He Sold the Dairy Farm to Follow God – Mike’s Story of Surrender - EP 41

November 29, 2025

KYLE: [00:00:00] [00:00:10] Okay, welcome back to their episode of the Furious Securus Show. Um, good to have you here. You can see my new [00:00:20] studio's in progress. Um, have this desk for four people coming soon. So today I got Mike Fetra here. He's a friend of mine. Um, Gary put me in touch with [00:00:30] him like a year and a half ago, and, uh, we've been going for coffee every.

KYLE: Month, roughly, probably since then. He's my Freedom Session sponsor. Um, just [00:00:40] enjoy spending time with him. So I thought, Hey, come on the podcast, share what you do and, and we can just have a chat. So thanks for being there.

MIKE: Well, you're welcome [00:00:50] and I'm still surprised you ask me, but I'll share whatever I can.

KYLE: There you go. Okay. So you, who do you work for right now? You work for a few different [00:01:00] charity organizations, correct? Yeah, I work for. Where do you want me to look? Just let me,

MIKE: okay, we're we're just

KYLE: having a

MIKE: chat. Yeah. I work for, uh, power to Change and Power to [00:01:10] Change. It's a ministry. All they do is they find ways of sharing the gospel.

Speaker 3: Okay.

MIKE: So we use different venues like sports, working university campuses. We [00:01:20] drill water wells to be able to plant churches. And so everything is, how do we get the word of God in these places? Where not everybody is going to the church. [00:01:30]

KYLE: Yeah. You can keep talking that better. Yeah, it's good. Okay. And, and, um, how long has power to [00:01:40] change been around?

KYLE: Like, who, who started it and how is it run?

MIKE: It, uh, used to be called Campus Crusades for Christ. Okay. And that became an issue at university campuses. So [00:01:50] Canada changed the name. Or the, yeah, the brands of the Canadians, they changed to power chains since we had had a, um, there was an [00:02:00] outreach called Power Chains by, they used people's testimonies.

MIKE: And so we had that, uh, um, we had a name and so that's why it [00:02:10] got changed. It was Dr. Bright. He was a business guy in the States who, uh, at 51. Uh, God [00:02:20] prompted him. He was in a, uh, he was in a Sunday school class and he was challenged to give his life to the Lord. So basically him and his wife Annette, [00:02:30] they said, God, you fill in the check, we'll sign it.

MIKE: And so they committed all of the life to find venues of sharing the gospel.

KYLE: Okay. [00:02:40] And then at 51, he started power to change. But before that, he was already doing that. He was a, yeah,

MIKE: he was a businessman. Uh. He be, I'm not sure when he [00:02:50] became a believer. He was not a believer at first. So, uh, there was a point where he chose to follow Jesus.

MIKE: Okay. And he realized he had to, but you said in Sunday school [00:03:00] there was, yeah. He was going to a Sunday school in California.

KYLE: Okay. I. Not as like a kid then, like a, like a bible school, some sort at a, uh, as an adult. Oh, okay. Yep. [00:03:10] Okay.

MIKE: Interesting.

KYLE: Okay. And how did

MIKE: you get into it? Well, I didn't look for it. I, uh, used to dairy farm.

MIKE: Yeah. [00:03:20] I loved dairy farming and that used to be my dream. Uh, but it always said that everything I own is gones. So, uh, likely about, I would [00:03:30] think about 30 some years ago. Uh, we got an invite to Open House of Campus Crusade that was still called that. And, uh, I remember [00:03:40] saying to Anne, uh, you know what, you got no time.

MIKE: Like I always had something to fix or something to do. And, uh, we had young children and Anne said, you know, the [00:03:50] kids will hear enough negative stuff. They need to hear some of the stories God is doing. And so, uh, anyways, after having a bad attitude for day, I, I [00:04:00] agreed to, um. To go. And they said, well, I don't wanna waste a whole day.

MIKE: So as long as we're back by the afternoon. And so [00:04:10] we went to the open house and then, uh, the president of Campus Crusade Canada, Marvin Kaler, um, as we're talking, and he used to be a chicken farmer. He said, [00:04:20] uh, why didn't you sell your farm co work, come and work for us? And I look at him and I go like, really?

MIKE: And he's quite a bit shorter than me. I thought, man, what an [00:04:30] ignorant thing to say. So my comeback was, uh, you know what's involved is selling a dairy farm. And his answer was, you [00:04:40] believe God is big enough? And at that moment I actually looked at my hands and I realized there's nothing, absolutely nothing I can hang on to.

MIKE: So then we wrestled through that [00:04:50] for a couple of years before we finally said, okay, we just need to go ahead.

KYLE: Yeah. Was it hard to lose your dream?

MIKE: Yeah. You know what? I'm [00:05:00] thankful that God allowed us to farm. Uh, you know, we enjoyed it. We had a good time. Um, yeah. Uh, it was my dream and I'm thankful that, [00:05:10] that we could do it.

MIKE: Hmm. Not everybody had the opportunity.

KYLE: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So 30 years ago already you sold your farm and went to go work for Power to change. Yep. Okay. So you've been doing this, you've been at this [00:05:20] for a while.

MIKE: Yep.

KYLE: Okay. And what's your role been since you started there? Like what did you do initially and are you doing the same thing now or what are, what are you responsible for?

MIKE: Well, when we came we said, [00:05:30] I want nothing to do with fundraising. Okay. I want absolutely nothing to do with that. And so why not? You know, just for something, but just like, I don't want [00:05:40] nothing to do with it. Like, that's not me. Feels gross asking for money. Yep. And so then we, uh, when I got there, then, uh, Marvin said to me, he said, you know, why don't [00:05:50] you go around?

