Inside the Mind of a Private Investigator: Fraud, Affairs, and Politicians | Steffan Moens

December 6, 2025

Kyle: [00:00:00] Recording last week with a guy for like 20 minutes. [00:00:10] Yeah. I looked outta my recorder and I haven't hit Go[00:00:20]

Kyle: Mike from Harper.

Speaker 3: Oh, okay. Shouting. Yeah. Nice.

Speaker 3: Thank you for the coffee. [00:00:30] Nice.

Kyle: So you can move this thing just a little always way kind of talking into [00:00:40] It's how

Speaker 4: close to, that's good. Yeah. This is good. Yeah, just talk little bit. Um, Hey Kyle, how you doing? You speed. What's that? You speed. [00:00:50] Always should be good. Okay. Any questions for me, uh, before we get started? Not really. Uh, if I [00:01:00] stumble a bit, you know, apologies.

Speaker 4: First time on a podcast, so. Yeah. Fair enough. Um, and, uh, any specific things you wanna cover?

Speaker 3: Uh, I mean, just [00:01:10] whatever questions you have, um, I'll answer to the best of my ability. Uh, anything that would

Kyle: specifically help your business or something that like, that you think would be good to cover or,

Speaker 3: um, [00:01:20] no, I think it's just that giving a description of what I do and, and at one point in time I would like to go through how a PI gets hired and what to expect from hiring a pi.

Speaker 3: [00:01:30] Okay. Yeah. Um, 'cause that's important and that's something that people struggle with quite a bit. Okay.

Kyle: Um, it is [00:01:40] a, I do very confrontational style, so like, feel free to like, ask me questions. Mm-hmm. Or just throw it back like there's, there's no, there's no rules. Um, take a pretty relaxed [00:01:50] approach.

Kyle: I have a few questions right now. I just wanna grab them a second.[00:02:00]

Kyle: Okay.

Kyle: Um,

Speaker 4: name of the company again? Sterling Oak Research and [00:02:10] Investigations. Sterling Oak Research and Investigations. I gonna write

Kyle: that down 'cause I'll forget

Speaker 4: that.[00:02:20] [00:02:30]

Speaker 4: How many podcasts have you done?

Kyle: Almost 90. 90 of my own. Yeah. And I used to go on [00:02:40] quite a bit when I was at MUT Yeah. For other gun companies. So this is just another Tuesday morning? Yes, it's, I have another one after this. Nice. [00:02:50] Um, yeah, it becomes, you kind of forget about the whatever, all the stuff. So, welcome back guys to another episode of the Furious Lake Curious Show.

Kyle: I am here with Stephan [00:03:00] Mos from Sterling Oak Research and Investigation Investigators. That's correct. Yeah. Thanks for being here. Thank you very much for [00:03:10] having me. So, step and I went to school together. I think you're a couple years older than me. Yeah, a few classes ahead. Yeah. And then, uh, I don't know, I got, hadn't heard from you in a while, [00:03:20] um, a after we graduated and I heard from you, what, six months ago?

Kyle: Mm-hmm. On, uh, something you were working on. Uh, but you're a private investigator now. That's basically what the sum of it is.

Speaker 3: Yeah. I'm a private [00:03:30] investigator. Uh, I own the company, Sterling Oak Research and Investigations. Been a private investigator for 10 years now. Uh, working here in British Columbia.

Speaker 3: Okay.

Kyle: [00:03:40] How'd you get into that? 'cause I know you were, what'd you do after high school? Did you go straight into the Army or did you do something else first?

Speaker 3: No, I went to, uh, university for a year, year and a half. [00:03:50] Taking business classes, but that didn't really interest me as much. Um, so yeah, I ended up joining the Roy Westminster [00:04:00] Regiment, um, which is a reservist unit in New Westminster, um, which allowed me to, you know, be a soldier, but at the same time take [00:04:10] classes at the local university here at in Abbotsford, the University of the Fraser Valley.

Speaker 3: Uh, and I switch from business over to criminology Criminal Justice, I think the program is called. [00:04:20] Um, so I was able to complete my degree at the same time I was serving as a soldier.

Kyle: Okay. And that, uh, as a reservist, um, in McCain Forces Forces, what does that look like that just [00:04:30] one weekend a month or is there more, is there actually like a bootcamp or how do

Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's, you have a minimum standard that you have to, um, do, which is [00:04:40] one night a week and one weekend XA month.

Speaker 3: Although, um, there's always reasons why you can't. You occasionally go on these exercises, work, [00:04:50] family sickness. Yeah. Things like that. You have to have some sort of excused absence if you're gonna miss. Um, but it's also an organization that you can do quite a bit [00:05:00] more if you want to, you can sign up for courses.

Speaker 3: Hmm. Um, you can apply for what's called Class B contracts, where you go full time. You, you get attached to either a training [00:05:10] school or a, um, uh, like a proper regimen, like the pri princess Patricia's. Um, so [00:05:20] there's quite a bit of options. You can do as much as you want, but you can also just do the bare minimum, um, if your civilian life is starting to interfere a little bit with your military life.

Speaker 3: Okay. [00:05:30] Yeah. And, uh, it's a good program. Um, 'cause I, you know, you do get trained as a soldier and if you want to do more with that training, you can, however, if you want [00:05:40] to. What year would this have been that you joined? I joined in 2010. Oh, okay. I was finished my training at the end of 2011. Okay. And you were in [00:05:50] there

Kyle: for eight years or something?

Speaker 3: Yeah, eight years in

Kyle: total. Do you know what it's like now? Like has it changed a lot? Like what, what would you say the state of the Canadian army is in?

Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it is, uh, [00:06:00] it's, it's different now for sure. Um, I mean, I'm still friends with quite a few soldiers that I served with and, um, they're [00:06:10] telling me, right, I'm just hearing what they're saying about it, and it's become a little bit more relaxed.

Speaker 3: There's less money than there used to be. Um, but I mean, when I joined Canada was still in [00:06:20] Afghanistan. Hmm. Um, they left when I just finished my training, which was unfortunate for me because tours stopped, uh, for Ncms anyways. [00:06:30] But, um, they've stated, they have stated that it has changed quite a bit. Uh, and this does happen, um, when Canada's not at war, that it starts to.[00:06:40]

Speaker 3: Sort of back away from its army a little bit, not necessarily give it all the resources it needs. And um, and it's not like a conservative or, or liberal thing. It's, yeah, I mean, there's [00:06:50] arguments to be made that, uh, Canadians did much better under Stephen Harper and the, uh, as far as being a soldier goes, um, and liberals are tend [00:07:00] to be a bit harder on the army, but at the same time, you know, Canada was transitioning from a war to peace time.

Speaker 3: So I don't know how much of it has to do with the actual policy because I [00:07:10] don't, I'm not reading these policies myself.

Kyle: Fair

Speaker 3: enough. Yeah. Yeah. And how much has to do with just, um, the way conservatives approach the military versus the way the liberals do?

Kyle: Fair enough. [00:07:20] Okay. So you're in there for eight years and how'd you get into to being a private investigator?

Kyle: What was your first interactions with that?

Speaker 3: Yeah, so, um, [00:07:30] after I finished my degree at the end of 2013, I was flat broke. I had no money, so I took a job. Up [00:07:40] north in, um, Hudson's Hope, working on the WAC Bennett Dam. Yeah. As a rock scaler. Um, for just gonna move this tie bit closer. [00:07:50] Better? Yeah. Okay. Uh, so I took a job up there as a rock scaler and we worked nights and, uh, we had quite a bit of free time during the day, and I found a book [00:08:00] called Private Investigations for Dummies, written by Steve Brown.

