Is the Christian School Bubble Hurting Our Kids’ Faith? - Briefcase & The Barn - Ep 72

December 3, 2025

Kyle: [00:00:00] Worse. By better.[00:00:10]

Kyle: Where is he?

Gary: He's getting a drink. Maybe He's pretty mixed up.

Julius: He's looking at the suite here. Did he [00:00:20] get it? I don't know if he, it's open. It's me. No one else has looked at it, so I'm like, dude, man, just rent the thing. I know. I don't know what shit. Or get off the pot. Yeah. Oh,

Gary: stop. All that [00:00:30] podcast

Julius: sounds like him though.

Julius: I'll get engaged now. I'll have to do everything now.

Kyle: Hey, how are you Julius? Let's go.[00:00:40]

Julius: A chair.

Gary: Yeah. I'm waiting for him to get in.

Julius: Oh, I have to go. I was just, you close the, close the door menu. You?

Gary: Yeah.[00:00:50]

Gary: Okay. You think we're gonna, this is gonna work with the sound. Find out. Lemme find out. Episode number 70 something.[00:01:00]

Julius: Welcome back to another episode of The Briefcase. Oh, we're recording. Seriously. Can I say

Gary: that this time? Yeah. Say it Matt. Go ahead. Say it. Welcome

Mike: back to the Furiously. [00:01:10] Cur I. Oh, you might as well do it. I messed it up.

Mike: Podcast. You done that?

Julius: Okay. [00:01:20] Sweet. Okay. Alright. There. Episode 42. 72. Oh, 71. Close or, or overtime or maybe never published.

Gary: No. No. 70. [00:01:30]

Julius: Hopefully never published. Who's this guy?

Gary: Oh, he looks like he's ready to get married. Look at that face. Oh, are you?

Gary: You got engaged yesterday. Is it what? What'd you say? Uh, Julius?

Gary: [00:01:40] Julius, yeah. Good to meet you. He's been called Worse but better. Are you Dutch Julius? Yeah. This for any listening? I'm

Gary: Kyle's uh, I've met you before, haven't I? Relative.

Julius: This is the farm [00:01:50] animal. This is the guy that doesn't wear a shirt on this, on glasses in

Gary: red.

Julius: Halfway. This is like, he's also my [00:02:00] nephew.

Julius: Great guy.

Mike: I'm really outnumbered here now this time. No, you're totally fine. Two

Gary: against one. No, we're all crazy. You're totally fine. Alright. Okay. It's the human being tour.

Julius: You are the most sanctified though.

Gary: Yeah. You are

Julius: [00:02:10] the most. Thank you. For

Gary: sure. For sure. Thank

Julius: you gentlemen. Yeah. Yeah. Just takes it too.

Julius: Yeah. Works. Needs to work on the humility. I take it with humble heart. You have teach a class on how to be humble. [00:02:20]

Gary: Uh,

Gary: ju Julius, I'm probably, Julius has ran this scenario of being on the podcast through his mic many times now. Every time I'm like, I'm Don't touch the [00:02:30] mic. Don't touch the mic. Like, don't, don't ever touch the mic.

Gary: See, it's, I'm ready to screw up.

Julius: And it's a good thing you only knew 30 seconds before. Otherwise [00:02:40] don screwed up the whole day. The whole work day would've

Gary: been right off, right. It would've been rear-end people. It's like,

Gary: I gotta get to the podcast.

Gary: Did you rent the suite?

Gary: I [00:02:50] think I'm gonna No. Have you?

Gary: Nope. And you haven't committ it yet. Are you struggling? Committed What?

Julius: No. Okay.

Gary: Okay. Get

Julius: You're not struggling with commitment.

Gary: Yeah. You're gonna end up losing it and you're gonna look back. No [00:03:00] literal. Your legs aren't gonna be long enough to kick yourself in the ass. Hard enough. We just,

Gary: here, here was just here.

Gary: You look through it. Okay. I looked through it. This guy doesn't have a lot of head room.

Gary: No, and he is definitely gonna [00:03:10] throw his head back and smash our whole walk. Why don't you

Gary: guys move this way, you guys? No, I'm fine. It's totally fine. Define fine. Don't worry. Alright. Define fine. I'm just, I'm being considerate, Julius, you're trying control.

Gary: I thought Fiona was a [00:03:20] No, no, no. I'm, listen. I have such a, was a different

Gary: podcast. That was a different podcast in the past. But we're moving on. We're moving on. We're in another podcast, Matt, ironically. Is [00:03:30] very controlling and I'm having flashbacks. I'm no listen, not listen. Do you remember going boating me with me one time with your kids and you're like, helicopter parenting over their safety.

Gary: Oh, [00:03:40] don't get on the tube. Don't sit on the tube trucks. We go for walks. Gary, slow down, slow down, slow down. You're gonna risk our life. I'm like,

Mike: we're on the water. Matt. We were boating and you were driving the boat. Yeah, [00:03:50] enough Sid. So I had, I had to most people, I'm happy to take

Gary: boating twice. You are not one of those people.

Mike: I think you'd take me boating again, [00:04:00] Gary, only

Gary: to throw you off and leave you in the middle of the lake to drown you.

Mike: What if, what if Julius went first and then you came back and say, okay, I boat. Got time to spin 'em around

Gary: Anyway, so I'm glad you really [00:04:10] care for your kids, but I do think you're not doing your kids a favor being so soft on them.

Mike: I don't think I'm soft on them.

Gary: No, I don't think so. Okay. It felt like you were being very concerned about their safety. [00:04:20]

Mike: Uh. What do you think, Kyle?

Julius: You, I think you're, I think you're soft. Did we see it like Grasshopper when we go for a walk and you go [00:04:30] Dumpings?

Julius: Maybe this gang up in Matt. It is.

Gary: It totally is.

Gary: Anyways, Matt, I wasn't, is it

Gary: married soon, Julius? Yes. Nice. [00:04:40] Yes. Yeah. What, what's your

Gary: expectation to marriage?

Gary: Some time ago we spoke about marriage on this podcast. I think he got asked the question. Oh, go ahead

Gary: buddy. [00:04:50] I don't know what to expect. I mean, all I know is my expectations need to be, like I said down here.

Gary: Why is

Gary: that? [00:05:00] It's better to be, what's your fiance's first name? Kira.

Gary: Kira.

Gary: You don't wanna be left disappointed, right? [00:05:10]

Gary: No, you will be so well,

Mike: guys. You know something. Don't pay attention to these guys. Julius Marriage is brilliant. It's awesome. Okay? Yeah. Brilliant. It's brilliant. It, it's the [00:05:20] best, best decision you'll ever make other than serve the Lord.

Mike: Of course. But I think marriage is, it's the way to go. It's beautiful. You got somebody that actually loves you and cares for you when you come [00:05:30] home. Keeps you, you know, on your toes.

Julius: Did you know the camera was on that side and not that side? You

Gary: just keep, [00:05:40] I'm the same way. I'm just like

Gary: marriage, like I'm telling you.

Gary: And it's not that hard. It's just not that. Oh wow.

Gary: It's not

Gary: hard for him. I'm definitely getting, yeah, it's not, I mean, you are the most sanctified, right, though. We did [00:05:50] talk about

Gary: that. Oh my goodness. Don't emulate these two. Julius, you're a good guy. Just Romans three doesn't say that. No, that's true. I listened to is in

Gary: Open Grave.

Gary: I [00:06:00] listened to Sermon Danners on Romans three last night. Okay.

Gary: How was it? Was it on Romans three or on the catechism? Well, it was on the

Gary: catechism.

Gary: Okay. Um, which Lords But they read

Gary: Romans three me.

Gary: Okay. [00:06:10]

Gary: I don't even remember exactly what the,

Gary: were you listening to the sermon?

Gary: Um, so you're partly

Gary: Okay.

Mike: Partly put me, get me up to scratch here. [00:06:20] So you attend, so I

Gary: attend Central Community Church. I was just baptized there last summer. Oh, okay. I've gone there for a few years, [00:06:30] but I grew up going to the, uh, the NRC church. Why'd you go there last

Julius: night? What's that? Why'd you go there last night?

Gary: Yeah. That put me off, uh, to appease the, uh, parents.

Julius: Oh, okay. [00:06:40] Yeah. That's a good reason. Did you make a deal or something? Hm. Yeah, well, no, no. They feed him and he goes to, I invited

Gary: them. I invited them to Central the week before and then I guess I some, I said, Hey, like, yeah, why don't [00:06:50] you just come this week and I'll come with you next week?

Julius: Why don't you just stay there then?

Julius: See why'd you end up, go to Central.

Gary: This is the scenario. Thank you. Oh, [00:07:00]

Mike: I not come over. They chuck you right in the deep end. I'm telling you. I mean, it's mostly funny. Why leave your church

Gary: when he asks me hard questions? I just don't answer em. Right? Yeah. I was [00:07:10] like, waffle. Go the old politician route. Say a lot of word salad, right?