MIKE: Meet with people and let people know what's happening in the ministry. And I remember responding to him. You mean kind of like fundraising [00:06:00] and he kind of smiled a little bit. And, uh, so anyways, I've been doing that ever since, but I realized it's not about fundraising.

Speaker 4: Hmm.

MIKE: It's actually about, uh, challenging [00:06:10] people with opportunities to invest part of their life and their business ultimately so that people can hear about Jesus.

MIKE: Hmm. So it's not even about how [00:06:20] do we get funds, because the Bible is very clear. It says all the silver and gold is mine. So. People have to [00:06:30] respond to God's call. And my way has been, I let people know about the ministry and I don't make any suggestions how [00:06:40] much, and, uh, just allow people to choose for themself if they want to get involved.

KYLE: Hmm. And what have you learned about. Like, are you, how do you find the people [00:06:50] that might be potential sponsors? Like is it based on like what you think their net worth is? Or it might be a dumb question, but I'm just curious how, uh, how an organization [00:07:00] decides who to go. Like is it through like you're doing talks at different events or like how do you go find the people that might be sponsors or that already are sponsors?

MIKE: It's people, uh, some [00:07:10] people I know. Some cases I've just knocked on doors or walked in and businesses gave my business card. Yeah. And just developed a friendship over time and [00:07:20] that's how we got connected.

Speaker 3: Okay.

MIKE: You know, sometimes you walk into different scenarios. So one time on a Monday afternoon, all of my appointments [00:07:30] were canceled.

MIKE: And that's always a bit of a sinking feeling because what am I gonna do with my time? Hmm. And so I was on this road and I saw this beautiful home, quite a ways [00:07:40] off and, uh, pickup truck standing there. So me and my simple mind go like, well, likely the guy's home. It's pickup truck. And there was a dog sitting [00:07:50] in the back of the pickup truck, and this dark went ballistic when it drove up.

MIKE: And, uh, I didn't even know why. I just said, well, you know, shut up. Uh, I'm on God's [00:08:00] business, and I got some material and I got outta my car and I walked over to the house and, uh, and I was totally clueless. [00:08:10] So then I, uh, I met a house and, uh, it takes a bed before someone finally answers the door and, uh, wants to know who I [00:08:20] am and, uh, this and that.

MIKE: So I chat with him. And then a second person came around and he listened for a bit and then he said, how'd you get past the dog? [00:08:30] And I said, well, I'm on God's business. So I told the dog to shut up and then the first guy motioned the other one to leave. And then when I, uh, [00:08:40] um, got back to my car, I looked at the house and I go, really?

MIKE: Didn't I see that? And it was just a massive grow up.

Speaker 3: Oh. [00:08:50]

MIKE: So I'm sure these guys had a, they had a discussion of, you know, this guy tells a doc who was like, he supposed to keep everybody away from the door.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

MIKE: So, [00:09:00] so yeah, they've been, it's been an interesting journey.

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

MIKE: And you know, I hope to see. At least one or two of them guys in heaven.

MIKE: And if not, then [00:09:10] they had one more chance to respond as well.

Speaker 4: Hmm.

MIKE: Because you also find yourself sharing the gospel with a lot of these guys. Yes. Yes. That's one of my, uh, [00:09:20] that's one of the things I always try to do to, you know, what if we would get money for, from a person and we would never challenge them with the [00:09:30] gospel, and what if they would not get to heaven?

MIKE: So you can't assume that people are believers. So have they made that decision?

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

KYLE: And [00:09:40] why, why, why can't you assume that? Because I'm assuming a lot of these people that you're talking to are church going folk and, and you know, they're willing to give money and, and so

MIKE: Yeah, but it's [00:09:50] for different reasons.

MIKE: People give money sometimes it makes us feel good. And, uh, just because a person goes to church. That doesn't mean I've made that personal [00:10:00] commitment. I noticed from my own life,

KYLE: what have you, you're, you're dealing with people that, um, uh, are giving, giving money and, [00:10:10] and probably have some excess to varying degrees.

KYLE: Mm-hmm. What, what have you in the last 30 years noticed about people that have wealth? [00:10:20] Uh, like what are some of the common denominators that you see showing up?

MIKE: Uh, money is a funny thing. [00:10:30] It gives us a feeling of power, of being in control, of being very smart, and, and so people have different degrees and [00:10:40] we live in a, in, uh, quite a funny time because inflation has brought values up and that creates a lot of self-sufficiency.[00:10:50]

MIKE: So it's. Yeah. Everybody has to realize it's like the game of Monopoly. Uh, at the end of the game, it all goes in the box.[00:11:00]

KYLE: And the self-sufficiency causes What kind of problems? Because self-sufficiency is a human problem. But you're, you're [00:11:10] saying it shows up more because of the wealth.

MIKE: Yeah. Well, you know, then now we wanna have a cabin, or we want to go here. We want to go there. We've worked hard. We [00:11:20] deserve all that. So just because we get more, that doesn't mean people get more excited about, you know what, maybe we could reach another million people with the [00:11:30] gospel.

MIKE: Hmm.

KYLE: Hmm. What, what else do you, do? You, do you see like, because this is, you're dealing with affluent Christianity, right? [00:11:40] When majority of Christianity, I'd say in the world isn't affluent, or at least in the history of Christianity, uh, we haven't, Christians haven't been affluent. Uh, and so now there's a lot of money in the [00:11:50] church.

