Adoption, Fostering, and Hard Work

July 24, 2024

Kyle: [00:00:00] Welcome guys to a new series called The Briefcase in the Barn. It's me and Gary Bars here. Uh, don't know how often exactly we're gonna do this or how long the podcast is gonna be. We're thinking maybe every week, maybe every other week. I'm sure it's not gonna be exactly lined up 'cause me and Gary are, uh, trying to line up schedules and a little bit cuckoo.

So, um, yeah. So that's kinda what it's gonna be. So we're just gonna, uh, I'll just, uh. Ask Gary some questions. 'cause you guys probably don't know him as much as, uh, me on this show. Maybe not. I guess there's not that much of me that gets talked about on the other podcast, but,

Gary: uh, who's Gary Bars? Maybe through this people will get to know you better too.

Um, yeah, I'm an old man. Just turned 40, have, uh, five adopted children. And, uh. I'm married to Marie. She's a rockstar, wonderful lady. [00:01:00] And our oldest son is 10 and our youngest, uh, two kids are four. And it's been quite a journey. We're also foster parents, so we have, uh, one little foster boy right now who we've had living with us for a year.

I don't know how long that's gonna carry on for you Never do. And uh, yeah, so that's what we're doing right now. And then I, uh, am entrepreneurial. So I have, uh, a couple different businesses, uh, TT Hay and Cattle Sales. A lot of people know that business. I'm a realtor. Uh, I run an auction company with my cousin Johnny.

Uh, it's like farm equipment, et cetera. And, um, it's called Beekman Auctions. Beekman Auctions, yeah. Yep. We started in 2018 and my wife picked the name. It's Johnny and i's Mother's maiden name, Beekman. That's where it came from. And, uh, yeah, we're. Kindred spirits in a lot of ways. And then, uh, yeah, I have a dairy farm as well, so it was always my dream to start dairy farming.

And in 2011 I started farming with [00:02:00] 13 cows and I farm out in Abbotsford right now at Marie's, uh, family farm, basically. And you're an elder. And I'm an elder. I never, I never, I never announced that, uh, that's why I'm here. Never announced that public. That's so funny.

Kyle: Okay, so you're, uh, a busy guy and, um. We know each other through, uh, I reached out to you when, was it

Gary: two years ago?

Kyle: Yeah, it was a fall. Fall or spring of 2022 I think it was. So I reached out to Gary 'cause I, I, uh, Nicole and I were separated. I was in a super bad spot and I was like, I heard of Gary Bars. I knew he used to drink way too much and wasn't an alcoholic and now he was an elder. So I was like, okay, that's someone who's messed up like me.

He'll probably understand a little bit where I'm at. Lemme reach out to him. And so Gary got me connected with a program called Freedom Session, uh, that I started that year, quit halfway, didn't wanna do it, and they did it again the following year with, [00:03:00] and Gary was the leader of my group. So that's how I got to know him.

And, uh. It's been fun.

Gary: Yeah, it's, uh, I've been doing it since 2016 and basically started doing it for the same, same reasons you did? Uh, pretty messed up. Marriage was in a bad spot. Not being honest with my wife, I. Uh, watching pornography, doing all kinds of crap I shouldn't be doing, just not being fully transparent, feeling like a total fraud, gonna church on Sunday morning knowing that, uh, I just knew better.

I was raised well and, and knew the truth and just was stuck in a vicious cycle of addiction. And, uh, the devil loves secrets. He loves stuff. Hidden. Hidden, hidden secrets are the ticket. So when things, uh, are brought to light, they can eventually be dealt with. Uh, but in my case, yeah, it. Tick took my wife really calling me out and uh, I was already a week behind.

Freedom Sessions had already started. I didn't know too much about it, but I'd seen the promo video at our church and uh, yeah, a week later, my wife. Uh, had we had it [00:04:00] out and I think it was in 2016, maybe 2017. I forget now, but anyways. Yeah. And

Kyle: just everyone listening, freedom Sessions is a 28 week program.

And how, how would you describe it?

Gary: Oh, I don't even like the term program. Um, disciple, discipleship, healing Journey would probably be more accurate, but it's definitely is,

Kyle: I would call it just, would you call it a program? You want to

Gary: be happier and feel better. You should probably do it. Yeah. Or even just most people need it.

Right? I mean, you know, I always say like, if there's somebody in your life that you don't talk to in your family, um, uh, if there's any secrets that you have from your spouse, big indicator you need it. Uh, if, if, you know, yeah. If you feel tension in relationships with people, you need it. And most of us have some tension in some relationships

Kyle: if you're, if you're always going outta the bottle to feel better.

Gary: Yeah. Or if you're always on your phone, always in the real section on Instagram.

Kyle: That's not me. I have a lockbox. Not me either, but some other people I really care about. No, it, it definitely is a tendency to everyone. I mean that's why I had that lock. It's [00:05:00] keep blowing that lockbox up on my story. 'cause I think it's smart.

Anyways. Okay, so it's a 28 week program. Yeah. But you got, you joined in 2016. Yeah. And uh, yeah, I.

Gary: Since then, by the grace of

Kyle: God freedom. So what did, what did it do for you? Like it just, how did it, how did it fix

Gary: the, I mean, I no longer went on the internet and looked at stuff. I shouldn't be looking at how, how, like what, what was the process?