Julius: How old are you? You ask me a hard question.

Gary: How old do you think I am? 24. [00:07:20] 21.

Julius: 21. Yeah. You're

Gary: getting married already. Is that too early? Is his marriage not gonna be as good now is don't. Is it gonna be harder culture? Is it gonna be harder now to be married? Is his marriage not gonna be [00:07:30] good after all?

Gary: Yeah, it'll be,

Mike: no, I never said it won't be good, but it'll be harder if, why is that?

Gary: One is

Julius: like great age. If I go a little younger. Yeah.

Gary: Really? Yeah. Really? Why would it be harder? Harder [00:07:40] at 21 and 19? 'cause you don't make mistakes as well when you're younger. That's true. Yeah.

Gary: Well, I don't necessarily agree with that, but like, get

Julius: [00:07:50] married, have kids, like do the stuff that matters.

Gary: Countercultural, man. All right,

Mike: man. Do, I'm not saying it's wrong

Gary: or bad, getting married. Liberal. So you think that getting married at 21 Liberal, he's pretty woke. [00:08:00]

Gary: Sorry. Getting married at 21 will make marriage at 25 har or harder than it would be if you got married at 24. Like,

Mike: I don't know any of the stats on this.

Mike: [00:08:10] So like this, I'm just, I don't know if marriage is better or younger or older. You sure know when we're not recording.

Mike: Well, [00:08:20] I, I look man, you are gonna love it.

Gary: I just think 20 one's young, right? 20 one's young. He's not, it's just a number. It's irrelevant. Just like saying eighties old.

Gary: You thought I was [00:08:30] 24, so Yeah,

Gary: I did. Do you think he acts like he's 24? Well, I don't know. I'm only going by it.

Mike: He hasn't hung out with me.

Mike: This conversation. Ba basically. That's true. That's true. Yeah.

Mike: But I [00:08:40] mean, I think because I knew you were getting married, I assumed you were older than 21. That's why I picked 24. You think most people would wait until they're 24 or 25? Still, still the answer.

Gary: What was the question? Oh yeah. Why'd, [00:08:50] why'd you leave?

Gary: The church used to go to and now go to different church? I

Gary: tried to get you out of it buddy. Um, you don't have to

Gary: bash. Just what'd you like more about Central? Well, I got to the age of [00:09:00] the age of discretion, I guess you could say, you know, 17, 18, 19. And I have to make a decision for where I want to be for my life.

Gary: And I want to commit to a [00:09:10] church. I have to think about where I want my future kids to grow up at. And I don't think that just because I grew up in the NRC means it has to be there. And [00:09:20] based off of my interpretation of the Bible and just how I see church, I thought that Central Community Church was the fitting church.[00:09:30]

Gary: So, I mean, we could get into more specifics, I guess. Oh, that was a great answer. That's a great answer. A brilliant answer. That's

Gary: a brilliant answer. I'm, that's tremendous answer, Michael.

Gary: Incredible [00:09:40] word, salad

Gary: Savage. Uncle Kyle.

Gary: I'm pretty proud of that answer. I'm pretty proud I said it in a way where I [00:09:50] can't offend anyone.

Julius: That's, that's even better. Those are the,

Mike: all I heard is that the, uh, central Community Church takes longer to figure out that you're not [00:10:00] tithing. That's the reason you left, isn't it?

Mike: You just like, you just like the band up front. You just wanna be tained. I got a question for, I,

Gary: I like [00:10:10] getting up there and just enjoying it. You like the heavy beats? Front, front row. Just like you beats You

Mike: picked a good church buddy and they got good pastors. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Matt Chance is a very good pastor and, and the pastoral team [00:10:20] around him.

Mike: How do you define that?

Gary: Yeah, that's

Mike: like his heart. Matt is a genuine, has, has a genuine heart for the Lord and he genuinely wants. People to grow in [00:10:30] Christ. Like he, I mean, I don't know the inner workings of his personal life, but from what I can see and what I know of him, he's genuinely concerned about the [00:10:40] souls of people.

Mike: Don't you think most pastors are, you'd like to think Uh, most probably are, but I've met some that couldn't give a hoot.

Julius: Okay.

Mike: And, and, and I, I [00:10:50] wanna, or, or

Julius: they're more concerned about other things that are more important. Yeah. Sure. They reputation. Like it doesn't look like they're,

Mike: but anyway, I, we don't need to talk about others.

Mike: Okay. Fair enough. Negatively, I'm saying Fair enough. You picked a good church. [00:11:00] Matt's a good, what I really like leader is how good teacher

Julius: Matt's, Matt's, uh, mission of equipping the saints for ministry. So really getting, teaching the people on how to minister to others. [00:11:10] Mm-hmm. And not just being receiving, but being like going out.

Julius: And I love that part. A lot of effort goes into that. Yeah. It is a lot of work.

Gary: How was, [00:11:20] uh, Gary? Gary, what's his name?

Julius: Gary Brashear. Yeah. It was good. Uh, enjoyed the podcast with him this morning. Yeah. Oh, you

Gary: recorded with him this morning?

Julius: Yeah.

Gary: Okay. [00:11:30]

Julius: On demons and, yeah. You've had a couple

Gary: come out recently.

Gary: Did

Gary: you go to that? Did you go to that spiritual warfare thing? Yeah, and I had him on this morning. What was it like? It was good. I was interested in what, what angle he'd [00:11:40] take.

Mike: What,

Julius: what did he say? Yeah. He disagreed with a bunch of things. You've told me all. Yeah, that's fine. He says, we do have the authority to cast out demons.

Julius: God gave us that authority.

Mike: Uh, I agree with that. Well, [00:11:50] when did I say? I said, we don't have our own authority. Oh, okay. So if, if you, uh, if I said that, but I,

Julius: I've said to you be, I've, I think we talked

Mike: about a prayer. I don't like to hear people say, I [00:12:00] rebuke you. I'd rather hear people say The Lord rebuke you or ask Jesus to do it.

Mike: That would make sense.

Julius: But he would say, we can say, I rebuke you [00:12:10] because God, he'd pull out scripture that God gave us that authority.

Mike: There isn't, I don't think there's a single verse in scripture that echoes that

Gary: spiritual warfare is something that was never done, [00:12:20] but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

Mike: That doesn't mean that's wrong, but I don't think those words from any apostle are there.

Gary: What'd you say, Gary? Oh, I don't ever remember being taught by [00:12:30] spiritual warfare as, as a young

Julius: person. He actually said Mo the, like, how the devils are present in North America is trying to teach people that there is no God and there is no devils and there is no [00:12:40] like whole spiritual realm at all. Um, and that's how he's deceiving, um, the people in North America.

Julius: I agree. By yeah. Just making it a non thing completely. Or, and, and so [00:12:50] not talking about it at all growing up, including like the Holy Spirit or angels was also barely talked about,

Mike: or worse. I would say that you, it's shifted a little bit now, I think from like, [00:13:00] the absence of a devil to the devil being a playful thing.

Julius: Mm. So I think

Mike: it's more rather than there is no devil and there is no God, I think that's moved a bit. [00:13:10] He, he would say that too. Yeah. Yeah. In, in church circles even you would say. Not so much, but No, no, just culturally. Culturally, culturally. Yeah. Uh uh. But now I think like people are more [00:13:20] intrigued with demonic stuff and darkness and spiritual wickedness in a way that's kind of playful.

Mike: Like you get all these paranormal, [00:13:30] uh, ghost hunters and all like that. That whole movement is massive. The paranormal stuff. Huge in culture. It's fascinating 'cause Ouija board sales in the last [00:13:40] five years have skyrocketed again. What's a Ouija board really? Really

Mike: look at your, your, okay. Sorry. Your fellow

Mike: podcast or [00:13:50] second Ouija board.

Mike: It, it, I think, uh, I don't know when it was invented, but it's essentially, uh, it's, it's marketed as a children's game [00:14:00] and there's a board with a bunch of letters on it and you get, uh, I forget what it's called now, the, anyway, there's a little slider thing that moves around [00:14:10] and it's essentially, you're in communication with spirits over this board and it spells out sentences and whatever.

Mike: It's real, it, it's all very real and extremely dangerous.

Gary: This would [00:14:20] be part of the

Mike: occult or occult? Yeah, it is all. You can buy a Ouija board at, uh, any, uh, toy store, just about. You can buy 'em [00:14:30] Chili, chili Wine Mall.

Gary: And would, would, everybody that's buying one think that they're doing something spiritual.

Mike: I don't understand how you wouldn't, 'cause the box tells you that you're communicating with like [00:14:40] the spiritual route. It, it's, it, but it's marketed to kids Yeah. Or, or teenagers. That would make sense.

Gary: Mm-hmm. That, that adds

Mike: up. Like, you'll find a Ouija board right next to where you'd [00:14:50] find like a, a, a risk board or monopoly.