KYLE: Um. As a whole, I would say, like I, I remember being in, uh, Africa when I was 21 and I bef before I left, I was quite insecure, but the [00:12:00] fact I had an old Chevy Cavalier. Um, and then I was in that city in Cory Guinea for, uh, a month and it's 2 million people. And I think I was like a one stoplight and my [00:12:10] car would've been the nicest.

KYLE: Yep. So I realized, okay, well wealth is really re relevant, right? Mm-hmm. Like if you're making over, you know, 70, 80 grand a year, you're, you're, [00:12:20] um. Maybe not with infl inflation now, but you're doing pretty well. But that the, the, the American church as a whole, it's affluent, it's self-reliant. [00:12:30] We've talked about it before, but what do you, what problems do you think that causes?

KYLE: Like what do you see as some of the, the challenges that's the church is facing because of it? [00:12:40]

MIKE: Um, I was at a prayer meeting this morning and uh, we always go, I go Thursday mornings and, uh, you know, to actually realize. [00:12:50] Many of us don't share the gospel on a daily basis. So do we actually talk about Jesus or is it what I have?

MIKE: Do I talk [00:13:00] about that? And so as a church, like are we passionate? Do we, are we excited when we hear stories of lives being changed [00:13:10] or it is totally disconnected? And I think that's, well, I know it is different from person to person, so it was my focus. [00:13:20] Am I willing to share the gospel? Am I willing to have a track along to be able to leave behind for a person and [00:13:30] to, uh, give them the opportunity to actually engage in a conversation about God?

KYLE: Hmm. And you think that's not there as much because of the wealth [00:13:40] we live in, or you think that's other, other reasons?

MIKE: Well, a lot of churches, a lot of people believe, as long as I go to church and I help. The job is for the pastors, [00:13:50] but the gospel is very clear. It tells us, go out and make disciples. So it's not the programs, it's the programs are supposed to help us when people [00:14:00] are interested to say, why don't you come along?

KYLE: Yeah. And is it something that you remember being convicted of as well? Where you, where you realized you weren't doing these things and like what and, and [00:14:10] if, if that and I didn't know

MIKE: how. Okay. I had no clue. Like I did not know how. So we had a old friend in magazine, uh, he's long since passed away. [00:14:20] Uh, he was in his eighties.

MIKE: And, uh, we'd visit him and we'd talk about God. And um, one time I got a call from his wife, can [00:14:30] you please come record something? And so I did. And, um, little cassette player, we were still on a dairy farm. And [00:14:40] uh, I nodded to George when he could speak and he goes, Gladys, I love you.

MIKE: That was it. And I, I'm motioning, [00:14:50] please, you know, say more. He said, that's all I want to tell her. Said, why don't you tell her now? He said, no, and don't your dad give it to her until I'm gone. So, um, [00:15:00] uh, she was really happy once he got a tape. But then about six days later I was called, uh, five 30 in the morning.

MIKE: [00:15:10] Uh, I was in a milk compiler and, uh, Gladys called, can you please come now? So, well, I'm milking cow. So I asked my wife and if she would [00:15:20] be able to take over. She actually had to come outta bed, yet she always slept a bit longer in the morning. And, uh, so she took over and I went down there and George [00:15:30] was laying in bed with eyes wide open and full of fear.

MIKE: He said last night he was being sucked in this huge big black hole. I don't wanna [00:15:40] go there. And I didn't even know how to do it. Proper gospel presentation. I knew at that moment I'll never take the man to church. I'll never get him into a Bible study. [00:15:50] And uh, 'cause he was gonna die. Yeah. And we, uh, we are able to pray.

MIKE: And then, um, three hours later he was in coma. And four or five days later, [00:16:00] he passed away and I realized at that moment, been 40 some years going to church and I'd never been able to share with somebody clearly.

KYLE: How is that possible [00:16:10] after going to church for 40 years that you didn't know how, like it's, it's super common.

KYLE: And so I kind of have some thoughts myself, but like, just in your own experience and [00:16:20] as you look around, how, well, how is, how is that happening? Like we are, how are, there's churches everywhere here, you know, but very few people know how to share the gospel or [00:16:30] articulate it

MIKE: well, when I grew up, we went to church and always twice on a Sunday.

MIKE: Um. We listened to [00:16:40] someone speak, but it was never anything which was personalized. We wouldn't have a challenge to make a personal commitment, and we were never challenged. This is [00:16:50] how you could share with someone else, share with someone else what God has done in your life. So it was always, uh, it became part of our social life, [00:17:00] but really didn't mean anything until God got ahold of my life.

Speaker 4: Hmm.

MIKE: How did God get ahold of yours? You know, when I moved to Canada, I think it was one of the reasons [00:17:10] God brought me here. And, uh, how old were you? Uh, I was 21. Finished my stint in the Air Force and my schooling. And [00:17:20] so yeah, got here and, you know, all of a sudden you asked some questions, you know, kind of why, you know, what's the purpose?

MIKE: Why am I here? Why did I have the opportunity? [00:17:30] Uh, some people didn't and then I listened to some of the. Uh, television preachers and, and, uh, you know, some can, can [00:17:40] become a bit confusing as well. But

KYLE: yeah,

MIKE: God found a way of really challenging me and, uh, at that moment I said, yeah, it, [00:17:50] it has to be all about God Had no clue yet what it was gonna look like.

KYLE: Hmm. And when did you see Christ as like your [00:18:00] personal savior, where he was, what your life was when he was, became the center of it.

MIKE: Yeah. And that took a while too, because for a [00:18:10] while, uh, you're so ingrained in just doing good stuff and try to be the good person and to realize it's got nothing to do with that.