Speaker 3: Uh, and I bought the book and it was quite interesting to me, um, somewhat [00:08:10] applicable to the degree that I had. And, uh, I thought, you know what? Maybe I should give this a shot, see how that goes. And, uh, yeah, it worked out quite well for me.

Kyle: Okay. What intrigued you [00:08:20] about the book? Like you remember, what do you remember from it that stuck out?

Speaker 3: Well, he describes, uh, a few different ways that he finds people the tricks and the. [00:08:30] Deception that he uses to draw people in or to figure out where they are. And I thought that that was a pretty interesting way to live your life or [00:08:40] to have a career anyways when it comes to finding people, when it comes to solving problems, um, for other, for clients, for other people.

Speaker 3: Right. Because [00:08:50] at the end of the day, a private investigator is just an information mercenary and whoever's best at finding information is the most work. Um, so whatever [00:09:00] means that you can use that are legal to gather that information, uh, you use those and uh, the better you are at it, the more work you get.

Kyle: Yeah. Fair enough. [00:09:10] Okay. So you read the book mm-hmm. And then you go just look for places to, to work.

Speaker 3: Yes. And that was the challenge. Um, for sure. The finding a [00:09:20] job as a private investigator in BC is not an easy task. Um, there's limited options, uh, in terms of companies that are hiring. Uh, it's a smaller industry.

Speaker 3: [00:09:30] Um, so it took about eight months to find a company that was willing to even interview. Right. Um, I had to take a job, [00:09:40] so I found out on the internet that WorkSafe BC uses private investigators, or they, at least the use, I don't know if they still do, but they were using private [00:09:50] investigators, um, uh, as part of their surveillance program.

Speaker 3: And, uh, so I went and got a [00:10:00] job with them in security and I tried to figure out who those companies were that were, had those contracts.

Kyle: You went and go, got a job with WCB, just so you could figure out

Speaker 3: Well, I mean, it [00:10:10] was, it, it was two different approaches, right. One is you get a job in security at a well established company.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Or in this case, WorkSafe, bc [00:10:20] That looks good on your resume. Yeah. Combined with the Army. The degree. Yeah. So. I mean, it was also that, but also to figure out Yes, what companies [00:10:30]

Kyle: good private investigator work.

Speaker 3: Yeah, it was, didn't take too long. Um, but then once I figured out which companies had this contract and I, I can't state who they [00:10:40] are.

Speaker 3: Yeah, obviously. But I found one that was at a, uh, conference of some sort. Yeah. And, uh, approached them and then gave them my [00:10:50] resume and then just bothered their office manager until I got an interview. And then they interviewed three people for the job. Um, they tested us on the road to see [00:11:00] how we were with driving.

Speaker 3: Brought us through a few different test scenarios, why I'm driving. Well the position was for a surveillance investigator, so they have to know that [00:11:10] you can drive your car properly.

Stefen: Alright.

Speaker 3: That you're not timid, but you're also not reckless. Fair enough. Um, that you know when to. You know, you have basic [00:11:20] tactical instincts on how you set up on people, how you follow them, right?

Speaker 3: So you do this road test to make sure that they're not, you know, [00:11:30] extremely soft on the gas, but also not slamming on the brakes. Have a good idea of what distance to keep between people. Yeah. Things like this.

Kyle: So when you get hired back up like this, are [00:11:40] you getting trained as well afterwards on how to do all the work?

Kyle: Or how does the training work?

Speaker 3: Um, it is a little bit self-taught. I did receive some [00:11:50] training from the manager at the time. Uh, I think it was, I went out on two or three shifts with him. I think it was like something like 12 or 15 hours in total. Then after that. They would [00:12:00] just giving me assignments and I had to go figure it out on my own.

Speaker 3: Now the company that I was hired with, um, had a good team of surveillance investigators. Right. So I [00:12:10] used those guys as resources. Right. You know, to explain a little bit how to do the job properly. Yeah. What tricks do they have? Yeah. Um, sort of shadowing them. [00:12:20] And of course the manager was, you know, he was in communication with me as well, explaining.

Speaker 3: I would tell him what I did and he'd be like, you did this wrong, that wrong.

Kyle: So what kind of, like, what would be [00:12:30] an example of a, a case that you would've been working on?

Speaker 3: Right. So I mean, at the time I did surveillance, so it was largely, uh, insurance fraud cases, right? So you, you [00:12:40] would get a assignment, so and so is, is injured or allegedly injured.

Speaker 3: Go find out whether or not they're telling the truth about that. Right? So then you would just go and you [00:12:50] would conduct a surveillance shift on the person, sometimes multiple, just to get an idea like sitting

Kyle: outside their house or like going visiting their workplace or just what?

Speaker 3: Yeah, all of the above.

Speaker 3: Okay. Just [00:13:00] what are they doing day to day? This is what they're saying. Can you know, are they also telling the, how do you know? They're say

Kyle: how do you know what they're saying? If you're doing [00:13:10] surveillance, like you, you can do just audio pickup, think, no,

Speaker 3: no, this comes from the client. Right? The client will say, oh, okay, this is what the claim is.

Speaker 3: Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. Right. So the client is given [00:13:20] us the information of what they're saying and then we go and see if what they're doing is matching what they're saying. Okay.

Kyle: Actions line up with your words.

Speaker 3: Precisely.

Kyle: [00:13:30] Okay. Um, and uh, and so like, it would be like they say they can't like have a huge limp whatever and they're rock and fine.

Kyle: Like

Speaker 3: Exactly.

Kyle: Basic stuff like that. Okay. Okay. And so you [00:13:40] go from surveillance to, and what about other cases that are surveillance that aren't fraud? Is there

Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean sometimes you do surveillance just to find where somebody [00:13:50] is located. Hmm. Right. If, um, you need to serve, let's say legal documents in a lawsuit, right?

Speaker 3: And you know where the person works, but you don't know where they [00:14:00] live, um, and where they work is you can't access it, right? It's either secured parking garage or you know, you have to f your way into the building. Then [00:14:10] you'll just, as they leave in their vehicle, you'd follow them back to their residence and then serve them documents.

Speaker 3: Um, there's a little bit of infidelity work as [00:14:20] well where, you know, clients think their. Husband or their wife is being unfaithful and they'll hire surveillance as well. It's not so much of that here in BC [00:14:30] because we do have no fault divorce, but there's still some of it around. Um, mostly it's just peace of mind.

Speaker 3: So what's no fault

Kyle: divorce? What would it be in other kind of places?

Speaker 3: So there's states in America still that [00:14:40] have, where um, cheating within a marriage will have an impact on how the divorce plays out in court. Oh, okay. But here in BC it doesn't.

Kyle: Okay. Interesting. Okay. [00:14:50] And so how long are you doing that?

Kyle: So you're doing the eight years and then you decided to go on your own?

Speaker 3: Yeah, so I did two years as just a surveillance. Um, and then I started [00:15:00] the, was promoted to manager in the company that I was working for, primarily training new investigators. Um, but I also started doing more [00:15:10] interview work, taking statements, um, occasionally a little bit of finding people.

Speaker 3: Uh, I got introduced a little bit to open source intelligence [00:15:20] investigations, which is just. Finding people on the computer, tracking their movements on the computer. And, um, yeah, so I, I started and I still did [00:15:30] surveillance throughout the first eight years. Um, but also a little bit of management, a little bit of marketing started to get to better understanding of the entire world of private [00:15:40] investigations.

Speaker 3: Yeah. As opposed to just the surveillance aspect.

Kyle: Yeah. Okay. And, uh, what would be some of the things that surprised you about the work? [00:15:50] Like especially in the first years that you were doing it? Like it's not boring, like when you're doing surveillance, uh, of, uh, so if an insurance fraud, you're sitting somewhere [00:16:00] for six hours, it doesn't drive you nuts.