Mike: Fascinating. Okay.

Gary: I've never seen one for sale. I don't spend a lot of time, I don't like board games, first of all, so. Yeah. Well, I don't like board games. I don't, I [00:15:00] don't

Mike: think you'll, you'll buy, you'll see 'em in shops like Kohl's, like, uh, or, or indigo, or not a crappy tire. You wouldn't, you wouldn't find 'em at k guitar or like a major like [00:15:10] Walmart.

Mike: You would, but they're easy to get. You can buy 'em on Amazon and they're super dangerous.

Julius: Amazon think fresh, eat fresh. [00:15:20] What they bought their, they they bought subway slogan.

Mike: I would. Did they? No. Oh. I would, I would be, I, I was interested to know how, um, how that went. Uh, I'm, I'm glad, I'm [00:15:30] actually kind of intrigued that.

Mike: Yeah. I'm, I couldn't, couldn't go. We had a family. Couldn't or didn't want to. No, I wanted to. Couldn't anyway. Couldn't. Did you [00:15:40] enjoy it, you said? Yeah. Good. You learn anything? Yep. Praise Lord. I had a conversation with, uh, who was it? Somebody else who's Dutch? [00:15:50] You guys are everywhere.

Gary: In Chilla. Yeah. In Chill everywhere.

Gary: But I just

Mike: had a conversation about how, what a great descriptor

Julius: somebody else.

Mike: That's Dutch. Yeah.

Julius: Okay.

Gary: It means nothing to most [00:16:00] people remember, but it's funny how much it means to you now that you're immersed in, in it's true farm culture.

Mike: Just the door opened to this community and it's a beautiful people.

Mike: It is. Isn't a beautiful people. Some of my

Julius: favorite [00:16:10] people, I used to work at the greenhouse and, and uh, there would be all Mexicans working there. There'd be all Mexicans working there. And I'd tell the girls to go be, go get one of the guys in the back and be like, which one? I'd be like the guy with the mustache [00:16:20] and the hat shorter one.

Julius: I had to go back there and quickly turn around and be like, ah, it's all of 'em. Anyway, I don't know what I'll say. You said you were talking to another [00:16:30] Dutch guy?

Mike: Oh yeah. And uh, we were talking about spiritual warfare. He's a Christian Church goer and he, how do you know he was a Christian? Uh, because him and I have talked [00:16:40] numerous times about his faith and yeah, he is a Christian.

Mike: Um, but, uh, a born again believer. So he, he just had so many like basic questions, similar to what you said. He said it just wasn't [00:16:50] talked about. I I had no idea it was for you growing up. Yeah. Uh, it wasn't, there was no like, heavy emphasis on it, but like, if the question was asked, it was a, there was an immediate answer.

Mike: It wasn't like a [00:17:00] taboo subject or anything. Like my parents fasted and, and taught me about, you know,

Julius: I remember asking my dad about fasting, about like, have you ever fasted? And he goes, no. And I'm like, [00:17:10] how come? He goes, well, it was just never talked about like in seminary, how he grew up. It was just never, ever, ever talked about.

Julius: Mm. And so then it was just not a thing. And it's just a bizarre how a topic that's so [00:17:20] prevalent in scripture can just, can be completely Yeah. Like avoided. Yeah. Not even, I don't enough. In fact, with spiritual

Mike: warfare, Jesus said about certain kinds of demons. This kind can only come out with prayer and fasting.

Mike: Yeah. [00:17:30]

Julius: Yeah. I think that's a beautiful thing. 'cause it emphasizes, emphasizes how powerful prayer is. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And, and that fasting

Mike: is something different than just [00:17:40] fasting.

Julius: That's right. Yeah. Even though you can only like do two meals maxed, but yeah. If that, I'm not Gary. Gary, Gary, you're gonna do a fast Get off your phone.

Julius: You

Gary: addicted it. Saying no kidding. [00:17:50] Addicted to that Phone's gonna quote. One of our favorite verses from Freedom session is Your enemy. The devil prowls around like a roaring line looking for someone to devour, resist him [00:18:00] standing firm in the faith.

Gary: Praise the Lord.

Gary: And people do not resist. And they do not realize that their enemy is prowling around like a roaring line.

Gary: Mm-hmm. And they don't realize where the enemy [00:18:10] comes. The enemy is not, there is no lion. The lion's in your phone, the lion's on your computer, the lines in your heart. How is the new iPhone

Gary: 17, by the way?

Gary: He, [00:18:20] I went from an iPhone 11 to an iPhone 17.

Julius: Nice. I almost did that too, and I was like, that's a dumb money decision, so I didn't, yeah.

Mike: Good job. Good job. I'll get off my, I want my home button, so I'm keeping in [00:18:30] mine as long as I possibly can. Oh wow. You have a home button? I do indeed, sir. Trust me. That's the only home. If I could have a, this is anchor point phone. If I could have one of those rotary phones and [00:18:40] get away with it, I'd keep it.

Mike: You'd be a better person if you were on a rotary firm. I hate, I hate technology. You've

Gary: less conspiracy theories with the rotary phone days.

Mike: I don't know.

Julius: Okay. Are you a big [00:18:50] conspiracy theorist? No. Depends when he has Twitter on his phone, when he is trading on the phone. Conspiracy theorist May not. No conspiracy theories.

Mike: And I don't wanna talk about it 'cause our phones are listening.

Julius: You know what I [00:19:00] do? I put a sermon on beside our Amazon Alexa. So then Xi Jingping is someone good to li listen to? Nice. Hopefully we can get rid. That's evangelism.

Gary: It is. Trust me, that guy will [00:19:10] nuke you. And your sermon audio recording does not care.

Gary: Alright.

Mike: All right. Moving on to

Gary: what I

Mike: have no idea.

Gary: Do,

Gary: do we, what do you got on your, uh, your, [00:19:20] oh man.

Gary: Kyle had to like rigorously get us through all the points. So we, does he have our last

Gary: podcast, Kyle Julius is allowed to talk about what would, what you, in all your fantasizing about being on [00:19:30] the podcast and thinking about No, no.

Gary: What it could be, what does our age group want to hear? Yeah. What is your age group? Because there are a lot of listeners in the early twenties listening. What do they want to talk about? Really? I don't know. Sports [00:19:40] betting really there a lot. A lot. There's more than you think. Sports bet. I have random sports betting.

Gary: That's a, is that a big

Mike: thing for like in early twenties? A lot of people sports bet. I don't recommend it. [00:19:50] Good. Julius, get your hit on your shoulders. Nice. But is it a big, like, is it a big thing? Mm.

Julius: Nah, not really. Oh. What should we talk about? [00:20:00] What are your What

Gary: I, I wanna go through like these questions you guys normally go through No.

Gary: On the radio? No. You have

Gary: to create the content. This is, what do you wanna talk about? What people? Your table. Stop shaking

Mike: the table, Kyle. Don't worry [00:20:10] about it, man. I can't help it. Nobody can see it. Nobody can hear it. Yeah.

Gary: But I can, well, we had a listener the other night. We hung out with some listeners.

Gary: One of your buddies there, Levi. He's a pretty faithful [00:20:20] listener. There's a lot of Levis, so we didn't name and him. He just called me. He just called.

Gary: Yeah.

Gary: Yeah. What would Levi wanna hear about? These guys want to hear controversial things.

Gary: Oh, they just wanna be entertained.

Gary: They just wanna be entertained.

Gary: [00:20:30] So a lot of 'em have quit listening because we were too serious.

Gary: Oh. That's why Matt came in, right? I entertained. The only thing funny about

Gary: Matt is how he looks.

Mike: Okay. [00:20:40] Beautiful. Thanks guys. With friends like you guys, eh?

Gary: Nobody needs an enemy. Matt, you are quite attractive. [00:20:50] I take my derogatory statement back.

Gary: Oh, I can't believe

Mike: I'm publishing this crap. Marie's just like, Marie's like, what are you talking about, Gary? Seriously? What? Like what, what, what, [00:21:00] what do you guys like bounce around the

Gary: table? You talk about relationships, right? What would you talk about

Julius: if the boys hang out? You got it early. We poker. I got talk about, about for you guys.

Julius: Okay. [00:21:10] I got a serious question

Mike: for, for Julius here, being 21 and your peers around the same age, do you guys have like, um, is there a [00:21:20] seriousness in your faith or for like, amongst your peers or is it generally just like, yeah, we're all Christians, we don't really talk about it. Or, or do you [00:21:30] have a lot of non-Christian friends?

Gary: I don't have a whole lot of non-Christian friends anymore. Uh, well, I would still call them friends. I just, I don't hang out with them as much. As much. Right. [00:21:40] Um, what do you guys talk about? My friends, my friends, we're all pretty, or they're all, they're pretty committed. We talk about it a lot. [00:21:50] Talk about the Lord.