What's the journey? I mean, it is 12 steps. So those that are feno, uh, familiar with the Alcoholics Anonymous would have heard of the 12 steps, but it's not the 12 steps. I mean, it's completely Christ-centered. And uh, the guy who teaches, it's Ken Dick and he's a godly man and a great teacher, and very gifted, and it's, yeah, it's just beautiful teaching.

And so I don't know how to describe it really accurately in that sense of kind of what it does, but it basically makes you take, you know, all the, and I, and I don't like going into too de too much detail. A okay then

Kyle: hold it.

Gary: We want Just take it. Just take it. Yeah. You start explaining [00:06:00] the thing and people are, you know, especially if you're someone who needs it, you're for sure looking for an excuse not to take it, right?

Yeah. I mean that's just pretty typical. One of my favorite sayings is we have an intro night always, and uh, I always tell people, you know, those that quit. Needed it the most. I mean, as a general rule. And that's just, you know, it goes without saying you kind people. That's like the first year

Kyle: just to

Gary: bingo exhibit A.

But yeah, it's just, well 'cause it's hard, right? It is hard. It's hard to get better. Yeah. Uh, the only thing harder is staying sick. But I mean, unfortunately, it's, uh, the devil loves it when we stay sick. He loves it when we're, uh, we're doing the wrong things and we live, have secrets in our life. And yeah, I've had a lot of, a lot of that over the years.

Kyle: One of the things in coaching that I'm, I often talk about with the guys I work with is, what do you want? What do you actually want? And I think, um, we all, we often think of that in terms of short term rather than long term. And so like 20 years from now, what do you want your life to look like? Where do you want to be?

And I think if you de everyone describes that in a very positive way, a good relationship with your [00:07:00] kids, uh, well off, good marriage, whatever, all those in different ways. Um, so if you want that. What does that mean for the next hour or the next day? Because it's just super small amounts every single day that make you get to that spot.

It's not one big thing, like it's just consistency every single day and what do you want? But it's easy to forget it right in the moment. It's easy to forget at eight o'clock at night after you had a super long day and you're stressed out. Not to have one too many wobbly pops. Uh, but it's, I think, and those moments where you have to like train your brain to be like, Hey, what do I want?

What do I actually want here? Because we actually generally want good things or good, good feelings at the end of the day. Yeah. Uh, but in that they, we sabotage ourselves in the short term.

Gary: It's interesting too, even for myself and I, I don't know how, how it's been for you, but like my journey has been now where, okay, so you eradicate a lot of the.

The really obvious, blatantly bad things, but that doesn't mean you're even supposed, you're doing what you're supposed to [00:08:00] be doing. Yeah. In my case, it's been like, Hey, all of a sudden, you know, I'm doing a lot of good things, or we're trying to anyways, and it's like, well, no, maybe that's, maybe God doesn't want me out five, six nights a week when I got six kids at home and you know, so that's been my challenge.

Kyle: Yeah.

Gary: Because you do not get the accolades at home that you will get when you will help other people. Right. And so, I mean, it's embarrassing for me to say it, but it's. Been like, Hey, no, I need to be spending that time. And I have a lot of strong guys such as yourself and others that are like, Hey, they're not afraid to call me on it and say, Hey, what are you doing to look after your family?

And, and many guys from church. So I'm thankful for that. But yeah, it's like the little thing. It's hard to be disciplined in the little things I, you know, and if it's not one area, it's another.

Kyle: Yeah, I was think it's society. And I think also this is very much in the church circles as well. It's really easy to talk about.

What we don't want or what's bad or what's not good. Like if you look at politicians and what they say, they usually talk about what they don't want to do. And what they're not gonna do and how the other guy is bad and they talk about all the negatives and you look at like,

Gary: um, [00:09:00] the news rather than like a concrete plan on actually what they, what they do instead.

Or they go really grandiose but never actually articulate the actual specific steps how they're gonna get there. Yeah, yeah. Or the good thing.

Kyle: So we, so growing up we often hear from my parents what's bad, but we don't necessarily hear what's good. So we, we get told, don't. Um, eat with your hands, but you don't get told as much.

Eat with your knife and fork. And so what's emphasized constantly are the negatives and not the positives. You don't really know what to do. You're, I think some, we have to often, I think to teach, show the positive side of these things, like what to go do instead inside of the equation. Uh, instead of saying kids don't drink, like, go do good.

Like, and be specific about it and what that looks like. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. Or provided even, I mean, kids probably need it. Well, they need to see it in you. Yeah.

Gary: Yeah. To, to really do it. But don't be angry. I'm raging lunatic.

Kyle: I know. I, I added, uh, um, I la last week I was talking to [00:10:00] Malachi New seven and I'm like, how do you think our relationship's going?

Lately And he is like, uh, like him and you, you asked how you and you were. He came, he came downstairs like nine o'clock at night. Uh, couldn't sleep. So we were having, I dunno, we were eating food together or something like that. It wasn't cereal like you, but, um, and so I asked him, how's our relationship going?

He's like, ah, it's not for good. I'm like, why not? He's like, you're always talking about money. I'm like, oh, you know, you're always worried about money or something like that. And I'm like, oh. And he's like, yeah, you're just like, don't worry about it. And like worrying doesn't help you. He goes like, worrying doesn't help.

I'm like, where'd you get that from? He's like, you know, you taught me

Gary: worrying doesn't help. He goes,

Kyle: yeah, I'm learning coaching. But he's observing. Right? He's watching. He is watching. He's watching. So he was calling me up. Yeah. And I explained to him iron sharpens iron and how that works and, but is he ready to be ironed?