MIKE: So there was a process God took me [00:18:20] through, and then when it looked like all the ducks were in the row. I was living the dream. God said, so are you willing to give it up?

KYLE: Hmm. [00:18:30] Do you, um, how do you challenge people to that, to being, being willing to give [00:18:40] things up or not? Uh, yeah.

MIKE: Yeah. I, I challenge people to say, so have you ever prayed to say, God, how do you want me, how do you want to use my [00:18:50] life?

MIKE: Uh, how could I be part of it? Then if God lays upon your heart to reads a million people, then maybe start looking at different ministries and say, [00:19:00] I could, you know, do it through them or do it through them, and then maybe look at it now, how do I run a business to support that? [00:19:10] So instead of at the end of the year two, give God what I've got left to say.

MIKE: Maybe I need to start in the beginning and say, God. [00:19:20] If you want me to be involved with this, this thing is gonna cost so much a month. How do I find ways of,

KYLE: Hmm. Because you're [00:19:30] not suggesting that everyone should sell everything. No, not at all. But asking God, what do you, uh, what do you want me to do? [00:19:40] Yeah.

KYLE: And so you don't think that, that's a question a lot of Christians ask. God, I'm not sure. Oh.

MIKE: I challenge people to ask that question.

Speaker 4: Hmm. [00:19:50]

KYLE: Hmm. Do you see, where do you see like, uh, I read a quote the other day by Tim Keller and it said, we are most. Um, defensive of the [00:20:00] sin that we are closest to, something along those lines.

KYLE: Um, the sin that is, you know, affecting us, the, the most, that's where they're most offensive. Where do [00:20:10] you see the most defensiveness showing up when you're challenging people or where are people not letting you most often get close [00:20:20] or, or are pushing back at your. Cha challenges?

MIKE: Well, I know there's lots of people, uh, asking for funds for different, uh, [00:20:30] good causes.

MIKE: And so many people, they'll, they'll see me and they, their thing is, you know, you wanna ask for funds. People have [00:20:40] accused me of asking for funds and I've never asked them, but just my presence and giving them some material, uh, you know, comes to a point of [00:20:50] they become defensive.

Speaker 4: Okay.

MIKE: And, and you know, you realize it is, it's, uh, everybody's gonna be [00:21:00] held accountable for what God and trust us with.

MIKE: And so it's the same with their funds, uh, or time, whatever. So it's my time [00:21:10] ultimately translated into souls for eternity, or is my time all about me and my estate or what I have or. [00:21:20] Acuate. Yeah. And, and there's nothing illegal about that. You know, like we live in a world where, you know, we can do that, [00:21:30] but I've, I've thought many times, uh, a Fortune 500 magazine, when you look at this world.

MIKE: You realize a lot of [00:21:40] these people, their life has become a mess because of just trying to get more go money. Have you ever thought of what a Fortune [00:21:50] 500 magazine would look like in heaven? Who would be the people on it? Who do you think would be on it? Well, you know, the person [00:22:00] who's been good to the family looks after the family, might not have any wealth, but the person who's living a life.

MIKE: To under God. Hmm hmm. See, Satan [00:22:10] was very crafty when he showed Jesus, uh, all the wealth of the world. And he said, bow to me. I'll give you all this. And as [00:22:20] humans, we have a tendency to bow to death.

KYLE: Yeah. How do we protect

MIKE: ourselves from bowing to it? Uh, basically stay [00:22:30] in the word of God. You see Solomon, the wealthiest man in the world.

MIKE: When, when Moses told the ster lights, [00:22:40] when you get a king, not if you get a king, but when you get a king, tell him to not go to Egypt, to not accumulate wealth, to not marry women from, [00:22:50] uh, other cultures and countries and to follow the law and carried the law with you on a daily basis. So you read it daily.[00:23:00]

MIKE: And Solomon, in all of his wisdom. Did all these things. So it'd be very easy for us to make these [00:23:10] mistakes. Yeah. So are we daily in the word of God and is our focus to follow God wherever we are?

KYLE: It's funny 'cause sometimes we think we're pretty [00:23:20] smart than we would admit that Solomon is definitely smarter.

KYLE: Uh, but then he's still dumb enough. Yeah. To go against all these, these [00:23:30] things

MIKE: and you know, are we willing to ask off for wisdom? Hmm. You know, when, when, uh, um, Daniel talked to the king, [00:23:40] he prayed for wisdom. So when we get into situations, are we willing to ask God for wisdom to not take it in our own hands?

MIKE: [00:23:50] Yeah. And I, I fall short on that. Definitely.

KYLE: When you say staying in the word, what does that look like for you? How did you learn to read the Bible? Do you, and how do you do it [00:24:00] now? Do you spend, how much time do you spend? What do you read, and what would you recommend to someone that hasn't really spent any time reading the Bible?

KYLE: It might be in church, might not be. And how, how would they start? [00:24:10]

MIKE: Uh, I used to love reading devotionals and about 25 years ago, I finished another devotional and I'm looking around for [00:24:20] what the next thing would be. I would read and I couldn't find anything. And it's like, God channels me. Go and read the word of God and you realize it's the living word [00:24:30] because from time to time you discover new things.

MIKE: So since then, I read to the Bible and start all over again. And so actually during COVID, [00:24:40] uh, I would sit in my exercise bike and read the Bible and were, I would go through once a month from beginning to end. To just read through the [00:24:50] Bible, and yes, it's a lot of information, but it's actually fascinating as you keep seeing things and you go like, wow, I never saw that.

KYLE: Yeah.