Gary: Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Um, so it's not a taboo issue, but at 21, like my age group in [00:22:00] general, I mean, it just depends on the culture and stuff too. Right, right. Yeah. Like from where I came from, I mean, now I'm just getting, now I'm getting into [00:22:10] the territory from where I came from.

Julius: What does that mean?

Gary: Well, like the church, church community, right.

Gary: Is it, say more like, I've had, I've had, like, I've been hanging out with guys my age before, right? Yeah. And we're just [00:22:20] like, as Dutch kids do, drinking beer. Right? Right. At this point it was pretty under control and somebody brings up like Jesus, right? And they're like talking about the Lord and one guy's [00:22:30] like.

Gary: Guys, we have a beer in our hand. We can't be talking about this right now. Right? We can't be talking about this with a beer in our hand.

Mike: Okay. Interesting. So did it quell all the [00:22:40] discussion just like that? Or did you guys keep talking about No, I just, I just,

Gary: I came on hinged on them. Right. I'm like that unhinged ness runs in the family.

Gary: Is that right? Yeah.[00:22:50]

Gary: Like uncle, like nephew. Kyle's getting this bug.

Mike: What you asking? Chat gt. The reason I asked you is because the younger, like Gen Z, Samuel's age, I [00:23:00] can't believe turn published

Julius: way. Got

Mike: it.

Julius: Yeah, more.

Mike: Don't worry, just talk. Oh my goodness, man. Seriously. So, uh, gen Z, like Samuel's age, the [00:23:10] teenagers, they seem to be like.

Mike: Lit on fire for with, with the Lord and Faith. And they, they, even non-believers, like they're willing to talk about spiritual stuff. Yeah. You know why? [00:23:20] Which, which is probably

Gary: why Go ahead. Do you know why

Mike: I, I would probably think that it's because they've seen emptiness and know what it is now. Yeah, yeah.

Mike: But, uh, I'm asking like, is [00:23:30] it similar to you guys? Is is there a new, because when we were younger, like God and stuff just wasn't on the table or it was like in this weird [00:23:40] ethereal, you know, cosmic, I remember talking about theology and

Julius: stuff like a lot, but I was drunk doing it. Yeah, me too. And I, it just depends on the crowd that you're in though, right?

Gary: Like you'll, [00:23:50] you'll find a crowd that talks about anything. Right. You'll find a crowd that talks about Jesus and you'll find a crowd that doesn't. Right.

Mike: Are you on social media?

Gary: Uh, less and less. Less and less. Try not to be, but [00:24:00] is that a subject? Well, I was actually gonna say that there are, there does seem to be a little bit of a movement even with podcasts and influencers and stuff.

Gary: Yeah. I mean, I don't know if it was like this 10 years [00:24:10] ago 'cause I wasn't really on social media at all then. But there does seem to be part of a movement that's like so, or people on social media and podcasts and the [00:24:20] internet that are like talking pretty openly about Jesus and like Christianity and stuff.

Mike: You know what that tells me? Holy Spirit's doing something. If the, [00:24:30] if a generation is waking up to a discussion about the gospel and Jesus, and it's different than the prior generation, the Holy Spirit's moving. But

Gary: you would think, was that not around at [00:24:40] all? I think it is in different ways. No, not to the degree, not to the, I would think like is is it really any that different or is there anything new under the sun?

Gary: No.

Mike: Oh, there's, I mean, yeah, [00:24:50] way to quote scripture, but I don't, I don't think it's, I don't think it applies here. Like I think if you compare Joe Rogan's [00:25:00] podcast, which is like the biggest podcast in the world to what it was 10 years ago, you'd find the discussion about God and Jesus specifically is ramped way up.

Julius: Yeah. I think that really [00:25:10] happened after COVID, because people realized how much of the government was lying and you really couldn't believe anything. And people need something true. And so they're realizing they're searching for absolute truth and you can't believe anything else. So [00:25:20] that. Goes to the Bible, people are gonna, even the

Gary: Charlie Kirk thing too, right?

Gary: Mm. Like that makes a lot of people be like, Hey, what's going on here? What's going on? Why guy? Why are they killing this good guy? Right? Why'd [00:25:30] this guy

Gary: get whacked?

Julius: Yeah. You think women should be preachers?

Gary: No.

Julius: What do you think with that, Matt?

Mike: I think he's wrong. That's fine. [00:25:40] Doesn't matter to me. He's not a woman, so I guess

Gary: he's not gonna be preaching anyways.

Mike: No. Hopefully your daughter never gets called. 'cause then you got some. Where do you hope to be in 10

Julius: years? [00:25:50]

Gary: Not on this podcast. That's great. That's a good answer. Nothing else. That is a good answer.

Gary: You're lucky. I don't know, man. This podcast. In 10 years, [00:26:00]

Julius: how has house sales gone? How many, how, how many houses have you sold in last year?

Julius: Um, sold one a few days ago. Now

Gary: you're a realtor. I'm a realtor. Oh, nice. I'm a realtor. [00:26:10] Yeah. Nice.

Gary: Good for you.

Gary: I didn't know. Um, it's a pretty slow market, right? And I'm new. I'm young. Not that great, but I'm working on some things. [00:26:20] You're fine. I'm fine.

Mike: You're growing. You sold one house. Oh, more than one. Oh wow.

Mike: There you go.

Gary: What's your biggest struggle in life? Jesus.

Gary: Oh my

Gary: goodness. [00:26:30] What's your biggest poor guy?

Gary: Oh wow, Kyle. Sorry honey. I'm what? My biggest struggle in life?

Gary: Yeah. What's your biggest struggle?

Gary: Oh, just dealing with myself. Right? [00:26:40]

Gary: What is that such a bad answer? Be more specific.

Gary: Um, I think it would be just like living in a way [00:26:50] that like the truth that I know and believe actually like living with that.

Gary: Like controlling how I live and my [00:27:00] emotions and just my life other than my impulses and um, [00:27:10] yeah. Or what do you call that? Thoughts?

Gary: Outrageous thoughts. That's a great answer. That's exactly my biggest issue too. What? Well, the exact same answer. [00:27:20] Having the actual truth that I know, right? The truth. All the truth and the, the things that I know to actually dictate my actions and what I do, [00:27:30] rather than that shows you actually believe it.

Gary: Yeah.

Gary: Well, and also it's just things, just things like, you know, like, I didn't know it was true. I know the Lord loves me, right? And I know that the work he's [00:27:40] done, and I know all these things, and I, you know, great friends, uh, great job, great family. Then it's just like, sometimes I'm just like, [00:27:50] depressed his shit.

Gary: Right? And it's like, why, why am I in this hole Eloquently put, Julia, why?

Julius: No, it's accurate.

Gary: Why am I in this [00:28:00] hole? Why? Like, why is my mind just going crazy? Right? Most of our

Gary: battles in our life are won and lost between our ears.

Mike: That's so [00:28:10] profound.

Gary: No, it's just a fact man. It is. People are always out there looking for the for to win some other way and it's, it's literally the battlefield is in your own mind.

Gary: In your own [00:28:20] spirit.

Mike: I think the biggest battle in my life is my knees. Like they give out on me already. I'm only 45. [00:28:30] I can't running. You have a pretty good life. Not from running. You have

Gary: a pretty good life. If that's your biggest struggle. I think you could say. I said my biggest battle. Biggest battle.

Gary: Yeah. Like I thought you were gonna say so. Biggest struggle. Something

Gary: different. Yeah, I think [00:28:40] so. I thought he was gonna say 'cause from being on his knees. Right. I thought you were gonna be Oh no. Just that's where I thought you was going. I'm just physically on the feet. Yeah. And you know what's interesting for me?

Gary: [00:28:50] I am too. And it's disappointing. Yeah. Your knees. Yeah. And my whole body just ate like, and I'm the most active that I've been in a decade.

Gary: More questions, [00:29:00] Kyle.

Mike: I have a question. You said something about truth earlier, like, you know No, you said, uh, how do I No, [00:29:10] you said truth. My, or knowing that my truth.

Mike: What did you say? Can we record it? What I said or what Gary said? No, Gary said [00:29:20] he kept me piggybacked on what you said. I forgot I got,

Gary: well, it's just knowing the truth, whatever that was. Yeah. Yeah. What about it? What did you say? Well, I basically just, Julius could probably [00:29:30] repeat it more succinctly, but just living in a way, um, you know, I know, I know what, you know, God's calling me to do.

Gary: I know, like he said, living in the light that [00:29:40] Jesus loves you and he's die for you. Right. Just living in light of the gospel. How should I live my life? Okay. That's, it's very, so I misheard what you said before. Yeah, that's fine. Okay. Anyways, very quickly I diverged from that. [00:29:50] Okay. And then things don't go well.