Wait, is there? Well, he, he, he, he, I explained the example to [00:11:00] him and he, and he said afterwards, he's like, he's like, oh, so I was sharpening you.

Oh man. So what's it on the, um, um, uh, the kids' side adopted kids. How, how did that.

Gary: Yeah. So that in of itself has been a real journey in our life. Um, I mean, most people don't know this, but when I was in my early twenties, I was a foster dad, single foster dad. Bizarre, bizarre experience. Probably 22, 23 years old.

And, um,

Kyle: and you had just become, become sober at, yeah. Three

Gary: years before that or something. I would start engraving sober. Yeah. Uh, total workaholic. A lot of other things going on. Um, anyways, yeah, I, uh, lot of gambling. Used to play a lot of poker. Casino banned myself from the casino at one point in BC so then I would drive across the border and go play down in the US that night.

Wow. Crazy. Uh, anyways, [00:12:00] yeah. So at that, around that time, and I don't know exactly when it was, but it was in that, in that, uh, timeframe in my early twenties, I had a friend from aa, uh, 'cause I went to AA when I quit drinking when I was 19. Probably shouldn't have said that. I don't normally announce it. I went to a, but anyways, I, it's called Alcoholics Anonymous for a reason.

And not because, by the way, not 'cause I'm ashamed that I went to aa, but more because to protect the name of aa. So when people go off the rails and drink. It's, you know, it's, it's not healthy. If some public figure who is super popular in our culture, I mean, for me it doesn't matter. I'm nobody. But, you know, if there's some celebrity, they're announcing that they went to aa, then they fall off the wagon, they start drinking and go off the rails.

Oh, really? It just makes, that's actually a rule. That's why it's, it hits totally a rule. Oh yeah. Do not publicly talk about the fact that you go to a, okay, so we don't know if you actually went or not. No, we do not know. And. You are totally allowed to tell people you went to. It's, it's a public thing, like it's obvious.

Oh, okay. Obvious. You're a public figure. It's, yeah. You would just be like, Hey, you're not announcing it, you're not putting it in print. Right. I mean, yeah. So when

Kyle: you stop saying it, [00:13:00] I'll know that you think quite highly of yourself

Gary: when there's, when more than six people watch this. We'll, we'll edit it.

Okay. That's where I'm going with this. But anyways, started fostering because a guy from AA who I really respected, fostered, and uh, so I signed up to fo be a foster dad, and I had a boy live with me. And, um, in your early twenties? Yeah. He was 12. I. Wow. So he was only 10 years younger than me and uh, I had a buddy of mine, uh, stayed at my house that night 'cause I was milking nights.

I was kind of milking like 11. I did a lot of relief milking in my early twenties in Chillax. Yeah. Milk milked from 11 to one. And then I milked another job from three to five. And then I ended up doing unloading hay all day by hand. 'cause I used to unload hay every day. Semi loads of hay, small bales. And I basically didn't sleep.

It wasn't healthy. And I think three or four months in, I don't know how long. I went to the ministry that was dealing with situation and said, Hey, I can't carry on like this. So the boy was removed from my home and that was the end of that fostering experience was pretty traumatic for me. And it was traumatic, obviously for him.

It was really sad. It was something that I carried a lot of guilt for, for a lot of years. And, uh, [00:14:00] yeah, had to, had to ask for forgiveness for that. I just felt like I caused one more wound in this young boy's life. Great kid. Very interesting. As an aside, um, in the last year, I don't know if I told you this already, but.

He reached out to me on Facebook, I'd been kind of praying about it. I was like, wow. So I had been dialoguing with this guy and of course he's a grown man now 'cause he's 10 years younger than me. So it's pretty cool. And very encouraging. And very forgiving. And I've been able to say, sorry, obviously in person he has met up.

No, he lives quite far north northern bc but we've been chatting on Facebook. Very cool. He calls me on Facebook, so that's really cool, really special. And um, so that's back when I was 23 and then Marie and I get married, I'm 27. And we can't have kids. And um. Super, super hard, super hard on our marriage.

Did some level of fertility treatments. IUI, not in vitro just this thing before that won't get into more description 'cause I get in trouble, right? If I start talking, if I, when, as soon as I start comparing it to like breeding [00:15:00] cows, I get in trouble. Right? Yeah, it makes sense. But I'm a farmer and so everything gets back to the barn.

Kyle: Briefcase in the barn,

Gary: briefcase in the barn. But anyways, I digress. So anyways, so at that point, uh, we're trying to have kids can't have kids. And then, uh, I had always probably felt the call and my wife could, could, could say yes or no. But I think I was always kind of quickly leaning towards, hey, we should maybe adopt or at least look into it or foster.

And it took Maria quite a while to get there. Um, but yeah. Over time. She, she did fully come there, obviously to that conclusion, probably about three years in. And, uh, we started working on it and we signed up to be adopt privately in bc, which is quite a process. And you're basically, as a general rule, and of course everything you don't wanna be careful with, with blanket statements.

But as a general rule, you, uh. Get on a list and people pick you and they pick you from a book. You know, so if a lady of, of some age, whatever age, people always think, oh, it's a young mom. No. It's like, it's all walks of life and all different reasons and everybody has a [00:16:00] reason and a lot of them are very valid reasons.