MIKE: Like [00:25:00] Zach and I and Elizabeth, they're mentioned as old. How old do you think they are? Measure? Sure. Well take a guess. A hundred. Okay. I always thought it would be upper [00:25:10] eighties. But when you read Deuteronomy, you realize a priest could not serve in a temple if he was 50 or older and he was [00:25:20] serving in a temple, so they were likely upper forties.

MIKE: Ah, interesting. And, and so, so you read that And so one time I was reading through it, I'd gone through the [00:25:30] old Testament, went right back to the New Testament, and I come across that. How come we never saw this? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So God has ways of revealing things to us.

KYLE: Yeah, [00:25:40] staying persistent too. I mean, the first time you read a manual to build an IKEA desk, I don't understand anything either.

KYLE: Well, I have the habit of just building it and then there, there you go. [00:25:50] But yeah, persistence takes time. Okay. And what about someone that's just starting off? 'cause I'm assuming someone started, you wouldn't recommend someone starting off to read the Bible in a month? Uh,

MIKE: no. No. Just start reading. [00:26:00] Uh, you know.

MIKE: Set aside 10 minutes, 15 minutes today, and start with the Gospel of John and then keep asking God, okay, God, [00:26:10] show me. What do you wanna teach me today?

KYLE: Do you, um, see a lot of, or I see a lot [00:26:20] of fear in the church. We're we're, we're scared of. The economy crashing, scared of the government taking our rights away. We're scared of [00:26:30] the, the whole leftist movement when it comes to abortion or life or marriage like that. Um, there's just, I see a lot of. [00:26:40] Fear of each other that we're not good enough.

KYLE: Um, and it's, I I feel there's a level of irony to it because God says so often in his word to fear not absolutely. And, [00:26:50] and to trust, trust him. Uh, so my question is, do you see that a lot of that fear in, in the church today? Um, and, [00:27:00] and how do we combat that? Like, why, why is that there? How do we fight that?

MIKE: Um, for me it's become, you know, am I focused on the finish [00:27:10] line? Someday I'll stand before God. And so, uh, if you look at what God promises in the Bible, you say, [00:27:20] wow, that's actually amazing. But God also talks in the Bible that will be chaos. There's gonna be a, a one world currency. These things are gonna happen and [00:27:30] I'll be trying to stop it.

MIKE: I was saying, okay, God, show me what I need to do next. We had an interesting experience, uh, not too long ago. So [00:27:40] our grandson and a buddy were gonna come and shoot pellet guns in the backyard. The friend's mom had come along. She was, uh. Asian a bit more [00:27:50] protective. And uh, but once she saw how her son set him up, she was quite happy and she was gonna leave and she has a company to help people to downsize.[00:28:00]

MIKE: So they go from 4,000 square foot home to 1500. And, uh, then somehow she asked us, she said, so why do you think it's so hard on people? [00:28:10] Because she has a whole team of people help helping her do that. And, uh, you realize why, why,

KYLE: what's so hard on people,

MIKE: uh, to downsize. Okay. So [00:28:20] you realize sometimes the Holy Spirit just prompts you.

MIKE: When I, I said, well, because nobody deals with eternity. And she said, well, what do you mean? I said, well, you go [00:28:30] 4,000, you go 1500, you go 400, you go to a box. And the moment we're in a box, that means you've gone through the door from the here and out to the hereafter. [00:28:40] And, uh, she literally got when I set the box, but a lot of people, we are not focused on that.

MIKE: You know, we're, and then realizing by that [00:28:50] moment we started downsize to when we go in the box, it's usually less than 10 years, so I'll be finished on finishing and is [00:29:00] my focus to be with God. To use all of my talents right up to that moment. Okay. So

KYLE: you, um, [00:29:10] think that to combat fear, we should be thinking about death in the finish line more.

MIKE: Well, you've run races. Your kids like you will be in races and [00:29:20] so what do you do? You cheer 'em on to finish. Well, come on Peter, you can do it. Just go, go, go.

KYLE: Yeah.

MIKE: So I'll be living life that way because the Bible is very [00:29:30] clearly talks about running a race.

KYLE: Hmm. And so I don't, he, I don't see or hear a lot of that in church.

KYLE: Now, maybe I'm not talking to [00:29:40] enough people in, inside the church and to enough Christians, but would you agree with that? Like, why is there so much apathy? Why? I don't see a lot of people that are, I see a lot of fear. I don't see a lot of people like, [00:29:50] let's go, the finish line is coming. We're gonna be dying soon.

KYLE: Like, you know, and, and, and driving towards that. Is that just because this church is full of Unbel uh, [00:30:00] um, um, Christians that are struggling, 'cause Christians are sinners, is that, do you think the church is more unhealthy than it should be? Is it wealth? Do you have any, any [00:30:10] thoughts?

MIKE: You know what it's individually like, are we, uh, is our focus on God or is it not?

MIKE: Bible also talks about encourage one [00:30:20] another, especially as you see today approaching. And so are we encouraging one another and are we keep helping remind one another that you know [00:30:30] what the time is gonna come. At this point, I'm, uh, way older than my mom was when she passed away, and, uh, quite a bit older than my dad.

MIKE: And so [00:30:40] you realize, humanly speaking, there's no longevity. But whatever time I have, uh, is it all about God. [00:30:50] And you know, we all realize we. We'll be held accountable for our finances. But not everybody has finances, but everybody gets [00:31:00] 24 hours in a day. So how is my time spent?

Speaker 4: Hmm.

MIKE: And the culture goes against that.

MIKE: You, uh, you know, three 40 years ago the [00:31:10] saying became well known, freedom 55. So you work till 55 and then you can do whatever you wanna do. And, uh, but you know, God [00:31:20] talks about there's gonna be accountability. So can he help one another to cheer one another on and to be there for one another?