Gary: And then when things don't go well, you look, you start to look inward and think, Hey, what am I doing here? Or you look outward and blame everyone else, but typically I look inward and think, Hey, obviously I'm doing something wrong here. [00:30:00] Mm-hmm. So. And I found. Speaking of things going wrong, I found that lately, sermons that I've heard, and even like Sunday at our church, it's [00:30:10] really refreshing and I think it's super healthy to just live in this space of, and like we went to Barnabas and the guy spoke there at the adoptive foster week, you know, his [00:30:20] theme of the week was, you know, life is tragic and God is faithful.

Gary: But even the Sunday sermon was just like, he read a psalm and now I forget which one it was, but Psalm first. Yeah, thank you. So, and it was just, you know, [00:30:30] David's crying out to God and he's groaning. And like, there again, those were things that I was not taught, like we were not questioning or like just crying out to God or questioning.

Gary: Those were not, [00:30:40] it wasn't articulated clearly. And the thing is, when you preach, like if you perpetually preach and never give it one example of your own life, like that's not healthy.

Mike: Yeah. [00:30:50]

Gary: Like, and I felt like I had a lot of that in my life for, it was just this idea of like, dude, like if you, if you believe it, show us how you're, do, tell us how you're doing it.

Gary: If you are depraved, explain if, if all men are [00:31:00] depraved, you as the leader should be describing to me. How you are depraved to some extent. Mm-hmm. And I have found that in my life. For all my shortcomings. And Julius could say [00:31:10] this better 'cause he spent the most time with me of anybody here and sees me in my home.

Gary: It's like, just be candid about where you like, show us like, hey, how does the Lord really work? Give us an [00:31:20] example from your life. Right. And I feel like that is often lacking. So it's been encouraging. It was encouraging on Sunday to hear Gary brochures just explain how God can handle our crying out. And I [00:31:30] think of all the people that I know lately who have lost children and had husbands die and all these things that are not, can't even relate.

Gary: Yeah, we can't relate. Can't relate. Because I've never experienced that. Like I can't even imagine. Right. [00:31:40] I don't say, I could imagine. 'cause I can't,

Julius: reminds me of the verse. God's grace has made perfect in our weakness. It's never in our strengths or the ways we're doing super well and stuff like that.

Julius: It's in our suffering that we get shaped it's [00:31:50] power. Yeah. Made perfect in our weakness. His grace is sufficient. Yeah.

Gary: Yeah. Definitely. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. My story. What? Well, [00:32:00] I,

Mike: I, I,

Mike: I, I, I think that matters. Yeah. The lord's uh, power is made, is manifested most where we are in our weakness. Weakest,

Julius: yeah.

Julius: But we don't like to [00:32:10] be weak.

Gary: No, we do not like to be weak. No. That's why

Julius: it ties into that just like being, being real about like, it's usually not about us and it's embarrassing and it's like, you know, you don't look that strong or that [00:32:20] great, whatever looks that, and I mean, I've worked my whole life to be strong and have no weaknesses and fix everything.

Julius: Yeah. And it.

Gary: Doesn't work, didn't go up.

Julius: And you [00:32:30] start to hide because you realize inside it's not the case at all. Um, and then you're not really making any room for Jesus. You're trying to control your whole life. And you know, usually God calls us to do [00:32:40] things where we don't know the outcome.

Mike: Mm-hmm. And

Julius: we won't control.

Mike: Yeah. Somebody said to me years ago, they didn't realize how beautiful God's [00:32:50] unpredictability was until they fell into like the worst kind of, uh, suffering. And because. Their whole [00:33:00] Christian life. God was, uh, the person that kept them safe and provided, and, and, and God was the one that always lifted them out of [00:33:10] the pit.

Mike: And he found himself in this terrible agony and suffering, uh, not just physical health, but like family stuff. And, and he realized that, you know, [00:33:20] trying to pin God into the corner was his first mistake, right? You just can't do it. He's gloriously unpredictable in what he does, but what he always does is [00:33:30] bring someone to himself most effectively.

Mike: And he said it was in that suffering, that terrible place of suffering where he discovered most. Who God was, [00:33:40] not just like what he was, but who he was

Julius: and the most beautiful. And he avoided it his

Mike: whole life. Tried to avoid that

Julius: place of suffering. Mm-hmm. Right. And most people do. Yeah. Yeah. It's, we're wired that way.

Julius: We're [00:33:50] wired now. Philippians says, be, um, uh, suffering, yet always rejoicing, or maybe it flip flipped around. But I think that beautiful testimony of someone's faith is when you know they're suffering and they're still [00:34:00] joyful. Yeah. And, and like, and can praise God and Yeah. That's just, that's amazing thing to see.

Julius: Mm-hmm. Philippians says, it's a blessing.

Mike: Not only are you blessed to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, but also you are [00:34:10] blessed to suffer for his sake.

Gary: Most of us aren't suffering for his sake yet. No, no. It's just, we're, we're

Mike: not that way. Right. Well,

Gary: question for Julius, when is [00:34:20] the, is it a good time to buy a house right now?

Gary: When's the best time to buy a house?

Gary: Am I gonna say it's a super good time to buy a house, like buy a house right now? You're gonna miss the boat if you [00:34:30] don't. No. Um, would I say don't buy a house right now also? No. Um. Yeah, you, you must be a

Julius: realtor. [00:34:40] Goodness me. Why? It's just non answer.

Gary: Is it a good, is it a good time to buy a house right now?

Gary: Yes. Just get in the market. Get your foot in the door. Is it a bad time to buy a [00:34:50] house

Gary: right now? No. Matt's thinking about buying a house. That's why I ask a question. Oh,

Mike: Matt, gimme a call. I got no money to buy a house, man. No. I don't even know if we get approved for a mortgage. [00:35:00] Seriously.

Julius: Yeah. You would.

Julius: Well, especially now, we've talked about last week's podcast. I mean, that's a huge bubble we're shitting in. We're we're just gonna keep going down. Gary keeps talking about it. It is the whole, he's gonna crash. I don't, and then he still still [00:35:10] tells people to buy all the time.

Mike: I don't understand it. I don't, I don't understand why Gary's been saying it four years

Gary: now.

Gary: No way longer than You've only known me for four years. People that my brother-in-law would [00:35:20] say for the last two decades. Right. And in that time, houses have went up tenfold. So I don't understand. So I'm totally, I'm like the Peter Schiff and the, uh, the Peter Schiff or the Michael Burry of, uh, [00:35:30] of the in today's economy market.

Gary: Yes. Like, lemme ask

Mike: you in today's financial climate.

Gary: Yeah.

Mike: Why would a person who already has a house go and [00:35:40] buy another house but enter into more debt? '

Gary: cause they're gonna deflate our debt away. Who has the most debt? Governments. Yeah. So how are [00:35:50] they gonna deal with the debt? They're gonna deflate it away by devaluing our dollar.

Mike: Yeah.

Gary: So, so then

Mike: if you, but you still have

Gary: to pay a mortgage. Yeah, but it's, your money's gonna become, you'll get the money's value's [00:36:00] gonna go down, down, down. And when money value goes down, that means the value of your debt goes down. It means that your debt is less and less. The easiest way to get rid of debt is to spend more money, and that's exactly what they're doing.

Gary: The [00:36:10] problem is on a

Mike: macro level, but like

Gary: this. Yeah. Even on a personal level, how, okay. Well, no, I'm saying it plays out practically. In in people's,

Mike: okay, I owe, explain this to me. [00:36:20] Yeah. Let's say hypothetically speaking, yeah. I owe a hundred grand, right? Yeah. On a mortgage.

Gary: Yes.

Mike: And, uh, so they, the fiat currency devalues like crazy.

Gary: Yeah, yeah.

Mike: Now [00:36:30] my a hundred, a hundred thousand dollars mortgage is still owed.

Gary: Yeah.

Mike: Right. But I'm still making the same wage.

Gary: No, you won't because you, you tip in inflationary environment. You look at the raises that [00:36:40] government, especially government officials, not to that extent, listen, in the last years, every single raise that government people are going for are five to 7%.

Gary: Those are [00:36:50] insane annual raises. Those are not sustainable. Now, in defense of the people asking for the raises, and this is to your point, those are still not enough raises to cover the [00:37:00] increasing cost. If you ask any family at our school who sends their kid to our school, none of them feel richer than they do five years ago, even though they make 25 to 30% more, many of them than they did that.[00:37:10]

Gary: So what I'm trying to say is. The devaluation of the dollar mm-hmm. Makes the rich people richer and people that are rich own hard assets. Right. The de [00:37:20] inflation by nature is a very tax on the poorest. It's on fixed income. Older people. Yes. Understand that. So I'm saying a high debt load if you were at the beginning of the cycle.

Julius: Mm-hmm.

Gary: In which, [00:37:30] there again, some people, and I would even, I mean the whole thing that we read now about an inflationary environment, if we enter into a second wave of inflation and governments by some, you know, chance, [00:37:40] have to raise interest rates again, then of course you are right. Then the debt is catastrophic.