Kyle: Like you don't mind doing that.

Speaker 3: Um, it does drive me nuts. Uh, I think it drives almost everybody nuts, but surveillance is long periods of [00:16:10] being bored outta your mind, followed by pure adrenaline once they get moving prison and now you have to break from this sort of [00:16:20] static. Um, scenario that you've, you've been in for sometimes for long periods of time, and if in hot weather you're sweating profusely in cold weather, you're [00:16:30] wearing, you know, 20 layers.

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. Um, and then suddenly you have to get moving. And then all of the um, all [00:16:40] of the tactics, the techniques, the things you have to do to follow someone successfully, suddenly just have to be done. Quickly, you have to make that transition, [00:16:50] that switch. Uh, and that is challenging, but um, it kind of makes the boring part worth it.

Speaker 3: Okay. Um, especially if you're successful. If you're not successful, that's, then [00:17:00] it's good dopamine hit, it's a great dopamine hit. It's a good adrenaline hit as well. Yeah. Okay.

Kyle: Interesting. And how, and sitting there for hours, like what do you, what do you do? [00:17:10] You just go to, because you can't be distracted by something else and miss

Speaker 3: the person coming their head.

Speaker 3: No, no. You have to keep your eyes up a hundred percent. Right? So some people [00:17:20] listen to podcasts or listen to books on tape or music or something like that, softly, maybe just in one ear, right? 'cause you also wanna listen to your surroundings to make sure that there's not somebody [00:17:30] standing outside your vehicle when suddenly you decide, Hey, I'm gonna reach, you know, get my lunch.

Speaker 3: And then you realize there's someone standing right there. Um, [00:17:40] so I mean, this is sort of what I did as well, right? Listen to books on tape with just one ear pod in and, uh. Let my mind wander a little bit. Yeah. You know, write [00:17:50] about some certain things. Yeah. Uh, stuff like that.

Kyle: And will you, like, so your company now, do you do surveillance still or is it more, are you more specialized in a different area?

Speaker 3: I still do some [00:18:00] surveillance. Um, it, it comes in fairly regularly. It's, it is not the, the main thing I do anymore though. Right. [00:18:10] Um, there are companies that really specialize in surveillance. I worked for two of them. Um, if somebody wants like a, a surveillance done, these are the companies you want to go to.[00:18:20]

Speaker 3: I mean, you can use my company as well. I'm just as good as they're, but I don't have, um, like a dedicated department to that only.

Speaker 4: Fair enough.

Speaker 3: Right. But you, if you do [00:18:30] surveillance with my company. It's either myself or one other guy doing it, and he's a guy I trained and, uh, we're both quite good at it. So you don't get a, a [00:18:40] lesser product.

Speaker 3: But we are a little bit more expensive, I would say, than the average, um, surveillance only department.

Kyle: Hmm, okay. And, and what kind of like, so I [00:18:50] come from the business world mainly, that's where my experience comes from. Do private businesses use private investigators and for what kind of stuff would be, yeah,

Speaker 3: absolutely.

Speaker 3: Um, once again, [00:19:00] sorry. Do you mind if I turn this off? No.

Speaker 3: So, [00:19:10] yeah. Um, can you repeat the question? I got distracted

Kyle: there. Yeah. In the business world, what, like, what, what do guys use PIs for?

Speaker 3: Right. So, I mean, uh, for private [00:19:20] companies there's a variety of different uses when it as private investigator, right? Because once again, all we do is we find information that potentially you need and can't find on your own.[00:19:30]

Speaker 3: I mean, I've helped, uh, private businesses with an employees that they think might be either stealing for from the company [00:19:40] or gathering, you know, uh, copyrighted or trademarked work from the company with the plans to move to another one. I've helped, um, [00:19:50] with a little bit of surveillance on different members of the, the company to see if they're using drugs on, at, at work or, or even in their [00:20:00] home life, if the, the job is something where you really shouldn't be doing that, that kind of thing.

Stefen: Yeah.

Speaker 3: Um, I've helped companies decide whether or not they should be investing in other [00:20:10] companies just by doing, I would, I would, I like to call it asymmetrical market research. Um, basically what I do is I tell you why you shouldn't [00:20:20] invest in a company. I find all the reasons why you shouldn't.

Stefen: Hmm.

Speaker 3: Right.

Speaker 3: So it only, that particular kind of assignment only works if you already have people who are telling you why you should. [00:20:30] Then I just counterbalance that. Um, if you,

Kyle: so how, how much can you find out about a company without being in the company?

Speaker 3: An enormous amount.

Kyle: [00:20:40] Okay.

Speaker 3: Yes.

Kyle: Through just like interviewing employees and things like that?

Kyle: No,

Speaker 3: so we would, we take a very hands off approach at first, right? So we just, for example, if you're [00:20:50] a construction company, um, and you're looking to merge with another construction company, uh, and you just wanna get an idea of what that company is like, [00:21:00] um, or you're planning to invest in enormous amount of money in that company, you might want to know things like how many times have they been fined by WorkSafe bc and [00:21:10] for how much have they had any serious workplace accidents, and have they taken steps to address that?

Speaker 3: You would want to know a little bit about the key [00:21:20] people inside that organization that are driving that company. You know, if the CEO is excellent, but your foreman is. That might be a little bit of a problem. [00:21:30] Um, I've never particularly worked a file exactly like that. Um, mostly it's white collar stuff, but these are things that a private investigator could find out [00:21:40] either through interviews or through online research or through just

Kyle: different tricks.

Kyle: Yeah. So in how do you withhold your own personal judgment of what might be [00:21:50] happening versus just sharing what you've observed? Because it's like in coaching, for example, when you're, uh, one of the things in training they teach you is to check your story, [00:22:00] which means basically check your beliefs at the door.

Kyle: And so someone's sharing something with you. Make no assumptions on the reasons why or because you just don't know the full story yet. So [00:22:10] to gather more information and don't like, assume things, is that, how do you do that in the private investigator work? 'cause you might, you know, have a, a bias towards, you [00:22:20] know, someone that.

Kyle: You know, wears white hard hats because they're, you know, they're always the foreman or whatever. Mm-hmm. That, like, how, how do you, do you think about that when you,

Speaker 3: yeah. [00:22:30] This is something that you have to start early in suppressing the idea that, that you can develop theories if you want.

Stefen: Yeah.

Speaker 3: Which I do a lot and I'll write [00:22:40] them down.

Speaker 3: Um, and then I'll test those theories somewhat similar to like a scientific method. Um, but assumptions are quite [00:22:50] dangerous. So I try not to assume anything. What I'll do is I'll develop a theory from the information that I'm getting, right. But then I have to also then [00:23:00] do the opposite side of that, where I'll be like, okay, why is my theory potentially wrong?

Speaker 4: Hmm.

Speaker 3: Um, and this is a system that I use, uh, almost exclusively, which would be. [00:23:10] Here, here's the information that I have. Here's my theory that I've developed. Okay, now I'm gonna prove my own theory wrong.

Stefen: Hmm.

Speaker 3: Okay. I think I proved my theory wrong. It's time to go to the next one [00:23:20] to develop a new one, develop a new theory and a new idea of why this is happening.

Speaker 3: Uh, and then use that same system again. So sometimes like I'll undo the investigative work [00:23:30] and then I'll investigate my own investigative work and, and see if it stands up to, okay.

Kyle: Yeah. And has that carried, like, you've been doing this for 10 years now, or more than that? [00:23:40] Has it carried over into your personal life where you're like, um, with religious stuff or other things like that?

Kyle: Or like relationships where you find yourself being just gathering information and not making [00:23:50] judgements quick or like other things like that? Just things that,

Speaker 3: yeah, it's, you can't really turn it off, um, once it's on. Right. So one of the things that you. [00:24:00] Is it, you know, you have to develop as a, a PI is the ability to read people.