Speaker 4: Hmm. [00:31:30]

KYLE: Uh, I think there are, um, one of the ways we can also combat the feelings of, [00:31:40] um, Christianity being boring.

KYLE: Or it not being like, worth following. Like there's just like, there's very little, uh, excitement that seems to be attached to it, even [00:31:50] though it is the, the best thing in the world. Of course, Satan is trying to give us those lies, that it's, you know, boring and, and not good for us. But what in your own faith and, and [00:32:00] walk, what is.

KYLE: What makes Christianity the best? Like what makes it, because it's a desirous thing, right? Like, it's like you're, you're choosing [00:32:10] to follow that with your whole heart. Like it's something you desire because you see the beauty of Christ, or you see the beauty of X, Y, Z. Like what I. And I think that when we're evangelizing or we're [00:32:20] talking to people to pursue, it's not just we should, God is watching, but also it's better than everything else.

KYLE: So, which

MIKE: other [00:32:30] lifestyle or religion offers? Hope not. Another one. Okay. So there you go. We actually can offer people hope and we live in a world with all the despair [00:32:40] and worry, and you realize everybody's looking for hope. So was our purpose to make sure. We share with people so they can

Speaker 4: Hmm [00:32:50]

KYLE: hmm. If you're talking to an average 30, 30 5-year-old guy, what do you, what are some of the questions you start with [00:33:00] asking him?

KYLE: Like what, how do you check in with people where they're at? I,

MIKE: uh, you know, find out about them, their family, uh, find out about, so what's their [00:33:10] goal? Like, what do they want to get accomplished? And, you know, then also remind them that. But on behalf here, we're gonna leave behind. [00:33:20] And you and I know just because you have a bigger home or you have this or that doesn't mean anything.

MIKE: It's all gonna stay behind. So is [00:33:30] my true focus to follow Jesus.

KYLE: Do you think much about legacy? Your legacy? Or how do you wanna be remembered? [00:33:40]

MIKE: You know what? I'm a singer saved by grace.

MIKE: That's the only thing that's gonna matter. You know, it's not, [00:33:50] uh, you know, I hope my kids will be able to say that someday that, uh, you know, that was a sinner saved by grace. Not about what he accomplished or what he [00:34:00] had or what he made.

KYLE: Yeah.

MIKE: You know, is, is a legacy. So we're gonna have a name somewhere on the, uh, street, or we have a name on a building [00:34:10] or is a legacy.

MIKE: You know what? Just like anybody else, uh, but sin saved by grace, but just one bag of telling the next one where [00:34:20] to find food.

KYLE: Hmm. Hmm. In my own experience as a Christian, when I, when I sin, or when I still notice sin in my life with whatever it [00:34:30] is, if it's in impatience with my kids or, you know, it can be a whole bunch of things, pride or whatever else like that, I can, it can get like they're downing or depressing.

KYLE: It's just like [00:34:40] I'm still fighting with this like. When I, when I'm gonna to kick this like, and just leave it and like not deal with it anymore. And it reminds me of a conversation you and I had about I think half a year ago where [00:34:50] you shared with me that you're like, I still struggle with sin. And I was just like, I was thinking about it later and I was like, ah, it's just, it's weird.

KYLE: Like he's way older and me and he's still struggling with sin. He is been at this for a long [00:35:00] time. So I'm curious when in your struggle with sin. How, how do you respond to it? Like, are you able to remind yourself of the gospel right away and not get down? Yeah. You [00:35:10] gotta

MIKE: turn, you gotta turn to, to God. Uh, you know, acknowledge it.

MIKE: Ask God to forgive us and keep short accounts with God. And, [00:35:20] uh,

KYLE: and with short accounts is like if you sin, just repent right away.

MIKE: Yeah. Yeah.

KYLE: And repentance to you is out, just praying out loud, confessing, turning away. Yeah. [00:35:30] Turning

MIKE: away. Turning away from it.

Speaker 4: Hmm.

MIKE: Yeah. And, and you know, or right till the end of our life, we will deal with that.

MIKE: Just because a person gets older, [00:35:40] uh, doesn't mean that's gonna be gone.

KYLE: Yeah. Uh, do you have,

MIKE: you struggle with assurance. You know, [00:35:50] when I start questioning myself and I go like, man, I'm really such a loser, and why would God care about me at times? But then the promises God made in [00:36:00] his word, I can actually, uh, accept them.

MIKE: Say, God, you said this, so are we willing to, [00:36:10] to, uh. Actually, I mean, we don't need that remind God, but to actually say to God, God, you said that I'm, and then [00:36:20] when we start to realize that, it's like our brain changes too. Yeah. So it's not a guilt anyway. More what loads us down. Yeah. Now it's like, you know [00:36:30] what?

MIKE: I've actually been forgiven for that.

KYLE: Yeah. Right. It actually reminds me of where you said earlier that Jesus was tempted by the devil. Mm-hmm. And he was then tempted on a few more things [00:36:40] every time he responded with scripture. Yep. Yep. He didn't respond with his own thoughts. Yep. Or whatever else like that.

KYLE: He responded with the Bible. Yeah. [00:36:50] What else would you say? Like, you've been around for a, uh, longer than I have. What? Like there's a, for the people listening that are. [00:37:00] Um, busy with families, you know, have kids are just in the throes of, of this life right now. Um, what, what would you be, what, [00:37:10] what would your encouragement be to them?