Gary: Yeah. And theoretically it was even this time, and I would argue, based on what I see, you know, lending money, [00:37:50] doing real estate deals, the carnage, like the, the back end of the real estate side of it, right. On the borrow, because that's really the, the bulk of the real estate stuff is the back end. It's, it's the, the borrowed money, it's the, [00:38:00] the titles, all that.

Gary: If you look at what I see in the debt side, we are in the very beginning stages of lots of foreclosures in the Fraser rally. Lot.

Mike: Yeah.

Gary: People, [00:38:10] people. The very last thing that people, people, doesn't this come to my point? People

Mike: can't afford So they, for foreclose they can afford?

Gary: No, they will. They will.

Gary: Will. That's my point. They will, but I So why your

Julius: debt's not less worthless? [00:38:20] Just like,

Mike: I'm not talking about the, the, the value of the debt. I'm saying you're just saying debt is a problem. I don't understand why you're not wrong. A person would enter into more debt now when the value of their money is [00:38:30] going away.

Mike: I don't get it.

Gary: Okay. Yeah. I, I hear what you're saying. And theoretically, I mean, and even just from a spiritual perspective, I guess I've always felt like, and I borrowed a lot of money, [00:38:40] I've always felt like, hey, the only ver there's no verses in the Bible. I think I've said this before on here. There's no verses in the Bible that speak positively of debt.

Gary: No. Right. It's always, you know, the borrower is [00:38:50] slave to the, the lender. Right.

Mike: Except for the cross

Gary: talks about it. That's different. Debt being wiped clean. Hey, should we have that? There's a, um, what was it called? What did the, what are the is [00:39:00] No, no, no, no. I'm thinking of the, uh, what was it? We can't do anything about it.

Gary: No. The Israelites, what did they have? What was the Jewish? Uh, they had Jubilee. Jubilee. Should we have that?

Julius: Yeah. Let's go. [00:39:10] Let's every 50 years. How did that work? Apparently it never actually happened. Apparently. It never actually did it.

Gary: It was

Mike: just an idea.

Julius: Well, they were told to do it, but apparently they had obedient to it.

Mike: [00:39:20] Never even in the early stages.

Julius: Someone told me that the other day. I haven't looked at it myself. 50

Gary: years is a long time. Yeah. Yeah.

Julius: Like all the slaves had to go back. Everything.

Gary: [00:39:30] Okay.

Mike: Okay. Everything had to be squared.

Gary: Are still slaves in the world today? Yes. Are there parts of the world where there's people that are full on

Mike: slaves?

Mike: We're all slave to something. The Arab world. Speak for [00:39:40] yourself. Speak for yourself. The Arab world is still now the biggest traitor of illegal slaves

Julius: and [00:39:50] the human trafficking in the States is just the Arab world. Just slaves are normal. It's really

Gary: unfortunate that every time Matt says something, it's a, something that's a bit, not outrageous, but just a pretty bold statement.

Gary: I always assume it's conspiracy theory. [00:40:00] It's not, look it up. It's not a conspiracy theory. Okay. Okay. I'll look it up. Yep. Pretty, uh, pretty, pretty tragic that there's literality and for [00:40:10] sure in the sex industry for sure. Slavery is huge. Well, it's like this idea that the world is getting, somehow that's watched documentaries on that.

Gary: It's awful, awful, awful. I was [00:40:20] just

Mike: watching actually, uh, it was a daco, a documentary, a on, yeah, it's Australia. They shorten everything. But, um, on, on the, [00:40:30] uh, Hollywood and how much, like kids being exploited in Hollywood has been a problem for decades and it's always been under, so this Diddy [00:40:40] p Diddy thing.

Mike: Yeah. Puff Daddy thing. Yeah. Just blew the lid off it. But now all these celebrities are coming out saying, no, this has been happening for decades. And we've been trying to say it, [00:40:50] but you know, we've, all, our voice has been squashed.

Gary: So would it have just been certain. Famous people that were abusing children, but obviously not everybody was guy.

Gary: Not everybody would've been in on it. There would've been good [00:41:00] people in the industry. The guy from,

Mike: uh, what's the famous guy? Weinstein, the producer, the Goonies. He's been saying it forever. The guy, Corey, what's his name? Corey.

Gary: [00:41:10] We, we didn't grow up watching tv. We don't know what the Goon, I've never heard of the Goonies.

Gary: You're the only goon. I know what, yeah. We don't know anything about the Goon, right? Heathens. Yeah. We don't watch tv, man. Seriously. You don't know [00:41:20] the

Mike: movie. The Goonies

Gary: is a classic.

Gary: It's a classic for you.

Gary: That's it's a classic for the, like the world. It's a classic movie.

Gary: Most of us folk [00:41:30] man, us Dutch folk.

Gary: We grew up under a rock, man. Wow. Well, I had to watch TV through the neighbor's window that night. Went down the road and watched with the big,

Mike: you know, the big giant.

Mike: That big [00:41:40] giant.

Gary: This is exactly why we weren't allowed to watch it. Yeah, that's how you sound now when you're normally talking with the mushed

Mike: face.

Mike: That guy.

Mike: What are you talking about? Oh my goodness. The

Gary: Goonies. Seriously. [00:41:50] Anyway, did you know that? I've saying for

Mike: years that guy Corey Feldman. Corey Feldman,

Gary: you're not. It's, you have to quit looking to us for the answer. I, anyway. Your answer, do you know that we've never watched Harry Potter? [00:42:00]

Julius: That was actually the one good thing thing about being in the Cycl.

Julius: How about Lord of the Rings movies every night. That's never seen it. Those are good. What. So the one good thing about being in the psych ward when I was nine is I gotta watch movies every night. [00:42:10] Oh man. That screwed you too, man. Tell things went so sideways. You guys carrying a lot of stuff.

Mike: You never, I went to a psych ward to visit people.

Mike: Yeah. So did i. I would've visited your

Julius: [00:42:20] car. Thanks, man. Yeah, appreciate that.

Gary: I would've played Pokemon cards with you. Not poker though, gambling. No, not, [00:42:30] didn't think gambling's great. Hmm. Doesn't like playing poker. Can't handle playing poker. Julius, how do you playing poker? The problem is I Do you like playing

Gary: poker? Oh, I love playing poker.

Gary: Okay. Why do you like playing it so much?

Gary: [00:42:40] You already

Mike: just said it's a bad word to put in anything. Playing poker. I love playing poker.

Gary: Does that make you uncomfortable? Yeah,

Mike: a little bit. Yeah.

Gary: I don't play [00:42:50] poker a lot. Good. Neither do I. Mostly. 'cause there's not a casino at my house.

Gary: Mm. Well sometimes there is.

Gary: Sometimes there is. But if there was all the time, I'd be just,

Gary: uh, are we coming to the end?

Gary: [00:43:00] No. No. We're there's no, listen, listen. I got a

Mike: serious, serious discussion. I wanna talk about you wish I've had it a few times. No, seriously. I've had it a few times. The [00:43:10] Christian school bubble. Right. What do you think of this? Because I'm not sure it's real, like recognized as being, I think sometimes [00:43:20] it's a, I think most times it's a good foundation, but I think a lot of Christian, do you think it's damaging in the long run?

Mike: Yeah. Talk more. What's the Christian school bubble? Yeah. How would you discuss it? Why is it damaging? [00:43:30] Yeah. Okay. So, uh, I've been in ministry now for about nearly 20 years. And across the board, uh, in the Christian circles that I've been in, [00:43:40] um, there's a marked difference between. Kids that have grown up from like preschool to grade [00:43:50] 12 and gone into university in the Christian system, other than someone who has been in school, Christian school from like kindergarten [00:44:00] to like grade six or seven, and then they go into a public school or someone who hasn't been in a Christian school at all, there's a mark.

Gary: What would, what would the difference be?

Mike: Uh, [00:44:10] the Christian school bubble that I would say tends to, um, the, the, the, the [00:44:20] person is generally not willing to let their faith be crunched, be, be, be challenged hard. They, they, they retreat into [00:44:30] like, uh, um, you know, comfortable little dogmatic. Bubbles and they wanna stay there rather than really asking or grilling themselves with [00:44:40] hard questions.

Mike: And when they're in a secular setting where challenge is normal, they fall apart or they leave it and isolate themselves and then [00:44:50] raise their family the exact same way. And that, and that bubble continues. I agree with that. I've seen it over and over again. I've seen Christian kids go into secular university and their faith [00:45:00] is worthless and it falls apart like quickly within the first year they come back, oh, you know, I'm deconstructing, or whatever, I'm going through all this kind of crap.

Mike: But really it's just garbage. An

Gary: [00:45:10] issue of how they were raised in the sense of that they were just raised dog dogmatically. Where? Where Nothing. No. Where nothing could be challenged. No. Or it's because they've never been challenged the whole time. 'cause I've seen

Mike: it across several [00:45:20] denominations. So several different kinds of Christians, the Christian bubble like it, and the Christian.

