspective, a slave state. Uh, you could have a lot of people fighting against what they're doing, and they're gonna get squashed like a bug.

[00:46:59] JOHN: It's up to us [00:47:00] to make sure we don't get to that point.

[00:47:02] Uh, we do have a lot... Here's another positive thing. Okay, free speech has been under attack for decades, but compared to most [00:47:10] countries in the world, we have an awful lot of free speech in Canada today. We really do. Okay? And I'm not minimizing the dangers. Mm. I-

[00:47:16] KYLE: i-

[00:47:17] JOHN: it's up to us to exercise, [00:47:20] uh, our freedoms of expression, conscience, religion.

[00:47:24] Uh, our freedoms are like a muscle, right? If, if you spend the next 20 years of your life sitting [00:47:30] on the couch watching TV and you never exercise, your muscles are gonna get weaker and weaker and weaker. Right. Conversely, if you're walking and, you know, going to the gym, playing [00:47:40] some sports, your muscles are gonna stay strong.

[00:47:42] So in the same way, it's up to us to exercise our, uh, our, our constitutional freedoms the way that you would exercise a muscle. [00:47:50]

[00:47:50] KYLE: Fair enough. Yeah. Do you ever fear your own safety at all? Like, you're, you're, you're becoming more well-known and, and, and you're fighting for these issues. Uh, do you feel like there's a target on your back at all, [00:48:00] or y- you don't...

[00:48:00] Do, do you think much about that?

[00:48:02] JOHN: I, I had a very bad experience in, uh, December of 2022 where I was actually in jail for 23 [00:48:10] hours on some trumped up criminal charges, which the prosecutor later admitted in court that, that there's no basis for it. So I spent 23 hours in jail. [00:48:20] Uh, that was not pleasant. Um-

[00:48:22] KYLE: How, how did that happen?

[00:48:22] What, what, what were you arrested for?

[00:48:25] JOHN: I was, I was falsely accused of obstructing justice and [00:48:30] intimidating a m- a member of the judiciary. But I had not engaged in any criminal context. Uh, criminal conduct rather.

[00:48:37] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:48:37] JOHN: So that was, [00:48:40] um- Yeah. You know, it was, it was, it was during the Christmas holidays. I, I missed out on an important family gathering that's irreplaceable.

[00:48:49] KYLE: Yeah.

[00:48:49] JOHN: Uh, I [00:48:50] don't know if they chose that timing on purpose or not, but that, that's behind me. Uh, that's, you know, three and a half years ago now. And, uh, no, I'm, I'm [00:49:00] not, I'm not overly concerned about my own, uh, safety. Although- Yeah ... you know, we could get to a point where I [00:49:10] might be forced to run the Justice Center from outside of Canada.

[00:49:13] It's not impossible for, for that to happen.

[00:49:16] KYLE: Yeah. Yeah. Um, I asked you a, a [00:49:20] question during your event, um, about young people and the lack of engagement there seems to be in Canada, uh, uh, on young people on political issues. And, and your answer at the time was that, um, it's, [00:49:30] it's always been that way. When you ran, I think, for the Reform Party in the '90s, um, uh, they were all old people and, and someone mentioned to you that in the Conservative and Liberal Party they're all old [00:49:40] people as well, and, and that just they're, you know, over-represented and it's always gonna be that way.

[00:49:44] Um, but in the United States you have huge engagement among, um, young people on [00:49:50] campuses, Turning Point USA, uh, you know, Charlie Kirk's whole movement. It just seems there's way more engagement among, um, youth, you know, uh, uh, teens, a- and [00:50:00] people in their 20s than there is here i- in Canada. And so, uh, what would you say to that i- in term- um, compared to your...

[00:50:07] the first answer you gave, uh, that you think that's just a [00:50:10] result of, you know, where we a- where we are at?

[00:50:14] JOHN: I think there's lots of young people. I, I couldn't honestly tell you whether that was 5% [00:50:20] or, you know, 50%, 95%, but there, there's a lot of young people interested in political issues, and so they should be.

[00:50:27] I think where I was talking about the, the gray [00:50:30] hairs, I'm referring more narrowly to the local Conservative or Liberal or NDP riding association where y- [00:50:40] you have these provincial electoral districts, and every, every electoral district will have a local branch of the NDP, the Liberals, the [00:50:50] Conservatives, whatever.

[00:50:51] Those people typically are people in their 50s, 60s, and 70s because it's quite time-consuming. You have monthly meetings.

[00:50:58] KYLE: Mm-hmm.

[00:50:58] JOHN: Um, [00:51:00] uh, uh, uh, so... But, but I th- I think young people, uh, should be, and I think many are, um- I- i- interested [00:51:10] in, in political issues and in freedom and preserving Canada as a free society.

[00:51:15] We've, we d- we made a decision to go onto TikTok. We had quite a bit of debate about it 'cause [00:51:20] it's, you know, Chinese-owned, Chinese-controlled. Yeah. We, we had... A- after lots of internal debate, we decided, you know... So we are doing... The Justice Centre's on TikTok because we wanna, [00:51:30] uh, e- engage with, with young people.