In our culture, nobody thinks that way because we're Dutch and we, you know, we just pull up our bootstraps. We do things, we have good family, we have great church community, so. It's very easy to be judgmental when obviously when you're not in that spot. But I mean, the stories that I heard, no one heard one wants to put

Kyle: their kid up for adoption.

Gary: No. And even, I guess, yeah, like it's not an easy

Kyle: computer. If there's shame. If there's shame around it and you don't like it and you wanna hide it, then it's something you probably don't wanna do. But you're in a position where you feel like you have to Yeah,

Gary: yeah, yeah. Or, or maybe even just. And I don't, you know, I don't wanna not, they're saying there's not people out there, I'm not saying a specific example, but I'm just saying there are people, couples that are like, Hey, we're just not in a spot to look at this kid.

Or we're just, yeah, like somebody could give this kid way better life, give this child a better life, or whatever. Or if they think a better life. I mean, it's complicated. It's complicated. Kids need their parents and I would argue they even need their bio parents. So on that our kids, as many [00:17:00] as Ken, have relationships with their, with their birth parents and it's a beautiful thing.

And their birth, how many kids, parents are like, how many kids

Kyle: in BC like just a western country, uh, province are, or in Canada are being put up for adoption?

Gary: Like privately? 'cause it's very big difference. So like we adopted our first son privately. Okay. And then our second daughter, Hannah, we adopted from Japan privately, which is another very unique experience.

Okay. I thought like kids

Kyle: being put up for adoption in Canada

Gary: as infants. Or by, because it's different because our other kids were adopted through the ministry. And that's not by choice. Right? I mean, those are situations where these kids are in foster homes, okay. We're fostering and their parents are struggling and, and, and eventually it's just obvious that they're not returning home to their, their birth parents.

And then at that point, I guess,

Kyle: I guess there's two, well, you have the kids that are being taken from their homes Yes. And being put into foster homes. Yes. That might go back. Yes. But I'm wondering about the families that are saying. Uh, we want someone to adopt our son. How is that? Yeah,

Gary: it's not a large amount, but like, I don't wanna say the number 'cause I'd say the wrong [00:18:00] number, but it's, it's not a large amount, like on the list.

I, I, I wanna say in BC it might be 30 to fif 20 to 50 a year, and I, and I could be wrong, so I, it's super low because I was,

Kyle: I heard a presentation last week about Safe Families, the organization. Yeah. One of my favorite

Gary: organizations. Oh yeah, yeah. I was blown away. Top.

Kyle: But um, hopefully get that lady on the show.

Okay. But, uh, uh, she said in a presentation there was almost 2 million Canadians living in poverty. Mm-hmm. Right now.

Gary: Yeah. So I guess the thing, and

Kyle: because

Gary: I'm assuming a lot of kids can have a great life in poverty. Yeah. Fair. Like, like, and I go back to my statement earlier, I think, and that this is where like we don't have a savior complex in our house, like.

You know, our house. Like, you know me like, yeah, yeah. There's no saving happening from dad here. Right? Yeah. Like, you know, I'm a mediocre father probably at bat. So I, I guess what I mean by that is like, you know, even if I look at our kids, like their parents love them and they, [00:19:00] yeah. They just, were not in a state, and so it's, it's heavy.

It's hard, but it's also beautiful and it's been amazing for our family. Our kids understand it. We talk about it. I mean, obviously even if you look at the Bible. There's a lot of comparables. There's, you know, the idea we're adopted. We're adopted. Right. Thankfully, we definitely needed that savage. Uh, yeah.

I mean, we're just similar to our kids. We'll need to be adopted, right? Yeah. On that front. Everyone does. That's the point. Everybody does. That is the point. So I think, yeah, it's something that's talked about a lot in our home and I, and for us it was like a journey we've been on and we don't, we don't have the answers.

Sometimes I think, oh man, have we prayed about enough? Have we talked about it enough? Have we, you know, have we, but at the end of the day, we're just trying to do the right thing and, uh, we're being challenged and. The beautiful thing is, and you know when you're in tight spot in life where you're struggling, you realize how beautiful people are.

Like we've had a, like it is literally a village and you talk about safe families. Like safe families is basically keeping, correct me if I'm [00:20:00] wrong, you just met with them, but they're basically keeping kids out of foster care. That is the goal. Right? Before they need to go, before they need to go foster.

Like give 'em

Kyle: a hand.

Gary: Yeah. And because, and people don't understand this, but if you called the Ministry of Children and Families today and you were a struggling person with your children, single mom or dad, and you. You know, really struggling. Like unless you are abusing or brutally neglecting your kids, they are not taking your kids away and they could hardly help you.

They don't really have the reason. Yeah. Like they're there, they're firefighters, right? I mean, when there's a problem, they, yeah, they step in to protect kids. So, um, safe families does it in a loving way and they're, yeah, it'd be beautiful if you got Jen Kamash or some, somebody from their on, but they're basically, they have teams of people from across the lower mainland from all different churches that are helping and yeah, we're, we're, we're involved in that as well.

And. In little ways that we can be. And so in our house it's like, yeah, we're all adopted, all the kids are adopted. I always think, you know, the Lord, I don't know if he has a sense of humor. I think he does, but it's, he's given us humor anyways and it's like, Hey, are all of a sudden are we gonna have a baby yet?

Like, that would be bizarre. Right? But that would be bizarre. Or not. It's, it's happened before or not it's happened before, [00:21:00] so, but it might not happen. I could, I could say a note to that too, right? Like, you know, this is another thing. You know how it is when people like. Like if somebody can't have kids, like the less you say is better as a general rule.