Speaker 3: Right. And that's something you can't turn off once it's developed and, and [00:24:10] it's working for you. Right. So I do find myself in many situations, like social settings, just studying people and be like, okay, I gotta go be normal. It's, you know, let's [00:24:20] talk to somebody about, you know, what's going on in the world.

Kyle: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: Um, but yeah, I mean, the, the way I work and, and the job that I do, it does carry over into [00:24:30] my personal life. Um, but it's not

Kyle: because you're not solve puzzles basically. Right. So you, you help essentially. Right. It help think about it a lot.

Speaker 3: It, it's not like the way, you know, a police officer takes their work [00:24:40] home, right.

Speaker 3: Where they have quite a bit of. Trauma potentially. And it can affect like their happiness or the way they interact with their family. Right. I don't [00:24:50] have that as much, so the things that carry over from my work into my private life aren't really a problem. Right. It's just something that I have to like, catch myself doing.

Stefen: Yeah. [00:25:00]

Speaker 3: And be like, okay, you know, this is a situation where, um, like it's a kid's birthday party. You know, stop figuring puzzles out. Yeah. You know, and [00:25:10] go push, you know, somebody on the swing or,

Kyle: yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. What about, um, just learning, like you're investing a lot of different people and seeing a lot of different people and get to know information [00:25:20] that isn't easily available about, like, I think you even said you've investigated politicians before.

Kyle: Mm-hmm. Things like that. Like, does it, has it, uh, changed your view on like, the depravity of people or [00:25:30] just like the craziness of things? Like,

Speaker 3: YI, this is something I do have to be careful with as well, because it has, however. For the most part, when [00:25:40] somebody picks up their phone to call someone like me, there's a problem.

Speaker 3: Right? So I do end up seeing a lot of the, I wouldn't [00:25:50] say the worst parts of human beings, but I see a lot of the more depraved parts of human beings quite often. Um,

Kyle: like what would be some of the things you see?

Speaker 3: I mean, [00:26:00] um, recent case from I think in this last spring was, uh, a wife was just [00:26:10] not sure about her husband, and then we found, you know, just a, an enormously long string of prostitutes of this man I've been seeing.

Speaker 3: Oh. [00:26:20] Um, and I mean, across the spectrum, not just your average, regular, everyday. Yeah. Um, and you kind of are like, you know, like how do you balance these [00:26:30] two things? So you feel, communicate

Kyle: that to her then?

Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's always a tough conversation as well. Um, I, I tr infidelity assignments are, [00:26:40] it's the one assignment where if you're successful, you're bringing bad news.

Stefen: Hmm.

Speaker 3: Um, which makes it uncomfortable. 'cause on the one hand [00:26:50] you're like, yes, you know, I've done the work that my client wants to do, but on the other hand, you know, your client's not gonna be happy.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Speaker 3: Not necessarily with you, but just about the situation. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and that's like the one [00:27:00] type of investigative work where your success is somebody else's tragedy.

Kyle: Yeah. And what about politicians, like you do the, like who would you do the background work for? [00:27:10] Would you, would it be for like the liberal party would say, do an investigation on this, potential candidates can run for us, or,

Speaker 3: yeah. So I, I vet politicians, uh, or before they [00:27:20] become politicians usually. Um, and uh, basically I just do a, a deep dive into their background, social media, their, the way they've lived their life.[00:27:30]

Speaker 3: Find out if there's any problems or flaws. And then I communicate that to whatever party has hired me and they ultimately make the decision of whether or not they still run with the person. [00:27:40] My job is just to gather every bit of information I can deliver that to them, and then they make the decision in terms of who they're gonna hire and who they're not.

Speaker 3: I [00:27:50] send my recommendation, but it's not, you know, it's not my call. Yeah. At the end of the day. Yeah. So, yeah, and I mean, doing that job [00:28:00] you realize quickly, you know, that politicians are no different, for the most part from anybody else. Probably worse, you know, you [00:28:10] find like some absolute, like yeah, you find some people who are obviously have some problems, but you also find some absolutely incredible people in the mix as well, [00:28:20] who, you know, you really start to root for a little bit going through the background.

Speaker 3: Um, but of course you, you know, I can't [00:28:30] necessarily. I would never be out there campaigning for anybody. Right.

Stefen: Yeah. Because yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3: Um, that's part of my job is to stay in the shadows. Yeah. But, uh, but yeah, you, [00:28:40] you do find good people as well. Yeah.

Kyle: So your dad was a political science professor, I think.

Kyle: Yeah, that's right. SA few. Did dad have any effect on what you do now or like your career choice to go into like the [00:28:50] military or be a private investigator? Like was there any, 'cause you're in a home that's, that's I'm assuming, being talked about a lot. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3: Yeah. So I mean, politics is something that is discussed [00:29:00] ad nauseum, you know, inside of our house.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Um, history as well. So, you know, in terms of what my job is, uh, as a private [00:29:10] investigator, it, it doesn't have as much of effect. I do some work for magazine in Europe, which deals, you know, uh, in politics and culture. So in that case, [00:29:20] there's overlap between what I do and what my dad do. You have a,

Kyle: a client that's a magazine in Europe.

Speaker 3: Yes.

Kyle: Doing that, you're doing private, private investigator work for

Speaker 3: sort of, right. [00:29:30] Um, like I'm, I'm an investigator, not a journalist. Um, and the, I, I'm teamed with a person who is, you know, an investigative journalist, [00:29:40] but more on the journalism side than the investigative side. So instead of one person, um, exploring that particular job, right, investigating a case, it's [00:29:50] kind of been split into two because your investigator will come along and present pure facts.

Speaker 3: That's it. Like there's, uh, there's no bias behind it for the most part. [00:30:00] Um, you can add your own, like he adds his own color to it as well. But it works in the sense that if I disagree, because [00:30:10] something I've discovered does not match what's being written. Um. I, it's not like a win, but like I can point to specific [00:30:20] facts.

Speaker 3: Um, and then when you're, if you're just doing it by yourself, like the way I work as an investigator, I was talking about the way you develop a theory and then you test it. That can get [00:30:30] missed in the world of journalism. And I think we see that a lot in today's society. Hmm. Right. So having a separate investigator to the actual work of the journalist creates sort of a [00:30:40] barrier between, um, mixing the bias in with the facts, trying to prove your own theory as opposed to figure out Yeah.

Speaker 3: And accountability to a certain degree and Exactly. Right. Because if [00:30:50] my work is this, but you're writing something different, we're gonna have a conflict. Um, and it works really well. I get along great with the, the journalists, so [00:31:00] Cool. Yeah, it's been an, it's been nice.

Kyle: Yeah. You, as mentioned, there's a work you do for private companies like businesses in terms of like getting contracts or [00:31:10] bidding on.

Kyle: Different like government tenders or d different things like that and just seeing what's available and mm-hmm. Speak to that. What,

Speaker 3: yes. So, [00:31:20] um, the way governments hand out contracts, um, is, varies across whatever industry you're in, [00:31:30] but what I've, one thing I've noticed is the, the gap between the person that is going to benefit from the contractor and the person that picks the [00:31:40] contractor, right?

Speaker 3: So a lot of people will write their contracts assuming that the people that they'll end up dealing with or the ones reviewing it, but they're not, it's a completely [00:31:50] different department altogether, right? So what I do is I come in and I sort take the contract bid that you're writing and I tailor it towards [00:32:00] that department as opposed to who you will actually end up working for.

Stefen: Okay.