[00:51:33] We're on Instagram. Uh, you know, we're, we're, we're, uh, we're, we're on social media- Yeah ... to, uh, to reach young [00:51:40] people. Because sooner or later, you know, the, the, the country and, and every province is gonna be governed by people who right now are in their 20s. [00:51:50]

[00:51:50] KYLE: Yeah, yeah. There, there has been a, a, a big spike in, in recent years in not just Canada, but i- i- it seems to be in, in, in the West, of, uh, Bible sales among young, uh, um, [00:52:00] people.

[00:52:00] Um, there seems to be a lot more engagement, uh, from young people on them going to church a- and way more than their, um, parents. Um, and seems, there seems to be like a, a search for [00:52:10] truth. And so people that are in, in that space, what do you think is... What advice would you give them if they're interested in politics and, a- and kind of the worlds that you're a part of, uh, [00:52:20] to be the most effective, uh, in that space?

[00:52:22] Um, is it, you know, getting involved in, in, in the local p- party? Is it, uh, starting an online, uh, account and just, you know, [00:52:30] giving your own opinions online? Like, what is... What, what would you say to someone who's like, "Hey, to be the most effective in, in, in change, this, this is what I would focus on"? [00:52:40]

[00:52:40] JOHN: First of all, get educated through independent media as well as government-funded.

[00:52:46] So no problem hearing what the [00:52:50] CBC has to say or its, you know, similar sisters, the, the Global, the CTV, all the government-funded media. By all means, listen to what they have to [00:53:00] say. However, uh, subscribe to, uh, the Rebel or Juno News or the Western Standard or the Epoch Times, and get a different [00:53:10] perspective as well, and you will be enriched.

[00:53:12] So that's the first thing is, is, uh, inform yourself. Secondly, do engage in the democratic process. [00:53:20] Uh, you should know the name of your own member of parliament. Uh, it's easy to look up online. You know, you can click, click, click, and you can type in your address, and you'll find out [00:53:30] the name of your MP. Uh, you know, it's not that hard.

[00:53:33] People should know the name of their local, uh, MLA. Yeah. Or in Ontario, MPP.

[00:53:39] KYLE: Yeah. [00:53:40]

[00:53:40] JOHN: And so be informed, uh, be active in the democratic process, and, uh, um... In particular, the Justice Center has a [00:53:50] newsletter sent out twice per month by email. Uh, people can go to our website, www.jccf.ca, Justice Center Constitutional Freedoms, jccf.ca.

[00:53:59] Subscribe to [00:54:00] our newsletter. So those would be some of the, the big steps, I think.

[00:54:03] KYLE: Fair enough. Okay. And what, and what is your guys' big focus, your organization's big focus in the coming years? Is, is there a [00:54:10] particular, um, uh, avenue you're really focused on, or is it more, just more broad in general?

[00:54:17] JOHN: Well, we're...

[00:54:19] Th- [00:54:20] this is a partial answer to a question you asked earlier. We're encouraged by results. Uh, we just got a court victory defending, uh, pro-life speech on Parliament Hill. [00:54:30] Uh, two or three years ago, there were some, uh, pro-life people showing photographs of what abortion does to an unborn baby, and these, the Parliamentary, uh, [00:54:40] Security Service came along and said, "Oh, yo, you can't, you can't do that on Parliament Hill.

[00:54:43] You can't show something that's offensive." And, um, so the, we, uh, we, we [00:54:50] challenged that in court. We got a favorable court ruling. Uh, I could go on. We've had quite a f- we have lots of losses, but we've had lots of victories as well. So it's just to be [00:55:00] engaged in the process to fight the battles. If you fight the battles, you're gonna win some of them.

[00:55:04] You might even win all of them. The worst thing to do is not to fight the battles. So, [00:55:10] um, in terms of our focus, we're gonna continue, uh, focusing on the freedoms of expression, conscience, religion, uh, peaceful assembly, association, [00:55:20] parental rights, uh, travel, mobility. Uh, so yeah, all the things we've been doing for 15 years, and we- we've got a, we've got a good team.

[00:55:29] [00:55:30] Uh, we've got close to a dozen lawyers, uh, from Br- all across Canada.

[00:55:36] KYLE: Yeah. Okay. Awesome. What, what's been the highlight of your career, [00:55:40] uh, i- i- since you started at, uh, the center in, uh, 15 years ago?

[00:55:44] JOHN: Oh, that's... I, on a personal level, I enjoyed, [00:55:50] uh, appearing before the Supreme Court of Canada to argue for racial equality in a challenge to race-based commercial fisheries in British Columbia.

[00:55:59] Uh, that, [00:56:00] that was certainly a highlight. Uh, organizationally, I apologize. I'd have to, I'd have to, uh, I'd have to go through all of [00:56:10] the various victories over the last 10, 15 years- Fair enough ... and then see, you know, whi- which one was, was, uh, was the most... Oh, I know. The, um- [00:56:20] Emergencies Act

[00:56:21] KYLE: Okay

[00:56:22] JOHN: Uh, the Justice Centre was involved in the court case where four Canad- we provided lawyers for four Canadians who [00:56:30] went to federal court to argue that Trudeau's invocation of the Emergencies Act and freezing bank accounts and using violence against peaceful [00:56:40] protesters, that that was illegal, and the constitutional rights and freedoms were violated.