Yeah, I believe that. I mean, I'll just leave it, but do,

Kyle: but, but I, what, what I do know, I think this is true. Do ask about it and listen.

Gary: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't make it awkward. Don't be like, well, we can't talk about it. But don't start giving advice. Don't, don't say pithy sayings like, you know, if you just relax, you'll get pregnant.

People say something inappropriate People. Yeah. People say crazy things. People say crazy. And the reason they do, and I've always taught, told my wife this, most people, well, first of all, people do not like being uncomfortable like you And I like being uncomfortable and we'll allowed. Talk about awkward things, right?

Yeah. But most people don't. They just want problems to go away. It's the same reason where if you're in the church lobby or at some event and you ask someone how they were doing, you know, and they started telling you how they were doing and it was horrible, you would just be, most people would just be like, yeah, yeah.

Short circuiting. Right? It's really fun

Kyle: at the grocery store to do that when they ask you like, how's your, how's your day today, sir? It is. And they're like, and you start unload. Voting. [00:22:00]

Gary: She won't

Kyle: ask and ask six people. No, she never ask again. They don't actually care or he won't. This is a cultural thing too, though.

I have family from Holland that comes over here and we'll be at the grocery store together buying some stuff and uh, lady will ask me, how's your date today? Good. I'm like, you's good and move on? And they're like, why? Why did you ask? That was just bs. Yeah. They're like, why'd you ask? I'm like, I don't know.

She's like, do you care about her date? No. No. Like, I guess not really. She's, no. Why'd you ask? And I'm like. Huh? We just, well, I'm like, what do you guys do? They're like, we just say hi,

Gary: but you and I we care a little bit. Or I, I say, yeah, that's fair. I would say that as a gen, I mean, I, now I'll test myself and when I ask next time, I'll be like, do I actually care about this person?

I think it has to be intentional.

Kyle: We say that phrase. Just to open almost every conversation.

Gary: We do. We do. We do every, uh, even today on the phone. Random people. Yeah. It's the banker. Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle: We should care.

Gary: He cares that I'm paying back all I do. I, I have a

Kyle: friend, um, Peter Hetro, um, I met him through desire and by ministry.

He's John Peppers ministry, [00:23:00] and they've been super good to me and Nicole the last three, four years and, and really, uh, like walked with us and, um, we're there when Grace died, but this guy is like. When he walks around and he meets somebody. Like if it's the waitress at like, you're out for lunch or at the grocery store, whatever, there's, and he like, he looks you in the eye and he sees you and he, he asks for your name and he remembers.

And like he actually cares in prison. Like he's just like, he is wild. Like I don't have that kind of energy, uh, at all. But I think more of like that kind of heart or focus Yeah. Focus. You could be really focused. Yeah.

Gary: I don't think you and I are that focused. I'm not that focused. Speak for myself. Depends.

Yeah. Hyperfocused sometimes on really what thinks. Yeah. Fair enough. Yeah, I, I might put

Kyle: that under. Focus, hyper focused. Yeah. So, huh. Okay. So you got lots of adopted kids and

Gary: Yeah. How do you view of people that have adopted kids?

Kyle: Well, actually that, that's a good, uh, question. 'cause I was gonna say, I asked you a couple months ago, um, I thought to myself, how do I [00:24:00] know I'm not supposed to adopt kids or do foster care?

Mm-hmm. I never even crossed my mind before. Mm-hmm.

Gary: Uh, most people assume they're not supposed to, and that's not accurate. And most people assume that people have adopted or fostering are special people and that's not true. Okay. That really kindles my wife's, I'm speaking for my wife now. Yeah. Which is dangerous.

But is dangerous. It kindles my wrath. Not as much 'cause I just, I can see why people do it. Say it, but it, there's also good for you. They say good for you. Or they say, oh wow, I could never do that. I'm like, I can't do it either. Yeah. Like nobody could do it. Like things that are hard, like, like you said earlier.

Yeah. Like it's just little things, little steps and you get a lot of help. Okay. But there is a lot of people that just don't even

Kyle: consider it or think about it. Is that true? I didn't never. Not once. Okay. I did. No, that's not true. Uh, like maybe like once a year, like briefly, but it's not like, did your wife think about it?

Mm, small amount. But I mean, we had, we, we were so busy with all the other things that it wasn't [00:25:00] like, and you almost know, I mean, I didn't, I haven't known you for longer than two or three years really? So I didn't really, like, almost no one our church adopted, almost no one in our church fostered. I'm not saying that's a good thing.

I'm just saying that that's like, so what I saw around me wasn't people doing it. So. Yeah. How do you, how would you say if someone's listening and they're like, huh? Like, how do I,

Gary: how do I not know? Well, you investigate, so practically you would investigate. Right? And see what it looks like. See if it is a fit.

And also, yeah, you'd pray about it and you'd seek wise counsel just like you would with anything that you might feel like you're called to do. And to be fair, to some extent, it's a calling. And, you know, I had a talk with a guy from our church, quite a few people who foster, uh, there at Central and, and adopt have adopted for sure, but even quite a few foster parents.

And you know, the guy was saying, well, like, you know, most people aren't cut out for it anyways. But yeah, and, and to some extent for certain children that may be true, but like, you know, I think it's fair to say, and I mean your kids are relatively young, but just looking back at my. Childhood and how I was as a kid, [00:26:00] which was horrible.