Mike: I think as a foundation it's good, [00:45:30] but it becomes like this protective, uh, you know, I'm, uh, uh, my kid might end up in a place where someone's, so what if you're

Julius: sending your kids to public school now and they're [00:45:40] being taught like all this crazy stuff about gender or this or that. You're just saying that's gonna challenge 'em more and they kinda come home, learn about it, and be ready when they're, so I would be

Mike: of the, I would be of the thinking that the [00:45:50] foundation is good, like from, you know, great kindergarten when in, in a developing years, but when they're, when a a, a kid gets to teenage years, 16, 17, [00:46:00] 18, 19, I think they need a few years of exposure to doubt.

Mike: Exposure to challenge.

Julius: Yeah. 16, 17, 18. That's a lot different than like [00:46:10] 12. I mean Okay. Thir, let's say

Mike: 13, even 13. I just think, I think the foundation is good and necessary, so, but I think. Like, [00:46:20] even like I've met, I've met pastors that have children, not so much here now, but in, in my life [00:46:30] where they've, from preschool, they've gone into a, a, a Christian preschool and then a Christian elementary school and then a Christian high school, and then [00:46:40] a Christian bible college.

Mike: And then they come out and they have never really accepted much challenge in their faith and they don't know what to do about it. So I think it's [00:46:50] dangerous. Really dangerous. What do you think? Because we, I think you, I think, go

Julius: ahead.

Mike: Our kids went to, our kids are in Christian schools, but like, [00:47:00] um, even some of the discussions I've had with other parents, like there's, we, we do take on that protective, insular mentality [00:47:10] pretty easily.

Mike: It's fascinating.

Gary: Um, uh. Mr. Paul Henderson, not, not the famous, uh, or infamous, uh, local politician, local [00:47:20] politician slash uh,

Julius: local reporter

Gary: reporter. But the, uh, Paul Henderson, who scored the 1972, uh, goal mm-hmm. For Team Canada. He was at a marriage conference I was at a few years [00:47:30] ago, and he went out there with his wife and just basically rail on this issue.

Gary: But on the side of kind of like, Christian education is paramount.

Mike: I still believe that. I know that. I'm [00:47:40] not saying I'm

Gary: not, I'm not, I I'm not paint brushing how you think. 'cause I, I know where you're coming from, but I would, I guess I feel it's pretty personal or personal. I feel like it's very much a family [00:47:50] dis family decision.

Gary: And I think that, um, it's another area where I find Christians tend to say, Hey, let's find something that we can disagree over [00:48:00] and crap on each other's ideas of how we're doing it. Like there's homeschool moms. I'm not doing that though. You're not. Okay. But I'm just, I'm calling you promise. I'm, I really not.

Gary: Yeah. Well, you just don't wanna. You just don't wanna wear [00:48:10] the weight of your, I just don't like conflict criticizing. Yeah. You're just conflict of weight, huh? Go ahead, finish. Um, I guess I feel like [00:48:20] you look at a family like ours where our children have a lot of trauma. Yeah. And should they be, I don't wanna say thrown to the wolves, but should they be out there where at some, I mean, at some point they are [00:48:30] gonna have to question themselves.

Gary: Yeah. But I feel like the most loving thing I can do for my children as a dad at this moment is have them, and I have no idea how long for, um, [00:48:40] but I think, boy, there is a long period of, of I'm gonna have them in a lot of ways, be stretched in life and challenged. But they're such followers and they're so, they're [00:48:50] so, they're, they're so, um, you know, I don't wanna say the wrong thing, but they're, they're just so vulner, they're vulnerable.

Gary: They're so vulnerable. Yeah. Like, I have such some of my chose, especially one of my girls, but like, [00:49:00] they're so vulnerable. As much as I can. So, and I guess where I'm going with this is every family will be different.

Julius: Yes. And even

Gary: in a family, you might have one [00:49:10] kid. And that, that's where I, I actually kind of agree with you.

Gary: Like Marie went, grew up gonna public school her whole life.

Julius: Mm-hmm.

Gary: And that was a beautiful thing. Like she grew up in the England church, but you know, she was, in [00:49:20] a lot of ways, you know, a Christian would be probably too strong of a word for how, you know, they went to church, the church on Sunday, but it wasn't predominantly, it wasn't, faith wasn't talked about all the time at home.

Gary: Definitely not in a [00:49:30] personal way. And so for her, she sorted that out in a secular setting with all her friends from youth, which is super cool. Right. Which is what you're seeing now even at our schools, in our community, at [00:49:40] public schools. Um. But I just feel I wanted Yeah, go ahead. You can interject.

Mike: I wanted to ask, 'cause this guy's 21, right?

Mike: So you're, you're in this place [00:49:50] of just leaving high school. It's, I mean, you've been out for a while. What, what are you, you got it, what, three years ago? You should go back to school either way, right? Yeah. Three years. But like, and did you go to a Christian [00:50:00] school? Yeah. So you grew up in a Christian school and stayed in a Christian school, right?

Mike: Yeah. So kindergarten

Gary: to grade 12.

Mike: So at what point, at 21, at what point was your [00:50:10] faith in Christ really challenged,

Julius: still coming. He's got married

Mike: challenge. Yeah. Still

Gary: coming. I, I, well challenge [00:50:20] how, like, what would challenge look like? Like how do

Mike: you know Jesus is true and Allah is not? I think

Gary: that, I think that I've personally experienced the, a

Mike: [00:50:30] Muslim would say the same thing, but that he's personally experienced his God.

Mike: So how do you know yours is true? Because he is yours is true, but how do you [00:50:40] know? Yeah. See,

Gary: um, Julius can answer this question very well. He's just not answering it right now.

Gary: How do I know [00:50:50] it's true? I, I would say, I mean, again, maybe personal experience, is it too Broadway of saying it? But I think that if, [00:51:00] yeah, just in my life, I got to the point where it was like the world is broken in a way.

Gary: Right. And I'm broken in a way [00:51:10] where I need Jesus. Right. And I need him. Right. And the way that the desires I have, right. And all people have [00:51:20] Right. Are only really ever gonna be fulfilled in Jesus and what he's done and what he has in store for us. Mm-hmm. [00:51:30] Right. Um, so I think you're probably right in the way where.

Gary: Is like this actually true, like from [00:51:40] like almost like a scientific like perspective maybe has never been challenged enough for me. I've always just kind of, you know, when I was younger, okay, I believe God's real [00:51:50] didn't have real faith or anything, but then when I got older, you know, I experienced the need and the love for him.

Julius: Mm-hmm.

Gary: Um, but yeah, that's how [00:52:00] I've experienced it to be real is just basically by him filling, uh, those holes in my heart and, and my [00:52:10] needs and, um, just that's grown I guess, into a faith, uh, of it. There are [00:52:20] questions still that, that people ask me. Mm-hmm. Right. Things like, I mean, I had a guy talking the other day about how, you know, well.

Gary: If God loves it. If God [00:52:30] loves us and wants to forgive us, well then why doesn't he just do that? Mm-hmm. Like, he makes the rules. Mm-hmm. Like why did he have to send Jesus to die? Why? Why are some of us not gonna be saved? Mm-hmm. [00:52:40] Why? Right. And do I have a, do I tell him like, Hey, this is the answer. No. 'cause I,

Mike: but have you thought about that?

Gary: Yeah. I think you have. I [00:52:50] think Matt, I think people, I think ultimately, I'm not saying he hasn't, I'm asking Well, I know,

Mike: but you seem to love to answer for him. Like I'm just

Gary: Well, well, I think [00:53:00] about it, but, but there are, I guess part of my answer is there are questions that I don't know the answer to.

Gary: Right?

Mike: Right. And

Gary: things where it's like, hey,

Mike: like, but why do [00:53:10] so? Do you stop at that? Like, I don't know the answer, therefore I stop? Or do you pursue it?

Gary: I think that if we try to put God, like, [00:53:20] we try to make him small and try to understand everything about him. And like, we'll never be able to understand that in our human minds.

Gary: We're not designed, God is way bigger than we, we can even [00:53:30] imagine. Mm-hmm. So to think that any Christian mm-hmm. You can go up to them, they have all the answers and they, like, they're confident in their faith. They know [00:53:40] everything. It's just not realistic. And it's not, it's realistic for Matt.

Julius: It's realistic.

Gary: No. For, for a, a, a person say [00:53:50] they understand God, this is good by the way, and his plan and his will and the Christian religion mm-hmm. Fully mm-hmm. Would be to say, I, yeah, [00:54:00] I understand God fully. That's not, that's not, then you're not acknowledging your broken, sinful, um, [00:54:10] misunderstanding character that all humans have of God.