[00:56:44] And we won at the trial level, and then this, uh... there were other organizations were also involved. [00:56:50] It wasn't just the Justice Centre, but still we were involved in this. And then the Federal Court of Appeal affirmed the trial decision. So that was, that was huge.

[00:56:58] KYLE: Okay. So the convictions of those [00:57:00] people that, uh, had their banks, uh, seized or Tamara Lynch, uh, you know, those, um, that really were convicted, will those be overturned now, uh, that, [00:57:10] um, that the Emergencies Act was, um, deemed to be inappropriate use?

[00:57:15] JOHN: Well, the, that particular case of, of the [00:57:20] wrongful use of the Emergencies Act, we are now waiting to hear whether the, uh, federal government's gonna succeed in persuading the Supreme Court to hear the case. [00:57:30] I'm hopeful that the Supreme Court will reject it and not hear it, but we'll have to see on, on that point.

[00:57:35] But certainly our victories are helpful to Canadians who [00:57:40] are, uh, in various court actions are, are suing governments over the harms that they suffered from the freezing of bank accounts. When you've got a court ruling that says that that was a [00:57:50] violation of a charter rate, then, uh, it can't but help civil actions that are in progress.

[00:57:59] KYLE: Yeah. [00:58:00] In the United States, um, the Supreme Court, uh, get, gets a lot of news and, and a lot of people, uh, if you're on the Supreme Court, uh, people often know your political views and your [00:58:10] historical voting record, uh, on different issues. And a lot of the different cases that are coming towards the Supreme Court can be predicted of what will li- likely happen, even though there is still a l- lot of [00:58:20] cases where there's a, a, um, split of conservative versus li- uh, liberal on, on American courts.

[00:58:24] I'm not as familiar with the, the Canadian Supreme Court, um, that way, but do you have hope for [00:58:30] different cases that come forward? I mean, I think of Trinity Western not being able to, uh, have a, a law school, for example. Um, uh, when you kinda see the makeup of the court, [00:58:40] i-i- and d- is their voting record just as public in Canada and being able to see, "Hey, I, I don't think this is actually gonna, you know, go well for us," or-

[00:58:49] JOHN: [00:58:50] The, uh, the Supreme Court of Canada today, uh, is dominated and, and for the last decade has been dominated by woke progressive, uh, [00:59:00] people who are not, uh, necessarily friends of the free society, people who believe, who embrace this neo-Marxist, uh, [00:59:10] ideology of equity, diversity, inclusion.

[00:59:12] We, we, we have Justice Sheila Martin. Um, she actually referred to a woman as, quote, "a person with a vagina." I [00:59:20] mean, this is how ideologically biased some of these judges are. The Trinity Western ruling, which came out in June of 2018, was absolutely [00:59:30] atrocious, uh, where the Supreme Court trampled into the ground the charter freedoms of a Christian university to have a law [00:59:40] school and to, uh, have its own Christian code of conduct.

[00:59:44] Um, it, it was, it was just a horrific decision. So it's important [00:59:50] to be active in the courts, but it's even more important to elect pro-freedom people to office so we don't get these bad [01:00:00] laws in the first place.

[01:00:01] KYLE: Yeah. Yeah. John, I, uh, appreciate your time today. Thank you for the work that you do, uh, and, uh, and, and fighting and not standing by on the sidelines.

[01:00:09] Uh, [01:00:10] it's appreciated. I, uh, definitely have learned a lot more, um, since getting to know about you and your organization, and, uh, so thank you. Um, and any closing thoughts for my listeners or a- any [01:00:20] spec- specific things you want, uh, people to focus on besides give your organization a whole whack load of money?

[01:00:25] JOHN: Well, yeah, we, we are funded entirely by voluntary donations. [01:00:30] I, I would say, uh, you know, be of good cheer because truth always triumphs over evil, and because justice prevails over injustice, and [01:00:40] because, uh, you know, truth will vanquish the lie. It's our responsibility to keep on fighting and, uh, knowing that we're gonna win in [01:00:50] the end.

[01:00:50] And so I, I appreciate the opportunity to be with you and with your viewers and listeners.

[01:00:55] KYLE: Awesome. Thank you. Appreciate it.

[01:00:57] JOHN: Thank you [01:01:00]

[01:01:00] KYLE: That's it. That's all.

[01:01:02] JOHN: Okay. That was fun. I would- If you wanna do it a- if you wanna do it again sometime, you know, in a week or a month or six [01:01:10] months or whatever, just, just let, um-

[01:01:12] KYLE: Awesome

[01:01:12] JOHN: let Julia know and, and, uh, I'd be happy to join you again.

[01:01:15] KYLE: Yeah, yeah. I'd, I'd be happy to have you back on again. And I'm sure ac- I

[01:01:19] appreciate you

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