Speaker 3: Um, and this is done. Both by [00:32:10] historical analysis of other contracts, similar contracts that they've written that have been published or the client may have access to. Um, [00:32:20] partially done on research I'll do on that specific department within that company what they like, what they don't like, what they're looking for.

Speaker 3: Uh, and usually there's, [00:32:30] even if you're writing a 200 page contract, there's like six things or five things that is really crucial that you have to hit.

Kyle: Yeah.

Speaker 3: Um, [00:32:40] and if you can figure out what those things are and hit them, then there, you know, you, even if there's mistakes other places in your contract where even if you're slightly [00:32:50] higher financially than others, but you've got those things that they want, you still have a good shot of getting it.

Speaker 3: Um, and they can be. [00:33:00] Sort of innocuous to the, as the, when you're writing the contract, you assume these are gonna be the important things 'cause this is what we're good at.

Kyle: Yeah.

Speaker 3: Right. But it can [00:33:10] be something way over the field. So this could be anything from

Kyle: like, uh, like building a highway or, or, or like is it just like any sort of tender, tender work or is it

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 3: [00:33:20] So construction I is one that I have not ever, uh, worked with before. Yeah. Usually it's, once again, it's like white collar bidding. Okay. Yeah. These types of things. [00:33:30] Um, so yeah, it's, uh, it is just, it's all about [00:33:40] figuring out precisely what that department wants, what they are specifically are looking for.

Speaker 3: Um, and even though. You get that [00:33:50] contract, you'll never speak with those people again until it's time for that contract to be written again. Um, you have to tailor that contract to those Yeah, fair enough to that crew. Yeah. [00:34:00]

Kyle: And you said in, I think last time we chatted, you said, in Europe a lot of companies have a PI private investigator on staff.

Speaker 3: Yeah, [00:34:10] so some, a lot of firms, I wouldn't say a lot of firms, but I've noticed more in Europe that firms, larger companies will just simply have a private [00:34:20] investigator usually on retainer. I wouldn't say they're on staff, usually on retainer to just whenever there's an information problem within the company, to just have someone that [00:34:30] can step in and figure it out.

Speaker 3: As opposed to taking, let's say a, a manager from a department that already has his own responsibilities. [00:34:40] Taking him out of that position and having him run around, try to figure out, you know. Whatever the issue is, whatever conflict is going on within [00:34:50] the company. Now, normally hr, uh, and really big firms will do this, but, um, I'm, it's most, it's the [00:35:00] businesses that are not quite that big where they have like a fully staffed HR department, but they're big enough to have, you know, higher revenues, you know, you know, [00:35:10] seven or eight figure revenues, but they haven't really got a full blown, this is the director of hr.

Speaker 3: These are the hiring managers, these are the hiring staff. Uh, it's more like, uh, you [00:35:20] know, two or three people within that department. Do you know why it's more in Europe than here? Uh, the private investigative world is a little bit more developed in Europe than it is out here in [00:35:30] Canada. Um, now, once again, I haven't dug really deep into why that is in Europe as opposed to here, uh.

Speaker 3: Um, [00:35:40] but you know, we will attend to conferences sometimes with the World Association of Detectives and European investigators will come in and they'll talk about some of the work they're doing in [00:35:50] Europe, and we're like, good. You know, even though we can do the same work they do it, it just, those markets don't exist here in Canada.

Stefen: Exactly.

Speaker 3: Um, [00:36:00] uh, for example, there's one firm, um, that exclusively does, um, intellectual property [00:36:10] investigations, right? So you have a company in Europe that's producing, let's say, nice shoes and another company in a different country. [00:36:20] Let's say the shoes are being produced in France. Another company, let's say in, um, Slovakia will take your [00:36:30] shoe and print it themselves and sell them for half the price.

Speaker 3: Now this is a huge problem. Um, however, there's no. Way that the [00:36:40] French company can shut that Slovak company down because they're not within their, it's not the same jurisdiction. They can't take 'em to French court.

Stefen: Yeah,

Speaker 3: right. So they'll hire [00:36:50] the investigative company to go in and they use all these different tricks to figure out everything about the company, [00:37:00] where they're making the shoes, who's involved, what company owns it.

Speaker 3: And then they, the, the company that's making the shoes in France will be able to go into Slovakia, take [00:37:10] that evidence into Slovakian courts, hire a lawyer there, uh, and get them shut down. And this is exclusively what they do. And they do, and they're [00:37:20] a large company working full time. So. These are things that I just don't see in Canada at all.

Speaker 3: You see a little bit here and there, but once [00:37:30] again, European Europe is set up a little differently, right. Where you have all these different countries with their own jurisdictions. Yeah. But they're still part of the European Union. Yeah. So there's more potential for companies [00:37:40]

Kyle: to scam each other and

Speaker 3: to scam each other across these borders.

Speaker 3: They're quite a

Kyle: bit different from Canada to the us

Speaker 3: Yes. Us. Well, yes and no. The US every state [00:37:50] is different, which makes it a little bit tough for a private investigator in the United States to work across all these different state lines with their own different rules, laws.

Kyle: Yeah.

Speaker 3: [00:38:00] Um, so, you know, like the way we work at, say, in British Columbia is fairly similar to Washington State.

Speaker 3: However, [00:38:10] the way we work in Canada compared to Florida is vastly different. Hmm. Uh, same with like a state like New York, uh, quite a bit different [00:38:20] private investigators in the United States. Some of these states, they also have. Like a certain amount of, not authoritative power, but they do get access to some government databases.

Speaker 3: Whereas [00:38:30] here in Canada, we do not get access to any government databases that, that the average person does not have access to as well.

Kyle: Fair enough. What rules, rules are in place for [00:38:40] PIs? Like, can, can you get more information than a private citizen could? Like do you have any more rights to information?

Speaker 3: Nope. Okay. No, you and I have the exact same right. To gather information. [00:38:50] I just do it for a living. That's it.

Kyle: Okay. And so, 'cause you can't, like, um, like what would be some of the things you can't do that maybe some, some people [00:39:00] assume that you can do?

Speaker 3: Yeah, so we can't check vehicle registration here in bc.

Speaker 3: That's ICBC does not share that information with, um, [00:39:10] anybody outside of law enforcement. Yeah. So. There are parts of the United States that you can check license plate information, um, and they sometimes will [00:39:20] phone us here and be seen and be like, Hey, I just need this vehicle checked. It's like, sorry, we don't have access to that.

Stefen: Yeah.

Speaker 3: Um, so yeah, any like government [00:39:30] database that has some sort of security clearance, we would not have access to that at all. We can't check to see if, you know, like if somebody has committed a crime here in BC a serious crime, [00:39:40] like we don't have access to that report.

Stefen: Yeah.

Speaker 3: You know, we might have access to some parts of it.

Speaker 3: We can file a freedom of information, uh, request and then the report will come to us, but [00:39:50] it'll be extremely redacted. Yeah. Like we just don't, we can't just get a copy.

Kyle: Yeah. Fair enough.

Speaker 3: There's also, um, and you know, Hollywood has really [00:40:00] done a number on this particular one. We don't just have a police officer on speed dial.

Speaker 3: To be like, Hey, what's going on? Can you check this? It doesn't [00:40:10] happen. Right. Not only does that risk my business license, the police officer could lose his job. Right. So we just, we don't do that, you know, it doesn't happen.

Kyle: Fair

Speaker 3: enough. [00:40:20]

Kyle: So would you be able to do, would you do work, like, um, for example, a dad calls and says like, Hey, I wanna know what my son's up to, uh, on the weekends.

Kyle: Um, like, go find that out.

Speaker 3: [00:40:30] Yes. Yes. I mean, there's some restrictions, of course. Um, to, and we have to be very careful with those types of files, right? So when I take in a file, [00:40:40] the, you have to give me a valid reason as to why you need this information. I don't just work because you want something, like, I want to know everything about this [00:40:50] person.