KYLE: Like some things to think about like that, that for their own peace and, and walk with God, but also for impact,

MIKE: you [00:37:20] know, on a daily basis. Uh, keep short accounts with God and keep asking the question, okay, God, uh, why have you got me here? How can I reflect you [00:37:30] better? Uh, it's not about our works, what we do, but it's ultimately our, is our life a testimony to what God has done.[00:37:40]

KYLE: Hmm. And how do you teach your kids? Well,

MIKE: these things, you know, you've gotta live it. If you want to teach your kids, you better live [00:37:50] it. Um, I mean, you could share with them, and which we do.

KYLE: Ultimately you gotta live it. [00:38:00] Give an example of what not living it would be and what living it would be like. Uh, I mean that's kind of, 'cause it's kind of cliche to say like, of course we have to live, practice what we preach.[00:38:10]

KYLE: Yeah. You know, that, that sort of thing. But what would be an example of, of living it out in a way that would really affect your Well, you

MIKE: know,

KYLE: if I have, if I

MIKE: am short with my wife [00:38:20] to be able to apologize. To ask her to forgive me, and am I willing to do that? [00:38:30] Sometimes you go, well, that's just the way I am.

MIKE: No, no, that's not how God wants you to be.[00:38:40]

KYLE: What else?

KYLE: In, in, in, in, in, um, fighting, fighting [00:38:50] sin.

MIKE: Uh, you know what I, I find I need to get into the word of God and God is ways of reminding me. [00:39:00] And sometimes I need to reflect and say, you know, is this really about God or is it all about Mike?

Speaker 4: Hmm.

MIKE: You know, whatever we do, we [00:39:10] can become very self-serving. That it's all about us.

KYLE: Yeah, yeah. Even in, uh, good things. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. [00:39:20] What about teaching your kids, uh, the, the Bible? Like, is it, would you, um, like how did you do it growing up? Like is it, is it. [00:39:30] Just battle stories is that, how do you teach 'em how to read, how do you teach 'em how to pray? Uh, a lot of that is, of course, modeling, but is there specific things that you, it's,

MIKE: [00:39:40] um, uh, I mean, I was blessed to grow up in a home where my dad would pray at each meal and he'd read a bible, a form prayer or like a, just a free prayer.

MIKE: [00:39:50] Um, bit more of a foreign prayer. Uh, but, you know, he prayed each time and they would read the Bible and, uh. I think every [00:40:00] little deposit God put in my life. And, uh, so we continued that. Um, I'm gonna pause that. It's gonna be too loud.[00:40:10]

MIKE: And so, uh, I know my wife was [00:40:20] actually very good at, at night when the kids would go to bed, uh, we would always read a story. Uh, we would, uh, question things. And, uh, [00:40:30] um, she was actually better that than I was. She would actually really spend time with the kids that she brought to bed. Uh, kids usually wanna talk at night because they don't wanna go to sleep, [00:40:40] and so, uh, it's always a good time to communicate.

MIKE: Uh. And, uh, even Deuteronomy, I believe, talks about it where it says, you know, train and the way you should go as you [00:40:50] walk along the way and as you lie down to sleep. And so to kind of make it a daily thing and then as you see things in nature to actually say, wow, [00:41:00] isn't that amazing how God made that? And there's many things right now, we have some bees.

MIKE: I got a couple beehives, and, uh, you realize these little creatures, how [00:41:10] God made them so uniquely. Uh, there's no way evolution could work. So there's many things in nature we can, uh, show our [00:41:20] families but also say, isn't it amazing how God made that?

KYLE: Yeah. Hmm. Switching subjects, uh, going back to church, how do you find a [00:41:30] good church and how do you know when you should leave the church you're in?

KYLE: Because I know you've switched from different denominations over the years. [00:41:40] Um, there's a lot of churches out there, a lot of churches teach. You can find churches that teach 'em really wacky things. Uh, you know, and there's everything in between and there's no perfect church. So how, how do you, [00:41:50] someone says to you, Mike, Hey, I, I need to find a church to go to, you know, it's a city that you're not aware, that you don't know anybody.

KYLE: Like, what would you Um, I would

MIKE: recommend just go to some churches. [00:42:00] Read the word of God, pray about it. And, uh, you will not find a perfect church. Well, if there's a perfect church, the moment you join, it's not perfect anymore. [00:42:10] So, uh, go, uh, find a place and keep asking yourself, am I growing? Am I walk with God?

MIKE: And if you [00:42:20] realize it just becomes motion or whatever, then you better, uh, look at your life and say, so what do I need to change? And sometimes you need to go through different shirts. [00:42:30] To even, uh, maybe a pastor can explain things better or whatever, and, uh, there's nothing wrong with that. But as long as you grow and you walk with God, [00:42:40]

KYLE: so you think, so you don't think that if you're in one church that you.

KYLE: Should stay there because that's where God put you or that's where God saved you. [00:42:50] Um, but let's say you get served saved in ex church, that, that, that doesn't mean that God says you should be there for life now and serve there. That there's, there's different seasons and there's different

MIKE: seasons and [00:43:00] also different pastors and churches that communicate differently.

MIKE: Yeah. So I don't see anything wrong about that. Uh, but you know, we have to keep in mind [00:43:10] that God c channels us to, to meet. And uh, then the Bible also says where two or three are gathered in my name, I am. Hmm. [00:43:20]

KYLE: Is accountability or having like weekly meetings with other believers, something that you've done, um, your whole life, or did you have seasons of that?

KYLE: [00:43:30] How important is that? Because it, it's easy to go to church and, you know, say, Hey, you know, how was the weather this week? How's work? But you can't really like, have a real conversation and so you need to [00:43:40] meet outside of Sunday morning. Is that, have you done that consistently or,

MIKE: uh, yes. Try to, yep.