Gary: Right. Um,

Mike: anyway, I'll let you off the hook. [00:54:20] Like it, like it's pretty, it's, it can go on and on and on and on and on. I just, I just think that like, even, I think we all [00:54:30] need to really push our dogma to the door. All of us. Like even even you guys, like when we or us like us here, when we had [00:54:40] at the end of the last podcast, you were like, I, we were never shown those scripture texts.

Mike: Remember the one at the end, right? Like, I think that is maddening to me [00:54:50] as, as someone who wants, like an unbeliever has really difficult questions for themselves and you [00:55:00] know, it's, yeah, I, I They're questions that Christians. Don't even ask themselves.

Gary: Too scared to, they're

Mike: too scared to. That's what I'm saying.

Mike: And this brings me back to [00:55:10] my point. And we protect that fear.

Julius: Yeah. In our, uh, that's what I was frustrated with growing up. I didn't have an, I had so many questions. It's so frustrating to me, man. It's

Mike: really

Julius: fru.

Mike: Sorry buddy.

Julius: Go

Mike: [00:55:20] on.

Gary: No,

Julius: it's fine.

Gary: No, go ahead.

Gary: So, one thing I'll say, and Julia alluded to it, and this is where like he was

Gary: talking, we cut him off.

Gary: I could see, go ahead.

Gary: Why are you

Gary: concerned about it this time? [00:55:30]

Gary: Good. The hundredth time in the last hour. I just felt

Gary: bad. But Matt, isn't there something to be said for the idea that, that like, we have all these questions and we [00:55:40] expect Yeah, but who, who has all these questions? You, oh, even myself. You know, like these un-Christian people that ask those questions that you're talking about.

Gary: Like what? [00:55:50] Oh, like the one, like the one I mentioned. Right. Why, why does God

Gary: allow suffering?

Gary: Why does God allow suffering? Why does God, you know, not save all people?

Julius: Um, but if they, if they were gonna get a real estate deal for you, if [00:56:00] you figured out the answer for you, you'd figure it out. No, no, no, no, no.

Julius: I think those are pretty basic questions that I think we should push into and dig into, have answers to. Or even, even too, [00:56:10] it's too, it's too easy to just like cave and be like,

Mike: so somebody asked me when I was like, I don't even think I was a Christian at the time. I was in a philosophy class [00:56:20] in university, and somebody said, how do you know?

Mike: 'cause I was, I was one of those guys that, you know, I believed in God, uh, and didn't serve him, right? Mm-hmm. So I don't [00:56:30] really know that I was convinced about Jesus until my conversion, but I never doubted God. I never doubted that there was a God. And somebody asked me one time, how do you know that the Bible is true?[00:56:40]

Mike: How do you answer that? So that is a, that's a problem. That's a real question. So I'm telling [00:56:50] this unbeliever dude, pick up the Bible. What for what? For like, why, why this and not the, uh, you know, the guru grants, AHI of Seism [00:57:00] sounds like an interesting

Mike: book too.

Mike: It's heavy and big, but have you read it? Not all of it, no.

Mike: Okay. And it's hard to understand it in English. So how do you

Gary: know the Bible's true?

Mike: Because the [00:57:10] Bible can be proven. It can be falsified. Right? Like you can through historical

Mike: facts.

Mike: Yeah. And archeology. So, but also like, it, it's, it's a unique book in the way that it's written. It's not just [00:57:20] from cover to cover.

Mike: Hang on, he asked me a question. So, uh, and also you've got prophetic influence in the scriptures that other books don't even begin to [00:57:30] entertain. So the Bible itself. Proves that it's different than any other book. And also it reveals more about the person [00:57:40] reading it than any other book. So you read the Bible over and over and over again, you'll find more about you than you know about you.

Mike: And it also [00:57:50] illustrates how historically all of the things that has been told have meanings for the future. Like [00:58:00] for example, in the Book of Daniel, there's stuff talked about in a historic sense in the book of Daniel that was foretelling the future. And no one can, [00:58:10] no one can dispute that, right? So there are places in scripture where there's room for questioning, but the Bible is a unique book.

Mike: Other books aren't. [00:58:20] I just think that when people are asking us, especially in your twenties. Because like that's when your [00:58:30] mind is dogma is dangerous. Just it really is. You can just camp out on stuff you think is true, but it's not.

Gary: Yeah. I guess I land [00:58:40] in the camp where ultimately, um, you are gonna be saved by faith.

Gary: And I feel like I grew up and I still feel like I spend a lot of time, even [00:58:50] myself, I'm pretty pragmatic. Mm-hmm. And I feel like very quickly there always needs to be this explanation and it's this deep, like, it's like at the end of the [00:59:00] day. Like you think of how people are saved or even my, it's, it's my experience of kind of what God did to me and worked in my heart.

Gary: Obviously all the teaching and all the things [00:59:10] kind of come to a like, Hey, this, it makes, you know, now I've experienced a lot of things I were taught, and a lot of it makes sense and the theological terms are aligned. Right. [00:59:20] You know, things like sanctification where it's like, I haven't, it's not like I've tried to be more sanctified.

Gary: I'm literally just being sanctified. It's just God's doing the work, right? Mm-hmm. Which is a miracle. It's a miracle. So [00:59:30] it's like, I think we get into a dangerous ground with people esp and I think they, the questions can be asked. I think it's healthy for the questions. Our churches should be places where the questions can be asked.

Gary: [00:59:40] Mm-hmm. Where you can really wrestle. I think you have to wrestle with the Lord. I we're kind of going back to what I was talking about earlier where, you know, that was kind of the Sunday sermon where you can cry out to God, but also it's ultimately gonna come down to, I had [00:59:50] a. A conversation with a guy fighting demons.

Gary: The other night in my pickup truck, I drove him home.

Mike: Like literally,

Gary: well, he was, I didn't even know how to deal with it to be really frank. And he's, he, he was [01:00:00] screaming at, he's screaming at me and he's saying, at first he was kind of like talking to me about how, hey. You know, he was crying out about his life and hard his life has been and all the horrible [01:00:10] things and all the things he's experienced.

Gary: And I'm thinking in my head, okay, I've experienced a lot of gross things too. I've been in a lot of dark place, been in places. I would just mortified him. And then ultimately I said to him like, [01:00:20] yeah, but you resent God. Right? And then he started weeping and started screaming and kind of saying, yeah, this guy, God's, he vulgar rat Did vulgar.

Gary: Sorry. Did he get vulgar? No, he [01:00:30] didn't. But he was just, and then I said, and he was weeping and then I said like, you ultimately just need to bend the knee. Like every person just needs to bend the knee. At some point you need to say I can't do it.

Julius: Hmm.

Gary: Right. And he's [01:00:40] still, he, it's still a wrestling match of, Hey, how come my life's not fair?

Gary: Do you know what I mean? Yes. But that's different than what I'm saying. Okay. So we can

Gary: move on. No, but I think too, kind of to his point, if your [01:00:50] disposition is, I need to understand absolutely everything. No, I before I, okay. That's not where you're coming from before. I can believe. No. That, that's not, [01:01:00] that's never gonna work.

Gary: Right? 'cause then you're making yourself and your understanding the Lord of your life. No,

Mike: what I'm

Gary: saying

Mike: is you need to understand why you believe [01:01:10] something. Okay. That's all. Okay. So if you don't like it's, it's because someone you have so memorized, it's because someone's told you, I see that [01:01:20] it's worthy of being, it needs to be

Gary: personal experience.

Gary: Fair enough. That's all. I think the way you're wording it is

Mike: so if, if you believe something because you've been told your whole life that you need to believe it, that's a [01:01:30] stupid reason to believe something.

Gary: It is fascinating if you think about it and you, maybe this is what you're alluding to, but if, if I think of all the people I interact with in business and I go to church, it is fascinating [01:01:40] to see how many people, and I really see it leading freedom session where people that have done something their whole life.

Gary: Don't even really believe any of it. So my, and the reason, you know, most of my coaching is

Julius: built on

Gary: [01:01:50] Makes sense. Crazy because ultimately all the behaviors that are coming out here, if you believe what, if you believe what you said you believed you would not be doing 80, 90% of the things you're doing.

Gary: Exactly. So it's, it's [01:02:00] fa it's fascinating to kind of see that in real life and then have people come to these moments and, and I think because there again, back to what you're saying about not questioning, there's very little space to [01:02:10] like stand up in the church and be like, Hey, this is, I'm not tracking with this.

Gary: Well, it

Mike: would be chaos.

Gary: It would be chaos if everyone No, but I'm saying even in a, a conversation. Yeah. And then by chance you might [01:02:20] be asking the question to someone else whose faith is not strong or has no faith and then they really not gonna wanna talk about it. 'cause they don't want to admit that they're on that.

Gary: You know, you might be ready to question things and kind of sort out where you're at [01:02:30] with the Lord, but it might be a bit awkward.

Julius: Thanks for listening guys. We'll

Kyle: catch you next week. This was a long one. [01:02:40] Cheers.

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