Speaker 3: It's like, well, why, why do you want to know this information? And if there's not a valid reason behind it, you cannot hire me. Right? I don't. Or you just won't do the work. I just won't do the work. [00:41:00] Why? I just won't. You know, be like, listen, when you have a valid reason that I can write into my contract Yeah.

Speaker 3: That you will sign, um, gimme a call. [00:41:10] But I'm not just finding out everything about somebody because you know you and without a reason. Yeah. Right. That's how you get into [00:41:20] problems where you get sued. Right. Somebody wants all that information because it turns out you know that this person, you know, made a pass at their wife last weekend and now they're heading over there with a [00:41:30] baseball bat.

Speaker 3: Right? Like, you don't want to put yourself into a situation like that at all. Um, facilitating, facilitating, even though that would be

Kyle: that person's responsibility. Like it, it's [00:41:40] reliable. Partially,

Speaker 3: well, I mean, to a certain degree, right? If you're facilitating, right. Like if, if somebody comes to me and they give me.[00:41:50]

Speaker 3: You know, I need to find this person and I need to have a background on them because, you know, I've lent him a hundred thousand dollars and he said he was gonna pay [00:42:00] it back in this time period, not a single payment has been made. Can you find out where he is, what he's doing? Um, and then I'm going to go ahead and file a lawsuit.[00:42:10]

Speaker 3: Yes, I can do that for you, right? But you will sign a contract saying that this is why I'm finding the person, and this is what you've requested. Now, if you were lying to me [00:42:20] and you actually just wanted to find this person so you could threaten them or intimidate them in any way, um, I have an in indemnification clause in my contract stating that if [00:42:30] they sue you and me, right, as a accessory, whatever monies are owed from my company, you have to pay.[00:42:40]

Speaker 3: Right? And this protects me from clients that are lying to me when they. I do try to verify to a certain degree clients, um, international clients are much harder. [00:42:50]

Kyle: How often do you have to say no to a client that comes to you

Speaker 3: Quite often.

Kyle: Okay.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Kyle: Because you don't think the reason's good enough or because they just, they're

Speaker 3: [00:43:00] sometimes they just don't want to give a reason.

Speaker 3: Hmm. Um, and I mean, this is a non-starter for me. Um, sometimes he'll give me a reason [00:43:10] that is something I suspect is a lie. Um, and sometimes it's just a situation where it's either [00:43:20] not my specialty whatsoever or, um, what they're asking for is impossible. Right. And in these situations I decline. Um, [00:43:30] 'cause I, I don't, I'm not gonna just take your money and then knowing that absolutely I can't do this.

Stefen: Yeah.

Speaker 3: There's no scenario where I'll take a file like [00:43:40] that if I can help. Absolutely. I'll take your money.

Stefen: Yeah.

Speaker 3: But if I can't, I'm not going to. Fair enough. That's not how I do business.

Kyle: What about like, uh, abuse cases? Let's say like [00:43:50] someone's suspicious that someone's abusing some kids or whatever else like that and they just don't have enough evidence to do something with it.

Kyle: How do you, like, would you take a case like that and [00:44:00]

Speaker 3: Yeah. So the first thing you have to do is be careful whether or not the police are already investigating. 'cause I do not run a parallel investigation when police are already.

Kyle: And how would you know that? Is that, would that be public [00:44:10] or that would just only be if they would know?

Speaker 3: It might be public, but it, I would also directly ask the client or the police investigating what's the file number.

Kyle: Okay.

Speaker 3: Um, now if the case is cold, the police aren't actively [00:44:20] working it, then I can run my own because there's nothing being done on their side.

Kyle: Why wouldn't you do it simultaneously?

Speaker 3: Because you, you never know, like the police don't publish what they're doing and [00:44:30] who they're talking to. And you never know when you're gonna accidentally stick your nose into a spot. Where they've got some sort of setup or some sort of plan, or they've already talked to this [00:44:40] person. Um, and you just, you don't want to in any way impede what the, what the police are actively doing.

Speaker 3: And since they don't share information with us for good reason, [00:44:50] um, I'm just, those are situations where it's like, if the police are investigating it this way, like maybe I can do a little bit of background digitally. [00:45:00] Um, because even if the police are doing their own digital background, which I know they do, they're not gonna release it to you.

Speaker 3: Yeah. But I can do it and release it to you. It won't be as thorough as them if they have [00:45:10] access to all these police databases, but at least give you a better understanding of who this person is. Um, so I can do that somewhat simultaneously because there's, [00:45:20] it, it's not something where there's any interference.

Speaker 3: Right. I'm just finding stuff on the internet. Yeah. Um, and the various corners of the internet and delivering. [00:45:30] That package to, to the client. However, when it comes to canvassing, knocking on doors, if the police are also doing this, um, not right. First of [00:45:40] all, it's a waste of the client's money. Secondly, you never know what they're up to and whether or not you're going to accidentally step on [00:45:50] their toes.

Speaker 3: And I mean, that would be a disaster. Right? You don't want to accidentally harm the person that you're working for.

Kyle: Yeah.

Speaker 3: Even though you didn't know.

Kyle: Okay. So let's say the police aren't involved and you have an, [00:46:00] someone comes to you and says, Hey, I think this guy's abusing a bunch of kids in the school.

Kyle: Um, just a hunch, this is kind of evidence I have. Mm-hmm. Uh, would that be [00:46:10] a case you would take or,

Speaker 3: yeah. This would be a case I would take. Yeah. I mean, um, once again, I can't, I don't have any powers of a police officer. Right. So I can find information to [00:46:20] the best of my ability, speak to people. Um, I.

Speaker 3: Certainly try to find maybe even some surveillance work. Certainly try to get to the, the truth on [00:46:30] the, on the case. But you know, I can't stick somebody in an interview room and get them to talk to me.

Kyle: No.

Speaker 3: Okay. Right. If somebody is going to talk to me, it has to be voluntary.

Kyle: Um, [00:46:40] but would you, would you voluntarily without like, um, saying, Hey, I'm an press private investigator, just like

Speaker 3: say, I mean, I don't have [00:46:50] to declare who I am or what I'm doing.

Speaker 3: Okay. Um, you know. W some interviews is just like this, my name is this your Kyle? [00:47:00] Yeah. We're talking about this red. Um, but if the person who we suspect or is suspected or is in the sphere of the person that we suspect, no, I wouldn't approach [00:47:10] them straight on. This would be something I came at from an angle of some sort.

Kyle: But what if, let's say, you know, they're going to a coffee shop every morning and then you go start gonna the coffee shop and you make sure you're in line with them and [00:47:20] like build a relationship with them that way. Like is that something that you could do like Oh yeah, absolutely. You done something like that?

Speaker 3: I have.

Kyle: Cool. I'm careful when I'm actually run into you in the [00:47:30] coffee shop. Um, what about the dark, dark web? Like, that's something that I think there's probably a lot of information, misinformation about it as well. So you have maybe in like a layman's terms, [00:47:40] uh, or like for dummies, like your private investigative book.

Kyle: Like what's, what is the dark web? I think there's three versions right there. There's a regular internet and there's something else, and there's like a,

Speaker 3: yeah, so the [00:47:50] regular internet and then there's the deep web, which is still accessible from the clearnet or regular internet. Uh, it's just harder to find.

Speaker 3: And then the [00:48:00] Darknet is, is separate altogether. This is something that you have to have a special website to use. Tour is the most common one. Um, and it [00:48:10] operates anonymously, right? So. Your IP address. Most people will use A VPN if they're gonna go into the dark web. Right. But essentially your IP address is, is not [00:48:20] connected.