MIKE: Sometimes more than other times. Right [00:43:50] now I'm Thursday mornings, I'm part of a prayer group, and usually Wednesday evenings or Thursday evenings we meet with some guy guys [00:44:00] and then we, you know, take a different topic, talk about that, or we listen to a good speaker.

KYLE: Yeah.

MIKE: And then discuss some of that. [00:44:10]

KYLE: And is that.

KYLE: Um, something you've always done. Was that something you started doing when you like, like when you were in your farming days, were you doing a then already? Because it's something I see like, [00:44:20] especially among men in, in church, it's very lonely. A lot of guys are not open with anybody. Uh, and they keep things inside.

KYLE: And, and the idea to meet, um, you know, [00:44:30] with a couple guys every week just is just a no no go zone. Um, why, why is it worth it? Why is it important? You

MIKE: know what I, for [00:44:40] me, I believe it goes back to, uh, encouragement. Uh, I know a lot of, uh, um, people who came by on the farm to [00:44:50] just sell stuff. Uh, a lot of the conversation ended up about God.

MIKE: And so, uh, is my life really about that? [00:45:00] And then when there's opportunities, uh, go meet with somebody. Find a way to be encouraged to [00:45:10] create that community. I know it's very easy to go through your week, work hard, you go to church, and my problem was because you always worked hard physically, [00:45:20] and if the pastor didn't get my attention right in the beginning, I would fall asleep.

MIKE: And so, um, am I being [00:45:30] challenged in my walk with God?

KYLE: Yeah.

MIKE: And, and I. I know what lands in, in our lap. Are we willing, we have, you know, we have time to go on a bike [00:45:40] ride, we have time to go golfing, stuff like that. So, uh, matter of priority it's a matter of priority. Is that my priority?

Speaker 3: Yeah. [00:45:50]

KYLE: Um, are there any topics specifically that you thought you would wanna talk about when you came on today?

KYLE: What? No, I wasn't even [00:46:00] realizing what I was in for. So fair, fair enough. Okay. I was gonna ask him more open-ended questions. Is there any, uh, bible book [00:46:10] that's most precious to you that's been most comforting?

MIKE: Uh, you know what? All of them have become very, uh, precious in a way as you read a Bible. It's been [00:46:20] fascinating.

MIKE: I, I realize all of the books, they have some real jewels in it. And, uh, I love going through the Old Testament, but I also love going through the New [00:46:30] Testament.

Speaker 4: Hmm.

MIKE: And then you have, uh, you know, books like James where it gives instructions on, on how to live and how to keep the tongue under control and [00:46:40] stuff like that to go Yeah.

MIKE: You know what, yeah, it's good. So, um,

KYLE: I would encourage people just, okay, so if you get stuck on an island and you can only bring [00:46:50] one book of the Bible with you, which are you taking?

MIKE: I, I, I wouldn't even know which one to pick.

Speaker 4: Okay.

MIKE: But I realized it was a while ago, I [00:47:00] thought about it. I thought, you know, even if God would just give you one book, that'd be plenty enough that he would keep working on you, that he would use that book.

Speaker 4: Hmm. [00:47:10]

KYLE: Any verses that are really precious to you that you have remembered over the years that are just

MIKE: specific Bible verses?

MIKE: John three [00:47:20] 16 is, is precious. Um, um, yeah, there's, there's been lots of verses in a way,

KYLE: but not one that like [00:47:30] super sticks out or that, you know, for, like for me, for example, Romans three is had a huge impact on, right? Right. Um, and so, but it's not necessarily, I guess, a favorite, but, well, at

MIKE: almost [00:47:40] 12, one and two, you know, uh, to live you life is a living sacrifice.

MIKE: Is, is that our purpose or not? Hmm. [00:47:50] And then you realize you're just working on that, like keep on.

KYLE: Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. Um, I don't have any more [00:48:00] specific questions, but I, uh, think you'll probably, I'll probably ask you to come back again, but you can join us with Gary. We could have some good discussions about um, things.

KYLE: But before you do that, would you [00:48:10] just share the gospel in your own words? What is the gospel? Uh, if someone came to you and said, Mike, share the gospel with me.

MIKE: Well, you [00:48:20] know, for people to know that God loves him, he made them uniquely the way they were. And then to realize that we have a big problem.

MIKE: It's [00:48:30] called sin. We all make mistakes, and because of that, a holy God and a central person, that doesn't work, but God in his providence [00:48:40] sent his son Jesus to take away that price. We're not punished, but we have to accept it personally. We have to make the decision. Do I [00:48:50] wanna follow Jesus? And, uh, you know, that's the shortest way.

MIKE: Uh, but that's the bottom line.

KYLE: [00:49:00] Thank you for sharing that. Would you close, um, and pray for the audience as well that heard this today.

MIKE: Father God, we, uh, come before you. We know you are God, we know that [00:49:10] you love us. We know that you've forgiven us. And Father, help us to continually be reminded that it is all about you and you only. [00:49:20] And Father, that you be all the glory.

MIKE: So I pray for all the people listening as well, that, uh, father, that you will use, uh, different things in their life [00:49:30] to draw them closer to you, and that the focus will be you and you only. So Lord to you, be all the glory. Thank you for forgiving us. Pray us in Jesus' name, [00:49:40] amen. Amen. Thanks for listening guys.

MIKE: I'll catch you on the next one.

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Inside the Mind of a Private Investigator: Fraud, Affairs, and Politicians | Steffan Moens | EP 42

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