Like, you know, I'm, I'm sure my parents didn't feel cut out to, uh, parent me, uh, either at times Right. And punted out of the house and deservedly so. It's hard work. It's hard work. And there's no manual and there's no, and every child's different. And the reality is, is that some people are amazing parents since their kids.

You know, end up in jail like me and other pe their kids are, parents are pretty easy going and their kids just are, do really well. So, I mean, and, and I think the point of that is, is that nobody gets to take credit for any of it. Yeah. As parents, that's, you know, and so it's the same thing for fostering and adopting.

I think that Wait, wait, wait. You can't take any credit. As a parent, I would want to be really careful taking credit. You don't wanna own, you don't wanna own the shortcomings, you don't need to take the credit. I mean, that's fair. Yeah. By the grace of God, there go I, and I think that. Back to the adopting thing.

Like,

Kyle: but, but I, I guess the, the reason I think we should

Gary: do our best to be your best. Yeah. We should do our best at everything. Yeah. Okay. But it's not a lot of people. But the outcome is, is the outcome is irrelevant. It's about being faithful and it's about. [00:27:00] Doing, doing the right thing. Yeah. Being faithful.

That's right. Just do the right thing. Go do the right thing. Yeah. And then leave the rest. And leave the rest. You know? And I think that's right. It's back to Freedom Sessions. It's like, you know, you lead a group like I do. Well, how the group turns out, I mean, obviously I could do a better job. I've, I've admitted my shortcomings to you, but as a general rule, you don't wear how the people do in the group.

Yeah. I mean, that's their journey and they're, and we don't even know maybe, I think that's where it's like. You talk about God's plan for people's life, for the sovereignty of God, it's like, hey, he knows it. But it's tempting. I mean like it's, it's interesting you say this. Yeah. Because we're on the human being tour.

Exactly. And only see it at our six foot level, right? Yeah. Like we don't

Kyle: see everything in the future and, but when someone talks about adoption and says, oh, I could never do that. Oh, that must be really hard. That's like whatever. Yeah. We're actually okay with working really hard. Like our community is okay with working super, super hard, but it's usually on things that make them feel good or benefit them.

Yeah, those are the stuff that, that we work hard, really hard at. We're not actually that hard of workers when it comes to the things that, well, not emotional stuff. Not emotional stuff stuff, but also like this, like adopting, like [00:28:00] we all have the horsepower. To do these things if we have the horsepower to work 70 hours a week on our own business.

Gary: Dutch people even, and I, and we're now, we're doing blanket statements, which is so fair, but like in, in our, where we grew up anyways, or you know, if you went to that kind of culture, like super helpful, very like, even like really proud, but but don't wanna step too much out of their own comfort zone.

Right. And now that is totally changing right now. But I would say like, especially when we were growing up, like if you go back to the nineties, let's say, like it was just very closed, right? And, uh. What we do is messy, you know, and you're meeting people that you normally wouldn't hang out with and you're doing things you wouldn't normally do.

Uh, but that's a beautiful thing. And then we get sharpened and we get challenged. And I think that, um, I always, and this, I mean, I dunno if this is the right way to say it, but I always feel in my heart like. Whenever, whether it be adopting or anything awkward or challenging or picking up a hitchhiker or whatever, you know, if I'm not doing it, who is?

And that's who is like, obviously I'm expecting someone else to do it. So anytime [00:29:00] you say no to something. Yeah. And granted some things we're not supposed to do. And I think that's been my challenge. It's like, Hey, I don't have to do everything. My wife would say like, you know, there's, you know, just do what you're called to do and that's it.

And so we've been called to adopt. It's been a beautiful thing for our family and it's been. We've seen it in other people that we just respect so much. Right. Like their character and, and who they are. And it's just an amazing thing. You just think like, and yeah, it's messy and it is hard, uh, but all things that are amazing are hard.

That's just the way life is. So,

Kyle: and yeah, and it's all, it's all hard to work. Like if you want to have a good business or good career, it's great. It's hard work. It's a good, but also if you wanna have a good marriage. It's hard work. Is it hard? I would say it is. Uh, I would say it is. If you wanna be really good and like own your shit, and yeah, you gotta, you gotta grind.

Try harder. But that pays off the hard work. That does pay off. And, but I think it's also in other areas, like you've want a good relationship with your kids. It's hard work. Hard work is uncomfortable.

Gary: Hard to focus. Yeah.

Kyle: [00:30:00] Yeah. And those things like that. But like, I think it's more about like talking about again, what do you want?

If you actually want a good relationship with your kids, well, do you want it more than your work? Like, what do you want more? Yeah. Because you're gonna get what you want. You're gonna get where you put the time in. Wherever you're putting the time in, you're gonna get more of that.

Gary: Yeah. And that's probably, I mean, we've, we've had sermons on it, but I mean, that's really what you tell what is important, right?

You look at two things, you look at where your time's spent, and you look at where your money goes. Us, right? Yeah. And if you look at someone's bank account and you look at their calendar, you should bas you can basically see what's important to 'em, right? Yeah. And so when I say, Hey, I'm a family man and I care about my wife and kids and my whole calendar's full of helping others or working and making money, well yeah, it's probably not lining up.

So that's been my, the real conviction in the, in the last year anyways. But

Kyle: we all have this problem with our phones, tv, snacks we want to put away. And we don't always have the self-control. For me, its especially my phone. I'm distracted, but I wanna be with my kids. And so I came across this product from Kitchen Safe.