Speaker 3: Uh, it's bouncing around the world as you use this, and it creates a level of anonymity, um, not necessarily to law enforcement [00:48:30] because I mean, they're the ones that built it. Um, law enforcement

Kyle: built that dark web.

Speaker 3: Yeah, the original,

Kyle: like what, what is the dark web and what would be like the [00:48:40] level below it that's still accessible through the clearnet?

Kyle: You said? Like what, in more layman's terms, like what, is it just still, you know, just URLs and in different websites, or is it like [00:48:50] how

Speaker 3: to a certain degree, yes. Except it, instead of typing in, let's say, you know, www w do furiously curiously.com, you would have to have what's called [00:49:00] an onion route path. I, I think I'm screwing that up a little bit.

Speaker 3: But essentially it's like a long hash. Followed by Onion and [00:49:10] that takes it to the website. Right? So the website itself is not necessarily, um, searchable obvious or searchable. Mm. Like you can't just pop in Google and find [00:49:20] Yeah. Right. The whatever website you're going to in the dark web, you have to know about it beforehand and then go there and they change them regularly.

Speaker 3: And, um, but [00:49:30] essentially you're anonymous.

Kyle: And one would be on the dark web. That would just be like,

Speaker 3: uh, there's all sorts of things on the dark web. Um, I mean, they have their own version of Twitter or [00:49:40] Acts, they have their own version of Reddit. They, you know, you can, who's

Speaker 4: they? Like it gets,

Speaker 3: I'm just speaking in general

Speaker 4: about, okay, yeah.

Speaker 4: But someone's

Kyle: built this, obviously some, yeah. [00:49:50] Yeah.

Speaker 3: It's, it's, some parts of it are just perfectly normal to the most part, but everything is completely anonymous. And this is the one key, right? Because if you're [00:50:00] using the internet and you're putting your name out there, um, someone like me can find. Yeah, no problem.

Speaker 3: But on the dark web, I have no [00:50:10] clue who anybody in there is. I can sort of scratch at the cer, you know, try to figure out to a certain degree, but it's very, very hard, [00:50:20] um, to track who people are or what they're doing. And you can find, you can, I mean, it's used anonymously for very nefarious reasons often, [00:50:30] and, um, from anything from buying guns illegally to, you know, um, purchasing, [00:50:40] pretty much anything you can think of is, is done there for sale.

Speaker 3: Um, so I mean, we do use it to a certain [00:50:50] degree, uh, to find information, uh, about people. But it, it's more something that I would use in [00:51:00] specific cases if we have an idea. That the person is, is using it. And then we try to find them, uh, in the regular internet, and then we can [00:51:10] try to find them using information from there to find 'em in the dark web.

Speaker 3: Um, but there's al there's just an endless troves of [00:51:20] information like breach data, for example. So much of it down there,

Kyle: breach data would be some, someone like a website got hacked. All their data is accessible. Yeah,

Speaker 3: precisely. [00:51:30] Um, and I mean, this is not stuff that we necessarily would use in a, like a courtroom Right.

Speaker 3: But just as a starting place to, you know, [00:51:40] what person's name or email addresses. Yeah, for sure. Hmm.

Kyle: Okay. And, and, uh, what is, um, like AI is taking off

Speaker 3: mm-hmm.

Kyle: More and [00:51:50] more. And does that affect your work at all? Like, does it make it easier or harder or

Speaker 3: it's making it easier to a certain degree. Uh, especially with, [00:52:00] uh, the way.

Speaker 3: Databases are speeding up and becoming more accurate using ai. Mm-hmm. Um, so searches that would [00:52:10] take, you know, quite a bit of time previously, and you have to have the keywords perfect. Um, and the exact information properly. AI is not like, Hey, you [00:52:20] know, here's like the best five, but there's also like 50 other things down here that are kind of close.

Speaker 3: Yeah. So, you know, help yourself. And that's [00:52:30] quite nice, right. Because, you know, maybe the first five, uh, like I made a mistake of some sort, or Yeah. The information that was given to me was wrong or incomplete [00:52:40] and AI will then finish it off for me. Yeah. And that's quite nice. Yeah. Yeah. Um,

Kyle: uh, I, I feel like Canada's becoming more and more of a surveillance state, like knowing a lot [00:52:50] more about their, like the government knowing way more about, um, their people than maybe they should.

Kyle: Uh, do you, do you run into that as well? Like as you're doing your own private investigative work, you can probably [00:53:00] see what other people are. Have access to or mm-hmm. Would you, would you agree with that, that it's the government has quite a bit of, uh, like the furthest reach? [00:53:10]

Speaker 3: Yes. I mean, obviously law enforcement will have by far, the most information about people, um, in their databases, but [00:53:20] to a certain degree, the way the police investigate people is different from us because of the way they start and the way we start.

Speaker 3: We assume that, [00:53:30] I mean, we'll get like one small paragraph from the client. Yeah. And now we have to go figure it out. Whereas the police will get, you know, a name and date of birth, and then they've got a bunch of [00:53:40] different databases to go as a starting place. They have access to driver's license information, uh, and things like that.

Speaker 3: You know, residential status, or sorry, citizenship [00:53:50] status, things like this. So we, we start from different spots when, when it comes to an investigation, but in terms of how much reach, uh, the government has. [00:54:00] Um, I haven't really noticed this as a private investigator so much. I've noticed it in Europe for sure, but here in Canada, if there are changes being made, [00:54:10] they're relatively subtle.

Speaker 3: Uh, our privacy laws are, you know, they haven't really changed so much in the last few years, whereas Europe's has quite a bit, [00:54:20] uh, more lenient, no, much stricter. Oh, okay. Um, so I don't know if those changes are coming to Canada, but it's one of those things, if it does happen, we'll just adapt to [00:54:30] it. Yeah.

Speaker 3: You know, there's always a way. Yeah.

Kyle: So how do you, how does, how do you take someone on, as a client? Let's say someone reach out, reaches out and says, Hey, I wanna see if I can get these government [00:54:40] contracts. Mm-hmm. Can you like, align these things? Like how, how, or maybe it's something else, may, how do they,

Speaker 3: yeah.

Speaker 3: So. A client will come to me either by email or [00:54:50] phone, but eventually we're gonna have to talk on the phone. Um, and the, this is called the initial consultation, where it's like, this is my problem. And, [00:55:00] um, this is the information that I'm hoping to find, and this is my ultimate goal and objective, and this is important.

Speaker 3: Sometimes clients just explain the problem, but they [00:55:10] don't add their finishing. What, what do you want from me? Specifically? What's your goal? What's your objective? So I'll always lead the conversation towards that. Uh, and [00:55:20] then I'll, we'll have a discussion about what I can and can't do, uh, and whether or not it's a feasible project, it's something I can take on and give you, uh, value for your money, [00:55:30] right?

Speaker 3: I always look at it in a case like that specifically, right? If I can help you make money, at least. Three times more [00:55:40] than what you're paying me, I will take that file. However, if it's a situation where you are gonna break even, or maybe even potentially lose this money on me, I'm gonna [00:55:50] warn you about that right up front.

Speaker 3: Um, it's not saying I won't take the file on. 'cause sometimes people aren't motivated.

Kyle: Do you quote by hour or do you quote by job?

Speaker 3: Usually by hour. Yeah. [00:56:00] Um, so it's sometimes people just are willing to spend the money because they have, you know, it's peace of mind thing or, you know, it's, they're [00:56:10] more, they want the information more than they're willing, than they're want to keep their money, essentially.

Speaker 3: Yeah. But in a case like that where somebody is asking me to find information as part of a [00:56:20] government bid after the consultation, and we've worked out whether or not I can help. Um, we get to a spot where I'll send you my contract and [00:56:30] this is sort of a catchall contract for all my clients. Um, so it's one of those things where you can read through the contract and if there's wording or if you want to add amendments, like I'll work with you on, [00:56:40] on making sure the contract is fair between both of us.