It's called a lockbox, and it's been, uh, a huge lifesaver for me. How it works is I'll just grab my phone, [00:31:00] put it in here, TV remote. Maybe it's something else. Maybe it's like snacks. Um, soda's in here. Put the lid on and then I can set it to however many hours I want. But I can just set the amount of time on here by just turning this wheel, hit it down, gives me five seconds to change my mind.

But after that, it locks. And, uh, then you can't get it out anymore. Really love it. If you want one, there's a link in the description of my, uh, Instagram or you can get there, um, through my website. Curiously Curious co. Super great product. Highly recommend it. Lemme know what we think. Okay, so we're doing this.

Uh, the, now you know who Gary is a little bit more. I'm sure more will come out if, uh, when we keep doing this. Um, but I wanna talk a little bit about the topics, the type of topics we can cover in this new series. So you said at the start, before we started recording, what you like talking about, which was what?

Gary: Oh. Anything to do with, uh, like the mini ministry stuff that we've talked about, whether it be save families or adopting or, uh. [00:32:00] Yeah, I mean, that type of stuff. I, I like economics, like I'm weird. I read macroeconomics, I listen to po. Lots of podcasts about it.

Kyle: What's the last macroeconomics thing that you learned?

Gary: I listen to stuff like, you know, podcasts, like the Loony Hour, and I learn about, you know, monetary policy and I like, listen, you know, I'll read, you know. The, yeah, I'll just read financial statements from companies and stuff like that. Um, I'm not super knowledgeable, but of course the more you read, the more you learn.

Yeah. And um, and I feel like in my life. You know, you don't get to be a profit with economics, but you can see general trends. You can see, you know, and even now we're, we're heading into hard times and it's like, hey, we've had a long, long run of, you know, some prosperity with, and some people wouldn't feel that way, but as a general rule, right?

Propped up prosperity, propped up prosperity by the printing of money, low interest rates, and now the chickens have finally come home to roost and. You know, central banks are, you know, and there again, I mean now we've really veered off in two different topic, talking about central banks from, from adopting [00:33:00] kids.

But, well, I like,

Kyle: yeah, the rest of the show, different topics. Okay. Those types

Gary: of things. Right. Yeah. I mean that's, you know, and, and even real estate, like I love real estate. I love buying and selling real estate. I've owned a lot of real estate in different provinces and, uh. But it's interesting 'cause you know, it's like you said earlier, it doesn't really matter.

You know, like your sign says he is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. Jim Elliot great. Saying

Kyle: Outta frame,

Gary: the guy was a beauty. I was the fellow who went, I. To be a missionary in a foreign country and the people killed him, right? Yeah. His first day there. His first day there and then his wife went back.

I think his wife went back and to preach to those people and they became Christians. Yeah. Okay. I think I started reading a book by her, is it Elizabeth Elliot?

Kyle: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just died a couple years ago. Okay. Wow. Yeah. He gave everything, the things that didn't matter and gained, didn't lose what he could never lose.

Yeah. Beautiful. I think that's the, um, I think, uh, the thing that will, um, I, [00:34:00] I'm excited to do on this pod, this series of the podcast is as we talk through different topics, if it's microeconomics or politics or whatever those things, it is, it's like the foundation. The foundation is our faith. In Christ, or it should be, uh, um, I don't know if it all is often always, uh, isn't, but you know, like it's not a, someone asked me the other day, what, what does it mean to be a Christian coach?

I'm like, I'm not really a Christian coach. I'm just a coach. That's a Christian. Yeah, that's a Christian. Uh, I, I have a belief set of what I operate. I have a, of a manual that I. I try to do the

Gary: world through. So how do you feel in your circle when you're talking to random people? Probably a lot of them, not Christians.

Like how do you feel about telling people you're a Christian or even just in general, even in our community, just, you know, Hey, I'm a Christian. Like, you know, obviously we shouldn't be secretive about our faith, but I always. You know, often I get into the head space of like, Hey, I know my shortcomings right.

I'm not that, I'm totally, I could be way more self-aware, but I, you know, like through by iron and sharpening iron, right? Like, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm aware of kind of, um, some of my [00:35:00] shortcomings, like how do you, how do you deal with that? Where it's like, Hey, I. Do you ever have it where you're like me and I'm like, well, yeah.

I don't really wanna talk too loudly about it. Not that I'm like thinking I'm gonna be a real shyte or something, but I'm just so sensitive to the fact of like, Hey, I'm a witness, and like, man, am I a bad witness? Like, do you have that or not? Not to,

Kyle: yeah. Yeah. Well, growing up I had a ton of shame around it.

Okay. Because what I saw around me was people I shame around it. Like I, what I, the, the people that I was around growing up and the community I was around, um, never really engaged publicly. About Christianity with the public. We would talk about it in the church setting, but we'd never talk about it in the public setting.

And so I naturally saw that. So I was uncomfortable with that. I felt shame around it. There was no like, so I grew up that that way. And then when I, um, I. Uh, before I was a Christian, before 21, I didn't really care about it, didn't talk about it that much. When I became a Christian, I talked about it a lot more, but then I started and I still have a lot of sin in my [00:36:00] life, a lot of things that we shouldn't have been doing.

And so then you feel like a fraud, and then so then you feel a ton of resistance to talk about it. Um, because you know, you're full of shit. You know, you're living a, a double life. And then so then you really don't start talking about it, which I also think Satan uses. 'cause everyone still sins. Everybody sins.

Yeah. Uh, um, and the point of Christianity is not that we're good, it's that we're bad and that's why we need Jesus. And we need to be forgiven. Yeah. It's not a proclamation. You're a good guy. It's a proclamation. You're a bad guy in need of a big savior.

Gary: Um, yeah. I mean, we did grow up in a culture, I guess, where a lot of it is still outward judging, right?

Like just a lot of is Yeah. You know, and maybe I'm still dealing with that where it's just like, Hey, I know what people around me are kind of looking and looking for any little sign of Oh wow.

Kyle: Yeah. You

Gary: know, but now, so how I have it now, like

Kyle: now, like with a coaching company I have and stuff like that, I've more of an online presence than ever and that'll only keep, um, going like, I'm just gonna probably.

Putting more and more content out [00:37:00] and, um, yeah, I do think about it. I'm just like, what if, you know, like I, um, I know my past, you know, I know how capable I am of doing things I shouldn't be doing. Yeah. Like, um, and so I don't trust myself necessarily to be like, oh, I'm never gonna like be, I'm always gonna be perfect for the rest of my life now.

Like, I'm just like, I'm not. So yeah, I guess that's in the back of my mind a little bit, but I.

Gary: I often think that reaching, which I think is healthy, I think any man that thinks he's beyond ever doing anything. It's dangerous. Like I think we all need, I think everybody needs to be held accountable. I would question, I'd be very skeptical of any guy that said nobody's ever holding him accountable.

I just don't think that's healthy. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Like depending on the person, on personality, obviously some people are way more prone to, some people just do the right thing. 'cause that's just, they're just wired that way. And they do a lot. They're, I talked to a guy, I talked

Kyle: to a guy today about it actually, and I'm like, as you walk with God going and he's like, ah, not very good.

And I'm like, he wasn't talking to people. And he wasn't spending time in his word and not really praying much, but especially wasn't talking to people because if you're telling someone every [00:38:00] week you're cold because you're not doing certain things and it's

Gary: not even 'cause they're gonna call you to account, it's literally you.

You talk yourself out of it. It's no different than when you go to advice on a lot of things. It's amazing. Most people don't have to say much and you just talk out loud. You're like, start hearing yourself. You're like, well that is pretty crazy idea. I mean, that's coaching. I never give my

Kyle: opinion or that's not true.

I find that hard to believe rarely. I try very hard not giving mean you get the most. When the person explains themself what they want to go do and themselves, and then you just empower them to do that. Yeah.

Gary: Do they have the aha moment or do you have to provide it? No. If you

Kyle: provide the aha moment, it's not an aha moment.

I Okay. Yeah. I mean, like it's just asking questions. Yeah. Digging, getting clarity. Yeah. Yeah. Getting clarity, but it's getting them where they want to go. Right, like if, if, if it's, if it's me getting them work. 'cause obviously

Gary: anybody that signs up for coaching or they're, they're essentially wanting something to change.

They're wanting more, they're wanting more from themselves. They're [00:39:00] expecting their behavior to, they want their behavior to change or they just want their life to be somewhat better. They're. Is it mostly business or is it just personal or a bit of both or?

Kyle: Yeah, so I've, I've, I've coached only business owners so far, and one NHL player.

Mm-hmm. Um, it's usually business 'cause I just love business and have e experience in it. But if you're dealing with someone's business, you're also dealing with their life. Right. They're They're all intertwined.

Gary: Yeah. They are intertwined. And so Show me a guy that's struggling at home with his wife and I'll tell you that's someone that watch out for them in business.

Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle: Yeah, that's fair. It's like, so, so it's, it's all, uh, intertwined, but yeah, it's usually, um, you know, it's not even necessarily that something's going bad. It often things can just be way better. Like if you're constantly, consistently getting stressed out about something, like, what if that wasn't there?

Like that would be a win. Right? Freedom. Yeah. So like there's just really practical things often that you can just get outta the way to make your life better. Like apart from spirituality, and like one of my clients said to me a couple of weeks ago, um, he's not a Christian. He's like, I'm [00:40:00] really happy that you haven't brought that into our coaching calls.

And I'm like,

Gary: do you feel you can really help someone Then even without that Yeah. You do. Okay.

Kyle: Yeah. I mean, I think it's, it's like a doctor fixing your broken arm. Right. Like if you, if you go to the, the hospital, 'cause you broke your arm, you, you want him to fix your arm. You don't want him to start like preaching to you about what he believes.

Uh, and so I see coaching very much like apart when we're, what I'm not coaching and I'm just a friend, yeah. Then I'll give my opinion. Then, then I'll engage and then I'll like, yeah, that'll, that'll be different. But just in the coaching setting, it's understanding their goals and what's standing in the way and, and helping move those things.

Mm-hmm. Okay. Interesting. So yeah, consultants have all the answers. Coaches have all the questions.

Gary: Yeah. Answer the question with another question.

Kyle: Sounds like a politician.

Gary: That's fair.

Kyle: Probably also helped out being in therapies and there's other nine, not enough therapy. [00:41:00] Okay. Um, I think that is, what are we at 43 minutes here?

Uh. Yeah, I think that's, uh, that's it. Wrap it up. Uh, more to come. Um, if you have certain topics you want us to talk about or cover, um, shoot me a message or Gary message if you know him. But yeah, that's it. That's all the briefcase and the barn. Thanks Kyle.

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