Speaker 3: Yeah. I just have a template that I'll send and once the contract is signed, there's a retainer fee, which is an advanced [00:56:50] payment that I take, uh, to cover expenses in the case of nonpayment. Um, once the retainer fee is, um, paid, contract is [00:57:00] signed, then I will generally start by requesting information from the client themselves.

Speaker 3: Right. I have a variety of templates depending on the [00:57:10] assignment. Right. But I need to know everything, you know, so that I'm not starting at a spot and finding information You already know. Yeah, yeah. And spending your money doing that. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Right. So the more you [00:57:20] withhold from me, the more likely it is I'm going to waste your money.

Speaker 3: Um, and people get a little nervous about this because I'm technically a stranger. Um, and [00:57:30] people, you know, sometimes, not necessarily in this bidding situation, but people wanna hold back a little bit because they're worried about, you know, giving [00:57:40] information to private investigators about themselves or their family.

Speaker 3: And I understand that entirely. Uh, but it is also something I like to say is, you know, like I've seen it [00:57:50] before, um, and there's a reason why you've can't go online and find a single instance of me sharing information [00:58:00] about a client, right? This is the entire structure of my business is designed to provide clients discretion.

Speaker 3: Uh, and the fact that [00:58:10] the information, once I have it stays with me no one else. Mm-hmm. Um, unless I, you know, you've requested me to share it with your lawyer or your brother or whatever. Yeah. [00:58:20] Um, so, you know, I always encourage clients to be like, just tell me everything that you think is relevant. I'm gonna ask questions.

Speaker 3: You don't have to answer them.

Stefen: Yeah.

Speaker 3: But if it's [00:58:30] helpful for me and it's helpful for the file, and you don't want me to accidentally waste some your money, it's best you just tell me upfront rather than wait two weeks and [00:58:40] then tell me.

Stefen: Yeah.

Speaker 3: Right. And now some people, they wanna build that trust a little bit before they're willing to share these secrets.

Speaker 3: Um, which is, once again, I [00:58:50] understand entirely. Um, but if, once again, if I've done work that just covers what you already know, it's up to you. You know, like that's, you still have to pay for it. I apologize, [00:59:00] but,

Kyle: um, do you, do you start building your own database as well? Like, like let's say you did a whole bunch of investigation on someone two years ago.

Kyle: Do you keep that and, and, and then potentially use it [00:59:10] again because you know, you're. Investigating their neighbor now or something. And you now have like stuff that covers, or do you, what, what do you do after invest something's done? Do you destroy it or how [00:59:20]

Speaker 3: so? I, I have to keep it for at least one year.

Speaker 3: Okay. Um, and then, yeah, usually, you know, I'll dispose of it. Uh, it's not [00:59:30] always necessary to maintain like a, like I don't have a database of clients and their information at all. Um, it's, you know, if another client [00:59:40] shows up and I'm like, oh, you know, they're next door neighbors to this other client I had, I wish I would've saved it.

Speaker 3: But it also protects that former client by [00:59:50] destroying it so that I'm not using that information

Kyle: against them or whatever

Speaker 3: without their permission. Right. Yeah. So it's, you know, I have to keep it for a year. I think it's a year. I'll [01:00:00] have to double check on that. Okay. But for insurance purposes, investigate that.

Speaker 3: Now, my reports I keep, right. I have to keep these because you never know when, um, [01:00:10] right. Suddenly they're in a lawsuit six years down the road and they're like, Hey, you know, I've lost the report. Where is it?

Kyle: Yeah.

Speaker 3: Um, now you have to testify, you know, and I don't [01:00:20] have what the work I did six years ago, so my reports I keep, but like the information packages that are sent back and forth, those disappear.

Speaker 3: Do

Kyle: you have goals for where you wanna take the business? Like, is that, like, [01:00:30] what's the private investigator world like? Do you want to be in spot in five years where you have 10 people working for you? Or like, do you like being the size you're now? Like how does, how do you figure that? Yeah,

Speaker 3: so scaling [01:00:40] a private investigative company is, is difficult for sure without, um, major contracts with businesses, right?

Speaker 3: So [01:00:50] essentially for me to expand the business, I would have to clone myself, right? But if I clone myself, that person would just start their own company. So. Um, yeah, [01:01:00] eventually, I think three years from now, I would like to have some sort of specialized product that I can teach somebody to do at least most of the [01:01:10] work.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Under my direction. Um, something that is, you know, needed by society that has value to society, um, and then start scaling [01:01:20] that to a certain degree. Um, but you have to find certain areas where you can market that particular surface, [01:01:30] expend some capital, training somebody to do the bulk of the work, um, under my direction, and then just make sure the final product is good.

Kyle: Yeah.

Speaker 3: [01:01:40] Before you deliver it to your client. Now I haven't quite found that yet. Um, but I'm also in my first, this is my second year of business. Yeah. Um, working for [01:01:50] yourself. Working for myself. Yeah. So there are. Certain assignments that are becoming easier to me, um, in, in terms of [01:02:00] getting the results quickly, turning those over quite fast.

Speaker 3: Whereas I would say the first three months, it was a little bit of a learning curve.

Kyle: Yeah.

Speaker 3: Right. Every client is different. Every [01:02:10] skip trace is different. Every missing person is different. Um, so, but now I'm getting missing person. So you'll find, try to

Kyle: find people that are missing

Speaker 3: too Occasionally. Yes.

Speaker 3: Not as [01:02:20] common as a skip trace. Um, skip trace. Skip trace is when somebody is, has, let's say you're involved with a lawsuit and the [01:02:30] client says, once again, that person borrowed a hundred thousand dollars to me and they didn't pay me back. And the person that lent like took the money and didn't pay it back is like, well, if he doesn't find [01:02:40] me then I can never be brought to court and never, my wages will never be granted papers, whatever.

Speaker 3: Right. So it's finding the person so you can serve papers. Yeah. That's a skip [01:02:50] trace. Um, which is something we do quite a bit of.

Stefen: Hmm.

Speaker 3: Um. Sorry, where were we?

Kyle: I think that was it.

Speaker 3: Okay.

Kyle: Yeah. [01:03:00] Okay. So, uh, if people wanna hire you, where do they go? What, what's your website? How do they contact you?

Speaker 3: Yeah, so my phone number is (604) 817-5685.

Speaker 3: The website [01:03:10] is sterling Oak investigations.com. We are, uh, located in Vancouver as a primary office. Um, but we work [01:03:20] all over BC anywhere really in the world, um, provided the work is done here in bc.

Kyle: Yeah.

Speaker 3: And, um, yeah, the, we have a list of all of [01:03:30] our services on the website. Primarily we do any, we, my primary specialty is solving problems, [01:03:40] finding people, and solving problems.

Speaker 3: A lot of people will come to me with very weird, non-specific problems [01:03:50] where information is needed to solve it or resolve it. Or at least help them just understand what is happening. Um, and this is sort of where my specialty [01:04:00] is, the understanding of how to get that information and work with you to solve your problem, whatever it may be.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.

Kyle: Well, it was a great chatting [01:04:10] with you, having you on. If anybody you guys are interested in working with Stephan, um, yeah. Reach out to him, um, make some more money or find some more people, whatever it is. Um, I'll [01:04:20] catch you guys next time. Thanks for listening.

Speaker 3: Thank you.

Kyle: That's it.

Stefen: Very straightforward or [01:04:30] what?

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Is the Christian School Bubble Hurting Our Kids’ Faith? - Briefcase & The Barn - Ep 72

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